Strict Nat

[Tempest3]

If it is of any interest to anyone else on here, I found what I *think* was a fix to my issues. I haven't gotten to test with my friends yet, but the Strict NAT warnings went away.

 

I found the IP address of my DSL modem, connected to it and logged in, studied what was there, and then did some googling. Apparently, my modem was set to "Routing" mode, which was causing the UPnP issues... switching it to "Bridge" mode immediately fixed the error message in Warframe (with my router using UPnP and no port forwarding). The modem in question is a ZyXEL 660r from my ISP.

[Tempest3]

I can confirm that the what I posted above did resolve my Strict NAT issues and I was able to play "Private" with a friend who had never been able to see me "online" before. Success!

[James_Reaver]

First off, this game is indeed fantastic, and I hope they continue to fix, improve and expand on it, in that order.

 

EDIT:  I will say, try making sure Windows is up to date, as Warframe does use a number of windows functions.  Their constant development may mean they use RECENT windows functions, so stay on top of things to reduce errors.  I might just help.

 

My router lacks a bridge mode, however I assume that's like forwarding your computer past the router's NAT system, and a huge security risk against anyone who has your IP.  (Don't share, clearly.)

 

So, what I'm getting from my time browsing this thread is that 7% of their userbase at any one time can't connect properly at any given time.  This is a set value, however this value appears to change who it is affecting with some variation.  My friend and I share a router, however we always play together when we're both on and the one person having a strict NAT no-longer matters as long as he connects to the other.  Fine and dandy.  Then consider other networking problems:  In addition to this constant 7% there lies a set % of people who have trouble updating as well, and can't even play solo.  What of them?  Ignoring them, there is a select few (less then 1% I imagine) that can't use their friends list without the Strict NAT issues.  Older routers do appear a predominate factor.  My friend, for example, cannot seam to get any updates with even rare consistancy... making it very hard for him to play this game, and a selection of others.  (Not related to this exact issue, but still an issue all the same.)  So, how large IS the number of users suffering?  More then 7%, given that the errors aren't limited to this one issue.  Is it 9%, 12%?  The value rises as time goes on, seeing as anyone in that initial 7% who quits shouldn't be removed from the list of people with that problem.  (Likewise, people who played just fine without it and stopped could be counted favorably.)  Arguably, this resets with each patch, but if they don't patch the problem, no reset.  Just how much of their userbase has trouble on a regular basis?  I'd like an estimate for my curious mind.

 

Ignoring my rant about statistical curiosities, I was hoping some input here would help with my friends launcher issues, but to no avail.  I'll look elsewhere on the forums for that, but all the same I'm a bit surprised that the admins don't forward more info to the global moderators.  A number of good suggestions, however if none work I will tell my friend he can't update because it's a popular game on the weekend and I got crazy lucky.  XD  Maybe browsing the right topics could get me the right answers.

If all else fails, find some friends who don't have Strict NAT limits and buddy with them... heck, join a clan.  If you can't see 80% of them, remember you are inside the 7% who are having these issues, not that 80% of them are.

Edited August 11, 2013 by James_Reaver

[11.11.11]

First off, this game is indeed fantastic, and I hope they continue to fix, improve and expand on it, in that order.

<snip>

 

Uhm. Thanks for your post. But that 7% figure was a ballpark at best, and it was back before U8, which introduced NAT issues for the majority of people who are vocal about it today. I don't think it's safe to assume only 7% of the current userbase are encountering problems - esepcially when one considers our player count has almost doubled in the past 4 monthes.

 

As for your friend, the only advice I can give is to check that both of you are using seperate port ranges in game (under gameplay settings) and that your router is configured to forward both of them. 

 

You mentioned "keeping windows up to date" - the only windows component that we have any evidence Warframe relies directly on - is Windows Firewall - which it automatically builds and maintains firewall exception rules with. These seem to be refreshed with each major update - so see if your friend can alleivate his issues by opening up the advanced firewall control panel (http://support.myvisionexpress.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/19/45/windows-7--firewall-setup-for-local-clientserver-installation) and confirming that "Allow Edge Traversal" is enabled for all of Warframes entries AND the Evolution Engines entries. 

 

 

Other than that, try running a verification of the game cache via the launcher. Sorry I can't offer more advice, but as you said, this isn't really the place for it. 

 

 

 

Just how much of their userbase has trouble on a regular basis?  I'd like an estimate for my curious mind.

 

 

Out of our clan's 145 or so regularly active members - I know of about 51 or so directly - who have NAT errors on a regular basis. Now we could just be unlucky in our recruitment, but it still serves for a reasonable estimation.

 

 

 

If all else fails, find some friends who don't have Strict NAT limits and buddy with them... heck, join a clan.  If you can't see 80% of them, remember you are inside the 7% who are having these issues, not that 80% of them are.

 

I understand your optimism, and while most players could really stand to benefit from finding a clan - no matter the size - so they at least have a group they can depend on to run missions with.....

 

A) Being in a clan dosn't really help with NAT issues.

