LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

[AHendy]

38 minutes ago, KaosKuantico said:

Revert the changes, create a dragon key to prevent overguard from those who don't want it. The complains were from team mates, not Dante's users. 

Wow, hadn’t even thought of that, what a stellar feedback.

[Moosecakes]

Just revert the tragedy nerf and actually fix the problem of overguarding health loss based frames.  Why be SO obtuse about this?  The doubling down on this negatively received nerf is a terrible, terrible look

Edited April 5 by Moosecakes

[N0ctis98]

I have been playing warframe for the past 8 years, and now that I have been financially stable for the last few years I haven't minded spending some money on warframe to support a game I love. I have bought most of the full prime accesses for the last few years and even bought the Dante bundle because I loved the concept and kit of Dante. But with the past/ current history of nerfing anything new. Especially with this insane nerf to dante and nezha, I am going to be very hesitant to spend anymore money on the game especially on any thing new (Jade).

[MightyMike87]

Here’s a thought where and when is the Gauss nerf happening? You know the most popular prime access in history? One of the most used and popular frames in the game that can nuke level cap enemies without even remotely investing in high strength mods? I can hold/tap a button twice and watch level cap enemies die to thermal sunder, all those chroma mains must be outraged. If the threshold for total destruction of a warframe is “he’s too popular/he’s overpowered” then how Gauss hasn’t been looked at is a mystery. Everything built remotely competently is overpowered in regular star chart.

Poor Protea prime, I give it a week before casual players get hold of her and realise… 

[DerPumpkinKing]

Please revert LoS. Literally fine with every other change :<

ESO yesterday was the most fun I have had with that game mode in three years. I ask for so little from you DE.

Edited April 5 by DerPumpkinKing
To state LoS was my only issue, nothing else

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

47 minutes ago, Zomiku said:

Thank you for listening to your players and their feedback.

Protip: You forgot the /s at the end. 

[Cephalon_Dante]

Making changes like this to a Warframe/Augment that has only been out for about a week makes me less likely to want to buy Jade or Protea Prime. Please reconsider these nerfs and look into what people were actually complaining about.

[Twisted_Wisdom]

3 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

 

We appreciate the video, since it showcases the problem with the current Line of Sight checks in a very analytical and accurate way.  However, the behavior in the video is what is being fixed. See attached video for the upcoming improvements to how we check for LOS that were mentioned in the first post.

Players are complaining about Dante's Overguard being too large/high, not his damage, so you don't address the overguard but nerf Dante's damage with LoS and yet Saryn, Octavia, Mirage etc exist.

[Crackensan]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We've been poring over your comments regarding the balance changes to Dante. We want to reiterate that we are paying close attention to player feedback and taking these conversations very seriously. As with everything in Warframe, iteration is always possible, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on how Dante feels now that these alterations are in your hands. 

One of the clearest pain points from the community is the inconsistencies in Tragedy’s Line of Sight (LOS) checks, and we can confirm that the following changes are already on deck for an upcoming hotfix: 

• Tragedy not hitting ragdolled enemies that are within LOS

• Increasing the number of LOS checks per enemy to improve the reliability of marginal hits 

We are still actively reading your feedback and encourage you to continue to share your constructive thoughts after spending time playing Dante with the changes. Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts with us thus far!

--
To add to the above, it's very obvious to us, as it is with players, that Tragedy's LOS is clearly not in an ideal state due to the bugs we listed above. It's not working as intended and we want to remedy that as soon as we can. Once the fixes go live, we'll be watching for your thoughts as you experience it the way was designed to function.  

 

As an aside @[DE]Megan; if this is how new warframes are treated, I am extremely disinterested and not likely to buy Jade on release like I did with Dante.

[Zeow31]

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Megan a dit :

To add to the above, it's very obvious to us, as it is with players, that Tragedy's LOS is clearly not in an ideal state due to the bugs we listed above. It's not working as intended and we want to remedy that as soon as we can. Once the fixes go live, we'll be watching for your thoughts as you experience it the way was designed to function.  

 

Khora's Whiplash has been functionning "the way it was designed" for over a year and it's absolute trash, same for Ember. LoS has never worked in this game, revert the changes or prepare for numbers to drop for whatever new warframes you have in the wings (Jade was it ?)

You hit absolute gold with Dante, fun concept, solid execution, solid to use in most content and you somehow decided that him being popular meant he deserved to die after a single week in game ?

Who is gonna buy the new frame or the new prime access when it being popular means you're gonna nerf it into the ground exactly ?

[Cegrin]

1 hour ago, Zomiku said:

99.9 feedback: revert changes or at least no LOS mechanic
DE: we implementing some sort of a bug fix of a whole different broken mechanic so we can use the LOS on Tragedy.


