Oh, hi, Mirror Defense!

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

17 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Ok, sure. Then run it like normal and/or do Netracells.

Ok, I gladly will. But then the reward should not be locked behind using the randomizer gear. We should still be getting the full reward for using any gear of our choice.

 

...aaaaaaand we're going in circles again...

[Shodian87]

6 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Ok, I gladly will. But then the reward should not be locked behind using the randomizer gear. We should still be getting the full reward for using any gear of our choice.

 

...aaaaaaand we're going in circles again...

You are making the game harder to be guaranteed to get better rewards. But if you don't want to you can do regular necracells, which does have the same reward pool, just not much of a guarantee. I think it balances out just fine.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

8 minutes ago, Shodian87 said:

You are making the game harder to be guaranteed to get better rewards. But if you don't want to you can do regular necracells, which does have the same reward pool, just not much of a guarantee. I think it balances out just fine.

Harder? No. Frustrating? Yes.

The whole thing can be "cheesed" through by using a Necramech or literally someone "carrying" you. Gear randomizer is not difficulty. It's an annoyance that most people prefer to simply go around to just get the reward and be done with it.

Also, Netracells is not an alternative. 5 Netracell runs per week = 5 rewards, that's it. But if you do EDA(using 2 out of 5 Netracell runs) you get 5 rewards from these 2 "keys" by doing EDA + still have 3 extra Netracell runs left on top. So no. Netracells are not and alternative - they yield less rewards.

And DA/EDA is all about the rewards, not the experience. You go through it once, get the full reward and don't touch it again until the reset. So yes. It's all about the reward, NOT the game mode itself. You don't care for difficulty, so stop pretending and lying to yourself (let alone to us), please.

 

Edited April 16 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[PR1D3]

30 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Ok, I gladly will. But then the reward should not be locked behind using the randomizer gear. We should still be getting the full reward for using any gear of our choice.

 

...aaaaaaand we're going in circles again...

AND like what Public said you're delusional if you think you're getting locked out of rewards. But then again we're back in the eternal WF community and content circle of you all demanding the little crumbs of challenge we get to get lobotomized to the standard of everything else and full access to rewards sans any effort whatsoever. Y'all complained about arbitrations, complained about the enemy scalling in the Vallis, hell you people still complain about the New War and how Veso's puzzles whooped your asses.

14 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Harder? No. Frustrating? Yes.

The whole thing can be "cheesed" through by using a Necramech or literally someone "carrying" you. Gear randomizer is not difficulty. It's an annoyance that most people prefer to simply go around to just get the reward and be done with it.

Also, Netracells is not an alternative. 5 Netracell runs per week = 5 rewards, that's it. But if you do EDA(using 2 out of 5 Netracell runs) you get 5 rewards from these 2 "keys" AND still have 3 extra Netracell runs on top. So no. Netracells are not and alternative - they yield less rewards.

And DA/EDA is all about the rewards, not the experience. You go through it once, get the full reward and don't touch it again until the reset. So yes. It's all about the reward, NOT the game mode itself. You don't care for difficulty, so stop pretending and lying to yourself (let alone to us), please.

 

Again, with the head cannoning of the purpose behind the mode. I, we, wholly reject your delusions. Hell, the fact that you guys are having trouble cheesing it is why you're complaining about it. Otherwise, you would just do whatever go to/stock standard cheese that was put out and call it a day. You say it's not hard but I bet it's really is for you probably due to you don't have a youtuber showing you what to do, step by step, with what you rolled that week.

So again, start experimenting or make some friends who will carry you (if that "loophole" is so good but you won't cause that would require some level of effort). Yeah you guys complained about Circuit and they gave you even more decrees that made the mode easier. They gave you more leeway with DA whether you want to admit it or not and IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ALL. Cause when you get right down to it you people want it all with no effort. Placate you enough and eventually you'll have an issue with the modifyiers and you'll want that to get the ol' yeller treatment. 

Edited April 16 by PR1D3

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

4 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

AND like what Public said you're delusional if you think you're getting locked out of rewards. But then again we're back in the eternal WF community and content circle of you all demanding the little crumbs of challenge we get to get lobotomized to the standard of everything else and full access to rewards sans any effort whatsoever. 

Forcing us to use randomized gear to get the reward = locking out of several rewards behind it. If we refuse the randomized gear, we are locked out of several rewards. And no sane person would refuse rewards. So people just grab the randomizer gear and leech in pubs, use "carry" services(friends or not) or use Necramechs to literally avoid the whole randomizer. So why even have it in the first place?

