Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[GEN-Son_17]

5 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Great! You want things added! Good for you for having desires! I would love a real ignore function so I can never play with people like you, for example.

That does not mean anyone has any onus to add them and it does not mean anyone else has to agree or in any way 'prove' or 'convince' YOU of why they don't agree.

"You want something withheld from WF so less people can be happy." - I want no such thing, that is all in your head. I think DE adds plenty to WF all the time, they are inspired and add things with a regular pipeline. They add some things that I do not personally find fun, but others I do, pretty typical.

You are literally non-stop harping on others to state what you want them to state, to tell you what you demand to hear. That is basic methodology of trying to sway someone's thought process. Many posters here love to use that verbal/mental trick, it's sophomoric and easy to spot.

It's not WHAT you are conveying it's HOW. 

You approach this whole thing as if you are god's gift to the community and we should all lap up your missives as if they are golden opportunities no one on the planet has ever encountered, then you just yell and create a bunch of blank lines in posts as if that conveys some imaginary force.

So, IMO/IME, you are just another gamer who thinks because they play a game they know how to fix the world and berate the community for not agreeing with them, just another gamer jerk with whom I would never play a game.

Anything else?

I was hoping you would come through to see this gigantic mess! Welcome back bro!

[GEN-Son_17]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Literally my whole point is that contextually it makes no sense for a wide variety of the game's abilities to not do meaningful damage

Chiming in for this part. 

It actually makes perfect sense to have abilities that do little to no damage...although you are using SP to characterize your statement, no the standard game where every damage dealing ability could kill multiple somethings. Frost's Avalanche stops 98% of enemies, removes a ton of eHP, and adds status procs that can trigger abilities, mods and weapons to do even more damage or buffing. Why should that ability also be a near guaranteed direct high damage killer in SP? Why on earth should Ivara have more damage dealers when she can run through an entire mission unphased, max out affinity XP for a squad, greatly boost self and squad survival and practically guarantee no alarm triggering? Why should Loki need damage abilities when he can stealth and group kill enemies with virtually no consequences to safety? Actually, why would one of the most effective SP Circuit frames ALSO have damage abilities? That seems very overpowering to do so. 

SP should reward the ENTIRE arsenal, not just damage abilities. The benefits of utilizing a well-thought-out kit very far outweighs the laziness of using a select few part of the kit. 

[4thBro]

3 hours ago, dwqrf said:

If you had OCD you would have completed your Codex by now. Ho no, it's too hard !

That's not how OCD works, but I mean...

... I might as well just type fklghjfkdghkdfjlgvdfsgkdsaf

 

fklhgdfkjl;ag fkglhdfklg fgkhdf;aklgdas, fhjg;kadfgfd.

fgkhandlkgadf fgklhjdfs;gfds?

fglkhadsjklg;dagd!

 

fdh fdh fhd fgd fdg

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

And all of those abilities listed are meant to enchance weapon gameplay expierience. 

Are you even reading what I'm writing at this point?

Like this isn't actually any kind of rebuttle to what I was saying in the quoted section.

A bunch of those abilities unquestioningly are meant to enhance weapon gameplay experience. 

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

Ive never claimed that my definition is perfect. The point still stands doesnt matter how you want to twist it. Caliban is not meant to spam abilities to kill. 

I'm going to break some of the previous conversation down.

Your point is that 'abilities are meant to support weapons'.

My main rebuttle is "then why are there so many damaging Warframe abilities that kill just fine? What's the difference between Volt and Qorvex?"

Your counter-counterpoint is that the difference is that Qorvex (and other frames who's abilities kill just fine) is a 'Caster Frame' and frames who's powers can't kill aren't, and that it's an important part of frame identity to keep this distinction sacred.

In other words, if your definition of 'caster frame' doesn't fit reality, then by extension, you can't support your whole 'Dev Intention' argument - because that argument is reliant on there being a distinction between 'Caster frames' and other frames. If Abilities not killing except on specific frames isn't a principle the Devs work by as an overall rule, then that big list of problems I came up with (which, frankly, you still don't have any actual counter for for past screaming that it's my opinion) suggests that abilities which suggest that they are for attacking should be given the ability to kill somehow.

