[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[DeadS1lence]

It baffles me how they can say they listen to feedback and yet, ignore the overwhelming feedback to revert the nerf, but instead double down on this LoS nonsense. LoS has always been unreliable. It makes the game and frame inconsistent and no one enjoys inconsistency.

[OneOmniverse]

34 minutes ago, DeadS1lence said:

It baffles me how they can say they listen to feedback and yet, ignore the overwhelming feedback to revert the nerf, but instead double down on this LoS nonsense. LoS has always been unreliable. It makes the game and frame inconsistent and no one enjoys inconsistency.

 It only did they ignore but ignored the recommendations that would make it better  and went ahead and did it anyway . Completely tone deaf ,neglectful and obviously no respect for the community 

[tartcactus]

So, the reason for nuking Dante into the ground was to pacify the Chroma Mains. Good to know. Let us know when you decide you want to have people play Dante again. You know, when you admit that Loss of Sight is not EVER a viable mechanism in Warframe. How can you even try to excuse this travesty as simply,"not implemented to our standards"? You totally rushed an untested, ham-fisted: half baked kneejerk nerf/nuke if a brand new, and for once in a long while, fun to play frame all just to placate one small segment of the community and, surprise, surprise, it bit you squarely on the rear. I still want a refund for what I spent for Dante, because he is no longer what I paid for. You asked for continued honest feedback, You have just got it.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

1 hour ago, OneOmniverse said:

 It only did they ignore but ignored the recommendations that would make it better  and went ahead and did it anyway . Completely tone deaf ,neglectful and obviously no respect for the community 

Its like the herloom situation you half to be louder and more aggressive if you want them to listen to you because only when we stood our ground did we get answers and a promise they wouldn't do it again and fix the next herloom pack and make them more freandly for people that don't have 70 to 100 dollars for cosmetics 

Now we half to do the same thing to get them to listen to there comunity and revert the changes on Dante back to his purfect form 

[OneOmniverse]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Its like the herloom situation you half to be louder and more aggressive if you want them to listen to you because only when we stood our ground did we get answers and a promise they wouldn't do it again and fix the next herloom pack and make them more freandly for people that don't have 70 to 100 dollars for cosmetics 

Now we half to do the same thing to get them to listen to there comunity and revert the changes on Dante back to his purfect form 

Exactly that was entirely too much the same price as actual prime access smh. It’s literally so easy to change him back to where he was pre nerf and just as easy to remove LOS like just take it out of the game the most stubborn devs I’ve seen in all the games I’ve played honestly smh

[FreeWilliam]

On 2024-04-05 at 11:55 AM, [DE]Momaw said:

Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard.

I don't think this really solves the problem for any frame that actually has shields. What other method do we have to strip off our shields to gain energy when there's a bunch of Overguard in front of it?

[Binket_]

15 hours ago, BloodyPrimeSkull said:

My God, who are you painting these sheets of text for? No one will read you.

Judging by the fact that the reply you quoted seems to be in Russian when I'm typing in English? I'll assume not you, because your translator broke.
Besides, this isn't TikTok. It's the FORUMS. A place where you're going to see text explaining why things break.

Than again, I can see why people instantly raise their pitchforks. God forbid they take up basic literacy!~

15 hours ago, BloodyPrimeSkull said:

Judging by the way you defend Dante's OG and talk about his HUGE damage, I can conclude that you haven't played it beyond the initial levels.

1. I think his OG was overtuned to lunacy. He still does lots of damage, no matter if it's a Line-of-Sight nerf or whatever else.
2. I play pretty exclusively Steel Path because everything else gets boring for me.
3. If you lump "initial levels" in with Steel Path, DE themselves have said that "Level Cap isn't the metric they wanna design the game for".
   It's a byproduct of tons of morons demanding more and more power until Level Cap became a joke. Only so much DE can do there.

If you stand completely still in a room with Level 300+ enemies? Yes, you'll die quickly.
That can be said for pretty much every Warframe. The only ones that can are ones like Octavia and Revenant.
One who get extremely bad reps BECAUSE of that.

Add some basic movement though and-- WOW.
His survivability skyrockets because he's not soaking every bullet on the map!

It's almost like there's a reason standing completely still and/or directly in enemy fire is a stupid idea!