Thank you for listening to your players and their feedback.

A lot of that feedback is also not looking at this from a game design perspective, and several pluralities of it are:

1) Talking out of both sides of their mouths and tacitly acknowledging the problem they're saying didn't exist. This would be the "you should have buffed everything up to Dante's level rather than nerfing him" crowd.  Such an argument is wholly predicated on the idea that he was noticeably more powerful.
2) Egregiously hyperbolic, treating the fact that Dante is weaker than he was as treating him as now having no utility whatsoever (not dissimilar to the claims about Wukong after his rework because Defy was no longer a set-it-and-forget-it immortality button)
3) Outright invoking extreme outliers as the core of their argument (and disingenuously, at that).  This would be the "He's not that powerful after an hour or so in SP Survival" crowd.
4) Are being downright insulting in their presumptions, acting like the devs cannot have reached their own independent judgment and instead must have been "tricked" into nerfing the frame and must have made the decision because they took some rando at their word when they said it was too powerful.
5) Are mistaking the purpose of such changes as if they were simple popularity contests, as if simply demonstrating that a nerf is unpopular is in itself enough reason to undo it. 

If you want them to revert a change, you need hard math and practical examples within the gameplay bellcurve to demonstrate your point.

Edited April 5 by Cegrin
Posted prematurely

[Zeow31]

il y a 5 minutes, Cegrin a dit :

99% of the feedback is also not looking at this from a game design perspective, and several pluralities of it are:

1) Talking out of both sides of their mouths and tacitly acknowledging the problem they're saying didn't exist. This would be the "you should have buffed everything up to Dante's level rather than nerfing him" crowd.  Such an argument is necessarily predicated on
2) Egregiously hyperbolic, treating the fact that Dante is weaker than he was as treating him as now having no utility whatsoever (not dissimilar to the claims about Wukong after his rework because Defy was no longer a set-it-and-forget-it immortality button)
3) Outright invoking extreme outliers as the core of their argument (and disingenuously, at that).  This would be the "He's not that powerful after an hour or so in SP Survival" crowd.
4) Fail to understand niches or

What is Dante's utility now then ? Styanax does solid damage as he's throwing around more overguard. Saryn nukes twice as hard without LoS. Wisp murders him in every buff possible .

What's the niche then ? "Thank you for buying bootleg Styanax, go eff yourself" ?

Edited April 5 by Zeow31

[Heruzu2]

Why was Dante’s Tragedy even touched when REBECCA HERSELF said damage wasn’t the issue? ANDDDD, how can damage be Dante’s Issue when SARYN, MESA, ETC exist? ALSOOO, the changes ya made to OG absolutely has NOTHING to do with what was requested and what was stated…. Bro I thought I came back to ya being great… ya let me down horribly this week and established a precedent of buy NOTHING. Cause if ya nerfing frames into the ground after a week, what’s the point of buying anything, let alone trusting ya when Rebecca clearly lied numerous times on that live and did EXACTLY what she said she wouldn’t after telling us to trust them and not panic… smfh this is shameful 

[Malwen]

Only speaking on recent releases, I purchased Guass Prime Access complete, I paid for Dante Chronicles, the Sanctum Pack and I purchased the Tennocon pack. I had fully intended on getting Protea Prime complete when it released as well as whatever pack released with Jade. I'm now thinking that's not going to happen, and I'd love a refund on Dante and the forma I used on him as he is now mastery fodder.

The biggest issue I have is there was no good reason for these nerfs, other than Dante was new and shiny. He's wasn't the best at nuking, he wasn't the best at giving overguard, he wasn't the best support, nor did he make you invulnerable. Those accolade all belong to other frames, older frames. These nerfs to dante, when the majority of players have had access to him for what, four days after building? Feels like a knee-jerk reaction to a loud few players on the forum, with little to no forethought.

It gives me no faith in purchasing new releases, attempting to support a game I love. Why, when they are just going to be gutted when a a small number a extremely whiny players can get such a strong nerf before the majority of players have even finished building the warframe. The proposed changes don't go nearly far enough to fix the problem, there is no reason for Tragedy to be LoS bound, and anything short of a full reversal would be pointless.

Maybe spend some time addressing the core issue people have with frames giving them overguard, instead of band-aid fixing the problem by wrecking a frame.

Very very disappointed in the way this was handled.

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

REVERT THE CHANGES. 

I finally get a fun frame, can finally play with my clan, now it's back to being only in chat sitting in my orbiter cause yall can't leave well enough alone. He was fine. Now I gotta wait till when? The next months hotfix? So he's still dumpstered until then. 