 

2 hours ago, kuciol said:

As i said, dont bother. I dont know what you are trying to accomplish here. DE's intentions are clear. Just because you dont agree with them doesnt make them bad.

 

Telling me not to do it just demonstrates that you know that I'm right, and don't want me to reveal it. Also @dwqrf, you'll wanna read this too.

So right off the bat, let's get something out of the way:

See this?

This is a source. Specifically, it's a source from an educational youtube channel written by industry professionals. 

In other words, this isn't 'just my opinion'.

 

Still, I know that not everyone wants to sit through ten minutes, and in particular, will want to know how this applies to Warframe, so I'll add a summary as I go.

So, the basic idea as described in this video is that there are three main compontents for creating a 'fantasy' in a game. First of all, to note 'Fantasy' as it applies to Warframe, Warframe distinguishes itself as it has, for a long time, sold numerous fantasies. Specifically, both enemies and Warframes are all intended to evoke different fantasies - the Grineer are intended to evoke the aesthetic of a grungy, almost near-future military aesthetic (in spite of the game's actual far-future setting), whilst the Corpus evoke a cyber or raypunk aesthetic. The Warframes themselves are also intended to evoke distinct fantasies. Ash is designed to be a Ninja, Excalibur a Knight, Ember is a Pyromancer. The game then allows you to create your own playstyle and fantasy by effectively keeping everything unlocked. This is as opposed to games like Mass Effect, where the player's class is hugely impactful to their playstyle, as much through their limitations. This does come at a cost - designing this way means that an individual fantasy cannot be 'drilled down' into, like more conventional games might. Another RPG example would be Monster Hunter, where all of the choices that game offers all fit within the fantasy of being a supernaturally gifted hunter fighting increasingly-mythical monsters, in spite of being only slightly more than human themselves - a 'Charles Atlas' superhero, through skill, tools and knowledge. These games (with the exception of some spin-offs) don't allow the player to access fantasies like being a Superhero - as these fantasies generally require you to be on equal or greater playing fields than the foes you're fighting. This is why so many superhero movies, even the ones with world-changing stakes, spend some time having the hero beat up common thugs, by the by, though of course the rules and principles differ for movies. But nevertheless, it does remain important for Warframe to be able to successfully evoke and communicate the fantasies, if only because otherwise the game fails to evoke the feelings that it is trying to. And even if you don't play Warframe for the story or vibes, it is important, and it is indubitably something DE tries to go for. The New War did not need a musical number calling back to a previous chant of rebellion with the flame of hope now quenched - but it was vital to communicate the fantasy that you had lost.

 

Fantasy is achieved through the union of mechanics and aesthetics.

Mechanics is the actual gameplay of the experience. Aesthetics is the literal aesthetics - the visual design - as well as the other creative elements, such as sound design and narrative/lore.

In order to successfully evoke a fantasy, the game's mechanics and aesthetics need to support each other. The example given within the source is movement - how fast and responsively a player moves is critical to the fantasy. This can also be seen in Warframe through the Necramechs - Necramechs on a mechanical level are almost identical to Warframes. They have a gun, and four abilities, which are activated and function pretty much identically. 99% of the difference between a Warframe and Necramech is the sound design, the higher camera angle and the fact that their movement is sluggish and they have to choose between speed and maneuverability, whilst Warframes do not. These simple changes evoke the fantasy of controlling a giant, heavy robot. 

 

So, where does my problem arise from? Simple - there is a major discrepancy between many of Warframe's available abilities, and their fantasy.

Many of Warframe's abilities evoke fantasies around destruction and aggression. Lots and lots of flavours - be it punching, archery, esoteric soul magic, or a Kamehameha with the serial number filed off, or many more. And generally these abilities are great at the aesthetic side of the fantasy!

Nekros's abilities are all smoke, wisps of darkness and long, slow, dramatic animations of Nekros miming to drag his victims up from the soil - for them to 'RISE!'

Dante's abilities are precise and practiced, yet arcane, and cover the screen in glowing traces. The very picture of the learned Wizard who has used these movements countless times to call on magical power.

