PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.4

[AR_Has]

just tried him he is trash in killing now , back to boring weapon platform meta which is 10x times more consistant , why should i cast 3 abilities in 3-4 seconds and still miss enemies right infront of me when i can 0 energy delete them with any incarnon and aoe weapon .... we told you to nerf his og but keep his damage, we dont want a support in a meta all about damage, ruining our fun and leaving this bad of a taste in our mouth, then have the audacity to say you are listening to our feedback is an insult to our intelligence 

[Amen-san]

11 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Nor did I (Or a lot of players for that matter) ask for these changes either. But instead of calling out the devs, you expect everyone to just lie down and be walked all over like a compliant little doormat such as yourself. You are pathetic!

Nice assumption there. But no, I do expect people to complain. I expect people to be reasonable with there complaints as well, and not throw temper tantrums and insult people, kinda like what you and what a lot of the community are doing now.

Have you even tried Dante's other build that still nukes every enemy you look at? Probably not. You probably wrote him off right away instead of actually testing what the changes did to him. Did you know that with Secondary Outburst + Ceramic Dagger that his book can hit up to 10mil damage on groups of enemies? Still probably not. What about the fact that Tragedy's damage hasn't been touched, so in large open rooms you can still nuke every enemy in sight? Probably also not. 

Here's what you need to do. Understand that for 100 energy, Dante was able to nuke every enemy within 70 meters with no LoS check. Saryn can't do that, Mesa can't do that, Gauss can't do that. Every single example that people have given when comparing Dante to others, cannot do that. If you expected Dante to exist without getting a nerf that severely impacted the ability of his 4, you are delusion, and have no respect for game balance. Even in a PvE game, balance is important. 

[Egathentale]

Okay, so there's a new update on Reddit. To summarize:

• The Pageflight nerf is getting reverted
• Chroma will get additional ways to build Vex Armor (damage on ranged and armor or melee kills) even while Overguarded
• Rage/Adrenaline will work with Overguard, but only if the frame doesn't have shields at the moment (meaning, Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus should be able to gain energy all the time, regardless of OG)
• No solid word on the LoS changes, calling them "a big correction", without implying further changes
• No word on the Nezha augment

The changes are apparently coming with a hotfix next week.

Edited April 5 by Egathentale

[Sin3z]

16 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

Gauss also has more limited range to Dante, less offensive and defensive utility for his TEAM and his nuke doesn't scale very well beyond being an armor stripping bot which other abilitys can also do much more effectively at scaled play.

Dante provides all these weapon and defensive buffs to himself AND the team. Dante also has damage multiplication on DoT abilities which when paired with any other DoT applying warframe could provide insane amounts of raw damage scaling into unprecedented levels of play. Now, there are other ways to deal with those problems aside from LoS but I think using LoS to address it when the rest of his kit is as useful to the team as it is isn't a bad thing.

I see the comparison you are trying to make but I think we will infinitely disagree that a LoS nerf is an unacceptable way to deal with the situation. I'd rather have AoE LoS expedite than removing that mechanic and keeping it a nuke every day of the week. Why? Because it adds methods of play and utility that other warframes don't have and that makes Dante more interesting and less mindless. I count that as a positive.

Tbf gauss's nuke still instakills all trash thats sub 150(just like dante, even key presses are similar hitting 3 twice and then holding it for the nuke) and agreed his defensive utility is def lower than dante but id say armor stripping targets completely outscales any offensive utility dante provides especisally considering that it enables the same 1 button nuke spam that other frames have. I also agree that not everybuff dante has needs to apply to the entire squad without, but they arent just percentage buffs to what your team does similar to roar, but are instead their own instance of damage at a diminished value which is reliant on dante building his tome in a specific way for that to matter. Otherwise the damage increase is negligable.

Overall I think you make fair points and i appreciate that you were willing to respond with your actual thoughts instead of just passing off my comment, but im not really convinced that his state really warranted changes that we got besides the overguard nerfs if anything really.

Also i understand striking a balance of using weapons and abilities, which i agree with, but i felt dante had that, i mean if you really wanted to get the most out of the frame you wouldnt really run weapons like the torrid and such but run something as a primer for increased damage on your casts. Regardless casting is what you would be doing most of the time and using weapons as primers let you double down on what you wanted to do anyways.

Edited April 5 by Sin3z

[Zaghyr]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

HAHAHAHAH i said it.

Just a Bruch of angry ppl, they cant think clear.

Just a bunch of triggered man-children. These threads are ridiculous. 

[AR_Has]

10 minutes ago, Amen-san said:

Nice assumption there. But no, I do expect people to complain. I expect people to be reasonable with there complaints as well, and not throw temper tantrums and insult people, kinda like what you and what a lot of the community are doing now.

Have you even tried Dante's other build that still nukes every enemy you look at? Probably not. You probably wrote him off right away instead of actually testing what the changes did to him. Did you know that with Secondary Outburst + Ceramic Dagger that his book can hit up to 10mil damage on groups of enemies? Still probably not. What about the fact that Tragedy's damage hasn't been touched, so in large open rooms you can still nuke every enemy in sight? Probably also not. 

