PC PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6

[captn_Pat]

weird, pointing out the lack of experience of this guy with dante or casting damaging abilities in general gets your post deleted, but i saw it and checked ingame, 1k kills with dante, thats almost a (one) 15 mins of survival. 

So anyway, i tested again, 20 mins sp omni survival murmur, first dante got 1,4k kills/ 950 skills used (wtf) used mostly tragedy, weapon only for mechs and troublesome outliers that refused to die.

after that loki with a innodem melee influence dagger 90% of the time and shooting stuff in the air 1,8k kills/130 abilities used. fyi i could have done this for hours because it was very chill and loki basically untouchable. Very small sample size and i was just casually doing stuff like getting some vocas, killing mechs etc.

[dierubikdie]

If you're giving Rotorswell some love, you should fix it so we can aim up when Rotorswell is active. At the moment, if Rotorswell is going and I try to aim my weapon at airborne enemies, her skirt takes up the entire screen:

[Nero.DMC]

17 hours ago, SamaelWar said:

Did DE paid you to say such a things? They only wait for a person like you with post like yours to not do anything more to revert his LoS changes of Tragedy. Dante is used now mostly for OG buff, his LoS on Tragedy even the big range is so buggy and can't hit almost anything... They have just to revert that skill and even if they want to shrink it that range, as they mentioned it the last Dev short. Don't you see how many people want his revert on the skill. I am from that people as well, because there is no point on spending plats and money on something new when it's gonna be nerfed right away after the release...

he is just dumb and farming people reaction in order to get attention, i would advice to just ignore him

 

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So you feel he plays worse, fine. But then dont go and say the following aswell.

Because it is indeed a subjective opinion. Otherwise we wouldnt be of a different opinion or have results of people not noticing a difference. Since what it comes down to is that he feels different, because people played him in a different way to others. 

there is no subjectivity in it, you cant feel he is better or more confortable now than before, you can feel like he is "good enough" now but its undeniable and imposible to say he was not better before unless somehow you think hitting less enemies feel better for you, but lets be realistic even if you were you would be just an statisticual anomaly, 99.9999% of people know he played better before and was a lot more fun and on top you could play him in different ways.

LoS just sucks as a balancing mechanic, it should never have even be considered for a detonator ability is as simple as that, they were lazy and decided to "balance" it that way, but in reality the ability is equally strong as before just much more annoying.

[tartcactus]

My request for refund has been ignored for 9 days. I ran the customer service department for Motorola for 10 years. I would have fired any of my reps that ignored a customer ticket for that long. For every customer who tells you they are leaving your service, you lose 100 to 1000 more who will not tell you at all. 

[WeaverDuck]

I am yet to meet a single person that played as Dante since day one and is willing to say "damn, really good changes, wish we could get some more" without sarcasm.

[Phoenician]

On 2024-04-14 at 5:55 AM, WeaverDuck said:

I am yet to meet a single person that played as Dante since day one and is willing to say "damn, really good changes, wish we could get some more" without sarcasm.

Because nobody can genuinely say he is either in a balanced, better or fun state.

I decided to try yet again to see if I can salvage some fun from him and did alerts last night on grineer tiles tilesets and I was actually laughing at just how bad and inconsistent his 3rd and 4th are. It's like the game just uses a dice roll for if an ability hits an enemy or not, regardless of visibility.

Several hundreds of energy spent for a 1-6 roll lol.

[WeaverDuck]

1 hour ago, Phoenician said:

Because nobody can genuinely say he is either in a balanced, better or fun state.

I decided to try yet again to see if I can salvage some fun from him and did alerts last night on grineer tiles tilesets and I was actually laughing at just how bad and inconsistent his 3rd and 4th are. It's like the game just uses a dice roll for if an ability hits an enemy or not, regardless of visibility.

Several hundreds of energy spent for a 1-6 roll lol.

Yep, its quite amusing that they got so much good feedback, actuall change ideas that make sense like getting rid of damage on tragedy (which does nothing anyway), making him be able to detonate only his statuses, or even reducing range and still opted for changing how you use the frame (or making his 4th unusable in some cases), making one shot from your broken endgame weapon (pick any, really) much more efficient, than using costly and more time consuming 3 ability combo.

