An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[f3llyn]

Difference being that one is a linear path with a clear ending that results with you having the thing you were working towards. The other way you may potentially never get what you want. I'm looking at you Detron...

 

I know what option I would choose.

Edited January 20, 2014 by f3llyn

[KvotheTheArcane1]

snip

Token system is mainly for the void. Trading would pretty much solve everything outside of there (i.e. trading for loki systems, or helmet)

It's not about hating grinding, it's hating RNG grinding because you're not working towards what you want, you're running missions hoping that RNG favors you.

Good that you enjoy grinding weapons up to 30, because that's all there is in WF. If you don't see that as a problem, then I dunno how to show you it is.

Random drops are ok, so long as there is a back up system to it (i.e. trading, token system)

Edited January 20, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Bakim0n0]

Big ups to the OP.

-Founder / former hardcore player with well over 1k hours played who cannot even stand logging in anymore.

Also, for the love of all that is holy, give us Xini back.

[LukeAura]

Token system is a moot point, you'd still grind bosses to get tokens.

This is my last reply in this topic, not because I forfeit, I simply have better things to do than argue with someone who will not agree to see other choices because RNG IS EVIL OMFG.

The thing is simple, you either accept it and keep playing, waiting something new will pop up or you leave, thinking you can find a better game with better mechanics.

I honestly dont get the hate for grinding...its everywhere, its not something new and misunderstood.

Its been around since MMO's began their existance. Is it perfect? Far from it, it can be annoying and time consuming but so will the other solution.

Tokens? 435547568 Sargas Ruk kills to obtain Elite Tenno Token to redeem a weapon.

DE -will- add more content, thats a sure thing. Will we like all of it? Hell no. Will we get quality stuff that makes the game enjoyable? Hell yes.

Sorry for long and unorganized post.

Don't worry about the disorganized post.

Token systems are just an easier way to make a transition from rng to grind while trying to avoid the flaws of both. Higher frequency drops, in exchange for requiring more drops. You get the excitement of an rng system(the chance of a token or no token) with the consistency of a pure grind(tokens drop fairly frequently), and the freedom to choose what your reward is(Spending the token how you want).

You can squeeze more money from a gambler by giving him small victories here and there as incentive to keep playing rather than never giving him anything, but promising he will win big on his first win.

Edited January 20, 2014 by LukeAura

[BETAOPTICS]

- Snip -

While this is somewhat true, people forget what DE mentioned in Livestream #20.

They stated: " You know, Detron was never meant to be farmed. " - then they continued: " But we forgot that there are a lot of veterans who have nothing else to farm for. " Which then results it being the issue. Not that the mechanic itself would have been all the bad by itself maybe, after all it is a reskinned Brakk almost but it is the fact that it was released at this point and not like you said, in the beginning which makes it a problematic issue representing the worst aspects of the game, RNG walls on top of another RNG walls on top of yet another RNG wall and all of this is the only thing many veteran players have to farm for, there is nothing else to do.

Would Detron be such a big problem if endgame content, story and other vital aspects would already be present? Probably not, I am unsure but those things are not present so the only goal for a player like me is to rinse and repeat with the RNG walls in hopes of getting the last piece from my perfect collection and when that piece is hard to get and the only thing to aim for, it gets frustrating and that is not healthy experience for any player.

Edited January 20, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[BETAOPTICS]

If you say so then it must be true. I've never heard of anyone being wrong on the internet.

 

I'll also add that a lot of my other posts on the topic were removed for some reason with no explanation given so I'll say it kindly again, I'm done with that particular conversation.

Both are correct. Yes, a long time player has a overview of how much effort you need to put into the actual game to get it all and experience it all. A 10 hour player can not, other than the experiences he has gathered so far and from information the player has gathered from outside like from the forums and youtube but a player who get's understanding only from outside sources can not fully comprehend the longtime feel of the actual player they are reading about or watching, they can try to understand but there is always something these things leave you out of. Then again, like you said, a player can experience the core of the whole game within 10 hours. It is basically the same experience but not with burn-outs and whatnot, which only tells that this game is really hollow. Again both are correct in my opinion.

[--collstro--]

I haven't posted on the thread in a while, so this is just an update for DE to tell you what's been happening with the 40 or so veteran players who I'm in near daily contact with.

 

Many are hardly playing, some quit the game and some have uninstalled it. And the reason is mostly due to the grind associated with the Harvester/Detron.

 

And before, some of you say, "don't try to farm it, just play and you'll get it when you get it." That's not the main reason that people are getting frustrated. The reason is that DE has put out about 6 patches since the Harvester was introduced, and a few patches that were directly to change the Harvester itself, like the death mark emails; yet the spawn rate is worse than ever, and if you do 100 runs with 4 people who all have death marks and the Harvester never spawns, then it's hard to evaluate the drop rate.

