An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[bejuizb]

Well said Althix, blunt but effective nonetheless.

Lets hope things turn for the better from now on.

Edited January 14, 2014 by bejuizb

[Vargras]

blessing. bastille. snowglobe. stomp. chaos. radial disarm. sonar. shield polarize.

17 warframes in the game, 4 skills each. 68 skills total.

 

8 out of 68 powers are "too strong". Out of all the abilities in the game, only 12% are "too strong", thus "all powers are too strong". Yes, brilliant, makes perfect sense.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Vargras

[Zeus154]

Hello community, as well as whomever at Digital Extremes deciding to read this letter of sorts. Let’s sit down, listen to some music and talk about the concerns as the community at large is putting forth.

 

I’m not really a so-called “veteran,” in the fact I’ve put at least a total of four-hundred hours, and have played the game in Closed Beta Testing. I was only able to play a small portion of Closed Beta, only because of optimization issues with my PC. It’s better now, getting around thirty to forty frames-per-second. But I’m straying away from the point of this letter.

 

I haven’t expressed a bit of my concern over the past weeks at various debacles in the forums, I have only been reading them. One of the elements: grinding has been making headlines for many weeks. Here are my thoughts.

 

 

Grinding for those who don’t know, is the act of repeatedly committing to the same task, resulting in gaining higher benefit, ala levels. This tedium, I think is stemmed from the lack of variety in mechanics in Warframe. Some letters and topics have discussed this thought, and I’ll add my bit into it. The missions are relatively the same component, added with a different objective. It is either go from drop point A, mercilessly slaughter Grineer/Corpus/Infested, and head to extraction point B while doing so. In the middle are either protecting a target/capturing a target, assassinating a boss, or defending an area from its utter demise. This can get somewhat tedious. I’ve played games like Mass Effect 3, for around six-hundred hours, because the missions aren’t too same-y. Although you have to kill your opposition to advance, they threw in some objectives part way into the game. From killing essential targets, to hacking inside a circle, it made for intense gameplay.

I’d say to rework some missions and (keep) reworking the bosses, all of them are great for the most part. The maps need more variety besides the tilepieces, why not alternate routes that cater to players who want to stealth their way? Make killing an option, since we have a mission of destroying a reactor, the crew inside will die anyway. Assassinations can more coordinated, like a Krill dying from sudden massive exposure from a sabotaged fluid tank nearby, et cetera. Things like this will help bring some depth into the gameplay, allowing some players to go into the branch of stealth or focus on the shooter element.

 

I also feel that the guns don’t handle “well.” Most of the weapons on offer are mostly the same, some of them that are set apart are the Penta, Stug, Ogris, Torid. The weapons don’t give that “meaty” feeling that some other shooters do. An example of this is

, this game, even though has a smaller variety of weapons, each of them feel different; the recoil, accuracy and spread patterns set each weapon apart. The game as well sets up great intensity, having FBI and SWAT teams breathing down your neck in numbers, armed to the teeth. But in Warframe, you could argue that the Tenno suits, the Warframes, can compensate for recoil. I can understand that, but most weapons don’t really sound too powerful and or feel different.

 

I’d just rework some of the weapons; give them some uniqueness like an alternate means of fire, or make the weapons feel and sound powerful. This would give more meat to the weapons, making them feel different in their way.

 

 

In conjunction to weapons, another section I consider to aide in the grind department are the Warframes themselves. There is essentially little “variety” amongst the public groups. Look in the Recruitment chat, and see how many people ask for a Valkyr in a looking for a group for (mobile) defense? You’re not going to see that happen. Much like the weapons, it has to be Damage-based, or it’s not going to make the mark. It’s usually Nova, Mag, Rhino, Vauban, or Frost for those jobs. While Frost or Vauban are not damage-based, Nova, Mag, and Rhino are. This presents in little variety of use in frames, making the other essentially stuck in a tier below sub-par. Every frame has their niche role, but these frames set the standard for being powerful in general. While each frame maintain their themes, some are the “wet noodles” compared the “hard-hitters.” In addition to the warframes, are their builds for each of them. Streamline, Flow, Focus, and, Redirection/Vitality. Done. This is what the builds have boiled down to nowadays.

