Jade needs a skin

[RLanzinger]

To @Waizard13 : "now I know why stalker hates us. We are wearing his dead wife's corpse..."

Nan, he did hate been "weak". But Stalker-lorian now will really Jaded-HATE us if we take Baby-Yoda to the Sun/moon side of the VOID.

 

NO DOUBT, A Jade alternate Skins will be propose by Tenno-gen or in Deluxe in few months as it take time to design and get approved.

 

Also I must admit, after Operator being child-Soldier, I'm not much affected by :

• Stalker, The most Bloody Assassin of the whole Solar system getting to be the Babysitter/ ""Responsible"" Father.
• Jade, Being a Pregnant War-battle-Frame. (Which ALSO tell us that Infestation is a kind of life keeper).

 

Still I agree with you all that a non-pregnant skin IS necessary ...

because

[mxcarma]

4 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

As I said, normally we manage triggers the best we can. And you’re right that expecting a company to cater to individual traumas isn’t realistic. But i’m showing how it has affected her because she was surprised by it as the marketing material was misleading. As I said, neither of us would have had a problem had the marketing shown it properly. My fiance would have just skipped Jade and managed her trigger that way. The way DE went about this didn’t allow her that - and fair enough if you want to say that they don’t owe anyone that, but the amount of people who also seem to be feeling tricked shows that there was a lack of transparency in the marketing, and that can lead to any number of issues with customer dissatisfaction, her trauma being one  example of that.

 

I’m not using her trauma for my own needs, she’s been next to me as I have written all of this and these are as much her feelings as they are mine. She just isn’t the type to engage in public discussion so I’m doing it instead.

 I understand that your fiance feels tricked, but a lot of the people who agree with you on this matter don't care about you're fiance's trauma. They think Jade's body is ugly which is the worst possible reason to change her. If your fiance would like to have a meaningful discussion about it, why not send an email to DE or go to a woman-centered gaming forum? You are not going to have a meaningful, good-faith discussion in a place like this that is mostly comprised of young men most of which i doubt even understand where babies come from much less the grief of a miscarriage. 

I'm sorry for her loss, I know it hurts. And i felt it too; my heart dropped when I realized just how much motherhood-centered this warframe was. But now that she's here, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Don't play her or embrace the grief and work through it but please consider who is agreeing with you when you have this discussion and what it would mean to add your voice to the chorus of those trying to pressure DE into toggling her belly. Send a message to DE to try and open a discussion about how they can better deliver sensitive content, but don't demand that it stop just because they didn't approach it in the manner of your liking. Consider the broader context and what exactly is happening in the world in regards to those of us with uteruses and our rights. Consider how women's bodies have been talked about, how we are constantly represented in video games. 

 

[Debatra]

10 minutes ago, mxcarma said:

You are not going to have a meaningful, good-faith discussion in a place like this

As your own response shows, givem you opened with:

10 minutes ago, mxcarma said:

a lot of the people who agree with you on this matter don't care about you're fiance's trauma. They think Jade's body is ugly which is the worst possible reason to change her.

Not sure about you, but I haven't seen a single person just call it ugly yet. Unless you're just blindly assigning that motive to people who disagree with you.

12 minutes ago, mxcarma said:

mostly comprised of young men most of which i doubt even understand where babies come from much less the grief of a miscarriage

Yes, petty insults like this truly make your case inarguable.

[Carreciann]

This whole Jade situation reminded me of a devstream a few months ago, a fan asked if a Warframe can get pregnant. Now I don't know if DE already had planned for this or got influence by that person, the fact is that people actually want this kind of stuff 🤔

Edited June 21 by Carreciann

[0bsi]

2 hours ago, Carreciann said:

This whole Jade situation reminded me of a devstream a few months ago, a fan asked if a Warframe can get pregnant. Now I don't know if DE already had already planned for this or got influence by that person, the fact is that people actually want this kind of stuff 🤔

Yeah...

 

Edited June 21 by 0bsi
Fixing broken youtube link

[Shinoyami65]

2 hours ago, mxcarma said:

 I understand that your fiance feels tricked, but a lot of the people who agree with you on this matter don't care about you're fiance's trauma. They think Jade's body is ugly which is the worst possible reason to change her. If your fiance would like to have a meaningful discussion about it, why not send an email to DE or go to a woman-centered gaming forum? You are not going to have a meaningful, good-faith discussion in a place like this that is mostly comprised of young men most of which i doubt even understand where babies come from much less the grief of a miscarriage. 

