Fleeting Expertise Is Too Good Not To Use, And Game Breaking. (With Math)

[DeejayPwny]

The balance is the mods spaces required to balance it.

[DBugII]

25 Energy Rhino Stomps.

 

4 4 4 4 4

 

Edit: It's a balanced mod considering how it cuts duration.

Edited December 6, 2013 by DBugII

[VentiGlondi]

nerf this, nerf that, not one mention of a Buff

I think you might want to see every single Valkyr thread and pre U11 Volt threads.

[AmmoRejected]

Nothing is wrong with Fleeting Expertise. There are frames like Ember that I won't even apply Fleeting Expertise to, because range is everything for a frame like that. Granted, I'd love to have the ability to spam WoF 10 times in a row, but what's the use if it doesn't go past two feet? A well thought out counterweight to balance it. The abilities that duration heavily effects are the ones we don't need spammed, and if one decides to nerf their range so badly just to spam it then so be it, let that short-lived high-energy (in the end) spammer spam.

 

In the same token as a previous player mentioned, putting such on a Rhino will render Charge useless, as will it render that of some of the other warframes. So I can spam Stomp 10 times with a massive range? That depends on your definition of spam. If you mean use it on level 90+ enemies it does not insta-kill anymore, nor can it be used again until it wears off or everything trapped is dead. Sorry, if energy runs out you're pretty well screwed. With extremely high level enemies you have to focus-fire just to down the ones in stasis, nevermind the hordes that just walked in the room like it was their own. Fleeting Expertise is not OP when the abilities it lets you spam don't cut it anymore, at that point nothing is OP and all you can rely on is your team to concentrate. -- OH MY GOD! "Team" play? who would have thought?! As it turns out when you stop noobing at low-level crap you actually NEED a team, and to coordinate for things such as simply killing or, God help you, making an Oxygen run.

 

I have never used a Trinity, but I've been farming for one more recently. What you (the OP) seem to have done is taken a singular warframe's singular ability and applied it to a singular instance that might or might not be unbalanced. If you will remember Trinity is a support frame, and a player has to spend a LOT of time, credits and cores to collect and build such a duration-based frame; Remember someone has to collect those mods, it doesn't just appear in the 'trade' tab, nor is it cheap when it does. Now remember that when it even becomes needed (at extreme-high levels) if it's forgotten ONCE the whole team wipes quickly. I don't know about you, but I like to play high-level, so what's the point in letting the levels go so high if everything that allows a player to go to such is nerfed to hell and back? Slowly but surely with all the nerf-beggers you are systematically implementing a level cap (the one DE didn't put on Defense/Survival) via inability to go higher. Please leave this nerf out, thanks.

 

 

Also we don't take anything non-30 into high-level as that's very stupid. I'm not gaining ANYTHING from going so high, nor is my team. The loot table as it is ensures nobody sees oodles of profit. The credits gained are generic by mission, not by time/effort spent. In order to go so high you need max mods with polarities. This is profitless WITHOUT Trinity... How does having Trinity suddenly introduce profit to it? Oh, it doesn't, ok, so there's nothing gained. Why does it need nerfing again?

 

... omg, low post count... NOT crying for a nerf? I support fun, not nerfs. I support balance, not nerfs. Why do we nerf? because something is better than the rest. Well now it's nerfed, something else is the best? NERF IT TOO! I know this is beta and things change, but for the love of God stop nerfing everything and please start buffing a few things so that it doesn't get suckier but rather more things can compare.

 

Edit: Sorry for the post length. When I start typing it just flows forth.

Edited December 6, 2013 by AmmoRejected

[fatpig84]

Nothing is wrong with Fleeting Expertise. There are frames like Ember that I won't even apply Fleeting Expertise to, because range is everything for a frame like that. 

 

 

Fleeting E affects range ? :S

[yiN_]

na duration...