 

 Manually choosing to ignore the rest.

 

14 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Also am I the only person who has noticed that a lot of new players are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to tell about how bad the Nerf is?

... and I'm going to assume it's most the Mobile players too.

The ones who are likely coming from games with a much more "Pay to Win" mindset.
Mobile Players- with their time with Gacha and Extreme FOMO tactics- have such a loose wallet because they expect their purchases to win every time.

So when a Warframe comes out that utterly demolishes balance? That's NORMAL for them.
When they see a 80$ Price Tag? That's CHEAP for them.
If you say they need to put in some actual effort to understand the game? They'll go into a feral rage and deny it all.

Thanks DE, I warned everyone this was gonna happen!
Oh well, I hope the extra """Credit Caches""" _{(Mobile Players)} were worth it!

 

13 hours ago, Xahn said:

And then I took Dante out of the oven and gave him a spin. He was instantly my new favorite frame. I loved the way he played, the constant use of his abilities, the options for his abilities. I used them all, and used them constantly. I started farming mirror defense to get mods for his book, I actually bumped my lich up to finally get around to killing him so i could start farming for a hound, to pair with Dante for armor strip.

I have to ask, mainly out of morbid curiosity:
What exactly does Dante give that no other Warframe can for ya?

Because from the way I see you describing it, it's entirely possible to just like... play Ember for functionally the same kit.

 

10 hours ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

because Warframe players have Stockholm syndrome and despite saying "Oooh I'll stop playing now! This is the last straw!", they always just come back. No matter what, time and time again.

I'd argue it's more that Warframe itself has no competition coming anywhere close to it.

You got ULTRAKILL, maybe-- but that's a singleplayer game. That would only fit a niche of the audience... and even than, it's not inherently as updated as a live service game.
Than you have Duet Night Abyss on the horizon, but that might not better. It looks promising, but it also looks like it'll have some flaws.
I originally dropped the game to play PSO2, but SEGA killed that off faster than I'd like to admit.

I feel DE is- unfortunately- governed by the fact that their game is a god damn miracle to exist.
... which is also why a lot of Warframe players would be FURIOUS if it goes to some unbalanced, unhinged direction.

So I get your anger, but it's really a difficult game to match.
That being said, if all else? I REALLY hope Duet Night Abyss gives DE something they have to contest against if all else.

 

7 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

You literally tell them what you want and they do the opposite tell them Dante is fine and they nerf it to the ground even after saying were just making a slight tiny tweak to him and then boom massive nerf

A lot of players wanted Dante to be toned down. His Overguard made the game way too easy for most and ruined any kind of fun they can have.
Tragedy having Line-of-Sight is probably one of the least dangerous nerfs they could've given him. Especially if they iron out the problems with it.

Granted, if you want to blame DE for not hearing the basic obvious things? They're certainly to blame for that.
Reb's own response outright was "Lmao, we won't" to Auto-Melee getting a toggle. Something I've been wanting for a good while now.
^{... and before anyone gets any stupid ideas? No, I want it because it's bugged on me a number of times making missions unplayable. Precision is just the extra reason.}

 

6 hours ago, Siic07 said:

Tomorrow it will be proof whether you should continue trusting in Warframe or not.

Buddy, the Heirloom pack exists.
That notion went out the window looooong before that even.

 

6 hours ago, Kreepergeek645 said:

LoS is just bad, you could have just nerfed Tragedy's range and/or damage. Making it LoS basically made it a worse Dark Verse.

4 hours ago, iiReapzx said:

Add "Removal of LOS on Dante" to your list of plans for the week. It is completely unneeded and uncalled for.

3 hours ago, DeadS1lence said:

LoS has always been unreliable.

Reducing it's damage was my initial thought, but after I saw the Line-of-Sight nerf? I figured that would be better IF they properly implemented it.
While they didn't, I was surprised that they caught on that it was broken as quickly as they did.

The problem with the LoS as it stands? It's not accounting for enemies behind other enemies, much like Vulcan Blitz or Fire Blast.
Both of which could greatly benefit a change in that regard.

... but LoS isn't a true issue, in fact-- it's kinda like that "range" nerf you mentioned.
You have to line yourself up and POSITION yourself in a spot to the maximum amount of targets. This isn't anything new.
If you just reduce the range? You just neuter it more for those who could already use it well.

