Remove/nerf That Stupid Damage Dropoff For Shotguns.

[Derethevil]

This is somehow the reason why nearly no one is using shotguns in Warframe.
Yeah the Brakk nerf was the nail in the coffin for my patience here.

But only because i've wasted to much time, waiting for a viable shotgun.

So here i go now and explain it in a way, every prejudiced "Brakk-Hater" should understand.

 

What would happen if you remove it?

It wouldnt make them "the endgame weapon".

 

Shotguns:

Hard hitting? Kinda.

Can hit every pellet from a distance? No.

Can hit multiple targets? Yes.

 

So you would need way more shots to actually kill that group.

 

Everything else (Special weapons not involved): 

Hard hitting? Yes.

Can hit every "pellet" from a distance? Yes.
Can hit multiple targets? Only if you are bad at aiming. Otherwise, no.

With this you need a few shots to kill your target.

 

 

So please tell me why there is this devastating damage dropoff system for shotguns.

A "reallife" dropoff system would be fine, but for gods sake its way over the top.

A real shotgun shell shoots like 200 pellets and can still hit a target hard at like 40 meters.

But for shotguns in Warframe that shoot like 10 pellets the range should be like 400 meters, if you would compare that pellet count in reallife.

 

Yes im making this thread because of that Brakk nerf. But its about damn time you finally think about making shotguns viable again.

Right now you are just rip appart every single hope ive gotten as a shotgunfan in my time in Warframe. And you just making it worse right now.

 

I dont want another fancy Revolver. I dont want another fancy "Whip". 

I want to use shotguns already, without getting huge drawback damgage-wise.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Derethevil

[Archistopheles]

This is "Le" reason

 

I stopped reading there.

 

Nobody cared before the Brakk nerf, so this isn't about shotguns.

[Cranial_Enigma]

Well according to DE shotguns don't deal full damage after 10 meters. I'm pretty sure shotguns still hurt when getting shot at that range or at point blank, the only difference would be that you might get hit by less pellets at 10 meters then at point blank.

 

Remove fall-off and increase the rate of spread over distance, I think that would be a reasonable trade off, would give a good reason to use Tainted Shell and might make you think twice before using Vicious Spread.

[Letter13]

Nobody cared before the Brakk nerf, so this isn't about shotguns.

People cared a lot when the Hek was changed to have damage drop off.

[InvaderMEEN]

I 100% agree with this thread.

[ThePresident777]

It's true, shotguns in video games are just stupid because of the rediculas damage drop off.  It makes them useless.  Why do game companies make their shotguns useless?  You know what?  F*** shotguns.  Don't bother releasing anymore shotguns DE.  I'm not interested in the silly damage drop off nonsense.

[Archistopheles]

People cared a lot when the Hek was changed to have damage drop off.

 

 

Well get rid of my first post too, then. It looks out of place now.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Archistopheles

[Derethevil]

Well get rid of my first post too, then. It looks out of place now.

Well thanks, but its still there. ^^

At least for me.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Derethevil

[FableTale]

Does anyone know if shotgun losing firing power even a thing outside of videogames? I know they aren't as accurate, but they don't lose their firing power do they?

[Archistopheles]

Does anyone know if shotgun losing firing power even a thing outside of videogames? I know they aren't as accurate, but they don't lose their firing power do they?

 

Technically speaking, all firearms lose "power" over distance. Wind and gravity drag everything down.

[FableTale]

Technically speaking, all firearms lose "power" over distance. Wind and gravity drag everything down.

Well yeah that's true. But I say this because videogames make shotguns useless beyond midrange. In videogames, they actually lose their power considerably.

[Kaokasalis]

I dont have a problem with the current way shotgun works. I can still use them just fine. The problem to me itself however seems to lie in Warframe. You see before a certain update all the shotgun had no damage dropoff and could kill stuff at a distance well enough if not better like a sniper. The Hek especially with its tight spread could kill stuff that was pretty far away and make it look like you were throwing a bullet wall at them. This created a problem for the sniper weapons for why would you use a sniper when you could get a shotgun that had the same range and handles better than the sniper? This is where the problem for snipers in warframe comes in. Not many rooms or places in the game seems large enough to me for what would be practiical sniping. The rooms are to small and the snipers fell out of place with the distance of the rooms.

