An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[Archistopheles]

Mastery does need to change, but it's going to take much more than a paragraph to design the correct framework that fits this game and isn't simply a copy/paste from any other. If you've noticed recently (Damage 2.0 and Melee 2.0) DE doesn't really do bandaids for their framework systems. Since mastery is the core of the game, it's going to take them a very very long time to 1. Find the perfect solution 2. Design it properly

 

 

If this game followed the standard MMORPG model for end game and simply forced us into large groups with forced coordination in order to allow for advancement, I'll simply leave this game. The game is too easy: Yes and No. It's too easy for skilled players, but bigger enemies with bigger numbers is going to do nothing but force us to buy bigger guns and grind bigger RNG walls.

 

 

Conclaives should be where PvP starts, and where PvP ends. PvP game modes, or alternate mini games should be fluff added after the game's PvE is solid.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Archistopheles

[AwAveZ]

Masteries rank : Who cares pass level 12 you have enough trades/scrap bots slots to make this meaningless.

Want to showoff ? Buy a primed access and wear that shiny syandana.

 

End game : yes we need something competitive that actually takes skill and teamplay to beat, and not be forced into sitting hours to bragg on a leaderboard that is reset every weeks, maybe the next kill board system will be better if base on teamplay & level mobs instead of being a solo grindfeast.

 

Lore : really ? i dont even know why i kill infested or corpus and i don't care. Grineer is ok, because they are ugly.

 

PvP is a joke done to content a nich of players, if you want pvp there is a tons of game design around it.

Edited January 11, 2014 by AwAveZ

[-BELLUM-]

Ditto on all points.

 

I'm sure in the next live stream more questions will be addressed in detail, hope DE staff makes the time to absorb this feed-back.

Edited January 11, 2014 by -BELLUM-

[S5alad]

 

The codex does not tell us which mods drop from which survival or defense  mission or from which tier or faction. Data mined information did. The codex does not tell us which void mission type and tier requires to be played to get each Prime component. Data mined information did. The codex does not provide drop rates for anything. Data mined information did.

Eeyup.  By encrypting the most basic information about the game, you're literally declaring war on players who simply want to know how to navigate, DE.  You didn't make the amazing Wiki, WE did.  The wiki is the only feature that keeps this game alive and thriving, the resource players turn to for the information to build weapons and frames to acquire the life giving affinity needed to excel and unlock content in this game.  Either get on board with a legit codex or stop giving your player base a hard time trying to figure out how to understand and best navigate Warframe.

[Mak_Gohae]

Are we living in the same world? Because they most certainly did not.

 

They reduced the time it takes to get frames, but they've upped it everywhere else. Don't give me your BS, you know you're lying, so stop being dishonest.

 

If you want "context" (which you shouldn't need, but you are mak, so whatever), go watch livestream 5 -10 (can't remember which it was)

 

"Everywhere else" means what exactly?

Outside of the Detron everything else is the same or better.

They included the codex which tells you which mobs to farm for mod cards so it's less of a grind. PRAISE THEM!

Why are you not PRAISING THEM? Is it because all you is complain?

 

And i love that you bring up a statement they said yet dont actually know where it comes from.

That really sells your argument right there.

PRAISE THEM!

[Blatantfool]

 Interesting read. We mirror each other on a few points.

 

 

 Once, in a livestream, DE actually shot down the idea of Raid missions. They weren't really feeling it at the time. Perhaps feelings have changed.

 

 

 I too believe that there should eventually come a point where DE starts to craft dungeon/challenge/time attack modes and missions.

 

 I feel like even a 4 player 'Campaign dungeon' is a promising enough prospect as long as you cover all the basics. A set of difficulties for each kind of player (Novice/Master/Grandmaster) set up for both a Solo and Team mode. Perhaps roll in a token system with that system specifically to change the type of grind into something different.

 

 Harder, more focused missions on more complex and much longer maps featuring gameplay that partially departs from the bite-sized objectives of normal missions. Honestly - this could also fix some of our lore hang ups. DE could relay on attempting to tell the whole story coherently via the Starmap and focus the planet by planet story arcs into Campaign Dungeons. Then the Starmap gets to let us experience more open, community wide conflicts related to the lore.

 

 Just like that DE could tread the path to a more complete and coherent lore AND a nice outlet for players to flex their muscles and grind away on content that can present a healthy challenge.

[War_Admiral_Adama]

 Interesting read. We mirror each other on a few points.

