Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

You are the one demanding "endgame" because game doesnt have any, not us. If the game already has endgame than every single topic about it is pointless, isnt it?

Where have I said that the game does not have any endgame? You lie.

As I have already said multiple times, there are many types of endgame and Warframe attempts many of them. Many of them are not particularly good or fleshed out. So they can be improved. And as the title of this thread suggests, some of them are "held back by how easy it is".

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

The momment you add hard content you create hard locked meta.

And guess what? DE has added hard content. And it has created and promoted a hard locked meta. You are again either lying or simply ignorant if you are trying to say that content like this:

or this:

or this:

or this:

have any place in the game's current hard content like SP or EDA.

"oh buh buh they're just for memes buh buh" right, because DE's wasting all this development time and energy for nothing. Like just read that out loud to yourself. DE is wasting their money on nothing. A funny haha. A business that exists to generate revenue is burning it for nothing. And you can't even allow yourself the mere thought that maybe some of this stuff could one day be more than "just for memes".

[4thBro]

 

I am a god damn prophet.

I made a prediction in your face, and it still came true.

I even responded to it preemptively. That's incredible, lmao

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, dwqrf said:

I don't.

You literally just did:

11 hours ago, dwqrf said:

You cannot tell us the game doesn't have an endgame

You lied. Right here. You lied about what I have said.

[MrInubis]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And guess what? DE has added hard content. And it has created and promoted a hard locked meta. You are again either lying or simply ignorant if you are trying to say that content like this:

DE has in fact added "artificialy" hard content by locking us out of our power. Also you are the ignorant one here. Nobody said that those things have a place in the meta, not even once. The point is they dont have to. Thats the 1 single point you fail to grasp somehow.

[PublikDomain]

2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Nobody said that those things have a place in the meta, not even once. The point is they dont have to.

So they are locked out of the meta?

🤔

[dwqrf]

il y a 13 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

I am a god damn prophet.

I made a prediction in your face, and it still came true.

I even responded to it preemptively. That's incredible, lmao

il y a 11 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

You literally just did:

You lied. Right here. You lied about what I have said.

[dwqrf]

il y a une heure, 4thBro a dit :

I only have 2.5k hours

il y a une heure, 4thBro a dit :

If that isn't casual, I literally don't know how else to convince you.

 

[dwqrf]

il y a 34 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

-snip-

Where logical response bro ? Come on, show me your fallacies and strawmaning and ad hominem, we miss it so much !

[RichardKam]

43分钟前 , PublikDomain 说:

It's the same thing. Endgame is endgame. It's all endgame. Some of it is perpetual, some of it is not. But it's all still endgame.

Do I need to differentiate between cars and "red cars"? 🙄

We have some skins and bones, yes. And they add more skins and bones all the time. We're about to get another Nightwave season. That too is part of the game's collective endgame.

Is this endgame good or sustainable? Not really. Is the challenging endgame in particular good or sustainable? It's a more solid "no" though we can see it starting to poke through. Can it be better and more sustainable? Yes everything can always be improved. But that part of the endgame in particular is one of the many things "held back by how easy it is", which is the topic of this thread. For example:

Of course I am! Have you read nothing? Why do you think I talk about all the stat squish and stuff? Because this particular part of the endgame is one of the things "held back by how easy it is".

No S#&$. Here are some simple examples:

• DE was working on the Kingpin system. It would have given clans some sort of customizable daily or weekly missions to send their members out on. They were already doing this but dropped it in favor of SO. It's just clan alerts or clan goals. (Social, potentially Challenging)
• We had the Solar Rail Conflict system. It allowed clans to compete over territory. This gave us a social endgame and a competitive endgame and a constructive endgame and  a challenging endgame. It was quite great. And it had flaws, flaws which today can all be easily solved: adding more nodes to compete over, using Conclave rules to balance, changing the tax system, and adding meta rules like "you can't invade territory if it's not connected to the territory you control". (Social, Constructive, Competitive, Challenging)
• Dojo decoration is something a lot of very talented people spend a huge amount of time on, and it could be made better/more accessible. (Constructive)
• They could also do things to make Dojos feel more alive and lived-in like adding NPCs (they already said they would), making the Dojo an optional login location, etc. (Social, Constructive)
• They could create something like the adopt-a-settlement idea I've talked about in the past. In it, clans (and individuals) can act as the guardians for a civilian settlement somewhere out in the game world. Clans (and individuals) could construct houses, add map tiles, recruit NPCs, do quests, protect from invasions, and generally just have something to upkeep. This could tie in to all sorts of systems. (Social, Constructive)

These are not hard to come up with. You just need to have a little

Like, you almost did it too! You almost had an imagination! What did you mean by "leaderboards" when talking about clans? Because we could totally have clan leaderboards for more things. That would help build more of a social and competitive endgame for clans. You did it, here is your sticker: ⭐

Well, I can see your points, but DE has been making contents at least solo-able since a long time ago. Railjack was specifically revamped to be solo-able. Netracell, EDA, Circuit, everything. That's why clan-only events are highly unlikely to be the game focus in any near future. At least I am not looking forward to any contents that require interaction with others, and I am not sure if people really want these as well?