And thats even without waiting for his hype to tone down. "You are all using new frame? We have something for that!"

LoS on Dark Verse was good choice, it worked from the start, you couldn't just 360 everything through walls, but forcing LoS on detonator that works only on enemies you have to prime usually with ability that already has LoS restriction is plain stupid. I bet they will decide to break Dante even more with more ridiculous OG changes and further "improvements" to never working properly LoS system.

I want some LoS on Saryn, having that frame in your team ruins fun from playing.
 

[Phoenician]

24 minutes ago, WeaverDuck said:

Yep, its quite amusing that they got so much good feedback, actuall change ideas that make sense like getting rid of damage on tragedy (which does nothing anyway), making him be able to detonate only his statuses, or even reducing range and still opted for changing how you use the frame (or making his 4th unusable in some cases), making one shot from your broken endgame weapon (pick any, really) much more efficient, than using costly and more time consuming 3 ability combo.

And thats even without waiting for his hype to tone down. "You are all using new frame? We have something for that!"

LoS on Dark Verse was good choice, it worked from the start, you couldn't just 360 everything through walls, but forcing LoS on detonator that works only on enemies you have to prime usually with ability that already has LoS restriction is plain stupid. I bet they will decide to break Dante even more with more ridiculous OG changes and further "improvements" to never working properly LoS system.

I want some LoS on Saryn, having that frame in your team ruins fun from playing.
 

If they start throwing in LoS on frames like Saryn, I wonder how many Dante change defenders will change their tune.

I don't want LoS put on other frames or frames to be made un-fun as a way to balance them, I don't want other frames to suffer because DE did this to Dante, I simply want LoS to be removed from his 4th because it's punishing and dumb.

He was fun, VERY fun at the start, there was no need to change him and start this inferno and DE still have time to recover before the reputational hit is unrecoverable and financial hit is unpleasant and raises eyebrows.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, captn_Pat said:

So anyway, i tested again, 20 mins sp omni survival murmur, first dante got 1,4k kills/ 950 skills used (wtf) used mostly tragedy, weapon only for mechs and troublesome outliers that refused to die.

You are aware that is impossible right? At most you'd end up with 316 or so tragedy uses, which in the end is also very unlikely. Around 180 casts go to your buffs over those 20 minutes if you have atleast some duration, more if you have baseline or shorter, at which point you are looking at a bit over 200 casts spent on buffs. After that a third can be tragedy, but that is highly unlikely since it would mean only perfect rotations.

I did the same mission just now and the kills were roughly the same at 1400 something, but I only used 720 skills. Not that murmur survival is a good place to test anything since it has horrible flow for a survival due to terrible map layout for such a mode, with so many different access points and elevations. Those 20 minute kills are usually 10-ish minute kills elsewhere.

12 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

there is no subjectivity in it, you cant feel he is better or more confortable now than before, you can feel like he is "good enough" now but its undeniable and imposible to say he was not better before unless somehow you think hitting less enemies feel better for you, but lets be realistic even if you were you would be just an statisticual anomaly, 99.9999% of people know he played better before and was a lot more fun and on top you could play him in different ways.

LoS just sucks as a balancing mechanic, it should never have even be considered for a detonator ability is as simple as that, they were lazy and decided to "balance" it that way, but in reality the ability is equally strong as before just much more annoying.

That you say you feel it means it is subjective. You've even been over it earlier as you claim you dont care about the power, just the QoL and how he feels. In reality he is better since he is more consistant now compared to any point prior since his release while also dealing more damage. I also dont hit less enemies. Sure I might not deal a pointless amount of damage to someone 50m away behind a wall, but that doesnt matter one bit since I still need to spend energy or ammo to kill it in the end. It's also odd you claim you dont care about his damage and power when you sit here and complain about hitting less enemies. That just doesnt add up.

At release he had no LoS on Tragedy, but Dark Verse had old LoS mechanics. This resulted in the same inconsistancy that all other frames have with the old LoS.

LoS was added to Tragedy, which didnt work as it should. Worse than release clearly.

LoS was fixed for Tragedy, Dark Verse still had the old. Consistancy comparable to release because Tragedy LoS actually works.

