Idea for farming nemesis ephemeras

[PsychoSunshine]

I have gotten about 10 Sisters in a row without an ephemera, and the grind is getting grating, especially when every Sister I generate has the same personality and the Railjack tactical menu doesn't work properly. At this point, I have all the Tenet weapons where I want them and am just trying to get the ephemeras, but the 20% chance is just not enough. So, I have a suggestion for a little grind reduction: Shiny larvlings/candidates.

Having something that marks them as generating a nemesis with an ephemera would vastly reduce the fatigue from running through the same missions over and over again, especially considering that when you're farming a Sister or Lich, that is ALL that you are doing. You can't combine farms when nemesis hunting (meaning other progress is halted while hunting), and you can't hunt in Steel Path either (boring, too easy), which is why it feels like such a slog. I wouldn't even mind if the ephemera chance was dropped significantly to compensate as long as I don't have to burn myself out on nemesis gameplay whenever I get unlucky.

I can get through about two or three sisters in one day if I play all day, and by that point, I feel super burned out, which is not a good sign with infested nemeses right around the corner. DE, you've already done a fantastic job reducing the grind with the nemesis system when it comes to equipment by showing us the weapon it will have get before we decide to generate the nemesis. Having each failed attempt at an ephemera take a couple hours to reset feels terrible, especially considering there's no way to influence it.

[PollexMessier]

This would be nice. but I think the intended solution to this is the trading system for them. If you always convert ephemera Nemesis and trade it for a different one the grind is halved. The difficult part is just finding someone to trade with. I've only done this once myself. Or you could simply "buy" one off another tenno and trade a random converted sister for it.

Maybe just don't convert a cold sister tho, save it for last maybe. I don't know if their ice bubbles are still impenetrable as allys or if that's been fixed but it was a nightmare when I had them and they decided to spawn in.

Always convert any other ephemera nemesis tho. If for no other reason than the flex when they spawn, or to trade to your friends.

It could be a lot better. But they are just cosmetics at the end of the day.

Edited August 23 by PollexMessier

[LuckyNecro]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb PsychoSunshine:

I can get through about two or three sisters in one day if I play all day,

How is this possible, they get nerfed so much and with Oull thats should be way faster? Why do you have to always run the same missions?

[dwqrf]

Well, for me it was extremely easy to farm all Sisters ephemeras. I didn't do the same mistake as with Liches, as I didn't know how it worked at first, and I won't do the same mistake with infested Liches either.

My technique is really simple :

Instead of farming weapons, I farmed the ephemeras straight away. I just went in when the Sister update dropped ; pop a larving with the first element of the list, pick the random Sister without even looking at the weapon ; grind the murmurs, and kill the Sister. Repeat. I did it 40-50 times.

Every time I got a ephemera, I changed element to spawn the next larvlings.

After getting all the ephemeras, I went to my foundry, and I had every single Sister weapons with mostly all the element possible, and I just had to pick the best % of each before leveling it up to 60% with enough Valence component. It was a breeze.

I think that was like half the grind ; instead of focusing on weapons first, then doing it again for just the ephemeras.

[dwqrf]

And then there is of course the way to farm the Sister.

First, you need to play alone (without friends) but in public. Sadly, your friends will only slow you down. You need to equip 2 randoms Words, and in the last slot, a Oull.

Start with quick non endless mission, like Exterminate, Capture, Rescue. In those missions, you won't have enough rage to make your Sister spawn, so it's best to make it quick and focus on getting the murmurs with Hounds. If you are in public, you may get a mates' Sister from time to time, boosting the Hounds spawn, and the murmurs gain.

Then, while keeping track of your Murmur progression, you start doing endless missions (which aren't endless in Lich missions), without a fail condition (avoid defense) like Survival, Interception, Disruption ; to make sure the mission is long enough to give room for your Sister to spawn (before the 5mn mark, as any stalkers).

