New Damage System..

[Demlier]

hello i just want to tell this: this damage system is sucks eally i just want to say what creators waned to do? make (for me) uncomfortable to play so i need to say again...SUCKSSSSS!!!!! ..ok i know u wanted to add something new to warframe.....but really so f...... the play style? I think this weapons new interface and warframes are awesome  but it is already inflection and a lot of my friends think same .So i dont have any more question's to this STIUPID USELESS damage system.Old damage system was great i dont know what they did change it.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Demlier

[Heroicleopard]

Fire + poison = gas

 

I'll post a torrid pic in a couple.

[Naftal]

I'll post a torrid pic in a couple.

Why? The picture above is obviously from Ignis that's modded a little. Just look at the other stats...

 

Also, look at the Ignis behind those stats...

[bear38122]

I'm not whining but here is my biggest $#*(@.....There are people that spent quite a bit of time using forma many times on several weapons to have good builds.  Then there are the people that did not.  I think the later are the ones saying it's fine.  Reason is now the people that spent time and forma MAY have to do it again just to be able to have a good build again.  Seems FU to me.  Create more work for the people that played their asses off and the newbies or ones that did not spend the formas get an advantage.  Not whining like I said.  Am I wrong and if so how?  I would be glad if DE allowed me to swap the polarities around if I needed to.  The offered to allow me to do it once on one weapon.   I told em to keep the generous offer.  Oh and now it seems like affinity drops fewer times so it takes longer if I use forma on a weapon just to get it back to where I was.

Edited December 8, 2013 by yrrej

[Naftal]

I'm not whining but here is my biggest $#*(@.....There are people that spent quite a bit of time using forma many times on several weapons to have good builds.  Then there are the people that did not.  I think the later are the ones saying it's fine.  Reason is now the people that spent time and forma MAY have to do it again just to be able to have a good build again.  Seems FU to me.  Create more work for the people that played their asses off and the newbies or lazy ones get an advantage.  Not whining like I said.  Am I wrong and if so how?

They're letting us change polarity order at some point.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that any way you might have put the polarities in your weapon, 1 or max 2 more formas will allow you to use any build with any elemental combos.

[bear38122]

They're letting us change polarity order at some point.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that any way you might have put the polarities in your weapon, 1 or max 2 more formas will allow you to use any build with any elemental combos.

I can copy and paste the communication I got from Tech Support saying this is a one time deal.

 

[DE]Matt (WARFRAME Support)

Dec 05 10:55 (EST)

Hi yrrej,

I have spoken to my supervisor about your case and we can make the changes for you on one item if you let us know what slots you wanted changed? This is a one-time-only offer though, we cannot perform these changes again.

 

[DE]Matt (WARFRAME Support)

Dec 05 17:58 (EST)

Nonetheless, the changes affected all players and we cannot take the time to change all players loadouts to their new preferences. We acknowledge your particular concern in this matter however and wanted to provide some assistance to you, outside our standard operating procedures. As a result we are willing to make the change for whichever item you are burning to change the configuration of the most, as a special consideration of your support for Warframe thus far. Beyond that, the game provides a mechanism for making these changes that can be utilized to make whatever changes you deem necessary through normal play. I hope you can see where we are coming from and take us up on our offer to help you along your way to adapting to the new system.

Edited December 8, 2013 by yrrej

[Naftal]

I can copy and paste the communication I got from Tech Support saying this is a one time deal.

How many times would you need to do that?

[bear38122]

No kidding I probably have at least 3 weapons each in primary and seconday that I will need to forma at least once.  I have most of the weapons and warframes and I understand now that some of the weapons that were not used can be used now.  Thing is now I am reluctant to do anything at this time as things may change again.  I know it is a beta and these things happen.  I would like to see an official poll on the number of players that like and dislike the new damage system.  What the main reason for it being so different from the previous system.  People say rainbow builds but from what I read  that is still possible.  IMO and granted I don't know a lot wouldn't new mods have been better?

Edited December 8, 2013 by yrrej

[Naftal]

I thought it's going to be once per polarized weapon.