A bad system can be detrimental, but removing something that can be reclaimed is far worse.

 

5 hours ago, kalmeida said:

There are games where balance matters, competitive shooters like Valorant or Overwatch, that require regular nerfs and buffs to maintain balance. Warframe is not that, you cannot look at a frame like Limbo or Excalibur and realistically pretend that they are on the same level as Saryn or Mesa.

Do I have to point to the sign? PvE games can use balance just as much as PvP games.
Players cannot be trusted to handle themselves when it comes to balancing.

... also, you say Excal can't match Saryn or Mesa? I could not only outplay them using Excal-- but do it in style.
Limbo is a different case, he can easily hit damage cap numbers... but you to know how he does so.
If you were to say something Banshee? Maybe, but I also know Banshee is lagging behind.

Say what ya will about DE, they are not immune to doing incredibly stupid things.
Every game- no matter what it is- can use balancing. Even purely singleplayer games that have further updates planned can use balancing.
A balanced game plays a lot more fun than an unbalanced one, because usually if it's intentionally unbalanced? It's accounted for and integrated in some way.

It's like if you played Final Fantasy and "God Slaying Slash" in the first dungeon.
Obviously every part of the game would become a joke if you can just instantly obliterate everything.
Warframe isn't Final Fantasy, sure-- but it's more than just killing hordes of fodder enemies.
"Mindless slaughter" can still have some form of balance, look at Dynasty Warriors (or similar games) and you'll see what I mean.
^{Here's some Fire Emblem: Three Hopes footage as an example: https://youtu.be/K1TpOsf4Iv0?si=3TbosCALg-gIL6dH&t=342}

5 hours ago, kalmeida said:

Powercreep is bad, but in his unnerfed form was Dante powercreep? 

Was he faster than Wu Kong or Titania?, better at staying alive than Revenant? Did he have a faster kill rate than Saryn? Was he better at going to level cap than Octavia or a better support than Citrine or Wisp or better at CC than Nova?

• Wukong and Titania may be fast, but a player good at parkour can often be just as fast.
• With as much Overguard as that? Yes, actually. I'd argue that since it can't be easily dispelled, unlike Mesmer Skin.
  • That and it's a very easy ability to cast and affects the entire squad. Even pets and NPCs like Arbitration Defense Targets.
• Tragedy. If that's not enough for you, a single Second Encumber primer will be.
• Level cap is a metric DE has said before that don't like using. Neither do I either since anything that completely shuts enemy AI like Octavia will survive ANY content.
  • Even still, I don't know how you'd "nerf" Octavia without making her 100% irrelevant.
  • She's an odd case that I'd argue is the ONLY Warframe that needs a full "rework", replacing every ability of hers.
• ... Dante's Support is just as big- if not bigger- than both of them. Status Immunity+Durability with Overguard in just one buff and even Energy Orbs/Fire Rate with Noctua. 
  • Wisp provides a Fire Rate buff and Health Regen, but that's about it for "support". Hardly useful considering we have Shields.
  • Citrine can give Boosted Status Chance, Damage Resistance and Health Regen... but the latter two rarely help with Overguard in play.
    • Status Chance can even be boosted by the Paragrimms, even boosting Status Damage in the process. Outdoing Citrine as a result.
• To be fair, Nova isn't exactly the peak of "Crowd Control".

Even if he doesn't come close in some departments, he's certainly excelling in MULTIPLE departments.

5 hours ago, kalmeida said:

I started playing Warframe around the Trinity prime access and one of the things that convinced me to give the game a try was coptering, I heard how DE was a company that looked at what could be considered an exploit and instead of removing it like most game devs would they polished it and added it to the game.

Warframe was also a wildly different game back than. Polar opposite if I may be so inclined.

You could afford such leaps and bounds of power to integrate a mechanic like that back than.
... but it was also because it provided the basis for a form of parkour that is wildly loved to this day. _{(Well, maybe less with certain players roaming around. Eugh.)}
It's not because it was an exploit that it was implemented, it was because such a mechanic could be vastly expanded upon. Making gameplay fresh.