LoS was fixed for Dark Verse aswell, the whole kit is now more consistant than at release, since no part of it uses the old LoS system.

So the only difference is that you cannot play in a style where you rely on killing behind actual walls. If that style was not used, then the current system works better than the old, if you used that style it will feel worse. His damage output is also intendedly better now, since they gave us the debuff that was never ment to be there in the first place aswell, which also benefits a close quarter playstyle better than one trying to wipe things through walls, since it controls the birds better, plus they buffed his floating Noctua. If you are on the move now, which seems to be your biggest gripe with the LoS addition, Dark Verse suffices more than enough to wipe enemies as you move.

As you say "played better", "more fun", "play in different ways", those are all subjective observations and opinions. I'm still having the exact same fun with him that I had at release, playing him the same way I did but I now deal more consistant damage since none of the skills are suffering fromt he old LoS system, I also deal more damage since two parts of the kit got minor or massive buffs.

[Karyst]

2 hours ago, WeaverDuck said:

Yep, its quite amusing that they got so much good feedback, actuall change ideas that make sense like getting rid of damage on tragedy (which does nothing anyway), making him be able to detonate only his statuses, or even reducing range and still opted for changing how you use the frame (or making his 4th unusable in some cases), making one shot from your broken endgame weapon (pick any, really) much more efficient, than using costly and more time consuming 3 ability combo.

And thats even without waiting for his hype to tone down. "You are all using new frame? We have something for that!"

LoS on Dark Verse was good choice, it worked from the start, you couldn't just 360 everything through walls, but forcing LoS on detonator that works only on enemies you have to prime usually with ability that already has LoS restriction is plain stupid. I bet they will decide to break Dante even more with more ridiculous OG changes and further "improvements" to never working properly LoS system.

I want some LoS on Saryn, having that frame in your team ruins fun from playing.
 

And this is why people using Dante now that didn't use him before or only used before as weapon platform will never understand our points of view. It's like explaining the ultra rich guy the idea of washing used clothes when he only wears brand new clothing everytime he changes.

[captn_Pat]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SneakyErvin:

You are aware that is impossible right? At most you'd end up with 316 or so tragedy uses

I am of cause not oblivious to the fact that a lot of those spells are rebuffing, what those numbers tell you though is that he is very, very spammy and still gets outperformed by loki with a dagger (with a mod that doesnt give a f about line of sight, melee influnce).

I chose this very kpm suboptimal place because i like to go there recently and have reference points for lots of frames, i can still surmise the performance of a frame there, its all relative. Guess what a dual icor saryn does to this place with way less button presses.

[Karyst]

4 minutes ago, captn_Pat said:

I am of cause not oblivious to the fact that a lot of those spells are rebuffing, what those numbers tell you though is that he is very, very spammy and still gets outperformed by loki with a dagger (with a mod that doesnt give a f about line of sight, melee influnce).

I chose this very kpm suboptimal place because i like to go there recently and have reference points for lots of frames, i can still surmise the performance of a frame there, its all relative. Guess what a dual icor saryn does to this place with way less button presses.

I think it does something toxic.

[captn_Pat]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Karyst:

I think it does something toxic.

tbh its kind of glorious on how many levels the enemies are done for, corrosive, viral, electric and toxic. While armor stripped, everywhere, 2 buttons every 40 seconds or so (excluding the slashyslashy bit ofc). All those status effects going through walls, on their own without babysitting if there is a coffee mug in the way. 

[Karyst]

16 hours ago, captn_Pat said:

tbh its kind of glorious on how many levels the enemies are done for, corrosive, viral, electric and toxic. While armor stripped, everywhere, 2 buttons every 40 seconds or so (excluding the slashyslashy bit ofc). All those status effects going through walls, on their own without babysitting if there is a coffee mug in the way. 

I mean, that's just like the resonator. Anyways, I just want to say, that when I saw Dante's collection, it not containing a signature syandana that only comes with purchasing his collection, I felt averse to buying it, considering I bought or was gifted past 4 new Warframe's collections and looks like it paid off. In the past, I would rush to get new gear as it drops, because normally it takes a while for things to be reviewed and hilarious bugs that sometimes occur are too good to pass considering that once they are patched , they mostly don't reoccur. The comparison between Dante and Saryn are also on point since Saryn used 1 and her 4 causes her 1 to deal more damage while Dante does the very same thing except to use his 4, he has to cast 3 twice for it to roll 4 into Tragedy. Let's just see what happens I guess, perhaps spending time to try other sources of slash in combination with Tragedy might be worthwhile.