Stab your Sister ; don't be that guy not stabbing your Sister. You may also want to wait a lil' bit before stabbing her, to force Hounds spawn (and more murmurs) but depending on your Sister quirks, she might just leave without giving you a chance. You get a clue if the word tried is the right word, rightly placed, or not. Every try, fail or not, is an important piece of information. Combine this knowledge with the unveiled words for a logical better chance.

Repeat on the next planet.

With enough knowledge, you might place Oull in the middle.

Play the Railjack part in public too.

A Sister is rougly 30mn-1h from start to finish.

[Binket_]

59 minutes ago, LuckyNecro said:

How is this possible

Long story short?

• Shield-stripping Hounds. (Basically cripples them.)
  • For Kuva Liches? Just keep your lich alive for a bit so it converts nearby enemies to Thralls.
  • Trust me, converting the enemies with an alive Lich is SO much faster.
  • It does cap though.
• Clear shorter missions first for more aggro. (Summons them faster.)
• Oull first slot. Get x2 hints, try them both. You're guaranteed to get the third by the time it becomes relevant.
  • ... and that's assuming you have very poor RNG. Which is likely, this is Warframe.

Other than that? It's mostly just luck of the dice.
Gotta love it when your speed in fighting a boss is strictly based on random chance.

Requiem mods were a mistake.

 

25 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Stab your Sister ; don't be that guy not stabbing your Sister.

Usually? I get Hint 1 and 2 before I even leave Venus (Lvl1), so I rarely have reason to do that.
If Hint 3 ends up mattering? I usually get it mid-way through Phobos (Lvl2)... and by that time? The aggro is already back up.

If RNG really sucks for me? It'll go no further than Neptune (Lvl4).
Though the bigger issue is getting the aggro back up speedy spawns by that point.

 

 

As for the topic at hand though? Yeah, it really just feels like you just gotta buy them off players.
I have a hard time justifying doing the grind for some of them because they're either raw stat upgrades or really boring.
Looking at you Kuva Sobek. That Nightwave augment could've just been something the Kuva Sobek does on it's own.

So the fact that I'm already tired of the weapons as is gives me even less reason to bother with the Ephemeras.

[LuckyNecro]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Binket_:

Long story short?

• Shield-stripping Hounds. (Basically cripples them.)
  • For Kuva Liches? Just keep your lich alive for a bit so it converts nearby enemies to Thralls.
  • Trust me, converting the enemies with an alive Lich is SO much faster.
  • It does cap though.
• Clear shorter missions first for more aggro. (Summons them faster.)
• Oull first slot. Get x2 hints, try them both. You're guaranteed to get the third by the time it becomes relevant.
  • ... and that's assuming you have very poor RNG. Which is likely, this is Warframe.

Other than that? It's mostly just luck of the dice.
Gotta love it when your speed in fighting a boss is strictly based on random chance.

Requiem mods were a mistake.

 

Wow and than you only get 2-3 sisters done in a hole day?

[PsychoSunshine]

11 hours ago, LuckyNecro said:

How is this possible, they get nerfed so much and with Oull thats should be way faster? Why do you have to always run the same missions?

When I say "all day," I mean the amount of free time I have in a day, which may be different from the amount of time you have. I admit that's not very clear, borderline hyperbole, but it made sense to me.

I have also not been blessed with an Oull since it was introduced. 

I just run the missions I can complete the fastest while also getting all the hounds I can, which happen to be the same handful of mission types. This leads to burnout, and my not wanting to interact with the nemesis system at all.

[PsychoSunshine]

7 hours ago, LuckyNecro said:

Wow and than you only get 2-3 sisters done in a hole day?

 

4 minutes ago, PsychoSunshine said:

When I say "all day," I mean the amount of free time I have in a day, which may be different from the amount of time you have. I admit that's not very clear, borderline hyperbole, but it made sense to me.

I have also not been blessed with an Oull since it was introduced. 