The only ones who are delusional here are the people who defend this.

Edited April 16 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[LemuriaLight]

55 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Ok, sure. Then run it like normal and/or do Netracells.

This is a game, its reasonable to want all the rewards

From what I've seen, not many people are complaining about the actual difficulty, but rather that EDA is unfair, poorly balanced, frustrating and generally not enjoyable with alot of that due to RNG loadouts and taking away player agency

We are providing feedback right now, it is the dev's job to review and make the game more enjoyable

 

[NOsPL]

1 hour ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Forcing us to use randomized gear to get the reward = locking out of several rewards behind it. If we refuse the randomized gear, we are locked out of several rewards. And no sane person would refuse rewards. So people just grab the randomizer gear and leech in pubs, use "carry" services(friends or not) or use Necramechs to literally avoid the whole randomizer. So why even have it in the first place?

The only ones who are delusional here are the people who defend this.

You are not being forced to use OPTIONAL modifiers. You are not being punished for refusing to use them. Randomized pool doesn't have any unique loot locked behind it. It is an additional reward for people that are willing to make any arsenal work in very difficult conditions.  

Edited April 16 by NOsPL

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

37 minutes ago, NOsPL said:

You are not being forced to use OPTIONAL modifiers. You are not being punished for refusing to use them. Randomized pool doesn't have any unique loot locked behind it. It is an additional reward for people that are willing to make any arsenal work in very difficult conditions.  

When the whole point of the game mode is getting the reward, locking half of it behind using a randomizer... is not optional. And yes, the whole point of DA/EDA is the same as Sortie/Archon Hunt - to get the reward. You just go in, do it, get reward and don't touch until the reset happens.

I'm sorry that you fail to understand this simple fact.

[Nelsconey]

3 hours ago, LemuriaLight said:

I have a varied and robust set of frames and weapons and I do not find it enjoyable

I (and alot of other people) don't feel being forced to use heat sword and harpak enjoyable for a lvl 400 mission that already difficult

Nor am I incentivized to forma weapons that are worthless and I will never use in the other 99.99% of content

This mode is not for you then.   

This mode is for

The player that has come to a point where using the meta stuff is BORING.  

 The player that has SP builds for almost every Frame. 

The player that has builds on the weapon that some think are "worthless"

The player that is swimming in resources.  Slots, Forma, etc....

The player that collects almost everything.  

The player that had no trouble with Duviri Circuit

[Nelsconey]

3 hours ago, BeefyScar said:

Maybe maybe not. But if you do not voice it, nothing will happen.

Let me give you an extreme example. When aura slot was first introduced, installing aura mod costed you mod points. Yes, correct polarity meant it costed you 4 mod points instead of 7. By your logic, we shouldn't have said anything because nothing will come of it.

This is EDA feedback page. You have every right to post how much you like EDA, while others have every right to post how much they dislike EDA. If that bothers you, quietly hit that back space and leave.

And please. robust set of frames and weapons? what does that even mean? Is having 5 forma'd stug robust enough? who draws that line that a player has a "robust arsenal"?

Let's not make stuff up just for the sake of arguing.

The same complaints were made about the Duviri Randomizer.  

How did that work out? 

It didn't.  They added it again. 

 

A robust arsenal is one that had no problems with Duviri Circuit SP. 

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

3 minutes ago, Nelsconey said:

This mode is not for you then.   

This mode is for

The player that has come to a point where using the meta stuff is BORING.  

 The player that has SP builds for almost every Frame. 

The player that has builds on the weapon that some think are "worthless"

The player that is swimming in resources.  Slots, Forma, etc....

The player that collects almost everything.  

The player that had no trouble with Duviri Circuit

"This mode is not for you" - is where your whole post loses ALL of its possible credibility. Yeah, on the first line already. Good job!

 

An opinion if a fun thing... Everyone can have one, sure! Even if this opinion is clearly wrong.

2 minutes ago, Nelsconey said:

A robust arsenal

[Nelsconey]

11 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

"This mode is not for you" - is where your whole post loses ALL of its possible credibility. Yeah, on the first line already. Good job!

 

An opinion if a fun thing... Everyone can have one, sure! Even if this opinion is clearly wrong.

 

Not really,   Orphix missions are not for me.   That mode is not for me.  I can admit it. 

I stand by what I said who this mode is for though,

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/robust

robust

1. strong and healthy; hardy; vigorous:

2. strongly or stoutly built:

3. suited to or requiring bodily strength or endurance:

4. rough, rude, or boisterous:

5. rich and full-bodied:

6. strong and effective in all or most situations and conditions:

 

[S1lent3cho]

1 hour ago, Nelsconey said:

This mode is not for you then.   

