Please Buff The Embolist Asap.

[Anarties]

Surprised this thread did not die or get locked.

 

Glad we kept it civil.

 

It is still bad that this gun is frame locked.

 

It is namely supposed to be a poison Ignis so 10m wouldn't break the gun nor would it make the gun OP and everyone would band wagon it.

 

It would actually help my sniper loadout more than anything.

 

It's not a bad weapon but ammo consumption and range are just crippling...

[Dalu__Ka]

This weapon isn't frame locked, in any way, shape or form.

[Ventura_Highway]

Not in need of an upgrade imo.

Works well with people that can get up close.

Stings like hell when it hits.

[ValhaHazred]

Embolist is currently the best melee weapon in the game :P

But seriously, I've been using it heavily the last few days and it's fantastic!

[Riccoshot]

(forgive my spelling)

 

Here's some of my thoughts:

- you don't use things that can get you potentually killed on a high level missions (like 50-55+ level alerts), don't you?

Will i bring there any squishy character and rush right into the enemies to spray them from the Embolist? I will not. Will i bring a Gorgon or Supra with a squishy characters to a high level mission, shoot the mobs and then reload for 4 secs, right in the room with the enemies that able to put me down in a seconds? I will not. So why are you trying use an argument 'run a *highlevelnumberhere* corpus/grineer mission' with Embolist and don't get killed? I can do it, but i will use the things (Ash/Loki/Vauban/Trinity's Blessing) that don't get me killed in this situation. And i'm okay with it.

 

- as was mentioned by some people here 10m range will be enough (but from what i'm using it, i'm okay with the current one), THOUGH it's currently a rank 8 weapon, so i would expect i bit more DPS from what i saw on the DPS table on reddit - a small buff will make a deal (like increasing base damage from 150/s to 160/s (or any number what fits here)) OR if it will not get buffed, reducing mastery rank to 6 or 7.

 

- ammo consumption: i mentioned this somewhere - i wish weapons to have more unique stats, now we got damage 2.0 that split some weapons to more impact/puncture/slash etc., but still it does not considers that various weapons runs out of ammo very fast for no reason when compared to others, so it's just about to make them like - this one is 5/100, this one is 20/200, this one is 150/750, this one is 50/350, etc

Current Embolist ammo consumption can be okay only when you're using ammo mutator and Carrier, who eats all the ammo for you. Alternatively, if Nekros will spam Desectate it should work even w/o a Carrier.

 

So the summary is (at least for me):

- Embolist could use some tweaks - a bit of range, a bit of damage (just a bit really), ammo capacity tweaks.

- It does depend on character/skills/mission type/mission location you using/running, so does some other weapons. If you're okay with it (like me) - then we're good. If you're not okay with it - i can't do anything with it.

 

And a random video, which show... maybe nothing to you, but it shows how i use it and why i'm okay with it.

Xini, wave 34, level 110 infested. One Vauban (my buddy), one Ember (me). My sentinel got killed when Toxic decided to hug me, so no sentinel gun involved here - just Vortex damage (doubt that it caused any significant damage) and Embolist with Blast & Corrosive damage (i'm still looking how to improve it, and i know that Blast is effective, while Corrosive just dealing base damage, but that's how i rolled that time).

 

 

(if it doesn't shows for you, here's a link):

Edited December 4, 2013 by Riccoshot

[Parinirvana]

The Embolist is fine as it is, needs more damage. I use a primary with Embolist as a melee substitute and use Glaive Prime for range snipe.... Now tell me if this loadout is also not in your liking and you still want to change the gun until "you" like it.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Hi,

 

I just thought if the old combo with electric shield for more range still works. See for yourself.

(I'm sry, I'm playing with downsampling so the numbers are really small, but you can see them)

 

 

 

You don't get (and never got in the first place, even before U11) infinite range for ranged weapons but it boosts the range a lot.

 

Somehow it is difficult to see, if I get full damage out of it or if it screws with the elemental combinations because it adds electric damage.