Edited April 15 by Karyst

[Nero.DMC]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That you say you feel it means it is subjective. You've even been over it earlier as you claim you dont care about the power, just the QoL and how he feels. In reality he is better since he is more consistant now compared to any point prior since his release while also dealing more damage. I also dont hit less enemies. Sure I might not deal a pointless amount of damage to someone 50m away behind a wall, but that doesnt matter one bit since I still need to spend energy or ammo to kill it in the end. It's also odd you claim you dont care about his damage and power when you sit here and complain about hitting less enemies. That just doesnt add up.

"more consistent"? wtf, its imposible for him to be more consistent, he is 100% more inconsitent. He also does not do more damage... that is plainly incorrect. YOU do hit equal or less enemies, its imposible to hit more than before... and again, if i marked an enemy and he is 15m just around the corner i should be able to detonate him simple as that. And as i stated i dont care if they remove the base damage, i want to hit marked enemies. (if you use a weapon then its 1000% irrelevant to the discussion...)

now read this very slowly till it manages to get into your head: if they reduce his damage in order to make him hit enemies that i already marked, that's fine, if they reduce base area in order to make him hit enemies marked, that is fine, that's because i dont mind them reducing his damage output as long as the LoS mechanic is gone and stop annoying me b/c i just stop targeting my camera at an enemy, or its inconsistency and dependency on Settings to perform better.

Quote

At release he had no LoS on Tragedy, but Dark Verse had old LoS mechanics. This resulted in the same inconsistancy that all other frames have with the old LoS.

LoS was added to Tragedy, which didnt work as it should. Worse than release clearly.

LoS was fixed for Tragedy, Dark Verse still had the old. Consistancy comparable to release because Tragedy LoS actually works.

LoS was fixed for Dark Verse aswell, the whole kit is now more consistant than at release, since no part of it uses the old LoS system.

So the only difference is that you cannot play in a style where you rely on killing behind actual walls. If that style was not used, then the current system works better than the old, if you used that style it will feel worse. His damage output is also intendedly better now, since they gave us the debuff that was never ment to be there in the first place aswell, which also benefits a close quarter playstyle better than one trying to wipe things through walls, since it controls the birds better, plus they buffed his floating Noctua. If you are on the move now, which seems to be your biggest gripe with the LoS addition, Dark Verse suffices more than enough to wipe enemies as you move.

No, because Dark Verse was used for marking enemies, you have to cast it twice to cast tragedy anyway, so you run mark run mark and detonate, this worked great, he was not inconsistent b/c any enemy targeted by your Dark verse was going to be detonated. (Also old dark verse has a pretty good LoS check, same as now tbh i did not notice much change for dark verse LoS check)

The mumbo jumbo about Dark Verse LoS improvements is irrelevant, it worked just fine before as well, never had any issue marking enemies with dark verse ever.

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As you say "played better", "more fun", "play in different ways", those are all subjective observations and opinions. I'm still having the exact same fun with him that I had at release, playing him the same way I did but I now deal more consistant damage since none of the skills are suffering fromt he old LoS system, I also deal more damage since two parts of the kit got minor or massive buffs.

No, you simply can't play him as before, that's not subjective, so you can OBJECTIVELY play him in less ways than before.

You are one person, most people clearly had more fun with him before... you probably had more fun with him before too but for some reason feel the need to defend bad changes.

No part of his kit got any buffs from release, pageflight had the status damage on release, they removed it on the nerf patch. they nerfed OG (wich is pretty much irrelevant) and the LoS from Dark Verse was completely fine from day 1 (no one ever complained about it being inconsistent or not hitting stuff it should hit).

I think you are just making stuff up at this point, you are either lying or very confused on many points.

Edited April 14 by Nero.DMC

[Levanthan]

On 2024-04-12 at 7:36 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, pretty much.  He's one of about 5 frames I regularly play in the last 6 months, but the entertainment value I get from him is basically conceptual, visual and audio design, and beefy innate tank.  All four of his abilities have issues that I think might have been addressed if he'd come out at a different time.  Really strikes me as a parallel with Caliban's release situation.