I just run the missions I can complete the fastest while also getting all the hounds I can, which happen to be the same handful of mission types. This leads to burnout, and my not wanting to interact with the nemesis system at all.

 

[PsychoSunshine]

11 hours ago, Binket_ said:

Long story short?

• Shield-stripping Hounds. (Basically cripples them.)
  • For Kuva Liches? Just keep your lich alive for a bit so it converts nearby enemies to Thralls.
  • Trust me, converting the enemies with an alive Lich is SO much faster.
  • It does cap though.
• Clear shorter missions first for more aggro. (Summons them faster.)
• Oull first slot. Get x2 hints, try them both. You're guaranteed to get the third by the time it becomes relevant.
  • ... and that's assuming you have very poor RNG. Which is likely, this is Warframe.

Other than that? It's mostly just luck of the dice.
Gotta love it when your speed in fighting a boss is strictly based on random chance.

I know how the sisters work. It's the loop itself and the over-reliance on RNG I have a problem with, not necessarily the time it takes, though that is a part of it. It's also that the game requires you to focus on your nemesis to make any progress at all. For example, they can't attack you while relic farming on their planet, but they sure can take your traces and prime parts (in the case of Liches). I also have not gotten an Oull since they were introduced.

They already reduced the grind by showing the weapon that will be generated, why not the ephemera?

[Binket_]

3 hours ago, PsychoSunshine said:

I know how the sisters work.

I know, was mentioning it to the other guy.
They were asking "How is this possible?" so I explained.

[LuckyNecro]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Binket_:

I know, was mentioning it to the other guy.
They were asking "How is this possible?" so I explained.

No, nobody asked you how they work, i asked how it is possible to need a day, i was a little bit suprised, what PsychoSunshine answered with only the free time in a day. Maybe next time read the entire sentence and not only a part. I also prefer to make them like @dwqrf has mention it, for me there is no reason to not stab them after it gives some bonus murmur and if they level up i get a new planet with new missions and even if they somehow reach level 5 it dosn't matter.

[LuckyNecro]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb PsychoSunshine:

I know how the sisters work. It's the loop itself and the over-reliance on RNG I have a problem with, not necessarily the time it takes, though that is a part of it. It's also that the game requires you to focus on your nemesis to make any progress at all. For example, they can't attack you while relic farming on their planet, but they sure can take your traces and prime parts (in the case of Liches). I also have not gotten an Oull since they were introduced.

They already reduced the grind by showing the weapon that will be generated, why not the ephemera?

I think it got changed becouse the have added new weapons and with that it was way worse than in the beginning but the amount of ephimeras stayed the same and you can choose witch one you get with your warframe, so there was no reason to change it also. I always have a active one and when i have some dead time i use it to make some missions from them, its not the fastes way but can you get also to your ephimera maybe you find some way like that thats suits you. Sad that you are also unlicky with Oull, i sell them always when i have more than 10 to get not to much from them, when you want you can write me ingame and i gift you one, becouse the last hint is the one who needs the moste murmur, they are a big gamechanger.

[PsychoSunshine]

15 hours ago, Binket_ said:

I know, was mentioning it to the other guy.
They were asking "How is this possible?" so I explained.

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstood. Used to Twitter and Reddit style forums where replies are threaded. My b.

[PsychoSunshine]

8 hours ago, LuckyNecro said:

you can write me ingame and i gift you one, becouse the last hint is the one who needs the moste murmur, they are a big gamechanger.

I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it, but the Oull seems more like a bandaid than actually addressing the issue I have. The main source of burnout is doing the same thing ad nauseum. This is one of the reasons we have daily standing caps: it's burnout protection to keep players from farming it endlessly all day until they're sick of the whole game. If you can reliably limit the time a player needs to invest to reach efficiency, that player will almost certainly come back to enjoy the game. Getting the ephemeras from nemeses is pretty much the only thing in the game I've encountered that I feel doesn't respect my time, since I have no idea if my next hour is actually going to be spent getting what I want, or spent just resetting the whole system so I can try again which feels terrible.