Granted, I'll agree that DE isn't the same company as back than.
I look at things like Channeling and question why it was removed without properly making it work.
Originally, that function was supposed to be the early-forms of a "Special Attack Gauge" you see in most games. DE called it a "rage mode", but you get the idea.
... and than they just... axed it.

I believe they axed it because everybody mocked it. They said "It was useless" and "Nobody would miss it" because of it's extreme energy costs.
Yet nobody realized it was ACTUALLY because we had no mods to elaborate on that system with, very few Melees actually used the system at all.
Kinda wanna smack a younger me upside the head for doubting it if I ever did, I'll admit.

I didn't fully understand what it was at the time and never knew what it could become. 
Thankfully, I have knowledge of how the game works now and I do think it would've been far greater if they kept it.

 

3 hours ago, Zomiku said:

We don't understand these changes, especially when we have other dominating, disruptive, and automated frames, as well as frames that are dominating-disruptive-automated simultaneously.

Wanna hear a fun fact? We have those other options because y'all wont let those go either.
Seriously, at this point it's less "We have Revenant, so it's fine!" and more "Oh, it's ANOTHER one to the pile."

When they try to nerf Wukong or Revenant? People throw a hissy fit like they are now.
The core difference between people who nerfs vs. the endless gluttony of "buff only" players is that the former are looking long-term.

 

3 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

The first good update and frame in a while where it actually felt fun and exciting .

I'd argue it's not much different from any other "Echoes" update. A lot of people said the same thing for a lot of updates prior.
They often don't mean it though, because a lot of players haven't exactly bothered or have been around for those updates.

While I really enjoy Deep Archimedia? _{(mainly because it's the first mode in a loooooong time that has actually made me gauge danger in a mision)}
It's only one part of this update, the rest is kinda.... eh?

We got Dante, who was overtuned to hell on his release. Otherwise mildly interesting kit if you ignore the stats outright.
We got Sanctum Disruption and Omnia Fissures... but nothing we haven't seen before.
We got some new augments, which are nice-- but nothing to focus on with an update.
... and I genuinely can't remember much else without looking, which probably goes to show it's relevancy.

I don't know what people see in Dante that requires them to be so vehemently defensive about it.
It's honestly kinda concerning, because it feels like another Styanax situation.
DE """"""nerfs"""""" on tiny aspect of a Warframe and suddenly the entire community grabs pitchforks.
God forbid we have something get balanced around here, folks.

 

2 hours ago, tartcactus said:

So, the reason for nuking Dante into the ground was to pacify the Chroma Mains. Good to know. Let us know when you decide you want to have people play Dante again.

No, it was because people don't like some schmuck entering the squad and wedging a crowbar into an invincibility cheat code, forcing it on permanently.
Just because other players suck doesn't the rest have to be dragged down. Usually is the ideal anyway.

Dante is perfectly playable still. Hell, I'd argue you could subsume his 2 off and still survive Steel Path plenty fine. Shields are a thing, you know.
There are people who have jump-kicked their way through the entire Star Chart.
There are people who have cleared Warframe without jumping once.
There are people who have taken Dragon Keys into Steel Path and clear without abilities.
There are people who actively sit down and run Steel Path Level Cap for literal days on end. _{(Often using things like Mag. You can Mag at the start of the damn game, buddy.)} 

You could use Dante on Steel Path and be just fine. No skill needed.
We DO NOT need players shoveling Overguard onto us.

2 hours ago, tartcactus said:

How can you even try to excuse this travesty as simply,"not implemented to our standards"? You totally rushed an untested, ham-fisted: half baked kneejerk nerf/nuke if a brand new, and for once in a long while, fun to play frame all just to placate one small segment of the community and, surprise, surprise, it bit you squarely on the rear. I still want a refund for what I spent for Dante, because he is no longer what I paid for. You asked for continued honest feedback, You have just got it.

Hey, DE? One bit of feedback, don't refund this fella.
Instead, just lock 'em to Dante. Show 'em that he's still perfectly viable.
^{Obviously, I'm being facetious here... but hot damn do these people feel like they deserve no refunds.}

As for LoS? It's a way to limit the ability without needing to nerf it's stats outright.
Position yourself once in a blue moon. If you die, you die. It's Warframe, you'll live.
^{Also, there's a certain market strategy called "looking into it". I'd say "look into it", but that'd be paradoxical! So I'll just pretend you get it, since there's no helping ya.}

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Its like the herloom situation you half to be louder and more aggressive if you want them to listen

... I mean, they didn't really "listen". They gave their usual schtick of "Oh, don't worry guys. We understand."
They won't do it again, if they do? It'll be under a different name or a slightly different ruse.
This isn't the first time, nor is it the last.