Although to end on a more cheerful note, I'm much happier with Pillar after this week.  Still could use improvements, but the enhanced LoS basically fixed what to me was its most frustrating problem.

Yeah, December releases don't have a good track record. The LoS changes on Pillar has made it feel a lot better tho, I entirely agree.

[Gandalf_White]

Just popping in to say that tragedy's fun factor is still tragic. At least the ability is aptly named and reflects the player's experience when using it.

Edited April 15 by Gandalf_White

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

"more consistent"? wtf, its imposible for him to be more consistent, he is 100% more inconsitent. He also does not do more damage... that is plainly incorrect. YOU do hit equal or less enemies, its imposible to hit more than before... and again, if i marked an enemy and he is 15m just around the corner i should be able to detonate him simple as that. And as i stated i dont care if they remove the base damage, i want to hit marked enemies. (if you use a weapon then its 1000% irrelevant to the discussion...)

now read this very slowly till it manages to get into your head: if they reduce his damage in order to make him hit enemies that i already marked, that's fine, if they reduce base area in order to make him hit enemies marked, that is fine, that's because i dont mind them reducing his damage output as long as the LoS mechanic is gone and stop annoying me b/c i just stop targeting my camera at an enemy, or its inconsistency and dependency on Settings to perform better.

That is still about your playstyle. You let those enemies pass out of sight before detonating. There is no reason for that since they are in LoS for you long enough to 334 them. He is more consistent unless you relied on the playstyle you mention. If you play him around the limitation he already had at release, which is Dark Verse, which has a shorter range than Tragedy along with angle and LoS requirements aswell, he will perform better now. Since you will land more Dark Verse debuffs due to it having new LoS mechanics and you will deal more damage due to your buffs aswell.

Which again just means it is your playstyle you want to have things catered to. That just results in a subjective opinion. You are also exaggerating how impactful the LoS is, since we are practically talking full walls here that blocks. Most enemies, not even netracell culverins with weakpoints intact, survive your Dark Verse long enough for you to even get to a point where you would need to detonate something through a wall. So what type of content you've ran or run that even makes it an issue I have a hard time figuring out.

15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

No, because Dark Verse was used for marking enemies, you have to cast it twice to cast tragedy anyway, so you run mark run mark and detonate, this worked great, he was not inconsistent b/c any enemy targeted by your Dark verse was going to be detonated. (Also old dark verse has a pretty good LoS check, same as now tbh i did not notice much change for dark verse LoS check)

The mumbo jumbo about Dark Verse LoS improvements is irrelevant, it worked just fine before as well, never had any issue marking enemies with dark verse ever.

But he was since Dark Verse was the actual bottleneck in several cases of "missing" the target, which is not the same LoS as it has now which was fixed and improved in the recent patch. You know those videos of tragedy missing? That was Dark Verse missing, so there was nothing to detonate. People made sure to test this after those initial knee jerk videos right after the improved Tragedy friday patch. So you missed just as much back then, but even in the bloody open, since targets simply wouldnt get primed due to minor things aswell as Dante blocking Dark Verse. Now you have two LoS reliant skills where practically nothing blocks them aside from straight up LoS being fully blocked.

15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

o, you simply can't play him as before, that's not subjective, so you can OBJECTIVELY play him in less ways than before.

You are one person, most people clearly had more fun with him before... you probably had more fun with him before too but for some reason feel the need to defend bad changes.

No part of his kit got any buffs from release, pageflight had the status damage on release, they removed it on the nerf patch. they nerfed OG (wich is pretty much irrelevant) and the LoS from Dark Verse was completely fine from day 1 (no one ever complained about it being inconsistent or not hitting stuff it should hit).

I think you are just making stuff up at this point, you are either lying or very confused on many points.

Yes you can, except in some ways. That makes him subjectively worse since it fully depends on your personal playstyle. For me the changes had no impact aside from the positive, since I got more self buffs and a more reliant Dark Verse. Tragedy still does the same since I use it the same way as I did before since I funnel enemies with Dante the same as I do with every other frame and have done for years due to gun, melee and frame play mixed on a regular basis.

