LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

[SzunPrime]

Certainly this is the last time I bought a new frame collection 💀

[Ernis_Fresh]

Revert the changes. Or nerf everything else then.... I came back to this game after a loooong break last year because I saw positive changes to the game and since then I spent like 800eur+ since I now have the means to do it compared to when I started as a teenager. And with these kinds of changes I'm starting to regret it because it seems everytime the game goes in positive direction it starts to slipback after awhile in classic DE fashion. How about instead of nerfing Dante buff all the older outdated frames. Saryn can nuke whole maps, while most warframe ultimates are crap (ex. Bladestorm). Revenant is immortal and can make his whole team mates immortal. While something like rhino can get like 8k overguard with high strenght and armor build. Does that mean we should nerf revenant? NO. Old and outdated frames should be buffed otherwise we have this situation on our hands where people feel useless if they don't bring the new shiny and ask for nerfs because their favourite isin't up to par anymore. Tldr: Pick a lane either make everything suck or make it so that no warframe is left out.

[Nero.DMC]

38 minutes ago, [DE]Momaw said:

 

We appreciate the video, since it showcases the problem with the current Line of Sight checks in a very analytical and accurate way.  However, the behavior in the video is what is being fixed. See attached video for the upcoming improvements to how we check for LOS that were mentioned in the first post.

 

I am literally pointing at them with my gun...
 

[Dex-Lemon]

Dante's tragedy makes what Dante is, you said that his damage is not the issue but the OG was and in the nerf line put nerf on every dmg possibility, his tragedy wasn't disruptive, if you want to make him balanced then remove his OG for squad as this one seems to be the pressure point for others, LoS makes him a joke now, all he can do is just OG squad and call it a day, as his 2nd and 3rd are in tight synergy with final verse which doesn't even do anything but put some status effect. What's the point of playing him then? Then there are frames out there like titania, syran, mesa who can literally nuke any map with one ability, LoS wont gonna make dante reliable but will make him another caliban who will never see the light of the day again. Revert tragedy nerf please. 

Edited April 4 by Dex-Lemon

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

The Divine Comedy of Dante.

[nicolajtheking2]

4 minutes ago, Sarulas said:

There is no salvaging this mess, at least not with a hotfix like this. After the comments about this being a 'light adjustment' that was going to be 'carefully considered,' destroying the functionality of Dante's kit like this a mere 2 days later is a slap in the face. Such a high profile failure severely damages the community's trust, and will kill interest in other new frames as their power could swing wildly as the result of these unnessesary and reactionary nerfs.

This LoS change must be FULLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY reverted. Attempting to double down by fixing issues that shouldn't exist in the first place will only further erode trust.

You won't get more chances at this. If tomorrow's hotfix doesn't completely solve the many issues introduced today, there will be no way to save face. And based on the outline you provided in this post, that seems incredibly unlikely. Further attempts to update the flaws with LoS checks will only draw more attention to the fact that it didn't need to be changed in the first place. Removing the restriction down the line after failing to address the problems will only cause more embarrassment. And leaving it in such a broken state is obviously unacceptable.

Please. Revert this mistake. Do it now, and save yourselves the hassle and PR.

I would like your post but I apparently ran out of likes for today(?)(I was liking other posts demanding the nerfs to be reverted) so I'll just do this instead.
+1

Edited April 4 by nicolajtheking2

[Seven-T-Four]

Personally, I'm not 100% sure why the owl deserved a nerf.

Only argument I see being repeated is that it messes with builds that rely on taking damage to health, but any frame that generates shield or overguard interrupts these mechanics. This is a problem with health-damage mechanics, not overguard generation. Who (aside from inaros and nidus via nidus shenanigans) can actually take damage to their health and survive in steel path anyways? How is this a dante problem?

Dante is capable of killing large groups of enemies... like many other frames. Not sure how the line of sight changes are necessary, dante does not seem out of line compared to octavia/gauss and friends in the aoe department.

What was actually deserving of a nerf?

Justice for owl, revert line of sight at least.

[Crackensan]

2 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

 

I am literally pointing at them with my gun...
 

Wow, that's even worse.

[FOXedpoy2001]

this nerf was highly unneeded. please revert changes or just nerf dmg.. but not LoS dude.. Why is saryn not LoS then she can nuke the entire map aswell..

[DevilRaziel116]

Revert the LOS changes on Dante!

[Dk-Rlyeh]

23 minutes ago, CjoewD said:

Since LoS is not getting reverted, can I just get a refund? Ive never asked for a refund in my like 11-10 years of playing. Is there a request ticket i can fill out?

Jumping on this comment, i as well have never asked for a refund, and recently got back into the game and got others into it as well.
after this "nerf" , could i request a ticket too fill out and get refunded the plat i used on his bundle ,and the forma i used ? 

i don't even care about the boosters i bought too level him up , but i would like a refund on this frame. hes not fun anymore, and these "fixes"/"balances" are abysmal, not enjoyable , and now regret buying so much platinum recently seeing as this is the route the game will go.

 and crowd control getting worse and worse?



