Jade is making me and a lot of other people uncomfortable

[(XBOX)Spiderwick3666]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Just for my complete understanding of all of you weird people who have a problem with Jade : Have you wondered whether any of the Sisters were pregnant when you fought against her ? I hope you immediately aborted (heheh) the mission.

That also draws a very weird line. You're OK with beating women to death to get some shiny loots, but OMG if they're pregnant that's instantly a problem.

Equal rights, and equal lefts, but you got to admit it's still fluffed up

[(XBOX)Spiderwick3666]

50 minutes ago, -LeoSyksy- said:

You don't need to play a frame that makes you feel uncomfortable, there are well over 50 other frames.. Personally I absolutely love that pregnant women are not seen as "handicapped" and can be seen as bad ass frames as any other female frame. I like that DE is not afraid to step outside of the "general comfortable circle": we have muscle mommy, hefty boi, a frame without a gender and now a pregnant frame. 

The quest also warned about issues with motherhood. If you don't like Jade, just don't play her. 

I apologize, but have you ever seen women in their third trimester of pregnancy engaging in armed combat? No, because pregnant women should not be involved in warfare. And it doesn't matter if I don't want to play her she's a new Warframe that's easy to unlock and super powerful so she shows up everywhere. I don't care about the quest it's the weird "baby bump" on her model that weirds me out. I'm not sure why my text is red, if it is red on the readers side I have no idea what caused it. Oh, and the frames that you quote as being "outside of the general comfortable circle" are only slightly fetish-y. Like you can get them on a technically but they really aren't that bad, but Jade is on a whole new level

Edited June 21 by (XBOX)Spiderwick3666
Missing detail

[(XBOX)Spiderwick3666]

10 hours ago, Chewarette said:

But you're fine with teenagers being the main protagonists of such acts of war, which includes ripping souls off with Nekros or being stabbed in the back by a two-handed blade ?

Then it's a you problem.

Just consider the energy orb in her belly is an energy orb in her belly, you'll be fine.

Or don't play her. Who cares.

That's all normal stuff, that ain't an energy orb which you would assume would give her more energy because wisp has 300 energy even though she doesn't have a grotesk bulge filled with ominous colored liquid.

[p_silveira]

59 minutes ago, -LeoSyksy- said:

If you don't like Jade, just don't play her.

To be completely fair, we could also just say "f*ck this, I'm not playing as a late pregnancy woman in a shooter game where I'm getting shot all the time, it weirds me out", not play the game and go spend our time/money on something else, but instead we're here as consumers offering feedback asking for a visual toggle on the official forums about the visuals of a product that the developers recently put out. It seems more productive.

What I don't get is the potential "productivity" of arguing against the idea of an optional toggle that would at best make the people who are uncomfortable with her current design more comfortable to play her and at worst wouldn't affect people who aren't uncomfortable with her current design in the slightest. Like, literally, no one would lose anything if a toggle were to be implemented.

Edited June 21 by p_silveira
clarity in the first phrase.

[Khalox]

The whole Jade theme seems like a rather unfortunate choice, but I don't find it any stranger than, say, the baby in the tank in Death Stranding... if we're talking about crazy stuff.

[-LeoSyksy-]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Spiderwick3666 said:

I apologize, but have you ever seen women in their third trimester of pregnancy engaging in armed combat? No, because pregnant women should not be involved in warfare. And it doesn't matter if I don't want to play her she's a new Warframe that's easy to unlock and super powerful so she shows up everywhere. I don't care about the quest it's the weird "baby bump" on her model that weirds me out. I'm not sure why my text is red, if it is red on the readers side I have no idea what caused it. Oh, and the frames that you quote as being "outside of the general comfortable circle" are only slightly fetish-y. Like you can get them on a technically but they really aren't that bad, but Jade is on a whole new level

Playable Jade is not in her last trimester. That belly is small. Also, have you ever seen a fat man turning into a literal ball and eating others? 
This is a game. These are fictional characters. If you have a problem with a pregnant frame, that is your issue tbh.

[Spyke2009]

11 minutes ago, -LeoSyksy- said:

Playable Jade is not in her last trimester. That belly is small.

I'm sure it will be easy to state this for definite. If she gave birth, she's last trimester. If her base aesthetics are identical she IS last trimester...

 

12 minutes ago, -LeoSyksy- said:

Also, have you ever seen a fat man turning into a literal ball and eating others? 

An obviously fantastical element. Being incomperable to the common realistic physical state of... pregnancy. 

 

12 minutes ago, -LeoSyksy- said:

This is a game. These are fictional characters. If you have a problem with a pregnant frame, that is your issue tbh.

Yes those are ALL correct statements of fact. But completely irrelevant and dismissive. Uncompelling hand waves are simply uncompelling.