Granted, the same thing was being done with Wukong's clone needing ammo. _{(Which is barely a nerf imo)}
THAT one had a lot of people (like me) calling out people demanding reverts.
All while saying: "What the hell are you asking for? Your insatiable lust for power got you this, yet you have the audacity to ask for more?!"

 

25 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

I don't think this really solves the problem for any frame that actually has shields. What other method do we have to strip off our shields to gain energy when there's a bunch of Overguard in front of it?

While I do understand your questioning with this, it's more along the lines of "Health being damaged just isn't a thing you can do anymore. Shields are more likely to be putting the player in a danger state." so it fits the mod more now.

... but yeah, it's hard to make use of that when you have to burn through 50k Overguard that's refusing to go down.
I feel this is one of those situations where DE really can't do much about it because of how demand constant buffs.

Honestly, could you imagine an enemy had access to the same tools we do?
I can't, not even with Spectralysts copying our sets and abilities because DE manually restricted what they can use.
^{https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Spectralyst in case you never seen one.}

Point is, we're so overpowered as is. The reason enemies need to be "nuked" at all is because none of them stand even a mote of a chance.
We've gone unchecked, to the point where the biggest enemy is ourselves. A bit of irony there, huh?

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

2 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

A lot of players wanted Dante to be toned down. His Overguard made the game way too easy for most and ruined any kind of fun they can have.
Tragedy having Line-of-Sight is probably one of the least dangerous nerfs they could've given him. Especially if they iron out the problems with it.

Not if your playing sp he was purfect for sp could protect allies and smack enemies even at the highest level 

Line of sight is horrible iv tested it 50 times in game and the similicrum and it is crap inconsistent and broken most of the time 

 

[StrawberrySparrow]

33 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

I'd argue it's more that Warframe itself has no competition coming anywhere close to it.

You got ULTRAKILL, maybe-- but that's a singleplayer game. That would only fit a niche of the audience... and even than, it's not inherently as updated as a live service game.
Than you have Duet Night Abyss on the horizon, but that might not better. It looks promising, but it also looks like it'll have some flaws.
I originally dropped the game to play PSO2, but SEGA killed that off faster than I'd like to admit.

I feel DE is- unfortunately- governed by the fact that their game is a god damn miracle to exist.
... which is also why a lot of Warframe players would be FURIOUS if it goes to some unbalanced, unhinged direction.

So I get your anger, but it's really a difficult game to match.
That being said, if all else? I REALLY hope Duet Night Abyss gives DE something they have to contest against if all else.

I appreciate your reply and I agree completely. I think most of my anger comes from the fact that I didn't even get to experience the frame at all before he already got nerfed. Similar thing happened with Styanax a whileback, though that was a misunderstanding back then. I'm mostly jaded to stuff like this, since I've been playing since damn near day 1 off and on multiple accounts. But every now and then, the anger hits and it's like all the feelings I would have felt over months and months happens all at once. So I probably overreacted, but still if it isn't defeating as all hell to see the devs make a change and see the community cry (whether for good or for bad I really can't in good faith say) again and again just to get ignored (again, for better or worse). I'm just sick of it I think. I take breaks from the game for long periods, come back, enjoy it, but it always comes back around to this. Complete with a huge tangent on the forums, haha. Dunno, we'll see how things go. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Xahn]

8 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

I have to ask, mainly out of morbid curiosity:
What exactly does Dante give that no other Warframe can for ya?