 

 

 Once, in a livestream, DE actually shot down the idea of Raid missions. They weren't really feeling it at the time. Perhaps feelings have changed.

 

 

 I too believe that there should eventually come a point where DE starts to craft dungeon/challenge/time attack modes and missions.

 

 I feel like even a 4 player 'Campaign dungeon' is a promising enough prospect as long as you cover all the basics. A set of difficulties for each kind of player (Novice/Master/Grandmaster) set up for both a Solo and Team mode. Perhaps roll in a token system with that system specifically to change the type of grind into something different.

 

 Harder, more focused missions on more complex and much longer maps featuring gameplay that partially departs from the bite-sized objectives of normal missions.

Strongly Agree here. Raid is not a bad idea for a game structured like Warframe.

[rhoenix]

I feel like even a 4 player 'Campaign dungeon' is a promising enough prospect as long as you cover all the basics. A set of difficulties for each kind of player (Novice/Master/Grandmaster) set up for both a Solo and Team mode. Perhaps roll in a token system with that system specifically to change the type of grind into something different.

 

 Harder, more focused missions on more complex and much longer maps featuring gameplay that partially departs from the bite-sized objectives of normal missions.

This I would like to see.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

"Everywhere else" means what exactly?

It means just that. Well, ok, I can give mobs's mods, as they're separated, but still rely on RNG heavily (more below).

 

Outside of the Detron everything else is the same or better.

The void is better? Please, they've made it worse. Mobs? Well, they've made it better in the sense you know what to farm, but at the same time some mods are restricted to incredibly rare enemies, so it's worse at the same time.

 

 

And i love that you bring up a statement they said yet dont actually know where it comes from.

That really sells your argument right there.

PRAISE THEM!

No, I simply don't remember which. Understand the difference? I'm sure either someone else remembers which LS it was, OR I could go find it. Now stop being thick, they have not improved RNG, they've made it worse.

Edited January 11, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[S5alad]

I am at the end game.  Literally the only weapons I lack since the beginning of this game are Vandal Lato, Vandal Braton, and Detron.  I am a Grand Master and am heavily invested into this game.  The issues I have are the drop rates.  Some of the more ridiculous ones were the Ember Prime, Burston Prime, with older ones being something so simple as Control Modules.  It literally took me over 10 hours to farm Burston Prime, the Stock being the missing factor.  With Ember Prime, I recorded my missions, and ended up running over 40 T3 Captures, over 80 T2 Captures, and around 80 T1 Captures.  I sent in a support ticket with the concern that per every 30 Captures I ran, I got less than 1 Ember Prime drop, stating that the drop system was biased against Ember Prime drops.  The response I got from several developers and to my support ticket was that the drops were fine.  No, they aren't.

 

With the Harvester, it's nearly impossible.  First off, there is no published method of attracting the Harvest.  Once again, DE fails to inform the player base with their Codex.  Instead, when players are resourceful enough to establish EE log reading programs, DE patches it out of the game immediately.  DE, you could have simply told us how the Harvester works.  You could have edited the Harvester to simply drop the BP instead of requiring 4 seperate components to build it, instead you decided to suppress the player base's efforts(specifically Lynches') by disabling the programs, treating the symptoms you found inconvenient, instead of asking why those programs were designed in the first place.  Why would people be so desperate to resort to third party programs?  Maybe it's a design flaw?  Maybe it's on you, DE, to construct a friendlier method of getting the Detron, especially for those of us who sided Corpus and were sorely disappointed to not get the Detron?

 

The issue I continually run into is that DE promised it would listen to us.  This is especially true for Founders, we purchased the Founders packages with the explicit promise of DE being especially sensitive to Founder feedback and opinions, when in truth the Founders forum is closed and our feedback has been limited to a few polls and closed discussions.  The issues all being described would not be issues if DE valued it's Founder's feedback and actually listened.  Instead, it seems like a quick money grab scheme, where DE taunts players into investing heavily into a game and then fails to live up to their promises, and we Founders watch in misery as the game slowly deviates away from its initial purpose and strays into the classic trap where developers take long breaks from working and lose touch with the player base.

 

Please DE, this is literally our last attempt to grab your attention.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

[DaftMeat]

Also, it seems like they're focusing on the core mechanics of the game (Dmg 2.0, Melee 2.0) before doing anything else. What good is fixing things like End-Game and PvP if the foundation of all gameplay is screwed? I would hold off all complaints until they are, without a doubt, doing nothing about the problems in Warframe.

