Valve’s new game Deadlock is what conclave could be

[Feltal]

There’s a lot of buzz in the pc gaming space as Valve’s secret project was finally quietly revealed to the public and is currently in closed early development testing. It’s a game that looks like a moba on the package, but the moba objectives are basically where it stops feeling like a moba. I know a lot of people are in the same boat I’m in as a shooter player who never liked mobas, but this game hooked me for a lot of the same reasons Warframe does.
Deadlock’s got a diverse cast of characters all with 4 abilities, some of these abilities seem really inspired by some of the same tropes Warframe has drawn on. An upgrade system during the game that feels kind of like decrees or mods, this is really just a moba thing as well but there’s the easy comparison to Warframe’s builds. Fast movement that is easy to learn but hard to master. Third person shooter perspective of course.

The game has me hooked and I’m not into mobas. I feel like if Deadlock really takes off once it releases—it probably will because it’s exploding right now and it still requires an invite—DE is in the perfect position to make a competitor with all the pieces Warframe has. It would obviously take a ton of balancing, but that’s something they’ve done before with the parallel but different conclave stats. Most of the design work is done.
I would play the heck out of a Warframe PvP game if it hit the nail on the head like Deadlock. I love the characters and the movement of Warframe and I love PvP team shooters. 
 

Anyone else enjoying Deadlock?

[dwqrf]

I haven't seen Deadlock yet and I'll have a look later after coming back home. Have you seen or played the old 'Smite', or later, 'Paragon' ?

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, Feltal said:

DE is in the perfect position to make a competitor with all the pieces Warframe has

While it is true DE had the resources and talent to make a good PvP shooter, what they don't have is the audience that wants to play it. Warframe's core play-every-day fans, both the 2013 founders and the 2024 newcomers, have made it very clear: they are not interested in PvP

It's been true for different reasons over the last decade, but always true. In 2014/2015 the MMORPG gold rush and CoD wannabe gold rush had both just collapsed and the game industry was in a bad hangover where single-player experiences were both on the rise. Fast forward to 2017 thru 2019 and the Battle Royale gold rush was in full swing -- Warframe stayed the course and completely ignored that, to their obvious benefit. Now in the early 2020's the game industry is packed with $70 live services games that all inevitably funnel players into a pay2win PvP lootbox mode, and Warframe keeps its audience by being genuinely free2play

Warframe gets its success by offering their own experience. They don't need to copy and chase an existing experience Valve is already offering

[Hobie-wan]

I do not want any MOBA contaminating Warframe and bringing toxicity with it. I liked playing old school PVP games, but only with people I knew IRL and mostly at LAN parties. A little trash talking from people I knew weren't serious was fine but even then people didn't get out of line and everyone was having fun. PVP over the years turned into SRS BZNS, racism, and outrage and sucked all the fun out. I hope it stays ignored in Warframe.

If you want to play PVP (of any sort), then go play any number of dedicated PVP games out there. Warframe should stay focused as a CO-OP/Solo experience and not divert developer resources.

[Feltal]

15 hours ago, dwqrf said:

I haven't seen Deadlock yet and I'll have a look later after coming back home. Have you seen or played the old 'Smite', or later, 'Paragon' ?

No I'm not a moba player, I played about 13 hours of Dota 2 11 years ago and was too overwhelmed and didn't like the top down map clicking movement.

7 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

While it is true DE had the resources and talent to make a good PvP shooter, what they don't have is the audience that wants to play it. Warframe's core play-every-day fans, both the 2013 founders and the 2024 newcomers, have made it very clear: they are not interested in PvP

It's been true for different reasons over the last decade, but always true. In 2014/2015 the MMORPG gold rush and CoD wannabe gold rush had both just collapsed and the game industry was in a bad hangover where single-player experiences were both on the rise. Fast forward to 2017 thru 2019 and the Battle Royale gold rush was in full swing -- Warframe stayed the course and completely ignored that, to their obvious benefit. Now in the early 2020's the game industry is packed with $70 live services games that all inevitably funnel players into a pay2win PvP lootbox mode, and Warframe keeps its audience by being genuinely free2play

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

If you want to play PVP (of any sort), then go play any number of dedicated PVP games out there. Warframe should stay focused as a CO-OP/Solo experience and not divert developer resources.