Gauss's powers are split into either the core of his kit - his straightforward sprint - or they are quick and simple, not even requiring him to change his stance so he can go immediately back into running. The exception being his 4, which is agonisingly long, and accompanied by a sound that calls to mind a jet engine getting up to speed - capped off with that 'ping', like something elastic giving way.

 

The issue arises in the mechanics.  Specifically, there's a lot of abilities where the fantasy is aggressive. Throwing a spear, hucking a fireball and, most relevantly, firing three lasers which coalesce into an explosion. Some of these abilities have no problems having their mechanics match their aesthetics - Protea is an excellent example. Blaze Artillery does plenty of damage, and it even does more damage against tight groups of enemies, which incentivises you to use your 'Artillery' (stationary weapons that are most effective against tight clusters of units) in a way similar to how a real artillery would be used, saving your infantry weapons to mop up single targets. Her other abilities further reinforce the fantasy - Half of her 1 and her 3 act as a resupply and bolster, whilst the other half of her 1 slows down enemies and even kills lighter targets, acting almost as the 'walls' of a fortress. She's an excellent 'engineer' frame, able to construct an area into a veritable fortress. The only power that doesn't really fit is her 4 - which alongside how clunky it is, is probably a good part of why people don't like it so much. After all, Nekros's 4 is pretty clunky with its long animation and how it behaves, but people love it, because it's so iconic to the Necromancer fantasy.

Another good example is Limbo. Limbo, by contrast, only deals chip damage with his powers. But this is also fine! Limbo is designed to evoke a stage magician. And stage magicians are, ultimately, illusionists. They don't evoke actual effects on anyone or anything. But through clever sleight-of-hand and the manipulation of their environment, they appear to do so. Limbo plays with this idea by effectively having the power to do such stage magic 'at will' - all of his powers either affect the environment (his 4), his opponents relationship to the environment, (his 1 and 3) or change the parameters of that environment (his 2 turns anyone caught in his 'magic circle' into a statue, effectively). This theme was even better expressed before his initial rework before his 2 which is kind of fantasy-breaking was introduced as it does affect enemies directly... which is fair, considering that the issue of a Warframe who has absolutely no ability to interact with enemies is a bit of a practical nightmare! Still, Limbo is another good example of a Frame who's fantasy of being a clever magician is very well expressed.

Now lets compare to Chroma. Chroma is a Dragon (... and the hunter of said dragon, I guess... that's already kind of a fantasy issue he's facing, but less important in the interests of this analysis). And his self-buffing powers get this across - Dragons are strong physical fighters, after all. His two also leans a little bit into Dragons as elemental masters too. And most of his 4's mechanics also help - he summons his pelt as a sort of draconic pet to defend a single area. And of course, dragons are well-known for being the guardians of areas, of important treasures. Even his passive works into this - making him one of the more maneuverable Warframes in the air is, whilst a poor man's recreation of flight, still evoking that element of a dragon, especially since he does summon wings. And then... there's the money maker of any dragon.

The breath.

Chroma can breath fire (and poison, ice and lightning, all only slightly less iconic). And the breath of a dragon is perhaps the single most iconic element of them, competing only with them sitting on giant piles of treasure. Skyrim demonstrates you're the 'dragonborn' by use of the shouts - with about half of them effectively acting as various flavours of breath attacks, or at least the aesthetic (They didn't need to have you launch a big ol' ball travelling forwards for the clear skies, summon storm or cyclone shouts, but Bethesda knows what's up). And yet... Chroma's 4 deals pitiful damage, struggling to kill all but the weakest enemies. Seriously, past level 19, it won't kill a Butcher (the weakest non-summoned enemy type the Grineer can muster) in one tick, and by the end of the star chart, that Butcher has nearly five seconds to walk up through a dragon breathing fire right at them and hit him in the face. 

It's clear that this is an example of the Abilities aesthetics and mechanics not meshing to produce the fantasy of being a dragon. And Chroma is not the only frame who suffers from this. 

The main throughline is the abilities that suffer tend to be ones that deal damage, or ones that mind control enemies. There's differences in the behind-the-scenes reasons, but the issue remains - these fantasies often rely on the threat and direct danger they represent. Being burned alive, impaled on a spear, or having a friend turn around and shoot you in the face instead.