[NDroid]

I think you're overestimating the efficiency of this mod on many frames. Mentioning Frost whose primary tool is his Snow Globe, Ash who relies heavily on Smoke Bomb and Volt (now that he's more viable) who often uses either or both his Electric Shield and Speed- all of these require duration and are often modded with it in mind. Also, Rhino's Roar is a powerful endgame boost that benefits from it as well. Adding Narrow Minded won't help many frames either as range tends to be very important for most ult and CC skills. A Saryn that can spam Molt and Contagion isn't going to be of much use (although she has more serious issues right now anyway).

 

I agree that it's useful for certain frames that can sacrifice less effective skills like Mag and Nova. As for Trinity, I think that's more of a specific issue with her and the invincibility mechanic. I'm not sure whether it could be considered OP or not but using it to justify a global nerf is a bit much.

[Skaleek]

 That seems to be more of a trinity problem than fleeting expertise.

 

Thats actually a very good point. Why nerf something that interacts with only one warframe in a way that would be considered gamebreaking, rather than fixing the warframe that attains god mode from these mods?

[Archistopheles]

Why nerf something that interacts with only one warframe in a way that would be considered gamebreaking, rather than fixing the warframe that attains god mode from these mods?

 

I dunno, why did they change Heavy Calibur from recoil to accuracy instead of just fixing guns that didn't have any recoil?

[DeejayPwny]

I dunno, why did they change Heavy Calibur from recoil to accuracy instead of just fixing guns that didn't have any recoil?

.

Because a recoil would ruin the way those weapons worked. Changing abilities is much easier than rebuilding a weapon.

But again, Feeling Expertise is balanced, so it doesn't need a change.

Edited December 6, 2013 by DeejayPwny

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Fleeting Expertise is worthless on any Volt build that isn't raw, unadulterated casting.  I for one, actually like Speed which rather relies on duration.  To try to fix that with Narrow Minded would make Overload do less, so I'd have to fix that with Overextended, but that causes issues with damage, so now I'm having to bump up Blind Rage even more than I already have it, but that causes issues with efficiency.  So now, I've slightly boosted all my stats and hogged most of my mod slots.  No.

 

 

not one mention of a Buff, just nerf everything into obivion till theres nothing left, and then they complain to the Devs at how crappy the game is.

You need to get out more just search for buff threads on things like Volt who was laughably underpowered for most of the time since Overload got nerfed (which it needed seeing as how you could win Exterminate missions by pressing 4 once) back in what, early February?  Maybe you don't know what happens when underpowered things get implemented (original Dera and Ignis come to mind immediately): people cry for buffs.  Or how about the entirety of Damage 2.0 which was all about fixing the issues weapons that didn't have armor ignore had.  They overhauled the entire damage system of the game for the sake of a buff to most of the equipment in the game.

 

People ask for nerfs when one thing eclipses its peers and narrows the pool of viable options as a result.

 

That said, Fleeting Expertise may be extremely powerful on some, but definitely not all frames.

[TheStag]

You all can keep arguing if you want, but I will put in my 2 cents worth. Fleeting Expertise is not OP, but most of the time it is used to turn a frame into a "1 trick pony". The game is 500% more fun when you actually play like a ninja and use all the abilities in the game in my opinion. This is a mod that just makes the terrible grind a bit less terrible.

[LukeAura]

I usually like to make fun of myself in some way when someone mentions post count.

 

That is absolutely adorable. 

Yeah, Fleeting Expertise is a little strong. Especially if you consider that you're actually getting more effect per energy point. so in the case of a skill you don't care about coming out of, you can just, cast it again. This mod probably defines what makes some frames insane compares to others. 

 

[lautalocos]

Yeah it's perfectly ok.  What's the big deal?

 

If a trinity is on your team keeping you alive allowing you to keep killing and having fun what's bad about it?  It's only a chore for that person playing trinity.

 

I enjoy playing every warframe in this game, and each one has its place.  I do quite well with Trinity when I want to play support.  Is she the most fun frame to play?  No, because if you want to keep up that permanent invincibility you have to robotic-ally cast team heal over and over again.  It's still manually driven, and still prone to human error.