Sounds like you didn't know or don't remember—DE did take a shot with their Overwatch competitor "Keystone" or "The Amazing Eternals" in 2017. I played that closed alpha and I didn't think it was bad enough to be cancelled, but Deadlock also isn't Valve's first try as that game has been in development for the better part of 10 years at this point with multiple complete redesigns. First Deadlock was supposed to be a Half-Life game, then "Neon Prime," finally what it is now. The Amazing Eternals seriously looks like Unreal Tournament, Overwatch, and Deadlock had a baby. 

Now DE are diverting resources taking a shot at a soulslike with Soulframe which does not necessarily have the audience of Warframe's core fans. Mobas always have a massive audience that much is clear. This would be an opportunity to create a flanker/standalone game, call it "Conclave" and it could reuse a lot of the Keystone stuff with some of the more moba-friendly Warframes making cameos Smash Bros style. The earlier Warframe designs were more balanced for a PvP game. Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, Trinity, Ember, Nyx, Volt could slot right into a third person moba shooter like Deadlock. Heck, they've already got Mesa (Haze), Volt (Seven), and Frost (Kelvin) in Deadlock. 

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

I do not want any MOBA contaminating Warframe and bringing toxicity with it.

I believe Valve are cracking down on the toxicity early with Deadlock. DE can make PvP games, putting it directly in Warframe would definitely not be the right play. It would be cool if the game existed separately and hooked into your Conclave standing for the day though. 

Edited September 2 by Feltal

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Feltal said:

This would be an opportunity to create a flanker/standalone game, call it "Conclave" and it could reuse a lot of the Keystone stuff with some of the more moba-friendly Warframes making cameos Smash Bros style

"Separate game" is almost certainly a bad idea. I can think of one instance where it worked, but only one

Warframe is a game about hoarding loot. A separate game would mean veterans do not keep their existing loot, giving them no reason to move over and play it. If you don't get a happy install base, you can enter a death spiral very fast -- as the existing Conclave mode already attests to

But it's not inevitable, there was the one time it did work, that was Deep Rock Galactic. DRG is a first person shooter where you delve into alien-infested mines, mine the stuff, and use what you dig up to craft. You spend the first 30 or so hours crafting weapon upgrades, then you have all the weapon upgrades and spend the remaining infinity hours crafting cosmetics. Then they released a spinoff called DRG: Survivor which is a twin stick shooter where the upgrades and cosmetics from the original game just don't exist. Luckily the reception of Survivor has been positive and veterans were happy to give it a fair shake

[Venus-Venera]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Feltal:

There’s a lot of buzz in the pc gaming space as Valve’s secret project was finally quietly revealed to the public and is currently in closed early development testing. It’s a game that looks like a moba on the package, but the moba objectives are basically where it stops feeling like a moba. I know a lot of people are in the same boat I’m in as a shooter player who never liked mobas, but this game hooked me for a lot of the same reasons Warframe does.
Deadlock’s got a diverse cast of characters all with 4 abilities, some of these abilities seem really inspired by some of the same tropes Warframe has drawn on. An upgrade system during the game that feels kind of like decrees or mods, this is really just a moba thing as well but there’s the easy comparison to Warframe’s builds. Fast movement that is easy to learn but hard to master. Third person shooter perspective of course.

The game has me hooked and I’m not into mobas. I feel like if Deadlock really takes off once it releases—it probably will because it’s exploding right now and it still requires an invite—DE is in the perfect position to make a competitor with all the pieces Warframe has. It would obviously take a ton of balancing, but that’s something they’ve done before with the parallel but different conclave stats. Most of the design work is done.
I would play the heck out of a Warframe PvP game if it hit the nail on the head like Deadlock. I love the characters and the movement of Warframe and I love PvP team shooters. 
 

Anyone else enjoying Deadlock?

well. that's more for league of legends people. I don't like that sort of thing. these pointless 40+ minute games until good upgrades are unlocked put me to sleep.
I like team play games like return to castle wolfenstein. So medic-ammo-heavy units and then certain mission obj.