 

Yes, many of these abilities do have secondary effects, many of which do in fact make them very useful! The issue at play isn't how mechanically useful an ability is. It's whether those mechanics mesh with the aesthetics to produce the desired fantasy. And these secondary effects are, well, secondary! They only rarely contribute to the fantasy, though there are some - Nyx's Chaos is a good example, since the secondary effect of having enemies not pay attention to you is part of the vibes of 'chaos'. Let's face it, nobody is scared of being trampled by a stampede of horses because it reduces the integrity of your armour. You're scared because you're being trampled by a stamped of horses, which can kill you. But in Warframe, not so much. Being a mook above a certain arbitrary level means that the thunder of hooves is of no danger to you.

 

 

All right. I think that gets my point across. Now to watch as somebody decides to respond with something like 'its not that deep bro' and go back to whining that 'it's just supposed to look cool!', ignorant of the fact that all this is why some things look cool but the same thing in a different situation doesn't.

 

 

5 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Chiming in for this part. 

It actually makes perfect sense to have abilities that do little to no damage...although you are using SP to characterize your statement, no the standard game where every damage dealing ability could kill multiple somethings. Frost's Avalanche stops 98% of enemies, removes a ton of eHP, and adds status procs that can trigger abilities, mods and weapons to do even more damage or buffing. Why should that ability also be a near guaranteed direct high damage killer in SP? Why on earth should Ivara have more damage dealers when she can run through an entire mission unphased, max out affinity XP for a squad, greatly boost self and squad survival and practically guarantee no alarm triggering? Why should Loki need damage abilities when he can stealth and group kill enemies with virtually no consequences to safety? Actually, why would one of the most effective SP Circuit frames ALSO have damage abilities? That seems very overpowering to do so. 

SP should reward the ENTIRE arsenal, not just damage abilities. The benefits of utilizing a well-thought-out kit very far outweighs the laziness of using a select few part of the kit. 

I was in the middle of writing all this when you posted, so I might as well fold this in. Because I agree with basically all of these examples! And I always have. That's why I've been calling the whole idea that 'I want all abilities to be kill abilities' a straw man all this time.

Ivara and Loki are for the Limbo-like. These guys don't need damaging powers. They're stealthy rogues and tricksters. Thats their fantasy. Loki especially doesn't need damage - if anything damage spoil that fantasy. And Ivara just needs her Bow to complete the Robin Hood set.

Frost is more complex, and until recently I'd have grumbled - but his recent alterations turn that all on its head. All those effects aren't just useful, they're thematic to being frozen. That is to say, both trapped in one place, and becoming fragile and easily shattered. His fantasy as a Cryomancer is arguably made worse when those powers are lethal, just because he doesn't get the chance to break the frozen statues.

[dwqrf]

il y a une heure, Loza03 a dit :

 'Dev Intention'

"Warriors of blade and gun: masters of the Warframe armor."

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Also @dwqrf, you'll wanna read this too.

But you know that he won't.

 

That's not how any of this works.

[PublikDomain]

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Explain your logic.

You said this: "people can't have fun knowing they play sub optimal gear." And I agree! And not having fun in a game is bad! Because games should be fun. So there shouldn't be any sub-optimal gear. Because then people would have more fun.

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Riiight. I'm a liar.

Correct. You have lied repeatedly. You lie in this very post. For example:

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

You don't even play Paracyst, even if could

Another lie.

It's my 7th most-used Primary. Of #*!%ing course I would play with one of my favorite guns in the game if I could. But as you have so brilliantly elucidated, "people can't have fun knowing they play sub optimal gear." So why - oh most truthful and intelligent of beings - do you think I do not currently play with the Paraycst?

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

So you want to stat-squish everything, without making them similar.
So there would still have disparities and discrepancies, and top gear will still be top gear and low gear will still be low gear.
So in your mind, people would play -any- gear just "because" and will not -only- play meta gear.

Yes.

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

How do you prove that ? How can you suggest that people would choose to play bad gear even though they have access to better gear ?

Because there would be no bad gear. How can you choose to use play bad gear when there is no bad gear?

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

-So either you want to stat-squish to make everything similar, hence the posts I made to extrapolate your broken thought, which you disliked very much strangely.