 

[-ShadowRadiance-]

Remember ppl to not buy Jade when she comes out until after a week. 

 

[MightyMike87]

As many other have already said Dante wasn’t even remotely close to being at a level where any nerfs were even necessary never mind totally dumping him in the trash to keep Caliban company. There’s about 20 frames that can nuke non Steel path level content without issue and at least a dozen better at actual Steel path than Dante was before these nerfs. How can anyone look at any “Data” when he’s only been playable to the vast majority of the community for 4 days MAX!? What data even is there after 4 days?? Like hello people use new shiny toy in immediate days after release shocker. 
 

All actions like this do is make people extremely reluctant to engage in any new release warframe going forward out of fear of this very treatment. Why purchase anything when within a few days what you purchased doesn’t even exist anymore? Why invest 4/5/6 Forma into something that is going to be rendered redundant in a matter of days? You don’t get those resources back. 4 days this warframe has been usable to the vast majority of the community, utterly ridiculous and a monumental overreaction to nerf him like this. 
 

looking forward to Protea getting hammered pretty soon as well seeing as she’s one of the few S tier frames that’s largely underused by the vast majority. Just no point even bothering to farm her never mind invest in a build when she’s released, not for a good month anyway. 

[DanteTheHawk]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

We've been poring over your comments regarding the balance changes to Dante. We want to reiterate that we are paying close attention to player feedback and taking these conversations very seriously. As with everything in Warframe, iteration is always possible, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on how Dante feels now that these alterations are in your hands. 

One of the clearest pain points from the community is the inconsistencies in Tragedy’s Line of Sight (LOS) checks, and we can confirm that the following changes are already on deck for an upcoming hotfix: 

• Tragedy not hitting ragdolled enemies that are within LOS

• Increasing the number of LOS checks per enemy to improve the reliability of marginal hits 

We are still actively reading your feedback and encourage you to continue to share your constructive thoughts after spending time playing Dante with the changes. Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts with us thus far!

--
To add to the above, it's very obvious to us, as it is with players, that Tragedy's LOS is clearly not in an ideal state due to the bugs we listed above. It's not working as intended and we want to remedy that as soon as we can. Once the fixes go live, we'll be watching for your thoughts as you experience it the way was designed to function.  

 

Can we just get our refunds? I would like my plat and forma back and you can have your nerfed Warframe. 

[maximo806]

can you please revert the changes to over guard? do only 300 points of over guard recovered instead of 500

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Here is my own feedback. 

i haven't actually gotten to play Dante that much. I did play update on release day, but only for a bit. Wasn't until a day later I could really play, and enjoy the new Disruption mode. Which I very much enjoyed. The new Disruption mode and general changes are very welcome and appreciated. I foresee myself playing it regularly just for fun. Which I also found ironic, because this felt like one of the fastest farming for a Warframe in a while, I got two Dante part BP's and enough currency to start building them after an hour of playing. Then it took around 3 days a bit to build, and I was fine just waiting instead of rushing. Was very much enjoying the rest of the update in the mean time, especially the new Augments, which are some of the best. 

My main point is I have only really played Dante for around 2 days, and he was really really fun. Powerful? I think so, usually when I get a new Warframe, I like to take them into a Steel Path mission, just for fun, to see how they perform under levelled, no Forma (do pop in a Reactor though). Once Dante's abilities were unlocked, I did feel pretty strong. They do feel relatively more powerful than a lot of other Warfames I play, but and again, only played and tested for 2 days,  not excessively so, and I do think you need to be more active and engaged with Dante's abilities to get that performance. Personally, I think different Warframes are great by having different strengths/weaknesses, not just from a game play effectiveness sense, but a game play style and personality sense... Like Octavia is extremely strong/powerful, but her gameplay loop is. a little... repetitive, arguably boring for many. Which is you know subjective, and obviously to those that main Octavia she isn't boring, but thats sort of what I mean. Lavos for example, I like a lot, and think he is very powerful, but it also requires mixing elements, and so he is pretty engaging to me. Arguably many find him boring/annoying though.

Dante in my limited experience, felt powerful, but in an engaging way, that required effort. Like a lot of comparisons are being made, Revenant? Really powerful, but mostly used and perceived that way because of his ability to tank and not die. Specifically it could be said, how easy and convenient that immortality is. Every Warframe can be made to be nigh immortal with enough parkour finesses, game knowledge and mechanical skill, but if you want a fast, easy, simple route, Revenant is strong there. Likewise many people are mentioning Saryn. Extremely high DPS output, but... she is decently squishy as well, relatively speaking. For many it sort of balances her out. Like I would assume that Revenant has high pick rates in Archon Hunts and Netracells, than Saryn, because more people care more about not dying and losing rewards than killing lots of enemies fast, with Saryn. Dante felt like a fun mix, of power in abilities and defence, but in neither extreme and with some more engagement due to the casting aspect of his kit. 