[Pandygon]

Yo that's insane! What will they do next? Sending children to the void or trying to kill my mother? Oh wait . . . It was fine as long as it was a bloody war across the entire solar system and seeing the death of their own brothers through the eyes of a grineer . . . but don't you dare touch my mother! Again!
This game is going too deep by the standards (of other games).
Anyways. There isn't even a child death.

"She will, once again, be a part of the giving of life. Ordis... hopes this is what she would have wanted." - Ordis, Larunda Relay

[Venus-Venera]

Zitat

any of the Sisters were pregnant

Of course I would then abort the mission. Pregnant women need to be protected, and children even more so. And if that were to happen more often, I would even uninstall the game immediately! And I am a normal person like many others and don't have any sick fantasies in my head.

Besides, it is unnatural for a pregnant woman to fight on the front lines for some kind of loot. Defending yourself is another matter, but that's not what this is about. That can only come from a victim of the Holywood propaganda.

Because girls play with dolls and boys play with tanks and soldiers.

[p_silveira]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[-LeoSyksy-]

9 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

Besides, it is unnatural for a pregnant woman to fight on the front lines for some kind of loot. Defending yourself is another matter, but that's not what this is about. That can only come from a victim of the Holywood propaganda.

Because girls play with dolls and boys play with tanks and soldiers.

ewwww, brother, ewwww. 
have you even played Warframe? There is hardly many natural things in it. :D 
I can't even tell the last comment was sarcasm or not. I hope it is. 
 

[-LeoSyksy-]

5 hours ago, p_silveira said:

To be completely fair, we could also just say "f*ck this, I'm not playing as a late pregnancy woman in a shooter game where I'm getting shot all the time, it weirds me out", not play the game and go spend our time/money on something else, but instead we're here as consumers offering feedback asking for a visual toggle on the official forums about the visuals of a product that the developers recently put out.

 

Yes, you could say that.
It genuinely baffles me, how a preggo frame is throwing ppl off rails. She is a Warframe. Not a fragile maiden who needs protecting. She is very clearly capable of taking care of herself and the belly. Playable Jade is also not actually her, as far as I can tell.  You can rebuild her, but the Jade who had the child died. You can see there is no baby in the belly of our Jade, just light.

[LittleLaGG]

Personally, after reading through every reply on this post and several others _{(because once I feel strongly enough about something to join the forums to say it, I tend to get too invested),} I genuinely haven't seen a single convincing argument against having some form of toggle or alternate skin for Jade to change her appearance so she doesn't look pregnant.

Some argue that it's just an energy orb—cool, if that's your reasoning for her current look, that's your prerogative.

Others bring up issues with other Warframes like Xaku, Grendel, and Hildryn. While those arguments may explain why some players are uncomfortable with those frames, none convincingly explain why players shouldn't have concerns about Jade.

There are also arguments about playing as child soldiers causing discomfort. It's a valid concern, but unlike Jade, whose design and story are recent and could easily be adjusted, addressing the child soldier issue would require rewriting or retconning the entire story. We may not like it, but we can't change it now. However, Jade's design is recent enough that feedback could potentially lead to changes or an alternate design.

Some discussions have brought up agendas and LGBTQ+ issues, which I find confusing. Why bring these into the argument? Where did they come from, and why are they relevant?

I enjoyed the quest, though I felt there should have been more character development for Jade beyond being the Stalker's lover, pregnant, and dying in childbirth.

Overall, I like Jade's design, but I feel uncomfortable playing her because her playable version reflects her pregnant appearance from the quest. Many players, including myself, logically conclude she's pregnant in the playable version, which can be off-putting for some.

In my opinion, the best solution for everyone would be to offer a toggle option. Those who prefer her current appearance can keep it, while those who don't can change it. This won't prevent her pregnant appearance from being seen in relays or gameplay, but it would allow players to avoid feeling uncomfortable taking what appears to be a pregnant woman into battle _{(even though she's a Warframe and not a biological woman, the portrayal matters to many players).}

 

[inappropriatename5877]

3 hours ago, Spyke2009 said:

Yes those are ALL correct statements of fact. But completely irrelevant and dismissive.

They are absolutely relevant. Inability to discern a game from reality should alarm any normal human.
 

Let me give you some similar statements, see how they sound

"People die in fires every year and it's tragic, I would like Ember changed"
"People get tortured as prisoners of war all the time, I would like Valkyr changed"
"Some people are still slaves, I want Khora changed"
"Self harm is a serious issue, I want Kullervo / Garuda changed"

Ember is a fire themed frame. Valkyr underwent horrific torture that left her mentally deranged. Khora's innate weapon, the whip, was used on slaves.
Kullervo pretty much uses his body as a dagger pincushion and Garuda literally cuts herself to get more energy.