Yes, I want to stat-squish everything to make it more similar. You then took that simple statement and ran off screaming your nonsense about how I want to make everything in the game identical skins of each other. That's what I take issue with: your hyperbole and lies.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PublikDomain a dit :

So there shouldn't be any sub-optimal gear.

[...]

Because there would be no bad gear. How can you choose to use play bad gear when there is no bad gear?

[...]

Yes, I want to stat-squish everything to make it more similar. You then took that simple statement and ran off screaming your nonsense about how I want to make everything in the game identical skins of each other.

How do you make no sub optimal gear without making everything similar ?

How do you make everything similar without making : no bad gear = no good gear ?

You want to make everything more similar. Similar or not similar ?

Elaborate, because it doesn't make sense.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 5 heures, dwqrf a dit :

You don't even play Paracyst, even if could ; you are choosing -not- to ;

 

il y a 7 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Another lie.
[...]
So why - oh most truthful and intelligent of beings - do you think I do not currently play with the Paraycst?

How can I be lying when you say you don't play it. I don't think you understand the definition of lying. Are you some Schrödinger Tenno ?

[PublikDomain]

2 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

How do you make no sub optimal gear without making everything similar ?

How do you make everything similar without making : no bad gear = no good gear ?

And how do you make water without hydrogen? Like... what are you even asking? Where's this "without" coming from? There is no "without". Making things more similarly powerful is how you make it so there's no bad gear. That's the whole point of making things more similarly powerful. Similarly powerful being the key word, just in case you want to run off claiming I want to make everything have identical mechanics or some other nonsense hyperbole. Again.

9 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You want to make everything more similar. Similar or not similar ?

🤔

More similarly powerful. How are you still not getting this?

Just now, dwqrf said:

How can I be lying when you say you don't play it.

Now now, remember what you said:

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

You don't even play Paracyst, even if could ; you are choosing -not- to ;

I would play the Paracyst if I could. But I cannot. Because, as you explained, "people can't have fun knowing they play sub optimal gear."

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PublikDomain a dit :

And how do you make water without hydrogen? Like... what are you even asking? Where's this "without" coming from? There is no "without". Making things more similarly powerful is how you make it so there's no bad gear. That's the whole point of making things more similarly powerful. Similarly powerful being the key word, just in case you want to run off claiming I want to make everything have identical mechanics or some other nonsense hyperbole. Again.

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

That's not how that meme works, but you do you boo.

[dwqrf]

il y a 23 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

🤔 How are you still not getting this?

[4thBro]

36 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

 

22 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

That's not how that meme works, but you do you boo.

 

I mean... Credit where it's due, he KIND OF got it right. In a sense.

 

It's just that his choice of words is - unsurprisingly - misleading and disingenuous.

It's not "all good" and "all bad." Balanced does not mean everything is equally as good as they are bad. And the reason, dwqrf, is because GOOD means that you can clear missions, and BAD means that you cannot.

And that's why your meme does not work.

 

What you meant to say was... X way of being good, and then Y way of being good. However, then the meme fails yet again, because Publik wouldn't be pointing at X nor Y, because he has clearly understood this concept since the beginning. (And you have not, as can be seen with your failed usage of the meme.)

 

But you know what?

 

  

On 2024-09-01 at 1:36 PM, 4thBro said:

It IS the same, just not in the way you are trying to imply it.

 

Would everything be equally as useless?

Yes.

0%.

Everything would equally be 0% useless.

 

See how it no longer has that negative connotation you tried to inject into it with your misleading choice of words?

 

As always, an older quote of mine is still relevant.

This is how we know you're going in circles. Because, at this point, we can all just quote ourselves from 10+ pages back and it's a full & valid response to what you just said in whatever the most recent page is.

[PublikDomain]

21 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

45 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

🤔 How are you still not getting this?

Here, let me give you the correct version:

Even the child knows the bigger one is better! But if you pour some water out, they'll be about the same.

You can also pour more in, and they'll again be about the same.

Once they're the same even if you pour the contents into something else, and they'll still be about the same.

You, on the other hand...

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PublikDomain a dit :

Here, let me give you the correct version:

Even the child knows the bigger one is better! But if you pour some water out, they'll be about the same.