Here's what you need to do. Understand that for 100 energy, Dante was able to nuke every enemy within 70 meters with no LoS check. Saryn can't do that, Mesa can't do that, Gauss can't do that. Every single example that people have given when comparing Dante to others, cannot do that. If you expected Dante to exist without getting a nerf that severely impacted the ability of his 4, you are delusion, and have no respect for game balance. Even in a PvE game, balance is important. 

the way you lie is funny , anything beyond level 50 needs dark verse that already had LOS for tragedy to do any damage , keep white knighting DE and not calling them out on their unfair nerfs and huge ego that won't admit their mistakes

[I-Mad_Genius]

2 hours ago, Blaudari said:

Nice, thanks for the hotfix DE. Just wish people would stop complaining about not being able to nuke the entire game with 1 press of a button as dante.

But doing it with sarym, gauss, etc is fine?

[-AncientWarrior-]

Jeez.. DE wtf .. you nerf a frame 5 days old, thousands of complaints, you're listening to something but not paying attention to said complaint issues.  Reminds me on Khora.. you nerfed her with your pitiful attempt at LOS back then and havent been able to fix her for what 2 years.. just stop digging bigger holes and revert the Dante nerfs, and get back to making bug fixes for the rest of the game stopping bugs.  Dante was one of the best playing, most enjoyable warframes you have ever released, and you whacked him with the ugly hammer within a week.. crazy decision making happening somewhere at DE..

[Museigen]

Another round of testing. Now Murmur, Persto (survival) steel path. I'm gonna make it simple because there's nothing much to add here. It's terrible. The lab tileset is already a low density map with a lot of rubble and obstacles, and a lot of resilient enemies that demand special attention. Dante's performance there was cut like it's no joke. If it's to gutter a frame like that, it's better to just release tanks and weapon platforms. Make the game like Destiny, I'm sure people will love it.
Before Dante I played volt melee influence that destroyed steel path, guess I'm going back... or not. I'm not interested in a game that destroys itself. Pageflight rollback can be good, but this line of sight and the overguard nerf is all unecessary. It was really a shortsighted "balance tweak".

Edited April 5 by Museigen

[PlanAHasFailed]

Right then, focusing on the Tragedy LoS...

It seems that Dante himself (meaning his model) can 'block' your LoS on targets sometimes.  FoV settings and camera angle also seem to affect weather or not a given target is within LoS as well as some tile geometry when it probably shouldn't (especially with transparent/semi transparent barriers and grate-like decorative filigree).  I haven't tested anything in Kuva Fortress yet but I'm sure there will be plenty of problem areas there.

 

Bottom line - this is better but it's still very inconsistent and inconsistency is the enemy of 'feelgood' gameplay.  

[Amen-san]

20 minutes ago, AR_Has said:

the way you lie is funny , anything beyond level 50 needs dark verse that already had LOS for tragedy to do any damage , keep white knighting DE and not calling them out on their unfair nerfs and huge ego that won't admit their mistakes

Okay, so if Dark Verse already has an LoS restriction to it, then why does Tragedy having one matter if you needed Dark Verse for it to deal damage? 

 

Also where did I white knight? I literally said I expect people to complain if it's reasonable. But people are just throwing insults around. That's not helpful criticism. 

Edited April 5 by Amen-san

[PlanAHasFailed]

36 minutes ago, Amen-san said:

Here's what you need to do. Understand that for 100 energy, Dante was able to nuke every enemy within 70 meters with no LoS check. Saryn can't do that, Mesa can't do that, Gauss can't do that. Every single example that people have given when comparing Dante to others, cannot do that. If you expected Dante to exist without getting a nerf that severely impacted the ability of his 4, you are delusion, and have no respect for game balance. Even in a PvE game, balance is important. 

Nerfing the range on Dante's 4 would have been vastly preferable to what they did/are doing.

[Amen-san]

6 minutes ago, PlanAHasFailed said:

Nerfing the range on Dante's 4 would have been vastly preferable to what they did/are doing.

No I agree. I think making it a flat 50 meters unaffected by range would've been best. That way it's locked at affinity range, so allies would always get the buffs, even on negative range builds, which would open up more build options for him. 

[Stomno]

Stop doing this. Revert him to where he was at launch.

[Travie2JZ]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

Light Verse and Triumph Overguard Increases: 
The second pillar of feedback we want to address is our changes to Dante’s Overguard capabilities. We went too deep with the initial decrease and are, therefore, bumping up the Overguard gain from Light Verse and Triumph to a middle ground between their pre- and post-balance states.   

• Increased the Overguard gained from Light Verse from 250 to 350 at Max Rank.
• Increased the Overguard gained from Triumph from 2000 to 3000 at Max Rank.

