I feel like I'm not doing enough damage pls help

[PugPrime66]

i got khora prime pretty recently and what seems like a decent build for her and a stat stick but i just feel like im not doing enough damage. here is the link to the images:  https://imgur.com/a/IwvSUMR (I know kronen isn't good as a stat stick i don't have anything better and i haven't unlocked incarnon)

[Zakkhar]

It should work fine as long as you stay at x12 combo and keep your Accumulating Whipclaw high (max is 350%)

Your mods are unmaxed and your Arcane Fury is unranked, but I guess you do not have anything higher.

I am not a big fan of Slash only Whipclaw. Maybe try going Viral (replace Carnis Mandible and Buzz kill for it). 

Not a big fan of Fleeting either (Streamline is much better), but that shouldnt affect your dmg.

Edited June 14 by Zakkhar

[SolStreak]

it looks like you're going pure slash for your statstick, try using a viral primer maybe? that'll boost the slash status' damage.

you can go for raw damage instead, using corrosive or viral, replacing both of the slash mods.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb PugPrime66:

i got khora prime pretty recently and what seems like a decent build for her and a stat stick but i just feel like im not doing enough damage. here is the link to the images:  https://imgur.com/a/IwvSUMR (I know kronen isn't good as a stat stick i don't have anything better and i haven't unlocked incarnon)

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb SolStreak:

it looks like you're going pure slash for your statstick, try using a viral primer maybe? that'll boost the slash status' damage.

you can go for raw damage instead, using corrosive or viral, replacing both of the slash mods.

as a supplement to that:
not just viral status but also enough combo duration. Because that's what you're after, isn't it?

I had the weapon for EDA this week and have the build:

[_COY_]

5 hours ago, PugPrime66 said:

I feel like I'm not doing enough damage pls help

Like all warframes with stat stick setups, you need some background information to make it work.
Unfortunately you'll need some 'hard-to-get' equipment, too.
Apparently you are MR13 at least, because you are able use Kronen prime.
This is still early in game and you might not have access to some of the stuff I'll mention below.

First of all it is important to understand how exactly stat sticks work for Khora.
Check the stat stick guide and understand which one is a proper stat stick and why.

Second is, to understand HOW this stat stick helps you during mission.
You need to archive 12x combo counter and KEEP it all the time!
You can use naramon focus school for this, or you use "Combo duration" mods on the weapon.
With the arcane Primary Dexterity on the primary weapon, you can add 7.5s combo duration passively.

Third is, you cannot run around and spam your 1 for the rest of the mission.
You need to switch back every 20-30 seconds to re-build the combo counter of your melee back to 12.
Playing with a stat stick is an active setup, you need to maintain your buffs!

(Later in game you might get arcane [Melee Crescendo] which keeps the combo counter on your melee.
But this is a different story with a different play style for long missions - this wouldn't help you right now)

Fourth is to manage your energy; spamming 1 all the time is energy hungry and you need a solution for it.
There are several possibilities, like the mod Equilibrium in your setup for now and  - later in game - Amber Archon shards
I recommend to check some Khora setups on overframe, you'll find a few variants there.
Your Arcane Energize is not build up yet, so even with 160% efficiency  - the energy management is crucial.
Even a companion that drops you energy like Dethcube with 'Energy Generator' mod, or the Sahasa Kubrow with the 'Dig' mod that search for it would help.

As soon as you can use the the Helminth system, there are more possibilities to overcome the energy problem.
My Khora for example exchanged the 3 (Venari) with Verunas "Lycath's Hunt".
Lycath's Hunt will drop me health orbs from enemies if I use melee (Khoras 1 counts as melee)
This gives me energy because I use Equilibrium in my setup.
Additionally I use a primer secondary (Epitaph to spread a lot of status to as many foes as possible)
Play style: get 12x combo, start Lycath's Hunt (3), prime the mobs with Epitaph and kill with 1.

-c0y

Edited June 14 by _COY_
forgot Primary Dexterity

[RLanzinger]

Hey @_COY_, a Little question ... (I'm not a Khora spec.)