 

B) If you are in the so-called 7% - you will very likely still see everyone online - they simply will have issues joining you.

 

C) We arn't having the issues. DE's net-coding is the issue. I, and others, have literally monitored the packets being sent from a remote machine, arriving at my own, traversing my router and NAT - passing my firewall, and being verified. I have also had the same clear check from the remote machine. In fact checking warframes EE.log, shows notifications that successful connections are being established. But then a few lines down the game revokes these connections for no apparent reason. I have literally had days where Warframe reports no errors, simply because I change the range of ports the game is operating on.

 

The long and the short of it is - yes there may be problems with certain configurations. But something wonky is going on with the games net-coding. DE should either attempt to fix it, address it, or move over to a different system. If it takes paying for master servers, so be it. 

 

Extra details:

You seem to be underestimating the effects this issue has on both individuals and the collective. There appear to be various 'teirs' of NAT status. Those on the same tiers can connect. Those on higher tiers can connect to those on lower, but not visa versa. What this effectively does - is migrate the issue to those who don't technically have anything wrong with their connection. Someone with poor NAT can host a game for those with worse than theirs - but they can't host, or join a game with someone who has more open than theirs. The net effect is that people with poor NAT, effect anyone attempting to join them. The clients will receive the "Failed to join session" - even if their NAT is clear, and its the hosts that's causing the problem. 

 

The end result? Even if it was only 7% of the playerbase that had a physical issue with their connection - at least 7 x 4 =28% would be effected directly.

Edited August 11, 2013 by 11.11.11

[GambooWamboo]

Hi Good day!

 

Hoping to get help from Globe broadband subscribers in the Philippines that had issues with NAT Strict and got it resolved by themselves or help from others. I have been bugged by this issue for a week now and I have tried to search for solutions even the ones in the forums, but the problem I am facing is that I am not connected to a router* but straight to a PROLINK H201 modem from the said ISP. So still I tried to check the admin page of the modem and unfortunately it is a bit confusing on my part as a non tech type of person on how to configure it though I check on Google. So I tried calling my ISP tech support and they are asking me to sign up for a "Static IP" service for them to assist me with this concern which I find ridiculous since my other friends in the Philippines are not having this issues with other ISP. Yes, I have thoughts now of transferring ISP but I don't want to go yet to that step if there is a possible solution for this, which I believe there is, but I could be wrong.

 

TL;DR

 

Globe broadband subscriber in the Philippines having NAT strict issue, need help.

 

Thanks for those who would help me on this.

[11.11.11]

 

 

- Will net code ever not be peer-to-peer? http://youtu.be/QlsqKVzLehk?t=38m3s
Steve says the door is always open, we are making optimizations to the net code side of the game to allow for better experiences with hosting and connectivity in general. We talk about the network model a lot, we know people have problems, people are concerned about us ignoring Strict NAT.There are options we can explore to improve this, we know that a certain portion of our audience that we want to play are having problems, we are not done making that code better.

 

 

 

Yay! Acknowledeged, and they're open to big changes if the need ever arises. Huzzah! 

Edited August 15, 2013 by 11.11.11

[Sorez]

 

 

 

Yay! Acknowledeged, and they're open to big changes if the need ever arises. Huzzah! 

 

 

 

Huzzah!

[se05239]

They also mentioned Strict NAT on the latest livestream (12) and Rebecca sent me a message by replying to an old Strict NAT message I sent her.

"We discussed this on the Livestream today, I will try and get in there more now that I have an extra set of hands to assist."

[11.11.11]

They also mentioned Strict NAT on the latest livestream (12) and Rebecca sent me a message by replying to an old Strict NAT message I sent her.

"We discussed this on the Livestream today, I will try and get in there more now that I have an extra set of hands to assist."

 

That's what I was refferencing up there ^ se0, but glad to see Becca got back to you directly. Seems they are willing to start discussing these things again which is a major releif. The lack of contact was what perturbed me the most about this whole saga. 

[Sorez]

Excuse me for a second.

 

*Happydance*

[Ketec]

so...why does warframe ignore perfectly open udp ports - port scanners of diff types confirm that  the 2 ports are open, but Warframe faisl to understand that.

[11.11.11]

so...why does warframe ignore perfectly open udp ports - port scanners of diff types confirm that  the 2 ports are open, but Warframe faisl to understand that.

 

Seems so yeah. 

[11.11.11]

Even worse since last patch -3- 

 

Can't host sessions with people I could 4 days ago. No NAT error on startup but its apparent that's what's happening.

 

Fix naow DE 

[0Pinger]

How about you collate the makes/models of routers that actually Work with WF and let us know.  Then in short term if there is a cheap router we can at least get around the problem, but buying one without knowing is a lottery if its a lemming.

[11.11.11]

How about you collate the makes/models of routers that actually Work with WF and let us know.  Then in short term if there is a cheap router we can at least get around the problem, but buying one without knowing is a lottery if its a lemming.

 

How about they actually make decent net-code that works of a protocol all setups can handle. Instead of relying on a system that is known to be flawed in certain scenarios. Every other game in my steam library manages this just fine. 