 

This just strikes me and the other veterans who threw in the towel as proof that DE is wed to RNG. After this and countless other threads about it, they think the RNG is fine and doesn't need fixing. And their unwillingness to change the Harvester's RNG which shouldn't be too much more complicated than changing a few values (e.g. changing 0.1% to 5% for spawn rates and 1% to 50% for drop rates, or whatever they are, since they're encrypted;) has left us with little hope that they'll ever recognize the relentless RNG grindfest this game has become, or will ever do anything to address it.

 

DE let me make this very clear. The RNG at its current level is not helping you to retain players, it's driving them away. Many of whom will never return. It's time to show you're listening and fix 1 thing, which should also be the easiest thing to fix.

Edited January 21, 2014 by --collstro--

[BETAOPTICS]

I haven't posted on the thread in a while, so this is just an update for DE to tell you what's been happening with the 40 or so veteran players who I'm in near daily contact with.

 

Many are hardly playing, some quit the game and some have uninstalled it. And the reason is mostly due to the grind associated with the Harvester/Detron.

 

And before, some of you say, "don't try to farm it, just play and you'll get it when you get it." That's not the main reason that people are getting frustrated. The reason is that DE has put out about 6 patches since the Harvester was introduced, and a few patches that were directly to change the Harvester itself, like the death mark emails; yet the spawn rate is worse than ever, and if you do 100 runs with 4 people who all have death marks and the Harvester never spawns, then it's hard to evaluate the drop rate.

 

This just strikes me and the other veterans who threw in the towel as proof that DE is wed to RNG. After this and countless other threads about it, they think the RNG is fine and doesn't need fixing. And their unwillingness to change the Harvester's RNG which shouldn't be too much more complicated than changing a few values (e.g. changing 0.1% to 5% for spawn rates and 1% to 50% for drop rates, or whatever they are, since they're encrypted;) has left us with little hope that they'll ever recognize the relentless RNG grindfest this game has become, or will ever do anything to address it.

 

DE let me make this very clear. The RNG at its current level is not helping you to retain players, it's driving them away. Many of whom will never return. It's time to show you're listening and fix 1 thing, which should also be the easiest thing to fix.

You always manage to deliver. Dude, you are on fire, not literally but figuratively.

[SteelReaver54]

To this I give all my +1.

 

I love supporting games f2p or not. The point of a game is to have fun and well frankly... i'm finding that i'm having less and less of that here. RNG is ruining my experience at a rate greater than all the reach/stretch/ammo drums mods combined. I'm 0-63 on ember prime helmet blueprints but I got bronco parts coming out my eyes. I could make one for nearly everyone whose posted. I understand why RNG is there so we don't lose interest in automatically becoming accustomed to getting exactly whats needed but my goodness. Who in the world needs 14+ bronco pistols? There has to be a greater balance somewhere in the system. I'm sure there are fans/veteran players who are even willing to help you DE with nothing more than to be put in the credits in the "a special thanks to.. " section just to help get this game out of beta.

 

I don't want this to become another APB (cops an robbers game on steam that's been in beta perma status...) to which it becomes nothing but false promises and new weapons advertised as new content when anybody can see its just reskins and making original weapons obsolete. The game as potential but it can quickly go south if you (DE) lose focus on the community and think we are nothing more than dollar signs.

[--collstro--]

 

I'm sure there are fans/veteran players who are even willing to help you DE with nothing more than to be put in the credits in the "a special thanks to.. " section just to help get this game out of beta.

 

That's one of the problems. That place already exists. One of us created a place that is always populated by 10-50 veteran players who collectively have 10-50 thousand hours in game, who are ready willing and able to help DE in any way they request, for no pay (i.e. plat,) or acknowledgement. We just want to help the game realize the potential we all saw in it when we started playing.

 

DE knows of its existence (1-2 days after this thread started,) and except for the initial PR contact, we have not been contacted by a single developer.

[Torguish]

Been playing since Good ol' closed beta. Sign me up! :)

[se05239]

DE knows of its existence (1-2 days after this thread started,) and except for the initial PR contact, we have not been contacted by a single developer.

 

Their first post wasn't a success, to say at least. Right after Rebecca made her comment about DE looking into "fixing" RNG, they released Detron with one of the worst RNG gates up to date.

[Kaian-a-coel]

There is trust issues between DE and us. /euphemism

[matto]

There is trust issues between DE and us.

 

And I'm pretty sure it works in both ways.

 

It makes me remember a reaction from one of the devs who said something like "you guys on the forum are not developers, so you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to suggestions".