Again though, I only got to play him for about 2 days. Didn't get to do a Netracell with him, or Archon Hunt or many team missions... So I don't actually think I am in a good position to really gauge whether I think he needed a nerf, or to form strong opinions... Do feel a little negative on hearing about the nerfs, maybe once I get hands on I might feel different? I guess a part of me is also curious as to why more time wasn't allowed to pass, because like... I play Warframe a lot, and I only got around 2 days to use him, I imagine there must be many many people whose Dante is still building and or not even farmed yet...?!? Also we just got another hard mode added to the game via Deep Archimedia... Which is really interesting, and I know there is an RNG element involved with choices around Warframes to use, but having another strong Warframe to the roster, in theory sounded pretty good. The same way I would often see a lot more Revenants in Archon Hunts (even though I am not the biggest fan of that Warframe). 

I always like to remind myself I don't have access to the same numbers and data that game developers do when it comes to making decisions around balance, but and so just going off my own basic experiences, which were also limited by only two days of playing and testing... well I guess I wish I had more time with pre change Dante, and I thought he was really fun, decently powerful, but not in bad or negative way in regards to other Warframes. In a way that felt earned. Also saying that in the context of someone who has enjoyed Dagath, Qorvex, Citrine, Kullervo (Voruna was okay), so its not like I want every Warframe to try and match Dante either... just like I wouldn't want Saryn or Revenant nerfed either. I am also quite fond of Nyx for example... 

TL;DR version, do sorta wish the nerfs were reverted a bit. To what extent? I guess I don't really know, since I didn't actually get to test them out that much. I don't even have a Forma in them, because I was still not sure how I should build him. I still imagine he could be fun regardless, but there are also a lot of fun Warframes I don't really end up using either. Thanks for taking in all our feedback! 

[Nero.DMC]

Just now, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Remember ppl to not buy Jade when she comes out until after a week. 

let me fix that for you:
Remember ppl to not buy Jade when she comes out until after a week. anything from DE ever again.

[Sir-Lorkhan]

18 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Remember ppl to not buy Jade when she comes out until after a week. 

 

🤣🤣

Dont buy her at all, she will be trash looking at what they just did. Here I was thinking DE was getting better. Dante is trash now. Even pre-rework Inaros was better!

[Crypturn]

Revert the changes to tragedy. That's all !

[Mewvg2]

Revert the Dante and Nezha changes entirely.

There is no other acceptable option.

 

There is no way you have enough data in 8 days to make sweeping nerfs. All you are doing is making sure the community has no reason to get excited for future content on release in the future. It follows the pattern of Styanax post release nerfs and Voruna / Dagath / Qorvex pre-release nerfs and lack of fixes for months. There is no reason to get excited for new content anymore, it'll either come out in a worthless state or be nerfed to oblivion within the first month.

 

I don't care about the new game mode, my best friend that I wanted to play the new game mode with was so excited for Dante and enjoys playing him so much I can't just ruin his entire reason for playing at the moment by breaking the news about the nerfs to him. Thanks for ruining what was a golden update with bull$%#@.

[DeadxxSmile]

Just now, Nero.DMC said:

let me fix that for you:
Remember ppl to not buy Jade when she comes out until after a week. anything from DE ever again.

Exactly. 

[nicolajtheking2]

1 minute ago, Nero.DMC said:

let me fix that for you:
Remember ppl to not buy Jade when she comes out until after a week. anything from DE ever again.

The true hotfix we needed.

[Prism77]

Welp...*Tosses Dante into the Mastery Fodder Bin*...he was fun while he lasted.

[Eletal]

Do I think that there was a nice bump in the numbers as people bought the Dante pack? Yes.

So much so, I'd bet there were already internal notes to do a similar pack for the next new frame. I guarantee you are not going to see such a reaction again though. The trust is completely gone with this "tragedy". I'd go so far to even say this could potentially damage sales of the tennocon packs as the community hesitates to invest further. 

If you want to regain/ earn back some trust it's easy. Show you are listening. The majority clearly think only a full reversion of the nerf is the way to go for the moment. Tweaks and further fixes will not restore confidence. DE needs own that this was a mistake. Show a bit of contrition and effort to fix and repair things and then going forward engage with the community to show that you are sencere about this. Otherwise going forward players will always be hesitent now to engage with new frames, especially to hand over money and that's also what will be communicated to new players as they come on board. This needs to be fixed before it results in long term issues rather than just a short term mistake that was corrected.

[Supreme_ONE]

Revert the changes or give me my 5 forma, the orokin reactor and the 6 hours I spent farming and leveling him back please and thanks. Cause they are other frames I could invest into that do better than Dante, But I played  Dante because he was fun, felt good to play and was a viable allrounder frame. But I guess having a fun frame was to much to ask.