I dont think they are bad changes, since they've resulted in better gameplay for several other frames aswell because their LoS have also gotten improved significantly.

Pageflight getting the status damage is a buff since it was never ment to be part of the kit, wordwarden getting increased damage is a buff, OG went even, since it gained higher reg, which was doubled (matters as little as the reduction of the other parts of the skill). And clearly people did complain about Dark Verse, they just didnt notice it until they started to claim it was Tragedy suffering from it. Which is hilariously odd in itself.

18 hours ago, captn_Pat said:

I am of cause not oblivious to the fact that a lot of those spells are rebuffing, what those numbers tell you though is that he is very, very spammy and still gets outperformed by loki with a dagger (with a mod that doesnt give a f about line of sight, melee influnce).

I chose this very kpm suboptimal place because i like to go there recently and have reference points for lots of frames, i can still surmise the performance of a frame there, its all relative. Guess what a dual icor saryn does to this place with way less button presses.

So you dont like spammy frames? Does Loki provide OG to others, debuffs to enemies and self buffs passively? No he doesnt. You could also use Dante as a weapon platform like you did with Loki and use the same amount of skills and likely get a better kpm/kps since enemies wont act drunk due to stealth at times. Most frames are surpassed by melee influence atm, so comparing a frame with that vs a frame using their kit isnt really saying much about a frame.

Any frame that can buff influence will do better than a frame that cant, and if you add Dual Ichor into the mix you end up at ridiculous levels of performance over kit based damage from a frame. For instance, influence on Kullervo nearly renders Curse completely pointless, Dual Ichor with influence on Kullervo completely renders Curse useless. And I dont think people realize how silly Dante can get as an infuence frame either together with his birds and his floating book. Book goes brrrrrr.

[tartcactus]

Dante is still Tragically awful.

Post nerf Dante Tenno goes bleeeeeeehhhhhhh!!!!

[captn_Pat]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb SneakyErvin:

Does Loki provide OG to others, debuffs to enemies and self buffs passively?

Loki can make teammates invincible, status proc like mad with decoy and is invisible (and invincible).

-So you dont like spammy frames?

i do, when they are effective at it, wich was the whole point of my argument, I dont like weapon platforms, i prefer skills to do the killing,

 

Edited April 15 by captn_Pat

[tartcactus]

Refund request open 10 days with no response.

[Karyst]

2 hours ago, captn_Pat said:

Loki can make teammates invincible, status proc like mad with decoy and is invisible (and invincible).

-So you dont like spammy frames?

i do, when they are effective at it, wich was the whole point of my argument, I dont like weapon platforms, i prefer skills to do the killing,

 

Yeah Loki just CC the whole map causing enemies fighting each other and even tho you can get hit by cross-fire, chances are slim since only enemies capable of shooting are the ones with OG on them that resists disarm, then on top of that, your boy makes your health grey

[Gaxxian]

So... DE, when did you said that you were removing LoS from Dante?

[Nero.DMC]

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That is still about your playstyle. You let those enemies pass out of sight before detonating. There is no reason for that since they are in LoS for you long enough to 334 them. He is more consistent unless you relied on the playstyle you mention. If you play him around the limitation he already had at release, which is Dark Verse, which has a shorter range than Tragedy along with angle and LoS requirements aswell, he will perform better now. Since you will land more Dark Verse debuffs due to it having new LoS mechanics and you will deal more damage due to your buffs aswell.

Which again just means it is your playstyle you want to have things catered to. That just results in a subjective opinion. You are also exaggerating how impactful the LoS is, since we are practically talking full walls here that blocks. Most enemies, not even netracell culverins with weakpoints intact, survive your Dark Verse long enough for you to even get to a point where you would need to detonate something through a wall. So what type of content you've ran or run that even makes it an issue I have a hard time figuring out.

No, my playstyle did NOT REMOVE any other playstile, it was released with both playstyles being completely posible and fine, now only 1 of them is posible for no reason whatsoever.. beside annoying people, your oposition to have more playstyles makes 0 sense, more optiosn = better, this do not affect anyone that did not play that way, yet you are defending the change as if they were somehow exclusive with each other.