 

Concerning arguments against the buff of range. I assume it's people thinking: Hey, if I can do it and other people don't and want a buff, then I'm pro. ;P

 

Because logic dictates that more range is better for the weapon and balancing to other weapons... come on guys, it's Embolist, a freaking costly rank 8 weapon.

 

It's not like your standard Soma/Galatine/Vasto/scarf styl0r-combo.

Edited December 5, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Empiren]

im sorry. allow me to clarify: my embolist works fine on my valkyr with no health, no armor, no shield, and no moves aside from rip line.

 

my embolist works fine on my valkyr in tier 1,2, and 3.

 

my embolist works fine on my valkyr in OD survival 50 minutes+

 

My embolist works on my valkyr because i dont sneer at a frame like some elitest and instead take my time to truly experiment with what im working with instead of tossing it aside because of a flaw or two or five.

 

Yeah....sorry, we just don't take you seriously.

 

Valkyr is probably the squishiest frame, unless you have your teamates setting you up, what you are saying is either a lie or an exaggeration.

 

It really isn't about "elitism" or whatever you want to call it, it's just the fact that valk is a squishy frame and enemies have auto-aim for the most part.

 

I'd love to see a video of you sollowing T3(or above) content with a VALK/Embolist, but we all know you won't do that.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Empiren

[Ventura_Highway]

I have to note that with the addition of starchart completion to mastery point, rank 8 isn't as big a deal.

I went up a full rank after u11 was implemented, from 8 to 9.

[Empiren]

I have to note that with the addition of starchart completion to mastery point, rank 8 isn't as big a deal.

I went up a full rank after u11 was implemented, from 8 to 9.

yeah, it really isn't after you've gotten to 8.  Which is ok, but the clan weapons do take a rather hefty amount of resource gathering and "researching".

 

But this applies to much more than just the embolist, so ?_? I can't really make this embolist specific

[holyicon]

Once again I make a video with questionable contextual value to this debate!

But somebody said run a T3 Capture with Valkyr + Embolist ... so that's what I did ... solo.

My conclusion:

holyicon's cowardice > holyicon's skill.

Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Peace!

Edited December 5, 2013 by holyicon

[SIDESTRE4M]

You see, avoiding fights is not the best advertising for a weapon. xD

The heavies would have given you a beating, but then again, I'm not sure if a bit more range would have solved the problem in this case.

However, the premise mustn't be soloing entire missions with a secondary. If you had drawn your Lanka from time to time, it would have been fine.

If all, those videos demonstrate the shortcomings of Embolist. Taking it as a challenge to use a weapon is a thing for the people themselves but not for thr viability of a weapon.

That said, Lato and Sicarus would be good endgame weapons as well, if challenge isvthe premise.

Edited December 5, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[holyicon]

You see, avoiding fights is not the best advertising for a weapon. xD

The heavies would have given you a beating, but then again, I'm not sure if a bit more range would have solved the problem in this case.

However, the premise mustn't be soloing entire missions with a secondary. If you had drawn your Lanka from time to time, it would have been fine.

If all, those videos demonstrate the shortcomings of Embolist. Taking it as a challenge to use a weapon is a thing for the people themselves but not for thr viability of a weapon.

That said, Lato and Sicarus would be good endgame weapons as well, if challenge isvthe premise.

Oh I agree. I think ultimately by forcing myself to use only the Embolist, it showed when it was a good idea to and when it was not a good idea to. And in the cases where I had rang and liberty to fire, it did well enough damage-wise to get the job done in a non-scaling T3.

Those opportunities increase in frequency (as you've alluded) when with teammates, and should not be forced when your load-out is balanced with a good ranged weapon like a Lanka (or in my Case Snipetron Vandal).

This is a Co-Op game after all, and you're not expected to get everything done with one weapon.

That said, I think there's still wiggle room in the debate for a buff to Embolist's range. Certainly not to the degree of 20m, imho not really even 10m. I think 8m should be sufficient.

