begging in trade chat

[socio_trooper]

DE can u do some thing about thing about players begging in the trade chat ? , its getting past a joke , instead of working n playing the game to get parts to sell like everyone else all they are doing is asking for free plat of players , u sorted the nezza trap thing so why cant u sort this out ? 

[dwqrf]

I guess they are already way too busy trying dealing with people begging for features in the forums from people that could just close the chat and play the game.

 Ha ! 🙃

Edited September 2 by dwqrf

[KIREEK]

Begging doesn't violate any rules.
If you don't like it, you can always contact the users with alternatives (like incentivizing them to farm the item) or just ignore them, they aren't hurting anyone.

[MaxTunnerX]

As much as I hate seing beggars in the chat, the game calls for this and I dont want to discriminate them. Most people get in a mass recruiting clan and they get all the mods and gear they need for free from one or more of the clan members. The reason why beggars bother you is that you dont see this, because its all going on in clan chat or discord. The public chat beggars are just normal people without any clan who have no other way to get free stuff than to ask in chat (there are also professional re-sellers trying to get free stuff and sell it later tho). Of course one of the solutions would be for the game to not be so random and give newbies everything they need early on, but thats pretty much opposite of what the game wants now. And really, even if (and thats a big if) a newbie knows about warframe market, they will end up buying mods for like 3 platinum that are actually worth 0 platinum and people give them to each other for free. This also means the newbies will have to farm plat in the early game stage where they dont have any good way for it, they can only do lith relics and only if they have some. So yeah, its not all black and white.

Edited September 2 by MaxTunnerX

[Zakkhar]

12 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Most people get in a mass recruiting clan and they get all the mods and gear they need for free from one or more of the clan members.

Really? That defeats the whole purpose of the game. 

People beg for free stuff because there are players who give them free stuff. If the begging works to get them stuff, why work for it?

Edited September 2 by Zakkhar

[dwqrf]

il y a 13 minutes, Zakkhar a dit :

Really? That defeats the whole purpose of the game. 

People beg for free stuff because there are players who give them free stuff. If the begging works to get them stuff, why work for it?

People are so lazy they would beg to obtain a LR4 account and say "I finished the game, I'm really good !"...

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

16 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Most people get in a mass recruiting clan and they get all the mods and gear they need for free from one or more of the clan members.

Really? That defeats the whole purpose of the game. 

People beg for free stuff because there are players who give them free stuff. If the begging works to get them stuff, why work for it?

Maybe "work" is not great? Game is pretty good (at least later) farm wise but there are still horrible farms/grinds. They just screams "give me your skin money". Tennokai or Tome mods at C rotation (~20 minutes afair)? Or pay 100/140. Deimos' theorem/residual arcanes with 5 h waiting & horrible farm that it's either bugged & cannot do or no one does. Cortege/Morgha that requires multiple palces stuff? Or pay. Wait weeks for Incarnons or just pay... oh wait you cannot even pay. Tennet weapons... farm Holokeys. Toroids farm? You go spend few minutes doing nothing to raise alarms. You get toroid... wrong toroid. Your mistake. Go to other place. Wait for alarm to diminish and raise it again. For 20 minutes with booster get like 10 toroids. Octavia part from 20 minute survival before Circuit? Similar with Equinox' ~10 parts.

I'm LR3. I've played A LOT. It's normal for me to get some stuff without actually farming it. However if you are newer player and just want to get X then you can just spend doing e.g. one mission over and over. That's not great.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Really?

Yes, and not without cause. The game is so random that you can play every day and still not get a single critical chance/damage mod or something else you need for a good loadout while an average veteran has 100+ duplicates of this mod. So why exactly should you grind hours/days for something that has 0 value? Arbitration mods (galvanized) are powerful as hell and it takes stupid amount of time and effort to grind them (whole star chart + do the missions enough times to get the vitus), but only 20 plat to get them in trade. Now with a veteran account you can easily make plat so you can skip almost any grind you want (and I do that quite often cause its easier to farm the plat than the actual thing), but a newbie just cant do this, and believe me, Im also playing a low level account at the same time so I know how much it sucks to be new and without clan. I mean the game is actually better when youre low level, cause a lot of the things in the game become relevant and fresh, but Im talking about performance here and thats really weird and random when you dont interact with other people (trade/gift).