Because from the way I see you describing it, it's entirely possible to just like... play Ember for functionally the same kit.

a kit more involved than constantly toggling 2 and occasionally hitting 3 or 4? Ember's rework didn't appeal to me, and i haven't played her in years now. its not about the  'functionality' of his kit. or its power. plenty of frames are room clearers. plenty of frames are incredibly hard to kill, and a good number of them are both. I could play any one of the frames that have been released (except qorvex, he came out while I was burnt out and i never built him). if i wanted to be unkillable i could play revenant, If i wanted to kill every enemy on the map as fast as possible i could whip out saryn. if i wanted to do both I could play kulervo. If i wanted a weapon platform i'd hop on  wukong. i've done all of that. i've done it for 3000 hours over the better part of a decade. Dante felt different. he was a breath of fresh air. now he's a stale fart. just another frame, with broken abilities not worth using because guns do it more reliably. just another boring tank to shoot things from. If i wanted that i'd go back to playing inaros, and end up burnt out again in a week and a half. 

[FreeWilliam]

39 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

 

... but yeah, it's hard to make use of that when you have to burn through 50k Overguard that's refusing to go down.
I feel this is one of those situations where DE really can't do much about it because of how demand constant buffs.

They could solve it by letting those mods trigger through shields (a minor but real problem before, no reason not to fix it) as well as overguard, or (BETTER) just let us get damaged a little through overguard and have it only block a percentage of damage if we have those mods equipped. (or in general, which would make Overguard better overall IMO).

There's lots of ways to solve it. They can do a lot about it.

[Binket_]

42 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Not if your playing sp he was purfect for sp could protect allies and smack enemies even at the highest level 

I was literally just watching someone get so bored with Dante in Steel Path that they cut off their stream early.
Quite literally a "I am so demotivated with boredom" kinda thing.

Should I suggest dodging? Just a jump or two? Use those legs, you got two of 'em for a reason!

 

29 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

I think most of my anger comes from the fact that I didn't even get to experience the frame at all before he already got nerfed. Similar thing happened with Styanax a whileback, though that was a misunderstanding back then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbc3whtZrnA
May I suggest a video of a similar caliber?

I think it's comical that this bug could happen and create some true clownery.
... but I also realize it's a bug and it was bound to get fixed.
I think it's best to learn from them, even if you couldn't experience.
It helps shapes understanding of future mistakes.

33 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

So I probably overreacted, but still if it isn't defeating as all hell to see the devs make a change and see the community cry (whether for good or for bad I really can't in good faith say) again and again just to get ignored (again, for better or worse). I'm just sick of it I think. I take breaks from the game for long periods, come back, enjoy it, but it always comes back around to this

On one hand, I get that. I'm equally as frustrated and demotivated seeing people like this, I've been around for a long while too.

... but on the other hand? Most of my frustration stems from the players refusing to acknowledge that things work a certain way for certain reasons.
It drives me nuts especially because the information IS out there.

37 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

Dunno, we'll see how things go. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

No problem! I just hope you get some new builds to try out or get some inspiration to make your own.
Heard about some involving Phage lately, so I'm gonna see what I can do with that.

 

39 minutes ago, Xahn said:

he was a breath of fresh air. now he's a stale fart. just another frame, with broken abilities not worth using because guns do it more reliably. just another boring tank to shoot things from. If i wanted that i'd go back to playing inaros, and end up burnt out again in a week and a half. 

As far as I'm aware, that playstyle hasn't exactly changed.
So... if it's strictly the stats holding him back, what is the functional difference?

That's the thing, LoS doesn't change Tragedy. You just need to angle yourself right, someone with 3k hours should easily manage that.
Overguard is nothing neccessary for Dante. You _(should) and I both know that Shields are plenty enough if push comes to shove.
Pageflight, Wordwarden, Noctua and the usage of Dark/Light Verse is effectively unchanged.

... from what I'm getting here, there is nothing here that affects you. You are mad for reasons you cannot comprehend.
After checking your profile? You only got 2k hours, so unless you got more hidden somewhere else? I'm inclined to believe you're flubbing some details.

 

46 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

or (BETTER) just let us get damaged a little through overguard and have it only block a percentage of damage if we have those mods equipped.

Honestly, while I'd like that for most Warframes?
It hurts ones like Kullervo the most.

To be honest though, I figure at this point? Just making Overguard take damage from more sources would be fine.
Than make Kullervo just have zero Shield Regen, while Recompense bolsters his (now available) Shields.

The whole issue to begin with was that DE added a fourth Health Type.
When Health, Armor and Shields was already stupid hard for them to balance as is...
... suddenly having the idea "We should have a fourth" like a dysfunctional family is a great idea?
Shocker that it doesn't pan out. Well, we're here now. Gotta sort it out...