Because when I'm playing seriously, with my friends, we methodically work a room like a SWAT team, and if I'm equipped with an Embolist. I use it almost exclusively for countering rushes (read: Scorpions, Shockwave MOAs and Infested). And leave the meaty part of the fighting to my rifle or shotgun. ^^

[SIDESTRE4M]

That co-op part online-wise is debatable. I have the impression that most players are rather concerned in orange numbers in the result table and not teamwork.

Opposed to that, I had some nice rounds, even if it is the minority of games.

I did some missions with Embolist, too. Volt has the shield range boost advantage but you can also utilize speed and use Enbolist to get close to enemies.

I learned, that it's a good gun for trashmobs.

[ObviousLee]

Yeah....sorry, we just don't take you seriously.

 

Valkyr is probably the squishiest frame, unless you have your teamates setting you up, what you are saying is either a lie or an exaggeration.

 

It really isn't about "elitism" or whatever you want to call it, it's just the fact that valk is a squishy frame and enemies have auto-aim for the most part.

 

I'd love to see a video of you sollowing T3(or above) content with a VALK/Embolist, but we all know you won't do that.

sorry but this is not a valkyr frame thread, and i see no others on THIS thread that share your sentiment, just you, so there IS no "we", just "you"

 

and as for the attempt at calling me a liar? you are MORE than welcome to join me in ANY game and see for yourself that just because you aren't thinking outside the box, does not mean it's neither impossible, or that i myself am not thinking outside the box.

 

btw: i take calling me a liar with extreme vehemence, and had you said that to me in person, i more than likely would have reacted violently. you don't know me dude, you know next to nothing about me, so don't go making any judgement calls when you've NEVER ran a SINGLE game with me.

Edited December 5, 2013 by ObviousLee

[Empiren]

sorry but this is not a valkyr frame thread, and i see no others on THIS thread that share your sentiment, just you, so there IS no "we", just "you"

 

and as for the attempt at calling me a liar? you are MORE than welcome to join me in ANY game and see for yourself that just because you aren't thinking outside the box, does not mean it's neither impossible, or that i myself am not thinking outside the box.

 

btw: i take calling me a liar with extreme vehemence, and had you said that to me in person, i more than likely would have reacted violently. you don't know me dude, you know next to nothing about me, so don't go making any judgement calls when you've NEVER ran a SINGLE game with me.

 

Again, I don't believe you. You can take that however you want, or act like i'm being "elitist" about it(even though valk is known for being squishy), but that's "just my opinion".

The whole "you don't know me" thing I always found very childish, I don't presume to know you, I just presume to know the limits of the Valk frame. Don't take it personally, as it wasn't meant to be. You have no proof and the logical side of things(knowing valk's and the embolist shortcomings) disagrees with what you posted.

 

Feel free to post a vid or something though, instead of doing the whole "drama" bit.

--------------

 

To the other people, look: Asking for a 10m range buff(or even a wider cone) would be all that's needed. I just think the gun is lacking where it should not be, given the rank/resource requirement and would promote people to actually build it, instead of going "nah, i got a brakk"

[SIDESTRE4M]

I don't think this thread will ever come to a conclusion.

 

Ok. Me beeing serious, I would go as far to split the factions in two categories:

 

Faction A: We can get along with Embolist and just seeing other people wanting a buff makes us feel superior because with our skill, we don't need a buff. Learn2play. (please don't try to tell me it's so fine and stuff and it is like having a challenge... give me a break)

 

Faction B: Upset/Disappointed with the Embolist for <insert reason here> and thus wanting a buff.

 

Ok. I may exaggerate a bit but if you guys look at it, that's the essence of this entire thread. So, how to solve the problem? No solving. Just move on and hope your wishes (or non-wishes for that instance) will be heard by DE and that's it.

 

If Embolist don't get buffed, I don't care that much, because I can either use it like it already is, but would be thanfull for maybe another one or two meters range.

Edited December 5, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Empiren]

I don't think this thread will ever come to a conclusion.

 

Ok. Me beeing serious, I would go as far to split the factions in two categories:

 

Faction A: We can get along with Embolist and just seeing other people wanting a buff makes us feel superior because with our skill, we don't need a buff. Learn2play. (please don't try to tell me it's so fine and stuff and it is like having a challenge... give me a break)

 

Faction B: Upset/Disappointed with the Embolist for <insert reason here> and thus wanting a buff.