And one funny thing to end this with. Every time I asked for a duplicate of mod from someone, they immediately started giving me a lot more than that and I actually had to turn them down and say "Chill, Im actually a veteran and I want to keep this account fresh, I only need this one mod right now". And thats just random interactions. Anyone who enters a big clan automatically gets several prime sets and all the mods in the galaxy.

Edited September 2 by MaxTunnerX

[drakefrostex]

2 hours ago, socio_trooper said:

DE can u do some thing about thing about players begging in the trade chat ?

I believe cd exists for a reason.
I meant, it’s fine as long as the post isn’t disruptive, as one needs to wait before posting again.

It’s not like Trade Chat format is strictly WTB / WTS / WTT (what should I say, if I “want to have”?).

[Zakkhar]

7 minutes ago, quxier said:

Tennokai or Tome mods at C rotation (~20 minutes afair)?

Mirror Defence maybe, but Alchemy is pretty quick, especially solo in SP. I do not run Tome or Tome mods at all, so there is no need for any. 

9 minutes ago, quxier said:

Deimos' theorem/residual arcanes with 5 h waiting & horrible farm that it's either bugged

Do people use those? Wdym waiting? You do not wait, you do something else, log in later.

11 minutes ago, quxier said:

Cortege/Morgha that requires multiple palces stuff?

Not required for any progression. They are cool and all, but for me those were Mastery Fodder.

11 minutes ago, quxier said:

Wait weeks for Incarnons or just pay...

Pay to skip gameplay? No, thank you. It is not about reaching the goal, it is about the way to the goal. 

12 minutes ago, quxier said:

Tennet weapons... farm Holokeys.

Majorty of those are not good compared to the amount of grinding they require. Optional, skip.

15 minutes ago, quxier said:

Toroids farm?

Actually had a lot of fun doing that. Never used any boosters, but came prepared (never wrong place).

24 minutes ago, quxier said:

Octavia part from 20 minute survival before Circuit? Similar with Equinox' ~10 parts.

Of basic frames for me most frustrating was Trinity Systems really. I already had Trin Prime, so it was just for mastery but man... 14 minutes boss fight regardless if you play solo or in squad and regardless how good and efficient you are.

26 minutes ago, quxier said:

I'm LR3. I've played A LOT. It's normal for me to get some stuff without actually farming it. However if you are newer player and just want to get X then you can just spend doing e.g. one mission over and over. That's not great.

LR4 here. The question is, why does a new player want X? How does he know that he wants it? Does he really NEED it? You do not need to do one mission over and over, because you likely also NEED YZABCDEFG and H so there is plenty of other missions to run if you get bored/frustrated with this one. The newer you are the more stuff you still want/need and the more you can do. By getting stuff for free you are closing all those possibilities without ever experiencing them, Without experiecing the gameplay without the item and with it, you cannot really appreciate the difference they make.

[ApoXx95]

since I use WF market I didn't notice this becoming a thing but is it really this bad though? If I remember correctly, you are limited *still* to like one message every 60-120 seconds or so - that at least makes 'literal' spamming impossible.

 

but yeah it's one of the reasons why I switched - just a lot less stress. sure, occasionally there's a person who tries (despite WF market having fixed prices AND a betting feature) to 'negotiate down' the prices but it's you in the end who decides if you even wanna respond to that or not. 

I have no issue with gifting stuff I have heaps of occasionally, and I still do but it's a whole different thing if people are begging for it, it's just rude.

 

[Zakkhar]

51 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

The game is so random that you can play every day and still not get a single critical chance/damage mod or something else you need for a good loadout while an average veteran has 100+ duplicates of this mod. So why exactly should you grind hours/days for something that has 0 value?