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

7 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

I was literally just watching someone get so bored with Dante in Steel Path that they cut off their stream early.
Quite literally a "I am so demotivated with boredom" kinda thing.

Probably board of how horrible he is right now he was extremely fun back when he was in his purfect state the only thing people really complained about was his OG not letting them get energy or vex armor which could have easily been fixed by Giving allies less og or making it so that the loss of og acts as the loss of shealds or health  

But instead of that they nerfed him to the ground making him boring and horrible as well as adding LOS which is one of the most crap moves they could have done 

[Binket_]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Probably board of how horrible he is right now he was extremely fun ba--

No, dude literally said "Nah, this is too broken. I'm out" and turned their stream off. Wasn't even a joke.
Let me make this clear: You do not want the OG version back, you just want to be brainless.

Nerf or no nerf, you'd play him for a week (or less) and get bored.
Going back to whatever TikTok videos (or alternatives) are trending this time.

I am going to stop talking to you.
Simply because there is nothing left to it.
Play Warframe, don't play Warframe. I don't care.
 

[ConOngVang]

40 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

No, dude literally said "Nah, this is too broken. I'm out" and turned their stream off. Wasn't even a joke.

Anything can be broken and boring if used on non-SP low level enemies. Just because i can just walk around with Day Equinox 4 up on level 10 enemies doesn't mean it's broken.

[Xahn]

1 hour ago, Binket_ said:

 

As far as I'm aware, that playstyle hasn't exactly changed.
So... if it's strictly the stats holding him back, what is the functional difference?

That's the thing, LoS doesn't change Tragedy. You just need to angle yourself right, someone with 3k hours should easily manage that.
Overguard is nothing neccessary for Dante. You _(should) and I both know that Shields are plenty enough if push comes to shove.
Pageflight, Wordwarden, Noctua and the usage of Dark/Light Verse is effectively unchanged.

... from what I'm getting here, there is nothing here that affects you. You are mad for reasons you cannot comprehend.
After checking your profile? You only got 2k hours, so unless you got more hidden somewhere else? I'm inclined to believe you're flubbing some details.

 

 

Right,  first of all while the playstyle hasnt changed, theoretically. But the reliability has. It feels bad now to cast and get your ultimate blocked by a bump in the terrain. Its no longer useful compared to just shooting them.

Second of all, not everyone wants to rely on shields and shield gating with every damn frame.

Third, dark verse now uses the new broken LoS mechanic where you block your own ability with your frame.

In short, it actually does effect Dante, and how it feels to play him, and thats why i am unhappy. Do not tell me i am mad for reasons i do not comprehend  . I know damn well why i am mad.

And finally, you should know that for the better part of the games life span it only counted in mission time in the in game counter. It did not count time spent in the orbiter, relay, dojo, or even loading screens. Kindly never accuse me of lying again.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

1 hour ago, Binket_ said:

No, dude literally said "Nah, this is too broken. I'm out" and turned their stream off. Wasn't even a joke.
Let me make this clear: You do not want the OG version back, you just want to be brainless.

Nerf or no nerf, you'd play him for a week (or less) and get bored.
Going back to whatever TikTok videos (or alternatives) are trending this time.

Dante is not broken and never was he was the purfect frame at the time for regular and sp and did infact need some input and skill if you wanted to be good with him  purfect down to the last detail  and im never brainless when I play warframe I keep every bit of my surroundings in my head enemy count, objects, everything 

Nope I actually wanted him to be one of my main frames for a while maby a year or two and to be honest I dont watch tik tok or much of anything besides my shows on Netflix usually 

 

[0ddxty]

I am so, so exited that they’re looking into self damage. It should always proc effects that are triggered by damage or healing when you heal health lost back. I have high hopes for Archon Intensify, Rage, Combat Discipline, etc. Now time to debate buying Chroma Prime. 

[BloodyPrimeSkull]

1 час назад, Binket_ сказал:

No, dude literally said "Nah, this is too broken. I'm out" and turned their stream off. Wasn't even a joke.
Let me make this clear: You do not want the OG version back, you just want to be brainless.

Nerf or no nerf, you'd play him for a week (or less) and get bored.
Going back to whatever TikTok videos (or alternatives) are trending this time.