 

Ok. I may exaggerate a bit but if you guys look at it, that's the essence of this entire thread. So, how to solve the problem? No solving. Just move on and hope your wishes (or non-wishes for that instance) will be heard by DE and that's it.

 

If Embolist don't get buffed, I don't care that much, because I can either use it like it already is, but would be thanfull for maybe another one or two meters range.

 

Well faction B Has put numerous post suggesting how to buff it. 

 

Bit of a  nihilist there aint'cha?

[holyicon]

I don't think this thread will ever come to a conclusion.

 

...snip...

If Embolist don't get buffed, I don't care that much, because I can either use it like it already is, but would be thanfull for maybe another one or two meters range.

+1

Can I be in implied "Faction C" too?: Gets both sides of the argument and would be perfectly happy if Embolist got a buff or remained as-is, so long as neither resulted in a nerf.

 

Well faction B Has put numerous post suggesting how to buff it. 

 

Bit of a  nihilist there aint'cha?

As the guy who posted the vid running a T3 Capture with Valkyr+Embolist, I can both agree and disagree with this whole exchange to varying degrees. Possible: yes. Profitable: not really. Enjoyable: occasionally.

For what I expect out of my Embolist under (what I consider) "Normal" missions conditions, it pulls its own weight, but I cannot ask any more of it than that. IMHO it is an amazing side-arm with great choke-point suppression, but it is not al all-purpose weapon. I'd be happy with +2m to the range, but like I said before, I'm fine with it not getting that either. Not because I feel I'm so great, but because I understand the weapon's performance profile.

For contrast, if I was using a shotgun, I would be more likely to side-arm Vasto, Lex or Seer. Because that complements the build. I'm not asking those side-arms to do what my shotgun could do. When I do use my Embolist seriously, It's with a Sniper Rifle and a Throwing Melee weapon; again, a complementary build.

 

 

 

That's about all I have to say on the matter. Good luck to whoever wins.

[SIDESTRE4M]

@Empiren: Hey, it's mot, that I'm not agreeing with a buff.

We aren't talking about the Soma or Brakk.

Buff the Grakata? Cool.

Buff the Supra? Cool.

Buff the Brakk? No.

Buff the Soma? No.

Embolist is nowhere nere where Brakk or Soma or other weapons are. It's damge is not the problem, it's is usability which limits the player to an extreme degree without delivering that extreme damage. And that is just my opinion, mind you. I won't set it in stone.

In this thread numerous people boast how they can work arround it and are proud of it while other people just want a better weapon.

The problem is, that arguments are circling arround and every buff idea is countered by: "Look, I can do it without a buff".

To a certain degree it sure is hilarious, how persistant people can be. You fail to realize that you won't make it right to those kind of people because most of them would rather die than to change their opinion after those harsh dialog.

There are some people who are rather neutral like that guy who made all those videos and me I guess.

You and probably DE don't need a complete consens to consider a buff or a nerf. The devs or community manager look up the arguments and they are capapable of making decisions without blindly following some forum users. They are human though, so they can make mistakes too.

To make my point clear: You don't know whom you are arguing with. It can be a 13 year old or a 40 year old dude. That doesn't have to mean anything because there are people in their fourties with a mindsetting that is still 13 years old but that's life.

So there is no way to get worked up so much over some forum posts. This discussion has become very hostile so, it won't come to consens.

Edited December 6, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Loubbo]

Just going to have to chime in again on a completely unrelated note after that last post... Yeah, don't touch my supra. It is the epitome of balance with being exceptional strong in one aspect with minor flaws. This is how all weapons should be.