If it has zero value, why do you need it? It doesnt have zero value at all. For you supply is 0, for those others it is 100+. But demand (usefulness) is high for both.

Sure they can give you one, but then you are robbing yoruself of feeling of progression.

If you do not experience the gameplay without it, you will not be able to appreciate that value. That is why you should spend some time grinding for it (or just play the game normally, you will get one eventually).

51 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Arbitration mods (galvanized) are powerful as hell and it takes stupid amount of time and effort to grind them (whole star chart + do the missions enough times to get the vitus)

I am sorry but doing whole star chart is the basic progression mechanics. You can pick and choose which missions you want - modes and bonus frames. Again. In order to appreciate the value of the mods you get this way, you need to be able to experience the gameplay without them. Enough of that gameplay so the difference is visible outside arsenal stats. There are limited amount of missions, there WILL be rrepetition inevitably. If you do not like that Warframe is not a game for you. The sooner you realise that the better.

51 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

but only 20 plat to get them in trade

How did you get that 20 plat? Real money (pay to skip gameplay) or prime farming (different 1-2 mission grinding) + trade? What is an alternate cost? Slots. Those cannot be farmed in game and MUST be bought for plat.

Have I given others stuff for free? Yes. Would I do it again? No. No items, I can do a mission carry.

Have I gotten something for free? Yes, Claw stance - yes, I asked for it. Do I remember who I got it from? No.

Anyway it is getting highly offtopic.

 

Edited September 2 by Zakkhar

[MaxTunnerX]

17 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

If it has zero value, why do you need it?

ZERO MONETARY VALUE for christs sake. The mod is super useful but the plat value of it is 0 is all I meant. And if you can buy something useful for 0 plat you sure as hell wont grind for it in an RNG system, unless you enjoy that particular activity. The biggest reason newbies waste hours and hours to get something like this is that they dont know you can get it any other way. Not to mention they mostly dont even know the wiki so they dont know where it drops and will most likely just give up and continue game with terrible builds because of it.

Edited September 2 by MaxTunnerX

[Voltage]

8 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Yes, and not without cause. The game is so random that you can play every day and still not get a single critical chance/damage mod or something else you need for a good loadout while an average veteran has 100+ duplicates of this mod. So why exactly should you grind hours/days for something that has 0 value? Arbitration mods (galvanized) are powerful as hell and it takes stupid amount of time and effort to grind them (whole star chart + do the missions enough times to get the vitus), but only 20 plat to get them in trade. Now with a veteran account you can easily make plat so you can skip almost any grind you want (and I do that quite often cause its easier to farm the plat than the actual thing), but a newbie just cant do this, and believe me, Im also playing a low level account at the same time so I know how much it sucks to be new and without clan. I mean the game is actually better when youre low level, cause a lot of the things in the game become relevant and fresh, but Im talking about performance here and thats really weird and random when you dont interact with other people (trade/gift).

And one funny thing to end this with. Every time I asked for a duplicate of mod from someone, they immediately started giving me a lot more than that and I actually had to turn them down and say "Chill, Im actually a veteran and I want to keep this account fresh, I only need this one mod right now". And thats just random interactions. Anyone who enters a big clan automatically gets several prime sets and all the mods in the galaxy.

Yep. There are lots of spoiling that goes on in this game because everybody assumes it's "helping" the other party, and so many items are oversaturated.

Personally I'm in the boat that sees this behavior as robbing newer players of their progression journey.

It's really easy to just not engage with this and ignore it. It only hurts the player asking for all this stuff to be honest (and the person giving them these items losing potential Platinum). It's not really a big deal or anything.

Edited September 2 by Voltage

[Zakkhar]

10 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

And if you can buy something useful for 0 plat you sure as hell wont grind for it in an RNG system, unless you enjoy that particular activity.

Two things. 1st thing I already mentioned.