 

Perhaps you don't want to admit it DE - but there is inherent stability in central servers. 

 

Also - ran into issues connecting to someone who was online in my friends list today. First time this has happened which leads me to believe this is getting worse not better -__- 

[0Pinger]

I'm after a quick cheap fix. I cannot invite if I try to host or be invited into a team.  So team anything for the Void is impossible for me.  I want stuff from there but being denied it by strictnat.

 

This is the one reason I have not upgraded from Hunter to Master founder as its a game breaker.  So not worth spending another $40 on it, why should I when half the game is denied to me.

[11.11.11]

This is the one reason I have not upgraded from Hunter to Master founder as its a game breaker.  So not worth spending another $40 on it, why should I when half the game is denied to me.

 

Its even more tiresome for those of us that have already paid above and beyond full retail - happily - to support this growing game. And then suddenly been saddled with NAT issues that prevent us from enjoying what content DE has released so far. 

 

I'm literally at the point where I set aside time to play warframe, and am unable too - as I sit down, and spend 2 hours or more simply trying to connect to my squad members. 

[Ralthor]

Its even more tiresome for those of us that have already paid above and beyond full retail - happily - to support this growing game. And then suddenly been saddled with NAT issues that prevent us from enjoying what content DE has released so far. 

 

This

[Shamank]

If i see my friends in game and they are alone in mission, i can't join them

[TDUMP]

I'm using an iPhone 5 for my internet (tethering) and this is the only game I get Strict NAT with....I'm willing to forward the ports but...? How do you forward ports in an iPhone?! LOL. This game is incredibly awesome but if I'm not able to play with my clan or my friends I'm probably going to quit. (Mastery 8, most clan weapons, bought plat, hardcore into the game)

[Duffie]

I don't get the strict NAT error, but still my contacts are always displayed as offline. They aren't getting the strict NAT error either. I tried introducing them to this game, but we gave up as we can't manage to play together.

[jpvi1207]

i hate the strict nat, its so strict!

[thejynxed]

Yeah, as of 9/08/13 getting StrictNAT upon login, even though the ports are open to the correct internal IP address. Funny thing is, I still get the error if I connect directly without any router in between. Level III support @ my ISP says it's nothing on their end, the traffic is passing through unhindered.

 

I do NOT have Windows Firewall enabled, either (useless thing that it is).

 

Edit: I did some digging around in my Motorola Surfboard's config options & logs, ended up the modem needed a soft reboot to apply a new config file. Try checking for such in your own modem, as cable providers frequently update these based upon things like service upgrades, network congestion, etc.

Edited September 8, 2013 by thejynxed

[Csilla]

So, here we go. I love this game, I play it a little bit ( steam says I've got 225 hours. Needs moar.) But suddenly the Strict NAT has arisen.

Okay fine. Go back into my router and check the port forwarding, Nope, shes all good still.
The only recent change was my brother moving out and thus not needing to port forward his pc for teamplay.

But whats weird, is that this started some three week AFTER he moved out, and we had been playing since then.

And now I am stuck is with this lovely Strict NAT that will not go away.

I have since tried changing the ports the game asks for and port forwarding them,
Disabling UPnP on both the router and the game itself.
Even updated the router firmware.

 

All to no solution.

Honestly, I love this game. the longer I watch it the better the game gets.

I loved it enough to put my money into it to the tune of 270$ for the top tier founders pack.

 

I would really like to play the game, but I must say that it gets extremely old to play solo. Very quickly.

[Raelus]

So, here we go. I love this game, I play it a little bit ( steam says I've got 225 hours. Needs moar.) But suddenly the Strict NAT has arisen.

Okay fine. Go back into my router and check the port forwarding, Nope, shes all good still.

The only recent change was my brother moving out and thus not needing to port forward his pc for teamplay.

But whats weird, is that this started some three week AFTER he moved out, and we had been playing since then.

And now I am stuck is with this lovely Strict NAT that will not go away.

I have since tried changing the ports the game asks for and port forwarding them,

Disabling UPnP on both the router and the game itself.

Even updated the router firmware.

 

All to no solution.

Honestly, I love this game. the longer I watch it the better the game gets.

I loved it enough to put my money into it to the tune of 270$ for the top tier founders pack.

 

I would really like to play the game, but I must say that it gets extremely old to play solo. Very quickly.

 

1) Make sure you're forwarding ports to the correct IP. If the devices in your network have changed and your router is using DHCP then your private IP may have changed. Check the IP Warframe is telling you to forward to against the IP you have configured in the router.

 

2) If you're manually forwarding ports, disable upnp and leave it off. Also clear the upnp table in the router.

 

3) Restart all of the networking equipment. This includes both the router and any ISP provided modem.

 

If Strict NAT is a new issue, it's due to a change in your equipment or the sheer need to restart something. If none of these help, post back with a screenshot of the Warframe error and your router's port forward configuration page and upnp table (if that's still enabled). Either myself or someone else with a networking background can probably help given the right information.