Xoris _{infinite combo duration} VERSUS Venka Prime _{x13 combo counter}

After The Deadlock Protocol, we get a Glaive named Xoris which have a trait of infinite combo duration an alternative to Naramon's Focus.

Do it work  well with Khora or does her ability to CC and regroup en ENSNARE is better with Venka Prime x13 combo counter ?!

 

[_COY_]

18 minutes ago, RLanzinger said:

Hey @_COY_, a Little question ... (I'm not a Khora spec.)

Xoris _{infinite combo duration} VERSUS Venka Prime _{x13 combo counter}

After The Deadlock Protocol, we get a Glaive named Xoris which have a trait of infinite combo duration an alternative to Naramon's Focus.

Do it work  well with Khora or does her ability to CC and regroup en ENSNARE is better with Venka Prime x13 combo counter ?!

Venka is not a good choice for stat sticks, you aim for a weapon with high riven disposition (1.3 - 1.5)

copy/paste from the stat stick guide

"Venka Prime is currently the only weapon in the game that can reach 13x combo which makes it sound like a good stat stick,
but it has a really low riven disposition (0.8) and Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds currently cap at 11x as if it has 12x max combo and not 13x."

Xoris (and Tenet melee) combo reset to 0 as soon as you use exalted weapons. (Update 28.1)
Therefore you cannot use them properly

-c0y

Edited June 14 by _COY_

[Zakkhar]

54 minutes ago, _COY_ said:

Third is, you cannot run around and spam your 1 for the rest of the mission.
You need to switch back every 20-30 seconds to re-build the combo counter of your melee back to 12.

Maybe you. I can only assume that by switch back you mean swing with your weapon. If there are enemies to hit x12 combo doesnt drop.

12 minutes ago, _COY_ said:

Venka is not a good choice for stat sticks, you aim for a weapon with high riven disposition (1.3 - 1.5)

No amount of disposition can overcome the base stats modifier that you get from Ceramic Dagger/Magistar and other Incarnons.

2 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

I had the weapon for EDA this week and have the build:

Berserker Fury on a stat stick. No Weeping Wounds. Putting combo duration on a stick is worst possible source of it.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Zakkhar:

Berserker Fury on a stat stick. No Weeping Wounds. Putting combo duration on a stick is worst possible source of it.

stat stick??? where??

my quote:

Zitat

I had the weapon for EDA this week and have the build:

and with his build with the low level arcane there and ruined 1st khora skill, the optimal solution is really to go pure mele.

[_COY_]

3 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

20 minutes ago, _COY_ said:

Venka is not a good choice for stat sticks, you aim for a weapon with high riven disposition (1.3 - 1.5)

No amount of disposition can overcome the base stats modifier that you get from Ceramic Dagger/Magistar and other Incarnons.

The OP stated, that he has no access to incarnon, yet.

-c0y

[Zakkhar]

3 minutes ago, _COY_ said:

The OP stated, that he has no access to incarnon, yet.

You are not responding to OP with this one though.

[Zakkhar]

6 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Quote

I had the weapon for EDA this week and have the build:

Why are you pasting a weapon build in a stat stick thread?

It is most terrible Kronen build I have seen recently. If it was used on different weapon, that has lower Slash ratio, maybe. But here? Massive Viral dilution with PFS, Corrosive dillution with Arcane, no WW, Sac steel without Tennokai, modded for stats that can be obtained elsewhere (combo duration), not modded for stats that cannot be obtained elsewhere (Range).

Unsure what you mean here:

10 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

and with his build with the low level arcane there and ruined 1st khora skill, the optimal solution is really to go pure mele.

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Zakkhar:

Why are you pasting a weapon build in a stat stick thread?

It is most terrible Kronen build I have seen recently. If it was used on different weapon, that has lower Slash ratio, maybe. But here? Massive Viral dilution with PFS, Corrosive dillution with Arcane, no WW, Sac steel without Tennokai, modded for stats that can be obtained elsewhere (combo duration), not modded for stats that cannot be obtained elsewhere (Range).