 

Have you forgotten that this is a game where the real fun is working together as a team?

 

About balance.  This mod is balanced and I guess I'll have to state the obvious here.  With Fleeting Expertise and Streamline you get a maximum of 75% energy efficiency with a 50% reduction in power duration.  Now.  I've this put on a Rhino before.  Rhino's charge only moves forward for 1 foot.  lol.  Which basically renders that ability useless.  So in other words, it breaks abilities in certain frames.  There's a TRADE-OFF for sure.  So many examples to show this.  Frames like Loki, Ash, etc. don't benefit from this combo at all.

 

Next...  If you do use it on a frame like Trinity where the power duration is key, you need to put on a continuity and constitution just to offset the Fleeting Expertise/Streamline combo.  You've used 4 slots already towards maximizing energy efficiency.

 

Why in the hell would your first post in these forums be to ask the devs to nerf something?  (I'm sorry to sound patronizing here, but most of us start with introductions, etc.)

 

If I sound brash towards you I apologize, but I've had enough of players who don't have hundreds of hours in this game and have some kind of pet peeve with something make a thread that causes a fun part of this game to be crippled/destroyed.

first, posts dont have anything to do with playtime. the forums say that your first time playing begins when you post your first comment or topic

"oh, i forgot to press 4 this time, everyone died. such diffuclt, much challenge"

 

that is the team work trinity needs. while in other games, the team work is:

 

- constantly paying attention to whatever is your teammates arent looking at. that way the team has eyes on every corner.

 

- help your teammatres if they are being overrun.

 

and the rest of the teamwork is specific to each game.

saying that it is robotic to play as trinity doesn´t mean she isn´t OP.

and with the logic of your post, you consider fun invicibility.

 

then, shouldnt DE release a mode where you cant die? its exactly the same. if it´s not, please explain why. you say that you found fun just to keep killing.

 

meanwhile, in every other game, the fun comes from overcoming challenges, even small ones. invinsibility destroys any challenge, considering that you can live forever without ever attacking.

[fatpig84]

You all can keep arguing if you want, but I will put in my 2 cents worth. Fleeting Expertise is not OP, but most of the time it is used to turn a frame into a "1 trick pony". The game is 500% more fun when you actually play like a ninja and use all the abilities in the game in my opinion. This is a mod that just makes the terrible grind a bit less terrible.

 

Loki is a disarming pony.

[ArmyOfFun]

I usually like to make fun of myself in some way when someone mentions post count.

 

Its so fluffy.

[Empiren]

Things to note:

Max streamline + fleeting experience to hit the cap is actually -40% duration, not -20%

 

Also, fleeting expertise caps at 5, not 6. So its 3/5.= the amount needed. Which is also -40% duration

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fleeting_Expertise

 

 

Also, you can't get it to 28.2 seconds due to the fleeting expertise debuff. Not to mention the OUTRAGEOUS cost for narrow minded max level.

 

Odds are that the average person will be able to get this up to maybe 15-20 seconds with all this build, which is still pretty low for trinity

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

first, posts dont have anything to do with playtime. the forums say that your first time playing begins when you post your first comment or topic

"oh, i forgot to press 4 this time, everyone died. such diffuclt, much challenge"

that is the team work trinity needs. while in other games, the team work is:

- constantly paying attention to whatever is your teammates arent looking at. that way the team has eyes on every corner.

- help your teammatres if they are being overrun.

and the rest of the teamwork is specific to each game.

saying that it is robotic to play as trinity doesn´t mean she isn´t OP.

and with the logic of your post, you consider fun invicibility.

then, shouldnt DE release a mode where you cant die? its exactly the same. if it´s not, please explain why. you say that you found fun just to keep killing.

meanwhile, in every other game, the fun comes from overcoming challenges, even small ones. invinsibility destroys any challenge, considering that you can live forever without ever attacking.

Please read my post carefully. Fun is playing together as a team.

I'm against nerfing this combo.

I never said fun equals invincibility. Don't put words in my mouth.