You need to be able to feel the difference of experience between having it and not having it to appreciate its value. If you get it imidiately, you cant. At least until you get to Grendel missions. Being OP at the start also robs you of the possibility to learn the game, when you are at the disavantage. This way we get people in SP, who do not understand basic mechanics: like headhshots, shield gate, soft cover, ammo conservation etc as well as mission mechanic (enemy spawns).

Satisfaction (dopamine mechanism). The harder is something to get the more satisfying is the moment when you finally get it. If you get it without any effort or time invested it just doesnt mean anything to you. 

If you want your game to become a chore, it is a good strategy.

 

Edited September 2 by Zakkhar

[MaxTunnerX]

4 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Two things. 1st thing I already mentioned.

You need to be able to feel the difference of experience between having it and not having it to appreciate its value. If you get it imidiately, it becomes dull.

Satisfaction (dopamine mechanism). The harder is something to get the more satisfying is the moment when you finally get it. If you get it without any effort or time invested it just doesnt mean anything to you. 

If you want your game to become a chore, it is a good strategy.

 

Its literally about your goals, nothing else. For some people getting that mod might be the end goal. But for other people that mod is only the start of their journey so the sooner they get it, the better. Besides, if people want to beg for items and ruin their game (which is really debatable), then its their fault for doing it. Beg on your own risk. No need to make such a big deal out of it lmao.

Edited September 2 by MaxTunnerX

[Zakkhar]

3 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

For some people getting that mod might be the end goal. But for other people that mod is only the start of their journey so the sooner they get it, the better.

Both people are wrong, they just do not know it yet.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Tennokai or Tome mods at C rotation (~20 minutes afair)?

Mirror Defence maybe, but Alchemy is pretty quick, especially solo in SP. I do not run Tome or Tome mods at all, so there is no need for any. 

How much quicker?

 

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Deimos' theorem/residual arcanes with 5 h waiting & horrible farm that it's either bugged

Do people use those?

I wanted to test them. I've made topic about them:

They may work okeish in lower level.

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Wdym waiting? You do not wait, you do something else, log in later.

What if you don't have anything to do THAT YOU WANT TO DO? I wanted farm whole sets of those arcanes because at low level they are not great (e.g. 3 seconds of zone means you barely have any buff).

And login later or doing something else is waiting. You still wait for X to happen.

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Cortege/Morgha that requires multiple palces stuff?

Not required for any progression. They are cool and all, but for me those were Mastery Fodder.

It doesn't matter if they are mastery fodder or not. Most game doesn't require 90+% of gear. Does it mean that every gear can take 1 year to build/farm? Obviously not.

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Wait weeks for Incarnons or just pay...

Pay to skip gameplay? No, thank you. It is not about reaching the goal, it is about the way to the goal. 

Hahaha. Spending 4 hours every week doing exactly the same is not fun. If they make it less grindy and give us different stuff then it would be fine. The goal, or rather rewards are what is "interesting" (at least some incarnons are).

I would rather play hour in Duviri than Circuit.

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Tennet weapons... farm Holokeys.

Majorty of those are not good compared to the amount of grinding they require. Optional, skip.

Again, whenever they are good or bad it's up to player.

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

I'm LR3. I've played A LOT. It's normal for me to get some stuff without actually farming it. However if you are newer player and just want to get X then you can just spend doing e.g. one mission over and over. That's not great.

LR4 here. The question is, why does a new player want X? How does he know that he wants it? Does he really NEED it? You do not need to do one mission over and over, because you likely also NEED YZABCDEFG and H so there is plenty of other missions to run if you get bored/frustrated with this one. The newer you are the more stuff you still want/need and the more you can do.

Player wants to have power to have agency over their actions. If all you are doing is just shooting without doing any proper damage then it doesn't matter if it's Mars or Void. You get bored because you are doing similar things.

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

By getting stuff for free you are closing all those possibilities without ever experiencing them, Without experiecing the gameplay without the item and with it, you cannot really appreciate the difference they make.

Sure, there are some places where I appreaciate being less powerful. I liked old MR tests or Junctions fights.

On other hand if you need to spend HOURS then it becomes boring.