 

And I suppose since I'm here anyway... On a related note DE I assume made this gun with a vision of massive short damage aoe. Keep it that way, if you really must buff it in anyway increase the damage and widen the cone. Do not change the range, that is its flaw. It's a pseudo melee/range weapon that should be high risk and high reward. And I repeat increasing the range to 10m simply makes it all the more easier to laugh at Ancients and Heavy Gunners with their CC. This is not about because we are "elitist" it's because its a fun and viable weapon already that rewards good teamwork/cc and loudouts.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Loubbo

[SIDESTRE4M]

Supra changed after U11, I got that too. Then maybe Supra is the wrong example. It suddenly came to my mind because of all the buff supra threads in the past.

High risk/high reward. Embolist is usable, I give you that. Maybe 10m is too much asking, but I'm not so sure if the reward is high enough to justify its really short range.

However just like I said, I can use it too, so I'm not thinking it is too bad after all. I like the Idea of the cone spread increase kinda more than range, I guess. That feels more like the Embolist should be.

However (that word again...^^) I do think that the argument with the Ancients and Heavies is not valid, because you normally want to have a balanced setup so I assume if one is using Embolist, he has a primary that excels somehow in ranged combat.

There aren't weapons with shorter range except melee so I assume again, that one wouldn't switch to Embolist to take out heavies if there is the tactical option for ranged weapons.

You play it safe if you can. You always do because your team gets in a pinch if they have to revive you inmidst those heavies if your plan fails.

That however is not neccessarily a reason to buff the range of Embolist because I don't feel like its purpose is to defeat heavies (at least without a plan or strategy like vortex or whatever) but rather smash groups of trashmobs.

Edited December 6, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Asynaptic2]

I've already made points in my OP as to why I dislike the range.

 

Feel free to leave my thread anytime you'd like since you don't understand that the Embolist will get you killed against Grineer and Corpus especially if they come in droves. 

 

If they don't fix the Embolist then it's fine. I still have my Brakk which is infinitely more useful to my Vectis than the Embolist.

 

Umm In case you have not noticed by now --- In fact you no longer have your Brakk!!

It got nerfed (precisely serious range drop off) by the same mind set that is howling against making the embolist reasonably useful.

 

There is a faction in this game that loudly and vociferously opposes any improvement to any weapons.

 

So should you ever get this exorbitantly expensive weapon to perform commensurate with its cost as a useful end game weapon (and by end game I do not mean on Xini), then trust me - there will be howls and screams of OP OP OP and Nerf nerf nerf!!!

 

For those who think a weapon is too powerful - take it off!

No one is making you use it.

Is your frame too buff? Remove the mods!

Want a greater challenge? Go solo high levels with the furax!

 

There was a time not so long ago in games where people actually did exactly that type thing for the fun and challenge of it.

I am really not sure where the "If I don't want it - then you can't have it" attitude in this game comes from, but it is extremely pervasive.

If some folk don't want decent powerful weapons then just don't build them - easy.

Thank you -

An my condolences about your Brakk -

[ObviousLee]

Umm In case you have not noticed by now --- In fact you no longer have your Brakk!!

It got nerfed (precisely serious range drop off) by the same mind set that is howling against making the embolist reasonably useful.

 

There is a faction in this game that loudly and vociferously opposes any improvement to any weapons.

 

So should you ever get this exorbitantly expensive weapon to perform commensurate with its cost as a useful end game weapon (and by end game I do not mean on Xini), then trust me - there will be howls and screams of OP OP OP and Nerf nerf nerf!!!

 

For those who think a weapon is too powerful - take it off!

No one is making you use it.

Is your frame too buff? Remove the mods!

Want a greater challenge? Go solo high levels with the furax!

 

There was a time not so long ago in games where people actually did exactly that type thing for the fun and challenge of it.

I am really not sure where the "If I don't want it - then you can't have it" attitude in this game comes from, but it is extremely pervasive.

If some folk don't want decent powerful weapons then just don't build them - easy.

Thank you -

An my condolences about your Brakk -

agree'd with this completely. its really sad to see DE listening to people who don't have the weapon, therefore don't have to live with the change but hey, they're satisfied, so by logic we who have the brakk should be just as satisfied, because hey, they got what they wanted.

[VentiGlondi]

I'd rather stay with this embolist than have range increased and then damage reduced due to some people being upset at embolist being too strong.