I am going to stop talking to you.
Simply because there is nothing left to it.
Play Warframe, don't play Warframe. I don't care.
 

You pathetic creature, stop writing. You're a crazy, tick-tock-watching guy. You write a lot, but your brain is like a nut, you don't get the point at all why everyone is angry. This #*!%ing frame was sold for REAL money, people have the right to get what they paid for, not what they have now, working through BROKEN mechanics. Please don't be a degenerate. Wipe the S#&$ out of your mouth, you don't need to eat S#&$.

[ConOngVang]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Dante is not broken and never was he was the purfect frame at the time for regular and sp and did infact need some input and skill if you wanted to be good with him  purfect down to the last detail  and im never brainless when I play warframe I keep every bit of my surroundings in my head enemy count, objects, everything 

Nope I actually wanted him to be one of my main frames for a while maby a year or two and to be honest I dont watch tik tok or much of anything besides my shows on Netflix usually 

 

Realistically speaking the only way you can get bored with Dante is to play him as a nuke frame which means that you ignore pretty much half of his kits and he's not even good at it compare to those like Saryn or Gauss who can still nuke the map without having to see the enemies while Dante has to mark enemies with Dark Verse (which already had LoS requirement) twice or more for Tragedy to deal any meaningful damage and as of right now it feels really bad when enemies that he marked with Dark Verse escape Tragedy because Dante himself blocking LoS.

[AwwHeckASnek]

2 minutes ago, BloodyPrimeSkull said:

You pathetic creature, stop writing. You're a crazy, tick-tock-watching guy. You write a lot, but your brain is like a nut, you don't get the point at all why everyone is angry. This #*!%ing frame was sold for REAL money, people have the right to get what they paid for, not what they have now, working through BROKEN mechanics. Please don't be a degenerate. Wipe the S#&$ out of your mouth, you don't need to eat S#&$.

This argument is an asinine one, balance patches should not be halted under the consideration of profitability ever. I think the nerfs, especially LoS changes, on Dante were unnecessary and heavy handed, but to act like you are entitled to a frame never receiving a balance change because you spent money on it is silly and ill-conceived.

[BloodyPrimeSkull]

2 минуты назад, AwwHeckASnek сказал:

Этот аргумент глупый: исправления баланса никогда не следует останавливать из соображений прибыльности. Я думаю, что нерфы, особенно изменения LoS, на Данте были ненужными и тяжелыми, но вести себя так, будто вы имеете право на то, чтобы фрейм никогда не получал изменения баланса, потому что вы потратили на него деньги, глупо и непродуманно.

It's one thing when these are normal balance edits, rather than adding broken mechanics when the frame blocks its attacks with its own body.

[AwwHeckASnek]

3 minutes ago, BloodyPrimeSkull said:

It's one thing when these are normal balance edits, rather than adding broken mechanics when the frame blocks its attacks with its own body.

I don't disagree that it's a horrible mechanic that's never worked properly or consistently in the history of warframe, and should not have been applied to Dante at all. I'm just saying the financial argument is a bad one.

Edited April 8 by AwwHeckASnek

[ConOngVang]

2 minutes ago, BloodyPrimeSkull said:

It's one thing when these are normal balance edits, rather than adding broken mechanics when the frame blocks its attacks with its own body.

Thing is that this is not even a normal balance patch, no balance patch should be coming just after a week of release. Not even competitive PvP games do this kind of kneejerk nerf, let along a PvE focus game like Warframe.

[AwwHeckASnek]

3 minutes ago, ConOngVang said:

Thing is that this is not even a normal balance patch, no balance patch should be coming just after a week of release. Not even competitive PvP games do this kind of kneejerk nerf, let along a PvE focus game like Warframe.

Don't disagree they dropped the ball immensely on the handling of Dante, they rushed out a heavy handed panic adjustment before he ever got a chance to settle into the meta or provide any useful usage data beyond "Hes new and people are playing the new Warframe".

That said, the "This frame was sold for money so changing it is false advertising" is a really really bad way to look at things.

I'd like to see the patch reverted and them let him sit for a while before adjustments so that people actually know where he falls into the cast, he certainly wasn't outperforming meta staples. He was only "dominant" because he was the shiny new release.