[Binket_]

On 2024-08-23 at 10:26 AM, LuckyNecro said:

No, nobody asked you how they work, i asked how it is possible to need a day, i was a little bit suprised

I was getting an implication of asking "how they could get 2-3 done in a day."
Naturally, I'm inclined to help with such answers. 
So, I replied with some methods. Hopefully to improve your experience and (just maybe) others as well.

I didn't have to go out of my way and give some thoughtful tips.
I could've just called you a "dumb idiot who knows nothing" and trotted along with a smug, punchable smile.
... but I hate being that reductive because what does that actually do, really?
Nothing. It frustrates me, nobody improves from it-- it's pointless at best.

God, I try to tell anybody anything useful for Warframe and they bite back like a feral dog.
People than wonder why I'm constantly rude to people here. Cause and effect people, it exists!
^{Also? I don't need your permission to post. I don't care if you "didn't ask", that's irrelevant in PUBLIC FORUMS.}

 

17 hours ago, PsychoSunshine said:

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstood. Used to Twitter and Reddit style forums where replies are threaded. My b.

All good. I tend to dislike how both work myself, but I've also been trying to work on formatting to make it easier for folks to understand.

When I reply to two different people? I often double-up on spacing so it's clear that it's different people.
It ain't perfect, but little steps! Hoping it catches on so people make it easier to read here.

6 hours ago, PsychoSunshine said:

The main source of burnout is doing the same thing ad nauseum. This is one of the reasons we have daily standing caps: it's burnout protection to keep players from farming it endlessly all day until they're sick of the whole game.

On one hand, yeah-- that makes sense.

... but there is a limit. If the core gameplay loop is GOOD?
Players can do the "same thing over and over" and rarely get bored.

Warframe's core is good. Parkour is solid, feedback on hits can be really solid, there's a good amount of mechanics to work.
The problem is more enemies and missions specifically.

Spawning a Kuva Lich isn't anything special.
It's just running the same Capture Mission (which are already mechanically bland) until that ONE spawn has the correct option you want.
At least it's quick, but the repetition is what kills it there.
This effect is amplified by the Granum Void for Sisters of Parvos.

I find the problem is more that... once that's done, it's just the same things you usually do.
Just now with a timer that's entirely up to the whims of fate if you get to progress or not.

Aggro gauge not high enough? Too bad, it COULD spawn-- but it doesn't want to.
Poor RNG on spawns and the Thralls/Hounds weren't plentiful? Tough luck on the hints, try again later.
Finally got the hints and gonna give it an attempt? Oops, you lottery ticket today doesn't include Netra. Try again later.
It's needless padding ALONG with the repetition that drives most players nuts, not inherently the repetition alone.

 

It's also why I'm against standing caps myself, most of the time I'm not going into grinding for Open Worlds feeling glad.
I'd PERSONALLY rather get anywhere from a 1/4 to 1/2 of the entire grind done in a day than be forced to wait an arbitrary timer.
Especially when said standing becomes mostly useless shortly after obtaining every item in their list of stock.

It's still repetitive for me, but it's repetitive over a long periods of time.
I'd rather passive standing (I.E. freeing Solaris in Corpus Ships) be capped if it had to exist, but that's a story for another day.

 

The Requiem mods were a mistake.
If we're gonna address Liches? There's no sweeping that under the rug.
Adding an indicator for Ephemeras is nice, but it's not really addressing the critical concern for many players.

[PsychoSunshine]

5 hours ago, Binket_ said:

... but there is a limit. If the core gameplay loop is GOOD?
Players can do the "same thing over and over" and rarely get bored.

Yeah, that's a good point. I haven't really gotten tired of Disruption yet and that really is the same thing over and over. Same thing with Circuit. I have a blast with that. 