 

Unfortunately, we may not know about developing stuffs, but we know about games... for the reason we're playing them.

 

Anyway...

[--collstro--]

Another day goes by and no movement by DE on the Harvester/Detron drop rates. Is it just me or does anyone else think that DE just isn't looking at the forums, or aren't being informed on what's going on in the forums? Because, even more people are leaving and I just can't believe DE is willing to lose players on a daily basis due to their stubborn reluctance to change a couple of values on the spawn and drop rates of the Harvester.

 

I hope DE does realize that veteran players do buy plat too. A couple of the people who have quit were people with the Prime Access scarves, so they even bought plat fairly recently, but due to DE's stubbornness on this petty issue, they've lost any future revenue from those players. I can't imagine DE is gaining revenue off of the Harvester spawn/drop rates from other players to replace those that are being lost.

[Grievous40]

As a member of the Gryphus Tech Corporation and a veteran player I agree completely with this letter.

[Mak_Gohae]

Another day goes by and no movement by DE on the Harvester/Detron drop rates. Is it just me or does anyone else think that DE just isn't looking at the forums, or aren't being informed on what's going on in the forums? Because, even more people are leaving and I just can't believe DE is willing to lose players on a daily basis due to their stubborn reluctance to change a couple of values on the spawn and drop rates of the Harvester.

 

I hope DE does realize that veteran players do buy plat too. A couple of the people who have quit were people with the Prime Access scarves, so they even bought plat fairly recently, but due to DE's stubbornness on this petty issue, they've lost any future revenue from those players. I can't imagine DE is gaining revenue off of the Harvester spawn/drop rates from other players to replace those that are being lost.

 

People are leaving because they cant get one rare weapon naoh?

[f3llyn]

People are leaving because they cant get one rare weapon naoh?

 

It's interesting to me that you can ignore 44 pages of discussion in this thread and come to that conclusion.

Edited January 22, 2014 by f3llyn

[Mak_Gohae]

It's interesting to me that you can ignore 44 pages of discussion in this thread and come to that conclusion.

 

It's interesting that you didnt read the post i quote which my post is replying to.

[MechaTails]

As far as Lore goes, I'm fine with codex entries and stuff. I hate it when people say things like "who cares about lore", but for this game I don't need an elaborate backstory for everyone, least of all the Tenno. You're not a certain character in this game, you're just a character. You aren't the yellow power ranger, you're just a skilled person in a power ranger costume.

[BETAOPTICS]

As far as Lore goes, I'm fine with codex entries and stuff. I hate it when people say things like "who cares about lore", but for this game I don't need an elaborate backstory for everyone, least of all the Tenno. You're not a certain character in this game, you're just a character. You aren't the yellow power ranger, you're just a skilled person in a power ranger costume.

Where did you got the impression that we specifically wanted stories and lore revealed for our characters when they are probably the only ones that everyone most likely think don't need lore and story because of obvious reasons. It's all the other stuff that need story and lore behind them.

[MechaTails]

Where did you got the impression that we specifically wanted stories and lore revealed for our characters when they are probably the only ones that everyone most likely think don't need lore and story because of obvious reasons. It's all the other stuff that need story and lore behind them.

 

From the first post:

 

"Lore consists of a detailed and compelling story, whether it be a written story or a story campaign; of how the Tenno and their enemies (allies?) came to where we are now, and character development, so we are able to relate in some fashion to the characters we play as, and those who we fight against"

[KvotheTheArcane1]

From the first post:

 

"Lore consists of a detailed and compelling story, whether it be a written story or a story campaign; of how the Tenno and their enemies (allies?) came to where we are now, and character development, so we are able to relate in some fashion to the characters we play as, and those who we fight against"

What I took from that was that he meant the factions develop into something more than what we have now, and not the individual tenno. (Although them explaining how each frame came to be might be kinda cool too)

[se05239]

Another day goes by and no movement by DE on the Harvester/Detron drop rates. Is it just me or does anyone else think that DE just isn't looking at the forums, or aren't being informed on what's going on in the forums?

 

They did mention in the latest community "hot" topic that the Detron droprates won't be changed.

 

I think DE is on purpose ignoring threads. 

[Blatantfool]

They did mention in the latest community "hot" topic that the Detron droprates won't be changed.

I think DE is on purpose ignoring threads.

But how easy it is to get HAS been changed. You don't have to have both the Stalker Deathmark and the Harvest mark anymore, for instance. Just the Harvest mark now.

It is the Detron and its recipe you wont likely see changed. DE has instead chosen to tweak Harvester and Invasions instead.

People are leaving because they cant get one rare weapon naoh?

You're summarizing his argument until it doesn't make sense anymore. That makes you look like an idiot. Not him.