Edited December 7, 2013 by sushidubya

[Neinth]

The combo he's talking about includes the Aura helmet(25% duration)--depending on mod/levels it's 28.7 max seconds of Blessing.

 

Seeing as this post seems more about Blessing than fleeting expertise,I would like to point out,that to equip this 6 card combo,plus 2 cards to keep you standing more than laying down,and 2 more to give you some hit points,I personally had to forma my Trinity 4 times so far to fit it all in with decent level mods.To max them all,it would be another 2 forma's.

 

I'll agree Blessing needs a look at,that "bug" where people took damage to shields,I think that should be a feature,Trinity is a healer,and there is a frame already who can refill shields.And perhaps the range should be looked at,infinite range doesn't promote team play at all,Many times i have seen people die in the casting time,which is a little over 1 second btw,and there is no way to get to them because their so far away.I'm not sure which game you are playing,but in high level content,alot of damage can be dished out in the matter of 1 second.

 

Anyways make a thread asking to bring back shield damage on blessing,or nerfing the range,I'm with you.Hell I'd almost be on board if you asked to nerf the duration by 50%.

 

Nothing wrong with Fleeting Expertise though

[Inez]

So I checked the profile of a few of the players who want a "challenge" in warframe and find easy gameplay boring.

They all play Rhino.

Because, ya know, if you want a challenge in Warframe you play Rhino.

Or possibly they're hypocrites.

[Antonie_Van_Leeuwenhoek]

Even before Fleeting expertise, good trinity player can create nearly permanent invincibility if they can manage their energy right. Well... it's her role. Don't rage at frame who can't do any damage by herself please.

[AmmoRejected]

So I checked the profile of a few of the players who want a "challenge" in warframe and find easy gameplay boring.

They all play Rhino.

Because, ya know, if you want a challenge in Warframe you play Rhino.

Or possibly they're hypocrites.

 

As I'm the only one to stand up about a challenge, and a fair amount Rhino user I find that quite offensive. So the stats say Rhino, do they? I'm so glad you could make everyone aware of how you think Rhino immediately means Iron Skin Maniac. Do us a favor and actually know how people play before you assume the worst and start flaming them.

 

I use a Rhino most of the time with efficiency, damage and range maxed out (not duration) because Iron Skin is utterly worthless in the high-level. The stasis however, short so to be re-cast quickly, is very valuable in my experience. A short stasis to have a brief think-moment is infinitely better than wasting energy in an energy dump. You try applying Iron Skin when it gets stripped before the animation ends and then you tell me how Rhino removes the challenge, otherwise don't make unfounded accusations about high-level Rhino gameplay. Iron Skin is ONLY useful for farming, which you don't need if you play *drum roll* into the HIGH-LEVEL!

 

Apologies for off-topic, but it had to be said. It's not right to judge all players' frame choice based on how YOU play.

[Daysel]

I guess the developers thought the effect as they created.

I do not understand why they should nerf it now.

[lautalocos]

Please read my post carefully. Fun is playing together as a team.

I'm against nerfing this combo.

I never said fun equals invincibility. Don't put words in my mouth.

the combo makes you invincible.

 

as you dont want the combo nerfed, you obviously like invincibility.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

the combo makes you invincible.

 

as you dont want the combo nerfed, you obviously like invincibility.

 

No those two mods simply reduce energy cost.  They do not make any player invincible.

 

Trinity's blessing makes players invincible.  Trinity, when using this combo has greater access to casting blessing consecutively.

 

What's your beef with me?  Why must you put words in my mouth?  

 

Don't make any assumptions about me.  Check my in-game profile out if you're curious, but realize who you're trying to insult and compare that with yourself first.  Don't make things personal in a discussion about mods in a game.

 

The combo was already nerfed once when it was released and people could have 90% energy efficiency.

 

There are trade-offs with using this combo.

 

It doesn't exist solely for the purpose of making players invincible.  It has other uses.

 

Please add something useful/pertinent to this discussion rather than trying to attack me.

Edited December 7, 2013 by sushidubya