 

EDIT: and I thought DE were going to let us do that ourselves and not via support.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Naftal

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I can copy and paste the communication I got from Tech Support saying this is a one time deal.

snip

SUPPORT will only change it for you, that does not mean DE won't put a new system in.

[bear38122]

We shall see............

[KvotheTheArcane1]

We shall see............

I  really doubt that DE will just say "Reforma your weapons, it's not a problem!" Pretty sure that'd &!$$ almost everyone off.

 

But, if they say they're not gonna ever do it I'd be shocked, right before the entire community goes crazy and they change their stance.

Edited December 8, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[bear38122]

Well pretty sure that is what I was told in the email I pasted.  Should we wait and not forma anything and waste our time and forma?

I'm just trying to get my weapons at max damage like everyone else.  Right now I am just sitting and waiting and doing what damage my weapons will do like they are.  I don't want to waste my time and effort again until I know what the hell they are doing.

Do you think DE Matt will give me back my forma if I use them now and they change things again?  If he will I will go ahead and change everything I need to for this damage system.  Then if I need to change it again after they make changes like people think they will he will refund them. 

Edited December 8, 2013 by yrrej

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Well pretty sure that is what I was told in the email I pasted.  Should we wait and not forma anything and waste our time and forma?

I'm just trying to get my weapons at max damage like everyone else.  Right now I am just sitting and waiting and doing what damage my weapons will do like they are.  I don't want to waste my time and effort again until I know what the hell they are doing.

Do you think DE Matt will give me back my forma if I use them now and they change things again?  If he will I will go ahead and change everything I need to for this damage system.  Then if I need to change it again after they make changes like people think they will he will refund them. 

No, that's not what was said, Support said they can do it once for you, they did NOT say there will never be a system to move polarities around. You're taking what DE Matt said as "DE will allow you to ONCE move around polarities, then never again.", when what he said was "For you, since you're a master founder, I'll move polarities around, but support cannot do this for every single person."

[bear38122]

On one weapon.  I asked him if he meant one weapon and yes one weapon one slot.  He also said there was a system to adjust the polarities and I should use them.

[RedDirtTrooper]

Read the most recent post in the developers Desk. Dealing with the polarized slot order problem caused by Damage 2.0 is specifically mentioned as the next major thing being worked on.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

On one weapon.  I asked him if he meant one weapon and yes one weapon one slot.  He also said there was a system to adjust the polarities and I should use them.

Yes, that was what he was offering, and I imagine he was referring to the upcoming system like RedDirt said.

[Lost_Cartographer]

2.0 isn't fine, but not because "1.0 was better."  It's still 1.0... just the order of our element mod placement matters now and maybe the weapon's physical damage alignment, if it matters in the least to begin with (see: Soma.)  It did virtually nothing to encourage build diversity, which was the entire point of the change in the first place if I recall.

 

Otherwise, 2.0 is a step in the right direction, but it's approach is all wrong in my opinion.

[LostAlone]

2.0 isn't fine, but not because "1.0 was better."  It's still 1.0... just the order of our element mod placement matters now and maybe the weapon's physical damage alignment, if it matters in the least to begin with (see: Soma.)  It did virtually nothing to encourage build diversity, which was the entire point of the change in the first place if I recall.

 

Otherwise, 2.0 is a step in the right direction, but it's approach is all wrong in my opinion.

 

That's probably about right. 

 

If anything there is now less overall diversity than before. As it was you could make damn near any weapon viable for most of the normal level content in the game. Some things did more damage than average, but you could realistically take most weapons through most missions, especially relevant for grinding mastery levels. 

 

Now you either use one of very few weapons that are specifically very high in one damage type, or you get to frustratedly achieve nothing as your bullets ping off things. Most notably there is one rifle type weapon that is good against corpus now, and (of all things) its the GORGON which you can't even get anymore.

 

As far as I can tell forcing people to use shotguns or sniper rifles is not encouraging diversity, not at all.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

That's probably about right. 