You can also pour more in, and they'll again be about the same.

Once they're the same even if you pour the contents into something else, and they'll still be about the same.

You, on the other hand...

You are in denial. You are the one pointing at a bekker. I'm saying they are equal. Equally good, equally bad.

[PublikDomain]

4 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You are in denial. You are the one pointing at a bekker. I'm saying they are equal. Equally good, equally bad.

But the best is just as good as before? So unless you're bad now, you wouldn't be bad after.

Here, let's circle back: which is "good" and which is "bad"? A or B?

A:

B:

IIRC one deals 2.5x more damage than the other. Which has been made bad?

Edited September 2 by PublikDomain

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Are you even reading what I'm writing at this point?

Maybe next time make your point clearer? Im not sure what you tried to say.

 

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Telling me not to do it just demonstrates that you know that I'm right, and don't want me to reveal it. Also @dwqrf, you'll wanna read this too.

No, its just pointless because all you do is tell over and over again what would you like the game to be. In the end it changes nothing.

 

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Your counter-counterpoint is that the difference is that Qorvex (and other frames who's abilities kill just fine) is a 'Caster Frame' and frames who's powers can't kill aren't, and that it's an important part of frame identity to keep this distinction sacred.

Thats entirely not the point i was making. Did you expect some scientific explanation with method presented or what? It was just a vague guidence on what frames gameplay looks like, his theme, identity. Loki is stealth frame, Inaros is tank frame etc.

 

In the end of the day its DE's game and they dictate the direction. Your whole essey was pointless rant because thats not what they are aiming for. Thats why i said you should not bother, you just wasted your time.

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Here, let's circle back: which is "good" and which is "bad"?

[PublikDomain]

Just now, dwqrf said:

You can't even answer. Weak.

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, PublikDomain a dit :

You can't even answer. Weak.

And you can't understand how wrong you are trying to make everything equally good without making everything equally bad.

[Loza03]

5 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Maybe next time make your point clearer? Im not sure what you tried to say.

 

No, its just pointless because all you do is tell over and over again what would you like the game to be. In the end it changes nothing.

 

Thats entirely not the point i was making. Did you expect some scientific explanation with method presented or what? It was just a vague guidence on what frames gameplay looks like, his theme, identity. Loki is stealth frame, Inaros is tank frame etc.

 

In the end of the day its DE's game and they dictate the direction. Your whole essey was pointless rant because thats not what they are aiming for. Thats why i said you should not bother, you just wasted your time.

If you're refusing to respond, then you're surrendering.

I accept.

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

And you can't understand how wrong you are trying to make everything equally good without making everything equally bad.

 

  

On 2024-09-01 at 1:36 PM, 4thBro said:

It IS the same, just not in the way you are trying to imply it.

 

Would everything be equally as useless?

Yes.

0%.

Everything would equally be 0% useless.

 

See how it no longer has that negative connotation you tried to inject into it with your misleading choice of words?

 

[dwqrf]

"Make sub optimal weapons stronger ! Reeeeeeeeee"

[PublikDomain]

20 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I mean... Credit where it's due, he KIND OF got it right. In a sense.

Well, more fundamentally than that in the meme the volume of the liquid doesn't change. But balancing gear so bad stuff is made good means changing the volume: liquid has to be added or removed from one of the beakers. Once the volumes are equal you can put them into different containers without any actual change.

And you bring up a good point: "good" can be a relative comparison, but also an absolute comparison. "The Felarx is better than the Paracyst" is a relative comparison, but "I can kill an enemy in 0.25s using the Felarx" is an absolute comparison (like your "you can clear missions"). And the whole point of a stat-squish is that that bad things become more "good" in a relative and an absolute sense, while good things stay where they are in an absolute sense. Your Felarx still kills in 0.25s, so it's just as "good" as it was before in an absolute sense. A 0.25s TTK isn't going to suddenly feel bad just because another gun gets a 0.35s TTK. It isn't true when DE buffs old weapons with Augments and Incarnons, and it isn't true when DE adds brand new top-tier weapons either. It's true that the best things would become less good in a relative sense, but that's the whole point and unless you're a little baby who can't feel "powerful" unless there's something weak to look down on then that shouldn't matter.