You can draw parallels to real life with a lot of warframes, yet I cannot recall any backlash about the aforementioned frames (or I was oblivious to it, also an option). So, either people are hypocrites and feel good virtue signalling for a non-issue, or the real problem is people being unable to discern fantasy from reality.

Edited June 22 by inappropriatename5877

[(XBOX)Spiderwick3666]

37 minutes ago, FLDataTeK said:

Personally, after reading through every reply on this post and several others _{(because once I feel strongly enough about something to join the forums to say it, I tend to get too invested),} I genuinely haven't seen a single convincing argument against having some form of toggle or alternate skin for Jade to change her appearance so she doesn't look pregnant.

Some argue that it's just an energy orb—cool, if that's your reasoning for her current look, that's your prerogative.

Others bring up issues with other Warframes like Xaku, Grendel, and Hildryn. While those arguments may explain why some players are uncomfortable with those frames, none convincingly explain why players shouldn't have concerns about Jade.

There are also arguments about playing as child soldiers causing discomfort. It's a valid concern, but unlike Jade, whose design and story are recent and could easily be adjusted, addressing the child soldier issue would require rewriting or retconning the entire story. We may not like it, but we can't change it now. However, Jade's design is recent enough that feedback could potentially lead to changes or an alternate design.

Some discussions have brought up agendas and LGBTQ+ issues, which I find confusing. Why bring these into the argument? Where did they come from, and why are they relevant?

I enjoyed the quest, though I felt there should have been more character development for Jade beyond being the Stalker's lover, pregnant, and dying in childbirth.

Overall, I like Jade's design, but I feel uncomfortable playing her because her playable version reflects her pregnant appearance from the quest. Many players, including myself, logically conclude she's pregnant in the playable version, which can be off-putting for some.

In my opinion, the best solution for everyone would be to offer a toggle option. Those who prefer her current appearance can keep it, while those who don't can change it. This won't prevent her pregnant appearance from being seen in relays or gameplay, but it would allow players to avoid feeling uncomfortable taking what appears to be a pregnant woman into battle _{(even though she's a Warframe and not a biological woman, the portrayal matters to many players).}

 

I've never read a more true comment

[(PSN)AKIOTIASHI]

Wow I never even noticed that part lol I have to look 

[Oreades]

I for one commend DE for being progressive in eliminating maternity leave and funneling pregnant women into the theater of war. /s

Do I question DE's decision making, sure why not.
Do I really care at the end of the day, not really.

I just wish I was a fly on the wall at the meetings that brought us all to this point because I bet they where hilarious.

[Petergeist00]

Agreeing on the uncomfortability, i also already explained how bad and disgusted i feel at the thought of giving Jade to the helminth because she looks pregnant, i literally can't make me do it even if i want her ability

[Spyke2009]

1 hour ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

They are absolutely relevant. Inability to discern a game from reality should alarm any normal human.
 

Let me give you some similar statements, see how they sound

"People die in fires every year and it's tragic, I would like Ember changed"
"People get tortured as prisoners of war all the time, I would like Valkyr changed"
"Some people are still slaves, I want Khora changed"
"Self harm is a serious issue, I want Kullervo / Garuda changed"

Ember is a fire themed frame. Valkyr underwent horrific torture that left her mentally deranged. Khora's innate weapon, the whip, was used on slaves.
Kullervo pretty much uses his body as a dagger pincushion and Garuda literally cuts herself to get more energy.

You can draw parallels to real life with a lot of warframes, yet I cannot recall any backlash about the aforementioned frames (or I was oblivious to it, also an option). So, either people are hypocrites and feel good virtue signalling for a non-issue, or the real problem is people being unable to discern fantasy from reality.

All of those statements, have no bearing on my dislike of the aesthetic and wish that there was an alternative look for the frame?
I wouldn't dismiss them ENTIRELY, but I certainly wouldn't rate them high in terms of being compelling reasons, so we've no disagreement there.
I just don't think it's compelling at all, to point to these separate issues, each dealing with a potential controversial topic, to justify this one.
Like you said, it's likely someone DID take issue with those subjects being part of the lore of the frames in question.
 
Please note, I'm not personally one of the ones that are "uncomfortable" with the pregnant look because it relates to real life myself. I simply just think it looks crap aesthetically.
 
There's also the ludonarrative dissonance created by the pregnancy being detrimental and fatal to her (seemingly it's not well explained) in the story, but then she as a... a replica frame, a clone of the real jade complete with pregnancy afterwards and thus totally... fine? It's all so bizarre and ill conceived. Like someone had an idea, a "vision" and just didn't want to let it go in spite of potential criticism.