This mode is for

The player that has come to a point where using the meta stuff is BORING.  

 The player that has SP builds for almost every Frame. 

The player that has builds on the weapon that some think are "worthless"

The player that is swimming in resources.  Slots, Forma, etc....

The player that collects almost everything.  

The player that had no trouble with Duviri Circuit

So lets see - 

I have been playing since 2016 and have come to the point where just using tank frames and cheesing everything is boring

I have SP builds for most frames

I build a lot of weapons including some which people think are worthless. I have a blue potato on every prime weapon and a gold potato on every prime warframe

I have been playing for ages and have enough slots forma etc. and most weapons

I have collected almost everything except for a single prime weapon

I had absolutely no trouble with SP Duviri Circuit. In fact I found that there were too many decrees at one point and went to level 4k plus level enemies multiple times

I still absolutely hate DA mode (haven't even got to EDA). Is it the difficulty? No, I am happy to have enemies that don't die when you tickle them. I enjoy the idea of trying new frames which I haven't used as frequently. I can even deal with the weapons being forced on me and having to use squishy frames. I absolutely loved most of the albrecht missions.

What I hate is the fact that they have stuck a mirror defense mission in between for the last two weeks and defense targets already have a problem even in high level star chart missions and they have even removed the shields from that target in this mission. The target is like a wet paper bag getting 6 immortal liminus constantly draining its health and 2 laser hits from an eximus hollow vein kill it cold. Almost 80% of the warframes can't heal the defense objective so I am obliged to use an ancient healer specter because of course the target doesn't heal on its own and none of the warframes I was given an option for in two weeks could heal. It even doesn't heal when you switch from one defense target to another. I am forced to use weapons that even fully modded cannot kill the enemies fast enough due to enemy density so I am forced to use a necramech. Does this even slightly sound like a balanced game mode? Where you are forced to cheese the mission with specific gear (utility gear not just weapons and warframes) in order to mitigate issues?

My biggest grief is with the immortal liminus. Who ever thought that was a good idea? I hated the immortal enemies in the original wolf of saturn six fight and I hate them here as well. If you want to add them at least make them tanky but killable. This just feels like an unfair disadvantage just because DE wants to #*!% with you. If they wanted to turn people off the game, well mission accomplished. You mentioned that once you get the mission done once, you unlock elite deep archimedea but how would I when I can't do it the first time without the objective dying. I love the murmur assassination in steel path. The enemy is tanky enough, deals tons of damage and you can't just no brain the fight. But here, you are relying on RNG not to spawn a hollow vein leech eximus or the defense target is definitely gone bye-bye. If I wanted to play slots, I would do that instead.

[Nelsconey]

14 minutes ago, S1lent3cho said:

So lets see - 

I have been playing since 2016 and have come to the point where just using tank frames and cheesing everything is boring

I have SP builds for most frames

I build a lot of weapons including some which people think are worthless. I have a blue potato on every prime weapon and a gold potato on every prime warframe

I have been playing for ages and have enough slots forma etc. and most weapons

I have collected almost everything except for a single prime weapon

I had absolutely no trouble with SP Duviri Circuit. In fact I found that there were too many decrees at one point and went to level 4k plus level enemies multiple times

I still absolutely hate DA mode (haven't even got to EDA). Is it the difficulty? No, I am happy to have enemies that don't die when you tickle them. I enjoy the idea of trying new frames which I haven't used as frequently. I can even deal with the weapons being forced on me and having to use squishy frames. I absolutely loved most of the albrecht missions.

What I hate is the fact that they have stuck a mirror defense mission in between for the last two weeks and defense targets already have a problem even in high level star chart missions and they have even removed the shields from that target in this mission. The target is like a wet paper bag getting 6 immortal liminus constantly draining its health and 2 laser hits from an eximus hollow vein kill it cold. Almost 80% of the warframes can't heal the defense objective so I am obliged to use an ancient healer specter because of course the target doesn't heal on its own and none of the warframes I was given an option for in two weeks could heal. It even doesn't heal when you switch from one defense target to another. I am forced to use weapons that even fully modded cannot kill the enemies fast enough due to enemy density so I am forced to use a necramech. Does this even slightly sound like a balanced game mode? Where you are forced to cheese the mission with specific gear (utility gear not just weapons and warframes) in order to mitigate issues?