Unsure what you mean here:

 

The author has seriously looked for a solution, because the topic is not just called:
"I feel like I'm not doing enough damage, please help"

and on the screen you can see which arcanes and mods he can afford!

so how can you seriously talk about stat stick here? do we live on the same planet????

because I played with Khora for a long time and even had her 1st skill on the right mouse button!!!! and that for a very long time!

I can see after a few seconds that stat stick CANNOT work AT ALL! and Khora will have to rely on her good mele weapon............................................

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

To add to @Venus-Venera's first message:

If what you're going for is a bleedout build, do not put any other element on the weapon besides the ones you have, as the addition of a new element will shift the % bias to proc slash, based on the amount of that element you have added*, you seem to know this already due to having two slash mods. You may visualize this by hovering over your status chance on the arsenal where it shows the percentage distribution of your elements, neat recent addition of the game.
_{*Let pets or other weapons add those effects to the enemies instead of your melee to not dilute your damage distribution.}
 

Adding to what @_COY_ has pointed out;

Try and have combo duration so that your combo decays slower. Even if you are using Naramon with Power Spike, higher combo duration means more upkeep time for the highest bonuses. I would recommend you slot in Gladiator Rush or Drifting Contact, since one is cheap and grants  great duration, but the other also gives you the set bonus for a +10% crit chance per combo counter. I run a good amount of my melees with all three gladiator mods.
 

Lastly, this a personal addition, and a bit weird;

Consider using Proton Snap if you want something unusual but potent. Proton Snap grants you 100% toxin damage on your melee weapon and 50% flat status chance to all your melee attacks for 20 seconds after latching onto a wall for 2s (feels like 3).
+50% flat status chance means that if your weapon has 25% status chance (as does Whipclaw), you get 75% status chance.
Consider then having a pet that can attack from a distance groups of enemies, as is a Vulpaphila with Viral Quills if possible, or a sentinel with a Helstrum, for additional procs on your enemies, and then you could use Condition Overload instead of Prime Pressure Point.
Remember that at least 2 different statuses affecting an enemy means you already do pretty much the same damage as with PPP (160% vs 165%).

You are aware of incarnons and rivens so whenever you get to those feel free to come back for suggestions/knowledge.
Good journey Tenno.

Edited June 14 by (PSN)Pablogamer585
Added small note.

[Zakkhar]

So much misinformation. Where do I start?

1. Khora Whipclaw is most powerful pseuoexalted in game. In no world actual melee weapon is better than it. 

2. Using combo duration as mod on your weapon (provided that you already go Naramon) is a waste because it is achieveable in other places:

• Certain Incarnon Evolutions grant combo on eg. ammo pickup
• Arcane Dexterity (Primary/Secondary) add 7,5s each (up to 15s), stack and do not require to ever use those weapons, but Khora Whip kills procs the damage on those Arcanes, if you want to.

3. Proton Snap is additive to other sources of Toxin and Status and it combines the Toxin with whatever you have on the weapon (Viral/Corrosive/Gas). 

4. Condition Overload notably doesnt work on Khora's Whipclaw:

• Whipclaw is not affected by:
  • The equipped melee weapon's stats.
  • Faction Damage Mods
  • Unique mod effects, such as  Shattering Impact,  Healing Return,  Energy Channel,  Vulcan Blitz, and  Power Throw.
  •  Condition Overload
  • ( Primed)  Reach does not affect Whipclaw.
  •  Amalgam Ripkas True Steel does not cause gore.

_{Please guys, do a small research before you post.}

 

[VENDOMINUS]

I would simply suggest to not use a stat stick for khora, for the time being. The difference between a normal stat stick, a stat stick with a riven, a meta incarnon, and a meta incarnon with a riven is exponential. Trying to be as effective as the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option ain't happening at this point in your journey.

On a side note rember that khora's whip has 1/3 punture, 1/3 slash and 1/3 impact each, So any mods for slash would only give you 1/3 of the effect. They only increase the chance that the status you inflict would be bleed and don't increase it's damage at all. For basic stat sticks I would advise you to build viral (cold and tox mod instead of slash) and later invest in 1, rank 0 melee exposure arcane (any probably adapter) when you get there.