I don't think that sending an email to DE directly is the best option for meaningful discussion given that DE rarely responds to fan feedback on an individual basis. Saying that you can't have an open discussion in the forum designated specifically for DE to review feedback on Jade just because other people are giving bad faith arguments just means that the feedback threads will be cluttered with those negative viewpoints (as was the case during Dante's release) and actual nuanced discussion is even less visible.

Edited June 21 by Shinoyami65

[mxcarma]

4 minutes ago, Shinoyami65 said:

I don't think that sending an email to DE directly is the best option for meaningful discussion given that DE rarely responds to fan feedback on an individual basis. Saying that you can't have an open discussion in the forum designated specifically for DE to review feedback on Jade just because other people are giving bad faith arguments just means that the feedback threads will be cluttered with those negative viewpoints (as was the case during Dante's release) and actual nuanced discussion is even less visible.

Good point. I find this discourse distasteful and objectifying. To me, it definitely highlights how far we have to go before women feel comfortable in gaming spaces. 

But it is also worth considering who is agreeing and disagreeing on a topic such as this. It’s one thing to gripe about her kit but another to complain about her looks (and I have my gripes about her kit, the singing drives me nuts and the flying is clunky- why isn’t it like titania? But I digress). 

The OP also brings up a valid point that the average player didn’t know what themes surrounded Jade and it should have been handled with a bit more transparency. I just do not think it warrants the right to demand that they remove her belly simply because one finds it traumatic, uncomfortable or least of all, gross. 

[OrionSincoat]

I'm sorry for both of you. 

I really wish for a toggle or a skin for Jade. Digital Extremes was aways considerate with everyone's feeling.

This time they know that this could be a sensitive topic, I really don't know why they pushed forward something like this. 

I wish everything good for the couple

Edited June 21 by OrionSincoat

[DudeleeG2]

I posted here because we both googled how to give feedback and this is what came up. I’m not really looking for a meaningful discussion, my fiance’s trauma is probably not going to heal from a warframe forum.
 

We do want this to be changed, playing as a pregnant woman isn’t what was advertised to us. We just want our concerns heard by DE so that they can offer an alternative skin for people like my fiance. It does suck that she’ll still have to see other players with the default skin and that might hurt her but as long as there’s an alternative option then it at least feels like there’s a choice people can make. Right now, it’s not a particularly inclusive choice from DE, and the marketing didn’t make it clear at all.

 

Neither of us has a problem seeing different body shapes. Its about knowing what you’re purchasing. I don’t like how grendel looks personally, so I don’t use him. My fiance doesn’t like how hildryn looks, so she doesn’t use her. Neither of us have a problem with them being in the game because we understand they are not “for” us. Jade was shown to be something other than what she actually is, and that’s the real problem. 
 

If DE would give a refund so that anyone who feels misled can get their money back, that would also be reasonable. But that is annoying for anyone who finds her actual kit fun.

 

It’s not really a problem who agrees with us and why. I don’t see anyone saying the things you seem to be thinking they are saying. Most people don’t want to play as a pregnant woman, but are fine with other people playing as one. Personally, I can’t see why anyone would want that but it’s not my place to judge. People feel tricked, that’s the issue. My fiance’s trauma response is just one symptom of being tricked.

[Debatra]

2 hours ago, mxcarma said:

K 😂

You know what, on second thought I hope that DE does introduce a non pregnant skin for Jade and they charge a premium that is donated to planned parenthood. You want her to be baby free, you are paying for an abortion and those proceeds should go to a charity that directly helps real people with uteruses find access to safe abortion. But then, I doubt DE is as petty as I am :)

I love how you blindly assume that would bother me. (Other than the idea of paying real money for any cosmetic, which I don't do anyway). "Oh, he doesn't like the idea of a pregnant warframe? He must hate women! I know what will get under his skin, I'll mention abortion!" Your choices of ad-hominems and non-sequiturs say a lot more about you than the people you're trying to insult and annoy.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb mxcarma:

I don't mean to be insensitive but your fiance is responsible for managing her own triggers. I too have experienced loss. I too was shocked by Jade. But not once did I think that we should change her form because it was too painful for me. That's not fair for me to expect an entire company to cater to my triggers. If your fiance is uncomfortable, I'm sorry, but she needs therapy and not to be catered to. Believe me when I say; running away from her pain will absolutely make her a bitter and angry person. Especially if she was rendered infertile like I was. 