My biggest grief is with the immortal liminus. Who ever thought that was a good idea? I hated the immortal enemies in the original wolf of saturn six fight and I hate them here as well. If you want to add them at least make them tanky but killable. This just feels like an unfair disadvantage just because DE wants to #*!% with you. If they wanted to turn people off the game, well mission accomplished. You mentioned that once you get the mission done once, you unlock elite deep archimedea but how would I when I can't do it the first time without the objective dying. I love the murmur assassination in steel path. The enemy is tanky enough, deals tons of damage and you can't just no brain the fight. But here, you are relying on RNG not to spawn a hollow vein leech eximus or the defense target is definitely gone bye-bye. If I wanted to play slots, I would do that instead.

No lie.  Sometimes I think they are watching us struggle and laughing at it.  

 

I think you're the prime target for this game mode. 
 

I think the stuff you're talking about can be fixed or changed.   Giving the defense more health etc,,,  

I imagine the devs would be more receptive to your complaints vs the player who screams about the Randomizer

[Mr.Holyroller]

On 2024-04-13 at 6:34 AM, desudesudesu said:

I positively like the idea of playing the mode that may require very specific tools to defeat, has a fail condition, is 1 mission deep in the run, in the game mode that emphasises using randomised gear and allows for only 1 gear item skipped to get the all the useful rewards for the week. Are you trying to make people socialise for premades or are you trying to bring some S#&$ from MOBAs into Warframe?

Socalize in an MMO? a groundbreaking discovery.

This weeks Mirror Defense is heavily reliant on being able to nuke the voidrigs to reduce the timer. Its not so bad if you have a Necramech/Arquebex that can handle it

[0_The_F00l]

14 hours ago, S1lent3cho said:

So lets see - 

I have been playing since 2016 and have come to the point where just using tank frames and cheesing everything is boring

I have SP builds for most frames

I build a lot of weapons including some which people think are worthless. I have a blue potato on every prime weapon and a gold potato on every prime warframe

I have been playing for ages and have enough slots forma etc. and most weapons

I have collected almost everything except for a single prime weapon

I had absolutely no trouble with SP Duviri Circuit. In fact I found that there were too many decrees at one point and went to level 4k plus level enemies multiple times

I still absolutely hate DA mode (haven't even got to EDA). Is it the difficulty? No, I am happy to have enemies that don't die when you tickle them. I enjoy the idea of trying new frames which I haven't used as frequently. I can even deal with the weapons being forced on me and having to use squishy frames. I absolutely loved most of the albrecht missions.

What I hate is the fact that they have stuck a mirror defense mission in between for the last two weeks and defense targets already have a problem even in high level star chart missions and they have even removed the shields from that target in this mission. The target is like a wet paper bag getting 6 immortal liminus constantly draining its health and 2 laser hits from an eximus hollow vein kill it cold. Almost 80% of the warframes can't heal the defense objective so I am obliged to use an ancient healer specter because of course the target doesn't heal on its own and none of the warframes I was given an option for in two weeks could heal. It even doesn't heal when you switch from one defense target to another. I am forced to use weapons that even fully modded cannot kill the enemies fast enough due to enemy density so I am forced to use a necramech. Does this even slightly sound like a balanced game mode? Where you are forced to cheese the mission with specific gear (utility gear not just weapons and warframes) in order to mitigate issues?

My biggest grief is with the immortal liminus. Who ever thought that was a good idea? I hated the immortal enemies in the original wolf of saturn six fight and I hate them here as well. If you want to add them at least make them tanky but killable. This just feels like an unfair disadvantage just because DE wants to #*!% with you. If they wanted to turn people off the game, well mission accomplished. You mentioned that once you get the mission done once, you unlock elite deep archimedea but how would I when I can't do it the first time without the objective dying. I love the murmur assassination in steel path. The enemy is tanky enough, deals tons of damage and you can't just no brain the fight. But here, you are relying on RNG not to spawn a hollow vein leech eximus or the defense target is definitely gone bye-bye. If I wanted to play slots, I would do that instead.

I had pretty much the same issues , it can be managed with just the right combination of gear , co ordination with teams and active play, but it's more about luck being on your side for an exilus hollow vein being present or not.

Barring this specific issue where mirror defense itself can really suck (and can be fixed to account for the outliers if proper changes are made) I think the DA/EDA is pretty ideal for what it's trying to do. To push players out of their comfort zone and use everything under the sun to get over certain obstacle. 

It's not perfect , but with the way balance is in the game it's the closest that would be viable without making it super easy.