It's such an odd design choice which not only courts controversy due to peoples personal feelings on the subject matter, but just doesn't seem all that appealing to a lot of people. Which begs the question, who was this frame made for in terms of its aesthetics, if it was going to be perma pregnant and more importantly... why? 

Something to add, I think for many, hearing we were getting a new angelic warframe support with cool thematic abilities and aesthetics to match was exciting for a great number of people. Only now it's that but... oddly the frame is permanently pregnant... 


I think of it like this. Someone promises to make you a delicious hamburger, you were promised ahead of time you were getting a hamburger, and they show you literal concept images of the hamburger but at odd angles, however you don't overthink it and put it down to stylistic choices. Then upon handing you this hamburger you realise, it's got some weird ingredient. Like raw parsnip on it. Turns out ALL the concept images you were shown at those weird angles, were to hide the fact the raw parsnip was there. 

All people are really asking for, is to take the parsnip off the hamburger. If they want to.

[P._I._Staker]

Eh, I don't see this as worse than how we roleplay as child soldiers who commit warcrimes for breakfast. Also she's not pregnant. She already gave birth during the quest. The new blueprint doesn't come with a fetus inside.

The belly doesn't shrink immediately after birth you know?

Edited June 22 by P._I._Staker

[Pandygon]

Wait, are you the same guys who were uncomfortable with the Pride event? "Because I don't want to imagine a gayframe."

I say, stop choosing for others. As a woman, I imagine if I were pregnant I would enjoy smashing some heads in a game (yes, it's a game) with a Warframe that was once pregnant (yes, it's obvious that the copy is no longer pregnant but retains the shape, which is super cool by the way), and that what I'm really playing now is a mother.
Thanks DE for dedicating a Warframe to all pregnant women and those who are already mothers! They are already fighting their war in this world!
A woman playing video games is still strange for some people in 2024. Imagine if she's also a mom, they should be doing "women's" things, is that what you think while staring at Wisp's butt?
They told me, don't go in forum, the community is great and all, but stay away from forum. Aaand they were right, I'm gonna play Warframe. Cya <_<

"She will, once again, be a part of the giving of life. Ordis... hopes this is what she would have wanted." - Ordis, Larunda Relay

[Vaz2017]

Yeeeeaaah... I was really excited for Jade, but not anymore, just because of the...belly. Ugh.

And uh, look, y'all up in Canada might not realize this but in the USA it's a very...awkward...time to release a Pregnancyframe that always looks pregnant and can't be opted out of in any way. Kinda reminds you of something.

It's not the "pregnant woman in battle" idea that bothers me, and I'm on the side of "fiction isn't reality." What bothers me is that every time I join a public squad currently, I have to see The Belly unless I make an absurd effort to look away from Jades. Pregnancy is just not something I want to have on my mind when people in my country are being forced to give birth more and more.

Edited June 22 by Vaz2017

[(XBOX)Spiderwick3666]

8 hours ago, Pandygon said:

Wait, are you the same guys who were uncomfortable with the Pride event? "Because I don't want to imagine a gayframe."

I say, stop choosing for others. As a woman, I imagine if I were pregnant I would enjoy smashing some heads in a game (yes, it's a game) with a Warframe that was once pregnant (yes, it's obvious that the copy is no longer pregnant but retains the shape, which is super cool by the way), and that what I'm really playing now is a mother.
Thanks DE for dedicating a Warframe to all pregnant women and those who are already mothers! They are already fighting their war in this world!
A woman playing video games is still strange for some people in 2024. Imagine if she's also a mom, they should be doing "women's" things, is that what you think while staring at Wisp's butt?
They told me, don't go in forum, the community is great and all, but stay away from forum. Aaand they were right, I'm gonna play Warframe. Cya <_<

"She will, once again, be a part of the giving of life. Ordis... hopes this is what she would have wanted." - Ordis, Larunda Relay

I hate when people go "because you think this you also think this" it's idiot at best, the truth is a lot of people don't like Jade not because the pregnancy aspect in the story but the fact that she's permanently pregnant while the player is using her is incredibly strange and just because someone thinks a pregnant lady shouldn't be on a warzone doesn't mean there homophobic. Your logic is egregious. That's like saying everyone who thinks child soldiers are bad also are racist. And as a black man, don't think you can get away with saying dumb sh't. Equal rights, and equal fights.

Edited June 22 by (XBOX)Spiderwick3666

[Waeleto]

I really hope DE addresses this (perhaps in a devshort) before the situation escalates more

[EverdarkRaven]

While on the topic of things we are uncomfortable with. I don't like the sexualization of Warframes. They are infested humans that we use as marionettes, they cannot consent to anything. It was disgusting that on the devstream when introducing the new Ember skin they were focused on her butt of all things.