I don't want DE to remove her belly. I am sick and tired of seeing all these female warframes with the same body types. All small waisted, skinny with big asses and breasts made for the male gaze. This is a state of the female body that is natural. It's never seen in a video game. Female warframes don't even have a Grendel. We got a pregnant warframe before we got a fat female warframe. And seeing who is complaining about her body type seems to be predominantly male (even if he's using his fiance's trauma, still a man felt incentivized to drag their partner's pain in public to legitimize his distaste for Jade), I wonder if this is just little boys being angry that they can't fantasize about her. 

I agree with this. 

[Drachnyn]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Debatra:

Not sure about you, but I haven't seen a single person just call it ugly yet. Unless you're just blindly assigning that motive to people who disagree with you.

 

[Debatra]

Good for you, you found one. That doesn't exactly invalidate my entire post, or justify the person I was replying to claiming that's all anyone who doesn't like this really cares about.

[DomoPANDAS]

Personally I mainly care about the gameplay and I love Jade's kit, but beyond that both design/lore wise I think Jade is equally awesome.

Although I do think the idea of playing as a "pregnant" frame is weird, for me it's more of a "Wow I didn't see that one coming" and less of an "Ew this frame is gross/traumatizing. Especially since by the time we're playing as "her" she's not actually pregnant.

I also disagree that not advertising she was pregnant is the same "misleading" anyone in a negative sense by any means. Sure someone almost certainly would never guess a frame was pregnant, sans Reb's reaction to that question a while back, but the idea of a pregnant frame to begin with has some significant story implications for this update and you could tell something was "off" about Jade when literally all of her promo and "reveal" gameplay solely took place from behind instead of showcasing the entire frame like usual. It's not like they were clearly advertising her as a NOT pregnant frame, they just didn't spoil that aspect for story reasons.

Jade's angelic aesthetic and her belly being a pretty clear parallel to the eye of an Ophanim, which is also what one of her abilities is named after, is imo an excellent way to tie the frame's design into the her lore and how she was infected at basically the worst possible time.

Sure the "idea" of playing as a pregnant frame is strange but to be fair between the gameplay, lore, and design I think DE nailed it.

This is also an excellent reason as to why people shouldn't blindly buy something before learning about it, especially something where all the advertisement was deliberately hiding any front/side view of the frame. Basing the desire to purchase the frame entirely on it's back half is silly, then again between Wisp and that new Ember skin there's certainly some people who would disagree, but I'd wager a decent chunk of the people hating on Jade's design would probably fall into that group. 

That being said, I think all frames having as many skins as possible for the maximum amount of people to enjoy is ideal, but I whole heartedly disagree with the idea that the reason Jade's design should be changed or an alternate "non-preg" skin should be provided is because her existing design is unappealing or was "misleading". Just like with Grendle or Hildryn, if you don't like the design, don't need play as the frame. It's far from DE's fault anyone bought a frame or skin that DE was specifically obscuring the entire other half of the frame prior to release and doing literally no further research.

Also again, despite the appearances, the frame we actively play as literally isn't carrying and is not pregnant, the frame's body is just in the same "shape" it was at the time she was infected.

TLDR;

There's no aspect of you or anyone purchasing a pack and being disappointed about Jade's design that's DE's fault whatsoever, nor do I think that should be the driving reason behind a change in Jade's aesthetic.

 

All that aside I'm truly sorry about what you and your fiancé went through and understand why you'd feel negatively about Jade's design. Even if I disagree it should be the reason Jade should be changed, do I hope a skin does come out will let you enjoy any and all frames you'd enjoy, whether it's more appealing Jade, a skinny Grendle, or a Wisp-y Hildryn, as the more fashion frame we get, the better.

[hyzmarca]

13 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

I posted here because we both googled how to give feedback and this is what came up. I’m not really looking for a meaningful discussion, my fiance’s trauma is probably not going to heal from a warframe forum.
 

We do want this to be changed, playing as a pregnant woman isn’t what was advertised to us. We just want our concerns heard by DE so that they can offer an alternative skin for people like my fiance. It does suck that she’ll still have to see other players with the default skin and that might hurt her but as long as there’s an alternative option then it at least feels like there’s a choice people can make. Right now, it’s not a particularly inclusive choice from DE, and the marketing didn’t make it clear at all.

 

Neither of us has a problem seeing different body shapes. Its about knowing what you’re purchasing. I don’t like how grendel looks personally, so I don’t use him. My fiance doesn’t like how hildryn looks, so she doesn’t use her. Neither of us have a problem with them being in the game because we understand they are not “for” us. Jade was shown to be something other than what she actually is, and that’s the real problem. 
 