Again, if DE do it, congrats, very nice, happy for you. If not, good luck.

[MrInubis]

39 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

So they are locked out of the meta?

🤔

Of meta, yes. Of gameplay? No. They are still viable to do any content, they are just a lot weaker. Some are even here just for memes. Meta will always exist no matter what but there is a difference between meta and hard locked meta. The first one just lets you complete things more efficiently the other completely locks you out of content if you dont follow it.

Edited August 23 by kuciol

[dwqrf]

il y a 38 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

So they are locked out of the meta?

🤔

What about you go play some The First Descendant to see how well a perfectly stats-squished Warframe feels to play, both in progression and in endgame, instead of trying to change the game into something it is not ?

"Ho no, I can't, because it's going to highlight how flawed is my point of view, how boring is the result, and I can't accept to be proven wrong".

Bonus point : if you actually like TFD, you can stay there.

[GEN-Son_17]

12 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

It's so frustrating to watch you guys just straight up lie.

But it's literally not. The 12 year history of the game is full of the argument "yes". Here is the argument "yes" for challenge spanning back to when the game was 1 year old written into the patch notes of the very game you are currently talking about:

"Deep Archimedea has an extremely high difficulty level and is designed to really put you and your Arsenal to the test."
-Digital Extremes, 2024

"These missions are intended to be challenging, so select your loadouts carefully to overcome your obstacles and take down your opponents."
-Digital Extremes, 2022

"It is time to take on a new challenge. The Origin System is ever-changing. Our enemies grow more powerful - only the Tenno with true mastery of their Arsenal will overcome what awaits us."
-Digital Extremes, 2020

"Note: Failure is a rare thing in Warframe, in the month of September only 2.5% of all missions were Failed. Prepare yourself for a new reality where failure may become the norm for these missions - can you overcome the odds!?"
-Digital Extremes, 2018

"Sortie Missions are difficult endgame Missions for experienced Tenno that can be completed alone or with a group."
-Digital Extremes, 2015

"New End-Game System - the Dark Sectors! The first of the end-game projects to ship, the Dark Sectors were an area of space once inhabited, cut off, that players can reconnect with by building Solar Rails! Building Solar Rails allows for expansion and dominance into the Dark Sectors of the Solar System."
-Digital Extremes, 2014

I can go get more of these quotes if you'd like.

Here is the Creative Director of Warframe giving you the compelling argument:

It's timestamped, 15:03.

"When people talk about "I'm bored of Warframe", typically it's because it's gotten too easy for them. So it's "how do we solve that problem as a unified dev team and community" which is gonna be the challenge for 2019."
-Rebecca Ford, now the Creative Director of Warframe, 2019

And what'd they add in 2020?

Like, are you guys just ignorant of the game's actual history and DE's actual words? Or are you liars? Because you try to speak for DE while saying the opposite things. DE keeps saying "yes". They keep adding "yes". And you guys plug your ears and pretend none of this exists.

Dude...you just showcased EXACTLY what everyone is trying to tell you. The game's main ingredient in its recipe is progression. In that progression is the endgame content you keep going back and forth about. Progression doesn't allow us to locked down by "the best stuff for the latest stuff", so endgame will never remain endgame. In other words, progression moves an endgame to a standard game mode over time, as it should.

It's a simple formula: DE provides endgame, we learn to surpass it, we gain rewards for surpassing it, then we gain a whole new set of game modes to use everything we've gained...without allowing anything we've gained to be left behind, and then the process repeats over and over. That's the recipe. That ain't changing, ever. It doesn't matter if 6 super hard core battle nerd dudes can trivialize whatever that endgame is. Congrats on being "gifted" in skill. That's all they can and should get outside of the rewards. For everyone else in the meaty middle, the recipe is perfect and provides thousands of hours of play. THAT is more important.

 

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

snip

This guy just quoted me 3 separate times back to back and posted 3 different laugh reaction gifs.

Lil bro is cooked.

[4thBro]

32 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

The game's main ingredient in its recipe is progression. In that progression is the endgame content you keep going back and forth about

Go back to my chart post, and observe the chart with the red line and the blue line.

 

If the game's focus is progress, then why does more than 50% of it not matter?

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

At least I am not looking forward to any contents that require interaction with others, and I am not sure if people really want these as well?

"Are there plans to bring back raids or some form of larger group content?

Megan: Oh, trials. Oh, what a time. We have, I think on your whiteboard, there has been an idea for trials for quite some time. But it's all about balancing what we want to do. Obviously, the story. Warframe:1999 was huge. So, it has a place, it has a time. We just gotta see when it fits in. But we do have ideas for it, and we want to bring it back. We want it to feel like what Warframe represents now and not go back to what it was. So, yeah, it's a big project.

