35.5.3 changes to Dante

[iSiawPrime]

“We are not trying to make the first 5 days of Dante the best and only good days”

-Rebecca Ford

 

Revert the Tragedy nerf

[Neightrix]

Not since the ludicrous World on Fire rework have I been so disappointed. What's the point of building his 4 out to 70m if there's a LoS check?? It would be better to nerf the actual range than to make it fail at the seemingly intended range.

[Kuwagata]

With all respect, but this was one of the dumbest "fixes" ever made. We have a grame with literally two ways of dealing xonsistent damage, so you go to kill the most efficient bc apparently fun isn't allowed, except if you main Saryn, Octavia and so on. 

I wish I could have my money and time back.

[drewkenshin]

From fun to play to MR fodder. Well done, DE! Well done....

[captn_Pat]

So after gutting him in a kneejerk reaction, ehm excuse me "slight adjustments" could you refund me all the resources i put into him, like the 5 formas and plat for reactor, exilus mod slot? That killed my enjoyment right there to play for a while, maybe next time dont nuke from orbit and consider a more nuanced approach to balance. I have been waiting years that you make for example ash more fun but his 4 is still dogS#&$ (way too slow, no fun at all) and you ruin a perfectly fine frame in days. This was just awful, revert that garbage.

[Hejirah-Umbra]

Seriously DE?

Why can't we have fun?

[TheBlackAce21]

39 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

Ok but the majority just wants to have fun and turn there brains off, its bad enough the game is nothing but a grind fest but now you add something genuinely din and it's gets torched

Best counter argument I've honestly seen on any of my posts....I can see it I guess >.>

[Arkisa]

There are tons of Frames in Warframe able to nuke low-level enemies with the right build. But only 2 can do it effectively on higher levels. Why can't we have a third relevant Nuke-Frame for mid-level (like ESO) besides Saryn and Mirage? Before the nerf Dante wasn't stronger than both of them i would say. He was just new, different and fun to play. Of course people are playing him excessively during the first weeks after release because of this, but this is quite normal when a Frame and his abilities are designed well.

I would sugggest to revert the nerf of Tragedy and maybe nerf Dark Verse instead. So Dante will be less powerful, still have some nuking potential for low- and mid-level but also will keep his synergy wit frames that apply status effects. And synergies between Frames/Players is what Warframe badly needs!

[Lekranom]

I mean I don't even care about the nerfs. I am sad but whatever, just give me back all the forma, potato and exilus I invested into him.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Why did they even bother giving him custom animations and all, he's just another 0.% usage fodder now.

Thanks for wasting my time and money

Refunds? 

[Technolitch]

I came to Warframe after the Diablo 4 debacle with their nerfs that have never recovered.

good to see the poor decisions are an industry thing. All you had to do was not be blizzard and I’d have kept spending money. Will not be buying another thing from this company.

I never comment on this stuff. Didn’t even make a post when Blizzard bungled their game. I like my privacy.

I don’t know why this bothers me so much. Would like a refund for the Dante pack and tennocon ticket but I know that will never happen.

 

[Waeleto]

Overguard suggestion:

Light verse: keep the new number as 250
Triumph: make it 4000 on dante and 2000 on allies with the overguard regen having full value on dante and halved on allies

 

[sh0shin]

I apologize in advance for the volume of this post. But it'll be shorter than the update notes at least?

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TL;DR: REALLY GOOD JOB this Warframe is amazing. I think Dante would be a bit more interesting to play with fewer defensive capabilities "for free."

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Alright I finally got to play Dante. Potato'd, Forma'd twice and ran an SP Incursion on Tyana Pass, Mars.

I really like his kit overall! All of his combined spells feel good. That said, I didn't like that my allies had 10k-30k Overguard on base SP the whole time. Mine seemed to run out faster than theirs, but they were also playing far more elusive Warframes (2x Wisp + something else).

I was mostly just spamming Overguard and Slash nukes mindlessly til I ran out of Energy, waited for Arcane Energize to proc, repeat. It didn't feel very interactive at base SP. Probably would be fun at level cap? I didn't have time to do that.