 

Make each frame viable in a diverse amount of situations. Not all of them should just be pure damage and call it good. The builds also should give you freedom; exploit the frame’s inner niche role, or go all-out and fixate on their weaknesses. Levels should affect all stats respectively, like stamina and run speed, not just health, shield and energy capacity. But should there be any major change, I would think Mods 2.0 should be ousted in favor to skill trees  – diverse builds for every warframe, allowing everyone to tailor to their playstyle, not someone else’s.

 

But this is only scratching a broad surface of things. Endgame and Earlygame. This is another trend being thrown up in air, however an update to this letter will ensue soon; I have run out of time to think of mental ideas for this topic, as I have to allot my time on other important tasks.

 

And that is what I have to say on this matter. Note that this open letter is subject to possible change, and will not retain this form. This is as well are MY thoughts and feelings on the matter. I only created this large post only to show my feelings and some concern for Warframe, as most people say, the game show a large amount of potential. I humbly thank you for reading this long post, and hope you have a wonderful day.

[GIMO]

17 warframes in the game, 4 skills each. 68 skills total.

 

8 out of 68 powers are "too strong", thus "all powers are too strong". Yes, brilliant, makes perfect sense.

 

 

He didn't list all of the ones he's referring to.  Also, it's not just powers; players as a whole are too powerful.

[Silraed]

Honestly I see what you are saying for a lot of it and agree with most of it.

 

But my view on the whole "content for the hardcore vets." thing is that the game was never designed with that in mind, the way they keep throwing weapons and 'Frames at us at an alarming rate is proof of that (they are NOT content in themselves), and as such it isn't really capable of handling that kind of content without excluding half the player base from ever doing it.

Because lets face it not everybody can spend or wants to spend countless hours relevelling the same item just to be able to do a piece of content, that wouldn just be bad design.

 

I also think you made a good point about abilities, but not the one you tried to make. To me you pointed out how unbalanced the abilities are, and that is even worse in my view.

 

But overall a great post and sadly true.

[Auramaru]

What a green post and well-worded! +1

[Althix]

17 warframes in the game, 4 skills each. 68 skills total.

 

8 out of 68 powers are "too strong". Out of all the abilities in the game, only 12% are "too strong", thus "all powers are too strong". Yes, brilliant, makes perfect sense.

this is why we have tiers for warframes. you do not use majority of them for high level because they are useless. they are useless because they can't provide edge needed to play on that level.

 

it's like a snake biting its own tail you know?

[Vargras]

this is why we have tiers for warframes. you do not use majority of them for high level because they are useless. they are useless because they can't provide edge needed to play on that level.

 

it's like a snake biting its own tail you know?

So, let me get this straight. You think powers are too powerful. You also think most warframes aren't used for high level play because they're useless, on account of not having powers that are powerful enough to make them viable.

 

I'm not saying that's a contradiction, buuuut...

Edited January 14, 2014 by Vargras

[Althix]

 

But my view on the whole "content for the hardcore vets." thing is that the game was never designed with that in mind

yes i agree. Steve said that in one of their streams. However with current situation with the game, when players are way too powerful for a regular content. Game modes for a players with... specific.... aresenal is needed. Because as i said in OP - you can do fine with MK-1 Braton.

[Vargras]

A free-to-play game has extensive grinding?!

 

Alert the presses!

[SilverBones]

Merging the thread into the growing Open Letter Megathread.

 

SQUISH IT LIKE PUTTY.

[DarkenedThimble]

The mods are really working overtime to try and bury these.

Most viewers aren't going to sit here and read every single page. They might, and probably are, missing some of the letters because the mods are merging these to "keep the forums in order". 

-1. Seems legit. 

[Vargras]

The mods are really working overtime to try and bury these.

Most viewers aren't going to sit here and read every single page. They might, and probably are, missing some of the letters because the mods are merging these to "keep the forums in order". 

-1. Seems legit. 

Because consolidating multiple topics on the same thing and trying to keep the forums from looking spammy is definitely just the mods trying to bury it so DE will never see it.

 

No way they're just doing their jobs.

[DarkenedThimble]

It isn't multiple topics on the same things. It's different letter containing each veteran's concerns with the game and sparking discussion about it.