Khora doesn't actually care what the stats of her weapon(excluding some incarnons) has , so any weapon with a riven disposition of 5 is a good choice. A riven can equal 3-5 mods in power so it's not something to be ignored. For riven stats looks for Melee damage, elemental damage, crit chance, crit damage.

For a slash based build the Dorrclave has a passive that makes all your whipclaw attack have guaranteed slash after 10 normal kills, so you can use that as a stat stick w/o a riven.

On a side note, you have only 40% ability strength. So you do only 40% of your basic damage, having a maxed rank 5 Molt augmented will increase your damage by 2.5 times. Alternatively you can just replace your Overextended mod fore stretch and add cunning drift later on. Whipcalw doesn't use more that 200% ability range, so there is nor real point in exceeding it. Or do both and increase your damage by 4 times.

Edited June 16 by VENDOMINUS

[Berzerkules]

I used to "main" Khora forever ago. I have not played her much recently but she is still my second most used frame.

IF you want to use her with a stat stick(you always should) as a beginner you are going to want to run Naramon for power spike node so you can reliably maintain 12x combo counter. You are also going to want combo duration, modding combo duration on your stat stick is not ideal. Best case scenario you are going to want to run both primary and secondary dexterity for a total of 20 second combo duration. These are cheap to buy off warframe.market, ~40p total. Once you are comfortable maintaining your combo with dex arcanes you can drop naramon and run whatever you want. You can pretty easily build combo quickly by ensnaring enemies and using regular melee attacks on a large group of enemies.

Above is my basic viral stat stick build that can be used on literally any melee that isn't a combo pausing melee like xoris. I like cc/cd/dmg/- riven for Khora stat stick, those are expensive and most likely out of your reach, As a second roll I like dmg/cd/-. There is a Twin Basolk riven on warframe.market with cd/dmg/- roll for 5p right now. If you don't run a riven swap that slot for spoiled strike or organ shatter. If you really need combo duration you can also run body count or drifting contact in the riven slot. You can run Primed Pressure Point over Sac pressure if you want to save forma. 

You can also run corrosive build if you like by swapping the cold mod for electric. Or you could keep viral and get corrosive by running a R0 melee exposure arcane. Or you could mod for radiation, run nourish subsume over venari for viral and run exposure arcane for corrosive. 

Khora does not need strength for a basic all around build since it's just additive base damage to whipclaw. Losing 60% base damage from overextended is easily made up for by all the other possible sources of base damage like accumulating whipclaw, base damage mods/riven and arcane fury. 

My basic no helminth all around shield gate khora would look something like this. 

Spoiler

You are going to need to run synth fiber(on Venari/companion or both) to pick up health orbs when you are at 100% health to gain energy from equilibrium. You are also going to want to run synth deconstruct for more health orb drops. For companion I suggest something like panzer vulp for mass spread of status effects to maximize health orb drops. A sentinel with Helstrum as a utility primer is also very good. 

One of my favorite builds is spectrorage from Gara subsumed over her 3. On that build you are going to drop equilibrium for spercrosiphon augment. For some stupid crowd control fun you can run arcane eruption instead of arcane fury on this build. 30m knockdowns on every orb pick up so pretty much every time you cast any ability because there are going to be endless orbs from spectrosiphon. 

Spoiler

You can also run Lycath's Hunt from Voruna over her 3 with the same mods as the basic no helminth build if you use a utility primer than can proc 5 status effects. I like a epitaph because it has innate blast and cold . You can build the other 3 statuses as viral, rad and heat with 2 mods for viral, rad from accelerated isotope and a heat mod. That's 5 status effects with 4 mods, The other 4 slots are w/e you want. Companion can also help with applying status effect on this build.

I'm not getting into incarnon stuff, everyone has there idea of what one is the best and I don't want to get into that. 

I could go on and on about Khora. If you have any questions hmu. 