5 hours ago, Binket_ said:

It's needless padding ALONG with the repetition that drives most players nuts, not inherently the repetition alone.

This may actually be what's killing the loop for me. That and Railjack being a bit broken at the moment. Tactical menu doesn't work for hosts not in a gunnery or pilot seat, not including the forward artillery, which sucks because I play solo most of the time and the tactical menu helps with that.

5 hours ago, Binket_ said:

It's also why I'm against standing caps myself, most of the time I'm not going into grinding for Open Worlds feeling glad.
I'd PERSONALLY rather get anywhere from a 1/4 to 1/2 of the entire grind done in a day than be forced to wait an arbitrary timer.
Especially when said standing becomes mostly useless shortly after obtaining every item in their list of stock.

I can see that. I suppose the standing cap is there to bandaid problems with the actual loop or system. And yeah, I'm LR4 and I have little reason to interact with a lot of the older systems at this point, which is sad. If I could reliably get late-game consumables (e.g. forma, adapters) from the Solaris for example, I might be more inclined to engage with that system again. Narmer bounties aren't enough.

5 hours ago, Binket_ said:

The Requiem mods were a mistake.
If we're gonna address Liches? There's no sweeping that under the rug.
Adding an indicator for Ephemeras is nice, but it's not really addressing the critical concern for many players.

I'm not sure I understand what the problem with this is. What am I missing? It's relic gameplay, but with modding supplies instead of prime stuff. Maybe this is just me, but I tend to like the relic loop because it has me engage with game modes that I normally wouldn't (and in a slightly different way in the case of interception). Is it just that there is no pity system to get the mod you need like there is with Taufy Shards on Archon hunts?

[LuckyNecro]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb PsychoSunshine:

I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it, but the Oull seems more like a bandaid than actually addressing the issue I have. The main source of burnout is doing the same thing ad nauseum. This is one of the reasons we have daily standing caps: it's burnout protection to keep players from farming it endlessly all day until they're sick of the whole game. If you can reliably limit the time a player needs to invest to reach efficiency, that player will almost certainly come back to enjoy the game. Getting the ephemeras from nemeses is pretty much the only thing in the game I've encountered that I feel doesn't respect my time, since I have no idea if my next hour is actually going to be spent getting what I want, or spent just resetting the whole system so I can try again which feels terrible.

Du you think you can give youself this kind of daily cap ore is it enought for you to talkt about it? I think i get some similar experience with farming for the Braton Vandal Set after days of runing the Sanctuary and gaining nothing with it, i break it down to make only one run after i have loged in and than move on and make somthing else. Now it is a force of habit, i don't know if it is better ore not but at least i have now some sets to sell.

[PsychoSunshine]

31 minutes ago, LuckyNecro said:

Du you think you can give youself this kind of daily cap ore is it enought for you to talkt about it? I think i get some similar experience with farming for the Braton Vandal Set after days of runing the Sanctuary and gaining nothing with it, i break it down to make only one run after i have loged in and than move on and make somthing else. Now it is a force of habit, i don't know if it is better ore not but at least i have now some sets to sell.

Well, I'm LR4, so there's not really anything else for me to do in the game other than get the ephemeras and wait for the weeklies to come around after I finish them. And to be clear, I wasn't suggesting DE to put a cap on the number of sisters you can farm in a day, I was more bringing up issues with the loop itself and its reliance on RNG. At least with how the current standing caps are implemented, you can still play the content if you want. I was just using them as an example of limiting how much the player needs to interact with the loop to maintain efficiency. Standing caps just tell the player they're not missing out if they stop playing when it's empty.

I also don't think the larvlings/candidates need to be shiny, but there could be a pity system like there is with the Tauforged Archon Shards.