I don't understand how this frame is okay at base star chart, but we've gone way past the point of that with so many other recent frames besides. EDIT: For example, look at Dagath, who is fairly easy (though tedious) to farm early on, doing 30k+ with one cast of her ultimate. Pair that up with literally any grouping ability or CC on your team and even the bosses become a joke for the most inexperienced players.
I do remember feeling overwhelmed when initially leveling him up (cuz duh no Overguard for a few levels). I got downed a few times for sure since I built him to go shadow wizard money gang mode.

Point is: if he doesn't have OG, he doesn't feel like a mindless drone.

I think it's also worth revisiting the concept of putting any OG on teammates at all, since we've got Stayanax and Kullervo who are pretty accessible from the start of your journey (and at Tennocon last year), and frankly, they feel more impactful than Trinity or Wisp (actually idk I haven't seen Trinity at all). Maybe just make that his augment down the road?

Overguard gives you so many benefits bundled in one. Protecting Shield and Health plus no knockdown plus Overgate... Yeah...

LoS check on his Expedite Suffering (Tragedy) is almost bizzare in that Dark Verse itself has no such requirement.

If you put LoS on Dark Verse... 💀

Power fantasy game can't handle a wizard's spells going through furniture and walls? But why.

Sure, he can Slash you through walls, but he can't make you hurt any more from DoT procs through walls. Huh?

EDIT: Okay technically this part was incorrect (Dark Verse already had a generous but nonetheless existent LoS check), but I *was* able to use his 3 through walls in SO/ESO... So I don't really understand what's going on. But this was a couple hotfixes ago.

Aren't the spells supposed to be synergistic...? Isn't the whole point of his gimmick to fuse his kit together in a beautiful display of magic? Hell, synergy is the name of the game when it comes to your beautiful game. Gauss is by far my most played frame for that reason.

I would totally understand toning down his range in general a bit (keeping synergy-spells the same as each other) since you'd have to compensate even more for max Overextended in the build, or maybe settle for a shorter-range brawler loadout.

Tragedy requires a good deal of Slash/Heat/Gas/Toxin/Viral (whatever works in context) priming to be used efficiently.

P.S.: I totally understand why one would put some team buffs on a Warframe, but unlike Qorvex or even augmented Revenant who can fill the role of tanky support quite naturally, Dante is by all means -- based on appearances and performance in my experience + gameplay I have seen -- meant to play a more mobile role. I mean, just look at his animation set and his casting. It's all very fluid and dynamic, much like Wisp. And they're #*!%ing amazing. Shout-out to the animators for real. Art team strong. Aren't most wizards kinda selfish in media? They hoard knowledge and keep to themselves, studying deep magicks and whatnot. We have frames like Gauss or Mesa that play the solo protagonist role, and I think he fits that niche nicely, by design.

I'm still pretty disappointed that it would've cost me 50 plat to roughly 300 plat to experience his Ultimate Form, but then again, I don't really think I would've found the insane Overguard to be "fun."

Appreciate those initial OG nerfs, as well as the other buffs, but I think we can keep going.

LoS check reversion. Pls DE.

EDIT: Meh whatever, he seems okay. Just don't understand why that happened before even a week was up.

Edited April 7 by sh0shin
I am a fool who got some things wrong, and will admit it.

[Singing_AngelTTV]

"makes a frame that's supposed to be a shadow wizard money gang that buffs and deal damage without needing weapons" proceeds to take the wizard part of the equation and turns him into MR fodder

 

 

Thanks DE I just wanted to be a wizard :(

[KingJerbear]

I genuinely feel scammed. This is the first frame in forever I actually bought with Platinum, now he is literally completely useless. If I'm one single stair below the floor my 4 just does not work. Line of sight means as long as you can see them it should work. I legitimately feel like I've been rugpulled by DE, I've honestly never felt this way before about Digital Extremes and I don't know what to think. How can you spend longer than 10 minutes internally testing this character, release it in the state it was in, and then think this is an acceptable fix that players will be okay with.

I know this is dramatic, but I'm honestly upset to the point I feel like uninstalling the game. Give me my platinum and forma back :'(

 

 

[IncuBB]

DE Megan: You can continue to share your feedback in the dedicated Dante Feedback sub-forum.
Also her: BTW, we don't give a damn about your opinion, unless you are asking to nerf frames.