If DE would give a refund so that anyone who feels misled can get their money back, that would also be reasonable. But that is annoying for anyone who finds her actual kit fun.

 

It’s not really a problem who agrees with us and why. I don’t see anyone saying the things you seem to be thinking they are saying. Most people don’t want to play as a pregnant woman, but are fine with other people playing as one. Personally, I can’t see why anyone would want that but it’s not my place to judge. People feel tricked, that’s the issue. My fiance’s trauma response is just one symptom of being tricked.

I can understand where you're coming from.   I can also understand why DE made the decision they did.    Jade's condition is a major story spoiler,  and no one likes it when marketing material spoils major plot twists in a movie or a game.    It is something that they had to dance around until the quest came out,  because it's knowledge that would lessen the quest's impact.   

[zerosuitfan91]

On 2024-06-20 at 4:31 PM, mxcarma said:

Female warframes don't even have a Grendel

Does Hildryn not count or

[Thanatos9t]

20 minutes ago, zerosuitfan91 said:

Does Hildryn not count or

Not really 'muscle mommy' as some people call her is more similar to Rhino or Atlas in Physical build rather than the sumo build of Grendal.

[zerosuitfan91]

22 minutes ago, Thanatos9t said:

Not really 'muscle mommy' as some people call her is more similar to Rhino or Atlas in Physical build rather than the sumo build of Grendal.

Still kinda different from the Wisps, Khora and Saryns tho lol

[Pneumanoultra]

While I think having the original Jade be pregnant is interesting for the story of Jade Shadows, having the version of Jade we build as players being perma-pregnant is a strange decision if nothing else. This gets downright disturbing when you consider that Jade can be subsumed into the Helminth. I was going to build a second Jade specifically for that purpose, but now it just seems wrong. I signed the petition, hopefully we get a toggle of some form.

Edit: OK, I just saw a Jade in the Sanctum Anitomica using the Excalibur Zato Noble animation set. In other words, she was smoking. While pregnant. Uncomfortable. Y'see, these are the type of awkward things that come up when you make one of your playable characters perma-pregnant. PLEASE fix this.

Edited June 22 by Pneumanoultra
In game observation.

[SaintAlfi]

31 minutes ago, Pneumanoultra said:

While I think having the original Jade be pregnant is interesting for the story of Jade Shadows, having the version of Jade we build as players being perma-pregnant is a strange decision if nothing else.

This really calls into question how building a frame works, no? I mean, by the time we get Jade's blueprint, Sirius/Orion have been born, and Jade has passed. You could make the argument that Hunhow had the blueprint before her passing (the creep), but even then, what exactly are we recreating into our own Jades? Another unborn fetus orb? An inert energy ball? It certainly (and unfortunately) does bring more questions than answers.

[PollexMessier]

7 hours ago, hyzmarca said:

I can understand where you're coming from. I can also understand why DE made the decision they did. Jade's condition is a major story spoiler, and no one likes it when marketing material spoils major plot twists in a movie or a game. It is something that they had to dance around until the quest came out, because it's knowledge that would lessen the quest's impact.   

So wouldn't it have been an intelligent decision, to not have the playable version of her keep the pregnant belly? Then they wouldn't have had to go through all the effort of hiding it.

[Pneumanoultra]

11 minutes ago, SaintAlfi said:

This really calls into question how building a frame works, no? I mean, by the time we get Jade's blueprint, Sirius/Orion have been born, and Jade has passed. You could make the argument that Hunhow had the blueprint before her passing (the creep), but even then, what exactly are we recreating into our own Jades? Another unborn fetus orb? An inert energy ball? It certainly (and unfortunately) does bring more questions than answers.

It hit me after I made my first comment that her being pregnant is probably why she has two aura mod slots. One is hers, the other is the child's.

[0bsi]

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

So wouldn't it have been an intelligent decision, to not have the playable version of her keep the pregnant belly? Then they wouldn't have had to go through all the effort of hiding it.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shinoyami65]

1 hour ago, Pneumanoultra said:

It hit me after I made my first comment that her being pregnant is probably why she has two aura mod slots. One is hers, the other is the child's.

Why doesn't the child come with a full extra mod page then? 

[Vaz2017]

On 2024-06-20 at 7:38 PM, mxcarma said:

 Don't play her

Don't play her and never join a public squad again, huh? Such helpful advice! /sarcasm