[Archistopheles]

Well yeah that's true. But I say this because videogames make shotguns useless beyond midrange. In videogames, they actually lose their power considerably.

 

Check out the wikipedia article on shotguns and their ammo. There are so many different kinds, different ammos, different adjustments and materials that can be used that it's impossible to give a blanket statement about them.

 

We classify the gigantic Punt guns and some tank shells as being a type of shotgun, so realistically, there is no limit to the power of them if you use the correct ammo/gun.

[Derethevil]

Well yeah that's true. But I say this because videogames make shotguns useless beyond midrange. In videogames, they actually lose their power considerably.

Well you can search it up on Wiki.

Yeah there is a dropoff for every weapon, especially for shotguns, but not as devastating as it is in Warframe.

Also a real shotgun shoots way more pellets and still is able to hit a target hard in 50 meters range.

Less pellets = more range, because physics (wooo physics :D)

Well as i said in my post.

10 pellets should be able to travel like 400 meters. (Also the Wiki will give you that information)

 

Thats why im begging DE to finally nerf that dropoff or even remove it.

If they want to add realism towards shotguns, they should make it right.

[Ahcruna]

I dont have a problem with the current way shotgun works. I can still use them just fine. The problem to me itself however seems to lie in Warframe. You see before a certain update all the shotgun had no damage dropoff and could kill stuff at a distance well enough if not better like a sniper. The Hek especially with its tight spread could kill stuff that was pretty far away and make it look like you were throwing a bullet wall at them. This created a problem for the sniper weapons for why would you use a sniper when you could get a shotgun that had the same range and handles better than the sniper? This is where the problem for snipers in warframe comes in. Not many rooms or places in the game seems large enough to me for what would be practiical sniping. The rooms are to small and the snipers fell out of place with the distance of the rooms.

 

Well either buff snipers or widen the spread of the shotguns making it deal less damage because of missing pellets.

 

The game has some pretty neat shotguns, both visually and stats wise.

Damage drop-off is pretty ridiculous, at least the way it's implemented now.

 

I'd honestly prefer a wider spread or even arcing of the pellets over what we have now.

 

I do use the shotguns myself (I love the Boar Prime and Tigris) but I never bring any of them to high level missions since getting up close to avoid damage fall-off can get you surrounded and killed pretty fast depending on what Frame you are using.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Ahcruna

[NalkorRN]

At this point I don't even bother using Forma because DE is now releasing weapons and then 'balancing' them when new ones come out. Oh no, can't have an event-exclusive that required grinding 100 @(*()$ extermination missions being stronger than the Aklex.

[Derethevil]

I dont have a problem with the current way shotgun works. I can still use them just fine. The problem to me itself however seems to lie in Warframe. You see before a certain update all the shotgun had no damage dropoff and could kill stuff at a distance well enough if not better like a sniper. The Hek especially with its tight spread could kill stuff that was pretty far away and make it look like you were throwing a bullet wall at them. This created a problem for the sniper weapons for why would you use a sniper when you could get a shotgun that had the same range and handles better than the sniper? This is where the problem for snipers in warframe comes in. Not many rooms or places in the game seems large enough to me for what would be practiical sniping. The rooms are to small and the snipers fell out of place with the distance of the rooms.

Well as you already said, the biggest problem for snipers in Warframe is just the distance between you and the target.

You never will be able to actually "snipe" someone from far far away to get that "darn im sniper-king feeling".

And since you are basically all the time close to enemies you nearly always using machineguns and other stuff.

 

So the shotgun-sniping, wasnt the problem, just because it can hit the target from a great range, the problem is the "sniper-system" itself.

By implementing that dropoff system for shotguns you may achieved to stop shotgun-sniping, but did you really take care of that sniper problem?