Same format, but about different things... and each one deserves it's own thread of discussion. Mashing them together like this is burying them and preventing any deep discussion about each letter's concerns.

[Althix]

buuuut...

but you fail to understand one simple truth. Bar is set too high by a few chosen frames, and no other frame can compete with them in a given field of use.

 

I just hope for a system, where all frames and their powers valid. and do not have effect when level 1800+ grineer is harmless like a kitten.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Althix

[Vargras]

but you fail to understand one simple truth. Bar is set to high by a few chosen frames, and no other frame can compete with them in a given field of use.

 

I just hope for a system, where all frames and their powers valid. and do not have effect when level 1800+ grineer is harmless like a kitten.

So post about them specifically rather than just saying "all powers are too powerful". That's a sweeping generalization that doesn't even begin to apply to the vast majority of the abilities.

[Zeus154]

The mods are really working overtime to try and bury these.

Most viewers aren't going to sit here and read every single page. They might, and probably are, missing some of the letters because the mods are merging these to "keep the forums in order". 

-1. Seems legit. 

 

While I agree with the underlined post, they are doing their jobs. I think we might have flew off the handle a bit with the letters. :o

 

Because consolidating multiple topics on the same thing and trying to keep the forums from looking spammy is definitely just the mods trying to bury it so DE will never see it.

 

No way they're just doing their jobs.

 

 

While they are doing their said job, much like Thimble is saying, I don't think most people will dig out to the thirteenth page, just to find peoples letters to begin with. Seems like general human nature, and I respect that. It's just that it will feel as if work has been depreciated more-or-less, if you have place a large amount of time into something, for it to go unnoticed.

[Auramaru]

Patrick:  "Why don't we take all these long-$%@ posts... and push them somewhere else!"

 

Wiser words have not been spoken...

 

EDIT: In all seriousness though, This thread has become a mess....  I get that they are moving them together for organizations sake... but posts and replies and letters are getting jumbled... and it's hard to follow the thread and see replies as relevant because they are out of place sometimes.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Auramau

[Blatantfool]

Patrick:  "Why don't we take all these long-$%@ posts... and push them somewhere else!"

 

Wiser words have not been spoken...

 

EDIT: In all seriousness though, This thread has become a mess....  I get that they are moving them together for organizations sake... but posts and replies and letters are getting jumbled... and it's hard to follow the thread and see replies as relevant because they are out of place sometimes.

 

 I wish there was something I could do to prevent that. It is just some bizarre quirk in the function I've been given for merging threads. I'd avoid it if it let me.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 I wish there was something I could do to prevent that. It is just some bizarre quirk in the function I've been given for merging threads. I'd avoid it if it let me.

This might be a quite a bit of work, but is it possible to move either all the letters, or all the non letter posts to another thread, then back to make it so all the letters appear first?

[SilverBones]

Yeah... The merging code is a little... bleh.

 

We can ask to see if there is someway the posts maintain chronological order in a separated function.

 

Apparently my putty-smashing is mighty.

[Rottae]

maybe set up a Veteran Letter Subforum? It could be a nice idea :P

 

[Blatantfool]

maybe set up a Veteran Letter Subforum? It could be a nice idea :P

 

 

 I could mention something like that - but I'll tell you right now. I'm not gonna make any promises.

 

 It may not seem ideal, but a thread like this - with Vets coming in and populating a single big thread with feedback and talking amongst themselves - is already quite valuable. Just like a thread with a lot of new players giving honest feedback would be.

 

 This thread is GOOD. Populating it is GOOD.

[SilverBones]

maybe set up a Veteran Letter Subforum? It could be a nice idea :P

 

While a sub-forum for open letters would be an awesome idea, I am not sure how deeply the forum team (as in DE Employees) want the place segregated.

 

Can always run it up the chain though and see what they say, seeing as these merges can be... messy.

[Rottae]

Yeah Messy Merges is as it looks right now making these threads both hard to get through and I mostly want to read the letters (I'm usually just a lurker on forums, but a way to put the big things such as collstro and the like upfront would otherwise be a great way to do it)

It just seems like you've put one thread into another atm which at times interupted the flow of the thread. :)