We knew we could tackle LoS improvements and Overguard bumps today without hesitation. However, this is just the tip of the feedback iceberg, and we know there’s more that’s been shared beyond what we can accomplish today regarding both LoS, Overguard, and more. So we’ll continue to digest and evaluate feedback, and we encourage you to keep sharing in the dedicated Dante Feedback subforum.

 

"After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needed to be addressed, but rather his accumulation of Overguard."
 

I know you guys aren’t listening to your players/paycheck writers, but are you even hearing yourselves?

[sh0shin]

Yeah why the heck did that even happen

[Akoshus]

Now how about reverting the range nerf on Divine Retribution and either reducing or reworking the status damage multiplier or just remove that portion and make it simple status spread. This mod was the best thing that happened to a frame that would otherwise just helminth off its last ability to make room for a grouping or damage buffing ability, it enabled build diversity, it enabled Nezha to nuke.

If Saryn, Mesa, Octavia, Kullervo are all allowed to exist and thrive as nukers, why isn't Nezha? 50% in radius means 87% reduction in a spherical coverage. It's a massive nerf that could have been addressed differently without gutting the augment.

[AprilsVeryOwn]

Why not refund people in game resources when you decide to make incompetent decisions like this? Why nerf LoS when you don't have a full solution for it? Why aren't you guys testing these things before you cause people to waste their time? 

 

 

[addex]

3 hours ago, L115A3_XB1 said:

if they took advice everytime joe blogs on the internet gave his 2 dollars in rage at  an ability change the game would be a shambles , if DE want LoS the n LoS will remain , i aint white knighting them cause DE aint close to perfect and have done some legit questionable stuff regardless  tragedy still hits like a truck , oh god forbid you cant nuke the next room with it  - plenty of abilities  using LoS  just suprised they didnt  go harder on changes ,  still issues with overguard and chroma interactions but thats a different issue that Dante isnt exclusive too just  highlighted it more .

 

Frames on launch are always subject to pending changes upon public release , theres hardly any mislead anywhere just wish folk would remember to think from a Dev's perspective and not from an emotional standpoint 

So no testing before? we have dante  over 1 month  w the abilities they launched !! it was good ppl loved it now comes this nerf and LOS speech?huh? makes no sense seems no one tested it  or tried it !! and again what was the  urgency to nerf dante?what was the big problem? not to mention the butcher of nehza  augment making it useless!!no one tested there? its hard to understand or take serious...not a word on that !!they giving us what we do not want and ask and  keeping all that is bad and to root issue...insane!!!!

[Kaggelos]

3 hours ago, iSiawPrime said:

listen to your community for once

They do 9 times out of 10.

Almost all patchnotes from every update prove the contrary to what you say.

This opinion and narrative that they never listen has to stop.

I understand your frustration, but lets keep it real.

Cheers ^^

[Ariel2035]

tragedy 180° front dante + 5m around

 

[addex]

How about the nehza augment ?nothing on that?its urgent to address this ....a nerf where in order although i question the  testing of it but this nerf was simply too muuc and ruins the augment . And the good thing is that you could use multiple high damage single target weapons that are hard to use  and make it good again like the synapse. This was beyond disappoint and more noth a word on this ...why make it like this to gut it ? what a sick joke  and again very disappointing ...1 week later no wait no nothing. so now  we have a messed nehza  and a messed up Dante ....i tried Dante on simulacrum after the fix and  the LoS does not allow to nuke all enemies on the back due to this....why? what was the big problem? saryn kullervo octavia ....but Dante is the issue? Then change it all to LoS  saryn for example.....that is what we all want!!!please read the comments DE  and see this has a opportunity to really listen acknowledge revert get data and then  do changes!!not like this!! but the nehza agument is  the worst ....makes no sense and again silence on that.....

[Skynet66]

3 hours ago, MrDerpHerpin said:

cool, now give me my shards back that i had on Dante please! 

You can remove them? Just go to the Helminth

[RainThaBeast]

3 hours ago, RivaAurelius said:

I will be requesting a refund for Dante. This is ridiculous and leaves a horrible taste in the mouth.

 

3 hours ago, captn_Pat said:

So dante is still castrated but has slightly less problems with los, but way more than before your "delicate adjustments"? Revert him to where he was at launch ffs

I agree. I spent real money on him and with the nerfs, I feel scammed. Please dona 100% revert to where he was before you destroyed his fun factor.

[AR_Has]

55 minutes ago, Amen-san said:

Okay, so if Dark Verse already has an LoS restriction to it, then why does Tragedy having one matter if you needed Dark Verse for it to deal damage? 

 

Also where did I white knight? I literally said I expect people to complain if it's reasonable. But people are just throwing insults around. That's not helpful criticism. 

bcs it ruins his synergy and ruins the flow , for example u can cast 3 on multiple enemies in different directions then cast 4th to kill them all , mark and kill synergy is screwed , then another thing if u mark an enemy then his bloody leg or hand goes behind an enemy or wall he wont die with tragedy even if he was marked with dark verse , keep white knighting on things you dont understand tho

Edited April 5 by AR_Has