Rebecca: The thing we miss most about them is having to coordinate with the team. That's our white whale right now. It's a coordination-based mission."
-Digital Extremes, 2024

-The Warframe community, 2022

"Players would like to see Trials come back, in addition to some more challenging end game content"
-Digital Extremes, 2022

[4thBro]

Dude, why are you posting evidence of your claim?

 

It ain't that kinda thread.

 

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, kuciol said:

Of meta, yes.

Great! Then this...

11 hours ago, kuciol said:

The momment you add hard content you create hard locked meta. You will be forced to use meta things because you wont be able to complete said challenge.

... has already happened. If you think this is bad, which I'm assuming you do since you used it as a reason to not have this kind of content we already have anyways, then maybe this bad thing should be addressed? Or if this bad thing is actually fine, then why do you portray it as a bad thing?

2 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

The game's main ingredient in its recipe is progression.

For you, maybe. For the rest of us:

"Players would like to see Trials come back, in addition to some more challenging end game content"
-Digital Extremes, 2022

2 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Dude...you just showcased EXACTLY what everyone is trying to tell you. The game's main ingredient in its recipe is progression.

Well I don't see anything in any of those quotes talking about "progression", do you? I do see lots of talk about challenge and difficulty, the thing you claimed there's apparently a 12-year history in argument against:

17 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

We don't have a need to discuss the no because the entire, 12 year history of the game IS the argument of "no".

Yet there it is, the exact opposite, from DE's own mouth.

2 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

It's a simple formula: DE provides endgame, we learn to surpass it, we gain rewards for surpassing it, then we gain a whole new set of game modes to use everything we've gained...without allowing anything we've gained to be left behind, and then the process repeats over and over. That's the recipe. That ain't changing, ever.

 So why do y'all keep getting so angry and defensive when people talk about DE continuing to this provide endgame? That's the recipe, right?

Why do y'all keep getting so angry and defensive when people talk about DE continuing to tweak this formula? Contrary to what you've said, this formula changes all the time. What do you think old Warframe looked like? Did that formula change? Yes, duh. You're simply ignorant if you think U10 Warframe is anything like what we have today. There have been countless buffs, nerfs, tweaks, and reworks you can point to as DE has spent the entirety of this game's history tweaking this exact formula you think "ain't changing, ever".

Like, just try taking an evidence-based stance. If you're going to say something, back it up! I do. I can point to updates, interviews, surveys, quotes, raw data. Can you? Can any of you do the same?

Edited August 23 by PublikDomain

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

has already happened. If you think this is bad, which I'm assuming you do since you used it as a reason to not have this kind of content we already have anyways, then maybe this bad thing should be addressed? Or if this bad thing is actually fine, then why do you portray it as a bad thing?

It didnt happen. You can use even the worst frame and weapon and still do relatively fine. Why do you read only the parts you want?

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, kuciol said:

It didnt happen. You can use even the worst frame and weapon and still do relatively fine. Why do you read only the parts you want?

We've said a million times that an endgame would highlight what Frames and weapons need buffs, and would thus get them.

 

What is your response to this?

[MrInubis]

4 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

We've said a million times that an endgame would highlight what Frames and weapons need buffs, and would thus get them.

 

What is your response to this?

And than you will come back here crying its to easy. I asked you many times how do you determine what is the apropriete level of challenge. You didnt bother to answer.

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Yet there it is, the exact opposite, from DE's own mouth

And than there are DE's actions : trials removed, arbitrations made easier, eda made easier, jade eximus nerfed, netracels made easier, defenses rework making everything easier and so on.

[4thBro]

9 minutes ago, kuciol said:

And than you will come back here crying its to easy. I asked you many times how do you determine what is the apropriete level of challenge. You didnt bother to answer.

Nice fallacy. You didn't answer the question, though.

 

An endgame will highlight what things need buffs.

I view this as a good thing.

What is your response to this?

[MrInubis]

1 minute ago, 4thBro said:

Nice fallacy. You didn't answer the question, though.

 

An endgame will highlight what things need buffs.

I view this as a good thing.

What is your response to this?

Its not falacy, its the reason why you are here right now. We already have such endgame. Thats my answer.

[4thBro]

4 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Its not falacy, its the reason why you are here right now. We already have such endgame. Thats my answer.

So let me get this straight.

 

You are saying:

1) We have an endgame that everyone can complete, even with the weakest stuff.

2) We have an endgame that highlights who needs buffs, because not everyone can complete it.

 

This is why we say you're just talking out of your ass. You just say whatever thing is contrary to whatever our most recent post is. You contradict yourself, and frankly, you don't even know your own stance.

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, 4thBro a dit :

What is your response to this?

I posted twice proof that you are an arrogant toxic person hating the world and thinking only his opinion matter.

Did you acknowledge it or even apologized ? Nah, you deflected, again, and ran away.

Run, little larvling. Or screech some more. Whatever, you lost.