 

If anything there is now less overall diversity than before. As it was you could make damn near any weapon viable for most of the normal level content in the game. Some things did more damage than average, but you could realistically take most weapons through most missions, especially relevant for grinding mastery levels. 

 

Now you either use one of very few weapons that are specifically very high in one damage type, or you get to frustratedly achieve nothing as your bullets ping off things. Most notably there is one rifle type weapon that is good against corpus now, and (of all things) its the GORGON which you can't even get anymore.

 

As far as I can tell forcing people to use shotguns or sniper rifles is not encouraging diversity, not at all.

Err, no. Before non AI weapons were horrible and were beaten by pretty much any gun that was AI. Now, nearly every weapon is viable, and the element system now either helps you beat a faction better, or covers for a weapons weakness. Who cares if a weapon has 0 impact if you toss magnetic on it? Or like the flux, it's a great anti infested weapon, toss heat damage on it and you're gonna cut through them even faster.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[LostAlone]

Err, no. Before non AI weapons were horrible and were beaten by pretty much any gun that was AI. Now, nearly every weapon is viable, and the element system now either helps you beat a faction better, or covers for a weapons weakness. Who cares if a weapon has 0 impact if you toss magnetic on it? Or like the flux, it's a great anti infested weapon, toss heat damage on it and you're gonna cut through them even faster.

 

I said for normal level content. 

 

You only HAD to use armour ignore for very long survival or defense runs. I ran all the way out to Pluto, through the Void and Derelict missions and never had any problem in doing damage (aside from boss missions) with boring normal weapons like the Latron and Braton. 

 

You can make most weapons better against certain factions through the use of mods, but there's a VAST ocean of difference between the weapons that are naturally good against certain factions and those that aren't. Why would you ever want to try and take a weapon with very low impact damage against corpus? Seriously. Why would you do that, when you have the option to use a far better weapon for the job?

 

We have gotten to a point where having a personal preference is irrelevant, because the difference between 'good' and 'bad' is something close to double the DPS. Take it from a guy who really has tried to make his Soma useable against everything - it doesn't work. Not even strapping on every strong damage type. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I said for normal level content. 

 

You only HAD to use armour ignore for very long survival or defense runs. I ran all the way out to Pluto, through the Void and Derelict missions and never had any problem in doing damage (aside from boss missions) with boring normal weapons like the Latron and Braton.

Eh, I disagree, You could use normal weapons, but lets compare boltor vs braton prime: If anything has 30% armor, boltor is doing more damage, and that's true for all mods, no matter what you tossed on (it's the same if you toss a maxed serration/heavycal/SC on both). If you put an AP mod on, then if the enemy has roughly 46% armor, then the boltor is better.

 

Grineer had 66% base, corpus had 20% base, so braton prime works against them ok, until level 30 where the boltor starts winning, again.

 

And of course, that's not mentioning the massive headshot bonus the boltor gets.

 

 

You can make most weapons better against certain factions through the use of mods, but there's a VAST ocean of difference between the weapons that are naturally good against certain factions and those that aren't. Why would you ever want to try and take a weapon with very low impact damage against corpus? Seriously. Why would you do that, when you have the option to use a far better weapon for the job?

You can still take any weapon to any area if you mod it reasonably well, and again, magnetic damage or toxic damage makes up for the low impact (toxic ignores shields, magnetic cuts through shields and robots faster)

 

 

We have gotten to a point where having a personal preference is irrelevant, because the difference between 'good' and 'bad' is something close to double the DPS. Take it from a guy who really has tried to make his Soma useable against everything - it doesn't work. Not even strapping on every strong damage type.

It was always that way. You COULD take your braton prime to T3 defense, OR you could bring the boltor, which was much better suited for it.

 

Take it from a guy who's soma works in T3 defense until the last 3 waves, modding it properly makes all the difference. At the last 3 waves is where it takes ~2-3 seconds tops of sustained fire to kill an ancient/fusion moa/heavy gunner. (well, bit longer on the heavy, maybe takes 1-3 more seconds depending if I'm using corrosive vs magnetic)

Edited December 9, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1