[CephalonProxy]

If only they would revert Dante and Nezha Nerfs and just examine/rework OG and Rage interactions. "Don't want Dante first week the only fun week" 

[Samelann]

Let's be honest here, while people are unhappy with the changes and for valid reasons in my opinion, why were these changes rushed out? This can't have been tested to any level it needed to be when one looks at how Dante functions in current patch, Tragedy doesn't exist in a usable state, it seems almost like they weren't tested at all. This is beyond embarrassing and has me seriously reconsidering why I even bothered to return to the game for the first time in years for this update.

Edited April 5 by Samelann

[Bratty_Child]

DE, he's a strong and new frame. What were you expecting, people to bench him immediately like Caliban? Octavia and Xaku been promoting automated gameplay. Saryn has been dominant in damage dealing. Dante would been great contender as status damage dealer, and you're removing that? Keep playing favourite?

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You're straight up lying. You turn Tragedy to LoS and you removed status vulnerability from Pageflight. You better get someone with glibber tongue on these changes.

 

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ITS LITERALLY WHAT VULNERABILITY MEANS, ALIGNED WITH OTHER FORM OF VULNERABILITIES YOU MADE IN THE GAME. For sake of transparency why don't you add it in description instead of removing it? You literally wrote the code to give it STATUS VULNERABILITY and then give poor description of it. Then what? You're gaslighting us that you're not removing status vulnerability? The increased status chance affects ONLY Dark Verse which falls off after base Steel Path. You effectively removed Tragedy synergy. Not only that, the description for Tragedy is still false and misleading as it only affects Bleed, Heat, and Toxin DoT, not Gas or Electric.

 

 

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What experiment and engagement? Its just an extra turret with faulty firing system. It does not use tome mods or alternate fire. THAT THING IS COOKED. All you added is salt and the meal is still MUNDANE.

 

The overguard changes on Dante ability has been good but you literally touched his damage dealing capability, and lie and gaslight your players that you're not addressing Dante damage.

Edited April 5 by Bratty_Child

[Bratty_Child]

These changes are not meant to suspend the fun factor but to maintain our philosophy on why we nerf things in Warframe (automated play, disruptive to squad, or overly dominant). 

DE, he's a strong and new frame. What were you expecting, people to bench him immediately like Caliban? Octavia and Xaku been promoting automated gameplay. Rift and Gloom has been untouched at the cost of revamping entire ability resistance mechanic to major amount of enemies. Saryn has been dominant in damage dealing. Dante would been great contender as status damage dealer, and you're removing that? Keep playing favourite?

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After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needed to be addressed, but rather his accumulation of Overguard

You're straight up lying. You turn Tragedy to LoS and you removed status vulnerability from Pageflight. You better get someone with glibber tongue on these changes.

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• Final Verse’s “Pageflight” no longer applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms. 
  • This was an undocumented element of Pageflight, but for the sake of transparency we wanted to inform you of its removal. We believe its removal strikes a better balance and synergy with Status Damage inflicted by Tragedy.
  • NOTE: This is not a removal of the Status Vulnerability added to enemies by Pageflight. We are only removing the unintended additional damage taken from Status Effects. 

ITS LITERALLY WHAT VULNERABILITY MEANS, ALIGNED WITH OTHER FORM OF VULNERABILITIES YOU MADE IN THE GAME. For sake of transparency why don't you add it in description instead of removing it? You literally wrote the code to give it STATUS VULNERABILITY and then give poor description of it. Then what? You're gaslighting us that you're not removing status vulnerability? The increased status chance affects ONLY Dark Verse which falls off at base Steel Path. You effectively removed Tragedy synergy. Not only that, the description for Tragedy is still false and misleading as it only affects Bleed, Heat, and Toxin DoT, not Gas or Electric.

 

 

The overguard changes on Dante ability has been good but you literally touched his damage dealing capability, and lie and gaslight your players that you're not addressing Dante damage.