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Sure they can give you one, but then you are robbing yoruself of feeling of progression.

Rather than progression it's feeling of "not good".

When I build frame, experience and master it (or at least feel comfortable with it) it's kind of "progression". I feel like I achieved something. Spending few hours and randomly getting mod is just "I get lucky" or "FINALLY THAT DROPPED".

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Being OP at the start also robs you of the possibility to learn the game, when you are at the disavantage. This way we get people in SP, who do not understand basic mechanics: like headhshots, shield gate, soft cover, ammo conservation etc as well as mission mechanic (enemy spawns).

Being week prevents you to use & learn mechanics.

You have frame withotu energy. You cannot cast abilities too often. You don't know them almost at all. You get energy but you don't have range/strength/duration? Some abilities are or were not great. I remember base SEvagoth some time ago that 1+2 doing NOTHING (except for gathering "currency" to change forms).

You have gun without mods. You sometimes proc status with e.g. 10% status chance. You don't understand status till you get enough +status_chance mods (or better weapon).

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Satisfaction (dopamine mechanism). The harder is something to get the more satisfying is the moment when you finally get it. If you get it without any effort or time invested it just doesnt mean anything to you. 

If you want your game to become a chore, it is a good strategy.

"Harder to get" is not always great. It needs to be balanced. Every time you get something you need to raise the bar. It needs to be "harder" because to "feel something" you need more Dopamine than before. When you don't rest (and reset/reduce dopamine) you need more and more (or harder) triggers. It can cause some issues. That's why game have action & rest phases. I bet you know that but some may not know this so I've mentioned it.

And it's not always harder but more time consuming. Spending 4 hours (total) in SP circuit is not harder. It's just time consuming. There is no "it's so hard but I beat it".

The last thing is how interesting & good reward is. Say you have 2 cookies. One is your average price cookie. Other is 100x more expensive. Both are same cookies. They taste the same. Do you get satisfaction of being able to spend too much on simple cookie? Sure, some of you will be. For others they are just cookies. Both have same satisfaction level. When they make copy-paste items then I don't get more satisfaction from obtaining them. It's tied to MR ranks and that's make it more a chore than getting item for free.

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

For some people getting that mod might be the end goal. But for other people that mod is only the start of their journey so the sooner they get it, the better.

Both people are wrong, they just do not know it yet.

They are wrong because you say so? Guess it doesn't matter that they are having fun. No. They just have to do "your way" or they cannot have fun.

[ominumi]

The irony is there's more beggars in Trade chat than other tabs. Region chat has more activities but less beggars.

[MaxTunnerX]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

They are wrong because you say so? Guess it doesn't matter that they are having fun. No. They just have to do "your way" or they cannot have fun.

This lol. That guy doesnt seem to understand the concept of opinions and like/dislike dynamic.

Edited September 2 by MaxTunnerX

[MaxTunnerX]

33 minutes ago, ominumi said:

The irony is there's more beggars in Trade chat than other tabs. Region chat has more activities but less beggars.

Well if thats the case (I dont know), then its working as intended and people are "buying" things for 0 platinum. However, I have personally seen several beggars spam trade, recruit, help and region chats at the same time begging for free items and those I reported of course. Theres a big difference between needing help and just being
a greedy/lazy/spoiled a-hole. Also Im pretty sure region chat is disabled by default, which would explain why you see fewer of them there.

Edited September 2 by MaxTunnerX

[MrDugan]

I don't even see them, because I have a filter set up to only see people looking to buy things.  If I want to buy something, I know exactly what it is, so I have no reason to ever see what anyone is selling.  I just advertise "I want this thing.  Sell it to me."  Because of the filters the game provides, I had no idea this was even a thing that was happening.

And while I get that it's annoying, it also doesn't break any rules.  I think people selling mid rivens for a paycheck's worth of plat is annoying.  I think people that purposefully bypass my filter by putting something like "wtb nothing" are extremely annoying.  But there's nothing I want done about it.  That's just humans.  Humans are annoying.  You gotta live with it.