Edited June 16 by Berzerkules

[PugPrime66]

On 2024-06-14 at 8:36 AM, Venus-Venera said:

 

I can see after a few seconds that stat stick CANNOT work AT ALL! and Khora will have to rely on her good mele weapon............................................

I'm very confused, like you tell me it can't work at all and you don't tell me how to fix it but instead you tell me to use a normal melee build instead of a stat stick. it feels like I'm misunderstanding something, please clarify

'

[Venus-Venera]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb PugPrime66:

I'm very confused, like you tell me it can't work at all and you don't tell me how to fix it but instead you tell me to use a normal melee build instead of a stat stick. it feels like I'm misunderstanding something, please clarify

'

How a stat stick looks for Khora - everyone can find out with Google within a few seconds. Hardly anything has changed since then. Except that 1st skill works differently and much worse than before. In the meantime there is Bugged Los Mechanic and Shield Gate with the enemies.
And at the Stat stick Builds, good Gear is assumed. At least usable LVL for Arcanes and mods. Which is not the case with you. And who says that a good mele weapon cannot be a stat stick for Khora ??? Because with the bad DMG scaling, I can easily do without 2+ mods for 1st skill (important tip with viral has been mentioned several times) and have a top weapon for elite single target units. And did you look at Arcane?
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Melee_Exposure
It quickly stacks on 240% Corr because Khora is constantly casting something.

And nobody tells you what to do. As you recognized correctly, you misunderstand a lot here. It was just a suggestion from an experienced player who played with Pimped Khora for many years.

This is also a public area and other players also read this. Otherwise I would have written private message. So I also write for the others ...

Edited June 16 by Venus-Venera

[Zakkhar]

12 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

On a side note rember that khora's whip has 1/3 punture, 1/3 slash and 1/3 impact each, So any mods for slash would only give you 1/3 of the effect. They only increase the chance that the status you inflict would be bleed and don't increase it's damage at all.

They do increase the damage, just not as much as elemental mods, because they only affect Slash portion, not the base damage. Khora whipclaw does 300 base damage, divided equally to Puncture/Impact/Slash. If you apply Buzz Kill (+120% Slash), you totally increase the Slash portion of the damage by 120%, making it 220, increasing your total damage from 300 to 420.

12 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

On a side note, you have only 40% ability strength. So you do only 40% of your basic damage, having a maxed rank 5 Molt augmented will increase your damage by 2.5 times. Alternatively you can just replace your Overextended mod fore stretch and add cunning drift later on. Whipcalw doesn't use more that 200% ability range, so there is nor real point in exceeding it. Or do both and increase your damage by 4 times.

No, no, no. Strenght provides % dmg addittive with other sources. Accumulating whipclaw 350%, Primed Pressure point rank 8 - 135% (maxed 165%), Rank 0 Fury - 30% (maxed 180%). Investing in STR on Khora is a mistake, unless you want to increase your Runspeed boost from Venari. With 40% Str total %dmg affecting whipclaw is 205% at 0 AW stack and  555% at max. Adding 60% more WILL NOT increase the damage by 2,5, but merely 29% at zero AW stack and 11% at max.

Spoiler

it wouldnt even if it worked like you imagine, because it would increase it to 250% of original, not by 2,5.

Only explosion radius is capped on 200% Range, Cast range is not and base one is 10 meters. Main reason we want a lot of Range though, is the radius of the Strangledome, as well as grabbing range of it. Bigger Dome + higher grab range = more enemies caught = bigger Whipclaw damage.

3 hours ago, PugPrime66 said:

I'm very confused, like you tell me it can't work at all and you don't tell me how to fix it but instead you tell me to use a normal melee build instead of a stat stick. it feels like I'm misunderstanding something, please clarify

For yoour own sake, please Ignore the posts from this dude, as well as the dude I am replying above and some other dudes that spread misinformation.

Just replace the Slash mods with Viral damage and you are fine.

PS: Are you using your 4 to grab enemies? If you hit an enemy caught in your 4, the Whipclaw does 50% dmg to everything that is caught as well.

13 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

How a stat stick looks for Khora - everyone can find out with Google within a few seconds. Hardly anything has changed since then.