Edited April 5 by Bratty_Child

[MorganTTG]

Dante is just boring now. His overguard was nerfed to much and other frames are just better for it now. His LoS for tragedy is horrible, & his birds not doing the extra status damage is just plain awful. The LoS is awful. Please fix this DE listen to the thousands of NEGATIVE feedback you've received.

 

[OneOmniverse]

For me the truly frustrating and discouraging aspect of it is that Dante was originally and specifically designed as a SUPPORT frame, a role that only a few frames excel at. He was exceptional at providing support, keeping himself and his team alive. However, now he struggles to fulfill that role effectively, especially in high-level content. It's disheartening to see him go from being a reliable support frame to essentially a useless frame, a void created by misguided nerfs. You might as well put him inside the fish tank in Loid's lab.

Let's see here 

- The support frame can no longer support themselves or their team since the overguard ability was obliterated.
- The spellbook has become useless.
- The birbs have lost their status abilities, rendering them ineffective birbs
- The verses are now practically useless in most maps, as it requires line of sight and proximity to be effective. You might as well get in the enemies face and kiss them cause that's how close you might as well be to make it work.
- What used to require just a few button presses to be helpful now demands more than 10 or 20, draining his energy reserves even further. Unfortunately, his energy hasn't been buffed to compensate for this change.

You took one of the best frames in recent history and, metaphorically speaking, snapped him out of existence like Thanos. It was so fun and exciting but then THE FIRE NATION ATTACKED. It is a bait and switch tactic, using (FOMO) to entice players to invest their hard-earned money, time, and resources, such as Forma,. To make matters worse, all the effort put into farming and Forma-ing him and his spellbook has now become futile.

Y'all have again prioritized profit over player satisfaction, just like many other companies in the industry. Ok I understand  that profit matters but it shouldn't get in the way of the players fun and excitement , people  believed you were different. Sadly, you've chosen to listen to the vocal minority instead of the majority who simply wanted to have fun and experience a sense of power in a fantasy game.

It's safe to say I personally won't be playing Dante anymore, or the game. I wasn't heavily invested before Dante's release, his enjoyable gameplay made me consider giving the game another chance. However, now all that enjoyment is gone, along with the trust I had in your decision-making. It feels like you've been dishonest, trying to downplay the impact of the nerfs basically lying to our faces and that's beyond reproach. I'm severely disappointed and fed up with yall's nonsense. Everytime I try to come back yall do something asanine to push me away yet again. 

[KomuiWindstout]

Tragedy's LoS nerf is not inconvenient, is plain annoying with how incosistent the ability is now. If it must be nerfed, maybe reducing the range or the damage wpuld be preferable, as even if it is a small range the consistency would be better.

[Xenevier]

the nerf is not about numbers, its about LoS that makes everyone hate it, even me who though the overguard share was very good never mentioned tragedy being at the spot light for any of this, let alone a LoS nerf. if you wanted to nerf how strong tragedy was you would nerf the numbers not the mechanic for it, not that the damage was a problem. 

a lot of people disagree with the nerf entirely, some agree with the overguard part, no one agrees with the LoS change.

the whole discussion then went onto the rightful argument on Overguard making it for some frames harder to do their job. the target should have been that even before any nerfs were come up with. this didnt fix anything that anyone asked for, this doesnt fix the chroma or hunter/rage issues. this completely ignores it

i dont think "fixing" issues with LoS will make this better either, even with perfect LoS mechanics, this will hurt dante more than anyone ever asked for.

LoS makes everything worse and fixes nothing, the overguard issue with health damage and the overguard share amount is what people talked about.

even i who made the original post think this is way too far, this is a lose-lose for everyone, not a single person thinks LoS is a good idea for tragedy

Take the free PR win and revert the LoS instead of "fixing" it, look into how you can make overguard work with hunter's/rage or any other case that needs Hp damage.

i really hope you do take feedback the way you said and listen to what people want, the overguard nerf was maybe too harsh but the LoS nerf was just unnecessary and i dont see a single person disagree with wanting to revert LoS :/

[Xenevier]

the LoS change is too much man, no one thinks its good, people saying just jump and look down dont take into consideration maps dont allow for you to just jump all the time, that's only doable in simulacrum or open rooms, from the very first post i ever made i specificed overguard being an issue imo not tragedy, tragedy was fine