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But he was since Dark Verse was the actual bottleneck in several cases of "missing" the target, which is not the same LoS as it has now which was fixed and improved in the recent patch. You know those videos of tragedy missing? That was Dark Verse missing, so there was nothing to detonate. People made sure to test this after those initial knee jerk videos right after the improved Tragedy friday patch. So you missed just as much back then, but even in the bloody open, since targets simply wouldnt get primed due to minor things aswell as Dante blocking Dark Verse. Now you have two LoS reliant skills where practically nothing blocks them aside from straight up LoS being fully blocked.

Literally nobody on the whole forum complained about it, but it was already buffed so its great we get a "better" version better LoS consistency is a good thing when LoS its attached to the correct abilities.

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Yes you can, except in some ways. That makes him subjectively worse since it fully depends on your personal playstyle. For me the changes had no impact aside from the positive, since I got more self buffs and a more reliant Dark Verse. Tragedy still does the same since I use it the same way as I did before since I funnel enemies with Dante the same as I do with every other frame and have done for years due to gun, melee and frame play mixed on a regular basis.

"Yes you can, exept in some ways." ====> this implies that you CAN'T literally you are agreing with me. you can't play him in some ways that you could before simple as that, if you agree you dont need to try and disagree for the sake of disagreeing, you dont have to try and disagree with the stuff you agree with. 
The fact is having LoS or not does nothing against your playstyle and make mine imposible to enjoy, so the solution is simple remove LoS and we BOTH can enjoy the gameplay we love, its not like removing LoS suddenly makes your playstyle imposible.

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I dont think they are bad changes, since they've resulted in better gameplay for several other frames aswell because their LoS have also gotten improved significantly.

Completely irrelevant as to him having LoS they can improve LoS and remove them from Dante's tragedy, nothing makes those exclude each other.

Quote

Pageflight getting the status damage is a buff since it was never ment to be part of the kit, wordwarden getting increased damage is a buff, OG went even, since it gained higher reg, which was doubled (matters as little as the reduction of the other parts of the skill).

Pageflight was released that way, there is no question, they nerfed him removing that buff and added it to him later as an official part of the skill, there was no buff from release as to now, he was his strongest when he was released.

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And clearly people did complain about Dark Verse, they just didnt notice it until they started to claim it was Tragedy suffering from it. Which is hilariously odd in itself.

Please link 3 post, maybe you can find 1 in the whole internet, but link 3, you wont be able to find 3. I only saw praises as to how dante was extremely fun before the nerf.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

Dante is very strong, possibly even OP; he's absolutely one of the best support frames in the entire game. Hopefully DE will look at how Overguard interacts with DR abilities, because at the moment having a Dante on your squad makes DR by way of armor, abilities, and etc. pretty pointless since none of those work on OG.

The folks insisting that Dante is utterly ruined and trash-tier clearly haven't been playing with his full kit, or even paying attention to the fact he has six other abilities that are well worth using in addition to the nuke. If they didn't insist that the only worthwhile part of his kit was his non-LOS nuke, while ignoring all the rest of it... well. Dante is clearly a support frame, and not intended to be the second coming of Saryn. As is, he's got a good arsenal of buffs, and a strong nuke. Whining for more and insulting/attacking anyone who doesn't cater to your wants doesn't convince anyone to agree with you.

The people upset about the performance nerfs sorry, I mean the QOL nerfs aren't willing to be convinced that Dante is anything other than destroyed/ruined/dead/nuked from orbit/etc./etc. because it's hard to reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place. It doesn't matter how OP Dante was and still is, because even the slightest change from his previous version, the low-effort nuke, requires more thought and effort and planning on their part. It doesn't feel as good to play because now they have to work the slightest bit harder for a rush to their burned-out dopamine receptors.

Anyway, Dante is fine. No one who disagrees with that statement will ever be convinced of this, and they will never be satisfied with his current state. They will never stop complaining about it, until they try him again in a few months and discover that he's not as bad as their biases made them think he was, or maybe they'll watch their favorite community contributor talk about how awesome Dante is and decide that okay, he's alright. 

But they'll never stop to think that maybe, just maybe, in all their outrage and indignance at being forced to play the game, that they were wrong from the start.