Here's a idea. Hot fix a revert now, then iterate fir a few patches later so we can actively enjoy the frame. 

[Hodor_Roe]

just remove the LoS change. Dante's coverage is already limited by the 50 degree cone of his 3. I highly doubt y'all are going to be able to fix all the problems with your LoS detection without entirely overhauling the system.*

[Twisted_Wisdom]

So.. in an effort to not waste forma/reactors when a new warframe is released we need to wait a month or two (or six?) to see how DE is going to nerf the warframe, but then if we did that there would be no valie usage stats to go by with which to see if the warframe 'needs' to be nerfed. Dante was balanced out of the box is the impression i got from what DE have said about Dante and yet Dante has been nerfed.
Long time ago DE Steve said DE was going to work on bringing the not so good up to a better standard than nerfing the good stuff down to a worse standard... and yet the nerfing continues back to a worse state.

[Zomiku]

For example I've mained Wukong (and still) after his release on EU and I've met his rework absolutely positively. It was rework after a few years of a release not a hotfix nerf with broken mechanic.
 

6 minutes ago, Cegrin said:

treating the fact that Dante is weaker

that Dante was weaker than other nuke frames?

People offered a dozens of different solutions to this LOS idea same as overguard. And still the only real problem (overguard not triggering Rage etc) not touched.

[Nero.DMC]

6 minutes ago, Cegrin said:

99% of the feedback is also not looking at this from a game design perspective, and several pluralities of it are:

1) Talking out of both sides of their mouths and tacitly acknowledging the problem they're saying didn't exist. This would be the "you should have buffed everything up to Dante's level rather than nerfing him" crowd.  Such an argument is necessarily predicated on
2) Egregiously hyperbolic, treating the fact that Dante is weaker than he was as treating him as now having no utility whatsoever (not dissimilar to the claims about Wukong after his rework because Defy was no longer a set-it-and-forget-it immortality button)
3) Outright invoking extreme outliers as the core of their argument (and disingenuously, at that).  This would be the "He's not that powerful after an hour or so in SP Survival" crowd.
4) Fail to understand niches or

do you think this is acceptable?

 

Do you think this is the correct way of nerfing a frame? making him stupidly annoying to play to the point that people dont want to play it?
i stopped playing dante as a lot of ppl, did my bounties with Titania, we had a wisp a dante a titania and a Revenant, the Dante was spamming Tragedy
His damage at the end: 7%.... he was killing enemies with the skill, just 2 or 3 (that were directly next to him because LOS does not work and the update was not tested) per cast is extremely stupid to even consider this as a tweak or nerf, Dante is literally low tier trash now, AND he never was top tier either, he was high mid to low high  at his best, now he is mid low to high low  thanks to shields? They broke something that was perfectly okay as it was before 

[Breakingerr]

Revert changes, or at least revert Tragedy and Nezha's augment nerfs. Dante is pretty much gutted rn, while Augument is useless and reverts Nezha to Pre-Dante Unbound update.

[Tecstasy]

19 minutes ago, DerPumpkinKing said:

Please revert LoS. Literally fine with every other change :<

ESO yesterday was the most fun I have had with that game mode in three years. I ask for so little from you DE.

 Going in with an affinity booster with one weapon and having it maxed with 1 minute left in round 1 was very nice.

[(PSN)Thanatos-Prime]

42 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

Nerfs should NEVER EVER be a hotfix, you need to test them a LOT... they are not something you should ever do in a rush... and you clearly did, DE panicked for no reason the frame was fine, his numbers and output was fine and now you killed hype fun and trust for NOTHING...

Please refund everyone Dante formas and the frame for ppl that purchased it, its the only way you are going to keep a semblance of trust, or better yet revert those extremely dumb changes and take the time to balance him properly (even tho he is not outperforming any of the good frames)

Also this. I want my 5 forma back and the helmith resources to remove the shards, since you dumpstered the frame and wasted my time. 

It'll never happen but it should. 

[Sarvantus]

If these changes are going to be kept. May we all be reimbursed all the materials put into upgrading Dante please.

If I was aware how you would have changed him today, I would not have spent the forma (including an umbra) on him.

[CoffeeSorcerer69]

Revert the Dante Line of Sight nerf.

[Cegrin]

3 minutes ago, Zeow31 said:

What is Dante's utility now then ? Styanax does solid damage as he's throwing around more overguard. Saryn nukes twice as hard without LoS. Wisp murders him in every buff possible .

What's the niche then ? "Thank you for buying bootleg Styanax, go eff yourself" ?

Same as before, just not as efficiently.  Dante can still quickly buff the party's defenses through overguard just as high as before, it just takes more casts.  He can still shred enemies vulnerable to status, it just requires a bit more precision.  And so on.