[Zakkhar]

It is pretty much DOTA2 but in Overwatch style.

Main problem is see with it is that it takes too long to play 1 round.

Main problem with any WF PvP is that Warframes are not created with PvP in mind (while Deadlock heroes are not created with PvE in mind).

Edited September 2 by Zakkhar

[LRonHoover]

As long as we're wishing for stuff, what I would like the most for a Warframe pvp moba would be a conclave mode that transports you into Super Monday Night Combat and if you win enough games, Lotus will transform into Mickey Cantor for regular warframe maps.

[Hobie-wan]

17 hours ago, Feltal said:

DE did take a shot with their Overwatch competitor "Keystone" or "The Amazing Eternals" in 2017.

And that went nowhere then when the market for MOBAs was less crowded. There are many more that have failed to gain a foothold even when they are dedicated games these days. But if they really wanted to try again, separate would be the way to go.

17 hours ago, Feltal said:

It would be cool if the game existed separately and hooked into your Conclave standing for the day though. 

If it just showed a number in WF as a "reminder" that there's this MOBA game over there, it'd be mostly pointless. If if gave you standing so you could spend it on the conclave cosmetics and mods, then it isn't separate.

17 hours ago, Feltal said:

I believe Valve are cracking down on the toxicity early with Deadlock.

It's invite only. Being at an early state where they're more likely to kick you out is probably going to make people behave a bit more.  But any sufficiently large pool will have turds floating in it. Warframe's community is still better than a lot of games that have grown and been around for a good while, but it has definitely gone downhill as time went on. Region chat has always had the occasional stupidity, but it happens more often now. I still somehow manage to mostly avoid AFKers and leechers when I run public squads, but do see them more and the forums seem to have more posts complaining about them as well.

[Feltal]

6 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

It's invite only. Being at an early state where they're more likely to kick you out is probably going to make people behave a bit more.  But any sufficiently large pool will have turds floating in it.

It's invite only but it's already hitting new peak player counts every day. Latest peak was 171k concurrent today. So the game is absolutely massive it's not like there isn't a large pool.

Quote

If it just showed a number in WF as a "reminder" that there's this MOBA game over there, it'd be mostly pointless. If if gave you standing so you could spend it on the conclave cosmetics and mods, then it isn't separate.

Probably go for the separate game entirely, I didn't really think it through. I like a number of the frames' kits that would work well with a third person moba in the Warframe universe.  I don't really care about the standing since I have all the skins it was just something I threw out there. 

Edited September 3 by Feltal

[Feltal]

19 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

It is pretty much DOTA2 but in Overwatch style.

Main problem with any WF PvP is that Warframes are not created with PvP in mind (while Deadlock heroes are not created with PvE in mind).

I don't think it plays like Overwatch at all. Plays totally like a moba but it has my attention because of the third person gunplay and movement. 

The older Warframes that haven't had huge reworks are built for PvP though as I said—Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, Trinity, Ember, Nyx, Volt, Ash, Vauban, Nova, Banshee.  New Warframes are jack of all trades though and seem to have a solution for everything, damage, defense, sometimes movement. 

[Zakkhar]

9 minutes ago, Feltal said:

I don't think it plays like Overwatch at all

I did not say it plays like Overwatch. It plays like Dota, it is just Third person.

[Feltal]

3 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

I did not say it plays like Overwatch. It plays like Dota, it is just Third person.

I don't get the Overwatch comparisons. It's closer to Warframe for the perspective, abilities, and movement, Bioshock Infinite for the sky hooks, Team Fortress 2 in the artstyle. 

[Zakkhar]

3 hours ago, Feltal said:

I don't get the Overwatch comparisons. It's closer to Warframe for the perspective, abilities, and movement, Bioshock Infinite for the sky hooks, Team Fortress 2 in the artstyle. 

Popularity. Plenty of people do not know TF2, skyhooks are pretty much everywhere. Shop doesnt fit any of those options. When you say "third person team based PVP moba shooter with cartoon graphics", people automatically think Overwatch, even though it dropped most of the Moba mechanics.

Edited September 3 by Zakkhar