[Momoque2]

Il y a 4 heures, PsychoSunshine a dit :

Well, I'm LR4, so there's not really anything else for me to do in the game other than get the ephemeras and wait for the weeklies to come around after I finish them. And to be clear, I wasn't suggesting DE to put a cap on the number of sisters you can farm in a day, I was more bringing up issues with the loop itself and its reliance on RNG. At least with how the current standing caps are implemented, you can still play the content if you want. I was just using them as an example of limiting how much the player needs to interact with the loop to maintain efficiency. Standing caps just tell the player they're not missing out if they stop playing when it's empty.

I also don't think the larvlings/candidates need to be shiny, but there could be a pity system like there is with the Tauforged Archon Shards.

LR4 engame things to do : complete your codex ( ennemies, objects, fragments, somachord), get all the mods, max every arcane of the game. You will see its fun.

Edited August 25 by Momoque2

[supernils]

imo some things are just not worth farming, nemesis ephemaras being one of them, specific void relics being another.

either you get them, or you do not. so in short, it's a you problem (sorry).

[LuckyNecro]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb PsychoSunshine:

Well, I'm LR4, so there's not really anything else for me to do in the game other than get the ephemeras and wait for the weeklies to come around after I finish them. And to be clear, I wasn't suggesting DE to put a cap on the number of sisters you can farm in a day, I was more bringing up issues with the loop itself and its reliance on RNG. At least with how the current standing caps are implemented, you can still play the content if you want. I was just using them as an example of limiting how much the player needs to interact with the loop to maintain efficiency. Standing caps just tell the player they're not missing out if they stop playing when it's empty.

I also don't think the larvlings/candidates need to be shiny, but there could be a pity system like there is with the Tauforged Archon Shards.

I think even when they change something with the ephemeras the earlieast time they do it is with 1999 update and i hope for you that you have all the ephemeras at this time, so i think you can only deal with the system how it is now

[PsychoSunshine]

On 2024-08-25 at 3:03 AM, supernils said:

imo some things are just not worth farming, nemesis ephemaras being one of them, specific void relics being another.

either you get them, or you do not. so in short, it's a you problem (sorry).

what makes something worth farming? And how is a 100% chance based system a me problem? At least with relics, you can narrow down the pool of items to 5 and even skew the odds in your favor, and when you get any of them, they're at least somewhat useful. Nemeses just waste your time if you already have the weapons maxed as a result of trying to get the ephemera. They already tell you what weapon they'll give, so why not tell you when they'll give an ephemera?

[PsychoSunshine]

On 2024-08-25 at 2:23 AM, Momoque2 said:

LR4 engame things to do : complete your codex ( ennemies, objects, fragments, somachord), get all the mods, max every arcane of the game. You will see its fun.

Another LR4 endgame thing to do: fashion everything how you want. That kinda sucks when the ephemera that would complete your look is locked behind trading or spending hours literally just resetting the system so you can have another shot at it. I wouldn't even be complaining if I knew I didn't need to bother hunting a sister/lich I know I'm not getting anything from. Most mods and some arcanes aren't even worth having, let alone farming for. Case in Point: Residual arcanes. We have so many better options now. In contrast, some of the Sister ephemeras are unique enough to make a difference in how I want my Warframes to look, so locking attempts behind a reset feels terrible. I just want to try again without spending an hour stabbing hounds and an uninteresting bureaucrat.

Imagine if you wanted to fight a Grove Specter, you have to finish the Silver Grove quest, then find the Silver Grove again in a normal mission, spend your apothic, then the grove closes until you complete the quest again. That's how farming the ephemeras feels.

Also, who decided "bureaucrat" was spelled that way? Final boss of the spelling bee.

[PsychoSunshine]

On 2024-08-25 at 3:48 AM, LuckyNecro said:

I think even when they change something with the ephemeras the earlieast time they do it is with 1999 update and i hope for you that you have all the ephemeras at this time, so i think you can only deal with the system how it is now

Which is another reason I'm really excited for 1999. The infested nemeses probably already have them reviewing the system as a whole, so I'm cautiously optimistic they'll do something about the ephemera grind.