 

As for now both are still not as viable as a Soma in normal fighting range.

Yes a shotgun is for close range, but only if you want to hit one target and you really want to exterminate that one person.

Also they should be able to take down a crowd of enemies, while beeing able to deal "decent" damage to everyone, so you need some more shots.

Now its just useless there, becaues there are nearly no crowds and if so, you cant deal "decent" damge to them.

 

A sniper rifle should be able to take down an Elephant from far-far-far-far away, but there is no far-far-far-far away right now, so you can still use them at "far" away, but in that time you could have dealt way more damage with a Soma or so, because there will be way more targets in that range.

 

I hope i explained it well enough.

[Nnazqul]

Boar prime had almost 2 times more dps than any rifle and brakk was just as OP.

They were broken weapons and needed balancing , deal with it,

[Derethevil]

Boar prime had almost 2 times more dps than any rifle and brakk was just as OP.

They were broken weapons and needed balancing , deal with it,

What balancing are you talking about? 

The damage itself, or about the range?

And why are you talking about Boar Prime? 

 

See thats why i think guys like you shouldnt play such games. You look at something (You just looked into that unofficial weapon benchmark, havent you?) and make a grave mistake by taking this as the standard weapon damage, without even thinking one single time why your "high dps" Boar Prime is on top of that list.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Derethevil

[Derethevil]

i own a boar prime and brakk thank you.

u mad?

Why did i even try talking to a troll? Well thats a nice way to test that report button there.

[Nnazqul]

Why did i even try talking to a troll? Well thats a nice way to test that report button there.

No , you were trying to dismiss me with your ''you have no clue what you're talking about'' assumption.I know you're mad they messed with your toy but hey , it was too OP.Now deal with it.

[NalkorRN]

God do I love the ignore function for these boards.

 

Seriously guys, after the Strun Wraith was nerfed with falloff, Damage 2.0 skewing it's numbers, the Snipetron Vandal being made obsolete by the Vectis, and now the Brakk, it's clear that event-exclusive weapons will just be nerfed/balanced for when newer weapons come out so DE can sell them on the market. It's bascially Wargames with World of Tanks right now: Release something damn good and actually effective, wait for people to max it out (forma here and such) then release something new, 'balance' the old content since new shinies are out, rinse and repeat.

 

"Oh but we can't have secondaries more powerful than primaries" says the whiner.

"Oh but we want Hornet Strike on the same level as Serration" says the Soma-noob.

"Oh but we don't want 180% Multishot on secondaries and 90% on Primaries" says the Scrub.

 

I chose the impossible! I CHOSE FIREFALL!

 

*checks the Firefall forums, detailing durability and crafting specializations despite heated opposition by almost all players there* Okay, seriously, did all the devs of every F2P game decide one day to just sit down and get stoned out of their mind and commit to these awful design choices? I don't even know where to go at this point. The only hold the skinner-box of Warframe has left on me is the daily reward because why bother maxing out current weapons and tweaking them?

 

Mechwarrior Online, Firefall, Warframe, it's like all these F2P games which are if not unique, damn near it, have so much potential and with awesome weapons, the devs just somehow end up aiming their sights so low they end up shooting themselves in the foot. I'll see you all in Anor Londo as the third archer on the walkway.

[Archistopheles]

Okay, seriously, did all the devs of every F2P game decide one day to just sit down and get stoned out of their mind and commit to these awful design choices?

 

Steve's been quoted in saying he got "Advice from colleagues" that has shaped certain decisions in Warframe. Might as well run rampant with that possibly misquoted speculation at this point.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Archistopheles

[NalkorRN]

Steve's been quoted in saying he got "Advice from colleagues" that has shaped certain decisions in Warframe. Might as well run rampant with that possibly misquoted speculation at this point.

Seriously? That's what he said? That's a bigger cop-out than the 'explanation' given for encrypting drop tables and then seeing the drop tables bugged/altered/nerfed.

[Derethevil]

By the way. Detron is also a "shotgun".

Devs? Damage dropoff?