Outdated information. Pretty much everything changed since then.

Edited June 16 by Zakkhar

[VENDOMINUS]

If redit is to be believed Ability str is a final multiplier to which Accumulating whipclaw is additive.

Avg Damage = 300 * 1.25 * Mod Multiplier * (1 + 0.25 * (Combo Level - 1)) * (1 + Power Strength)

My personal testing somewhat supports it the formula seems correct. It's hard to make concrete experiments when all the synergies are working together, but when everything is working, I am casually hitting for over 78 million damage on first hit while only having 2 normal red shards equipped for str on my build (Still don't have any spare shards for her) so the damage is enough for now. Some day I'll replace them with purple ones for crit damage.

 

I was indeed mistaken in my previous post about it. I used to not run Accumulating whipclaw in favor of getting more loot, so I guess I never needed to notice the specifics. When I got around to making a damage build, I didn't pay too much attention.

Edited June 16 by VENDOMINUS

[Zakkhar]

20 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

I used to not run Accumulating whipclaw in favor of getting more loot, so I guess I never needed to notice the specifics. When I got around to making a damage build, I didn't pay too much attention.

Standard Khora build uses both Auguments.

[Zakkhar]

21 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

If redit is to be believed Ability str is a final multiplier to which Accumulating whipclaw is additive.

Can you post a link to that thread? Only one I found is repaste from somewhere and is 4 year old.

I will test myself, when I get back home from work.

Edited June 17 by Zakkhar

[SpicyDinosaur]

Wait, doesn't the low power strength present a problem for the whip as well? Making a hybrid whip/cage build is very tricky, and suboptimal so I would take off the loot augment, at the least.

 

Plus unless you are farming you want that slot for different mods.

 

OP, do you have the naramon focus ability everyone has mentioned? If not do you have the primary dexterity arcane or something similar? It's possible you'll have to depend on something like body count to keep the combo duration maintenance up, which isn't great but it would be good to know what you personally are working with.

 

Also, the reason people use garbage weapons for stat sticks is mostly because the riven disposition is usually very high. Someone further up suggested a cheap riven they saw, so I'd go with that. A good riven is key to optimizing damage with a stat stick.

[Zakkhar]

20 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Wait, doesn't the low power strength present a problem for the whip as well?

What problem? You get 350% worth of power STR from Accu Whipclaw resulting in 390%. The augument power is independent of your power Str (unlike certain other auguments).

20 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Making a hybrid whip/cage build is very tricky, and suboptimal so I would take off the loot augment, at the least.

Tricky how? I use both auguments and still have a flex slot. Suboptimal, I think not. Khora is a queen of Endurance missions - het loot augument is great in modes like Survival, Excavation, Alchemy or Void Flood. In other modes it is simply more stuff. Khora's playstyle is using your your Dome charges to gather enemies for your Whipclaw anyways, so it is not like you have to change it to benefit from the setup.

20 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Plus unless you are farming you want that slot for different mods.

What mods?

This is the build OP is using. Mine is quite similar, albeit my arcanes and mods are max rank and I use Streamline instead of FE, Stretch instead of Augur Reach and the Augur Message is a flex slot.

20 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Also, the reason people use garbage weapons for stat sticks is mostly because the riven disposition is usually very high. Someone further up suggested a cheap riven they saw, so I'd go with that. A good riven is key to optimizing damage with a stat stick.

Investing in a garbage weapon and a riven is pointless, when Incarnon Evolutions offer bonuses to base stats. No amount of Riven disposition will overvalue the actual basic stat modification (which is further multiplier by mods). It was viable tactic before Zariman update and introduction of first Incarnons.

Edited June 18 by Zakkhar

[VENDOMINUS]

Stat stick is very dependent on the frame. For Gara for example, a weapon with a riven is a lot better than a meta incarnon w/o, when it comes to aoe damage and splinter storm stacking.

For khora, atlas and excalibur the benefits of Magistar should trump the basic weapons with a riven, due to the increase in base stats for the skill. (with Maguss aggress)

Ash really doesn't care much either way.