This

[slappy330]

A com-mod needs to move this into feedback so DE could read it.

[Deicul]

Remember that time they promised us rewards for master ranks like slots and stuff? Yeah, good times.

[--collstro--]

I am at the end game.  Literally the only weapons I lack since the beginning of this game are Vandal Lato, Vandal Braton, and Detron.  I am a Grand Master and am heavily invested into this game.  The issues I have are the drop rates.  Some of the more ridiculous ones were the Ember Prime, Burston Prime, with older ones being something so simple as Control Modules.  It literally took me over 10 hours to farm Burston Prime, the Stock being the missing factor.  With Ember Prime, I recorded my missions, and ended up running over 40 T3 Captures, over 80 T2 Captures, and around 80 T1 Captures.  I sent in a support ticket with the concern that per every 30 Captures I ran, I got less than 1 Ember Prime drop, stating that the drop system was biased against Ember Prime drops.  The response I got from several developers and to my support ticket was that the drops were fine.  No, they aren't.

 

With the Harvester, it's nearly impossible.  First off, there is no published method of attracting the Harvest.  Once again, DE fails to inform the player base with their Codex.  Instead, when players are resourceful enough to establish EE log reading programs, DE patches it out of the game immediately.  DE, you could have simply told us how the Harvester works.  You could have edited the Harvester to simply drop the BP instead of requiring 4 seperate components to build it, instead you decided to suppress the player base's efforts(specifically Lynches') by disabling the programs, treating the symptoms you found inconvenient, instead of asking why those programs were designed in the first place.  Why would people be so desperate to resort to third party programs?  Maybe it's a design flaw?  Maybe it's on you, DE, to construct a friendlier method of getting the Detron, especially for those of us who sided Corpus and were sorely disappointed to not get the Detron?

 

The issue I continually run into is that DE promised it would listen to us.  This is especially true for Founders, we purchased the Founders packages with the explicit promise of DE being especially sensitive to Founder feedback and opinions, when in truth the Founders forum is closed and our feedback has been limited to a few polls and closed discussions.  The issues all being described would not be issues if DE valued it's Founder's feedback and actually listened.  Instead, it seems like a quick money grab scheme, where DE taunts players into investing heavily into a game and then fails to live up to their promises, and we Founders watch in misery as the game slowly deviates away from its initial purpose and strays into the classic trap where developers take long breaks from working and lose touch with the player base.

 

Please DE, this is literally our last attempt to grab your attention.

 

Totally agree on all points. Well said.

[Tr1ples1xer]

I for one might speak for myself only but LORE is the last thing I care about in WF, I don't need a stupid non sensical story I'd be fine with ''kill everything in sight'' I prefer they work on GAMEPLAY, new factionS, balance and bugs and UI, and more dismemberment, more parkour, more huge jumps more low grav :D the things we do 99% of the time ingame stop releaseing half-assed frames and copy paste weapons and work on the core gameplay.

 

 

_________________________

BRING BACK INFESTED 2014

#savexini

Edited January 11, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[DJ_Redwire]

And i love that you bring up a statement they said yet dont actually know where it comes from.

That really sells your argument right there.

PRAISE THEM!

 

This is just one example, but maybe perhaps this will refresh your memory?

 

It's pretty clear finding that sweet spot hasn't been easy - doing whatever is possible in the short-term (moving new prime stuff to Orokin Derelict instead of further diluting Void) are, as OP said, somewhat "bandaids" to a growing issue - so what can we do in the long-term? The token system for the Void has always been a floating discussion, but that really only applies to Prime gear (and Forma) - a token toward a Paris Prime String isn't going to solve a new players plight to get a Serration with the Mod Drop System. 

 

There is a lot of frustration about different aspects of RNG which all boil down to not getting what is sought - new player or not.

 

Different long-term solutions have to be released for respective "RNG" areas. Arming players with 100% accurate knowledge of where Mods are (via scanning) was an effort to alleviate some frustration with that are, but as always, more work to do! (Mission Rewards, etc).

[Blatantfool]

Remember that time they promised us rewards for master ranks like slots and stuff? Yeah, good times.

 

 Yeah. Still wondering what came of that.

[Archistopheles]

The issue I continually run into is that DE promised it would listen to us.  This is especially true for Founders, we purchased the Founders packages with the explicit promise of DE being especially sensitive to Founder feedback and opinions, when in truth the Founders forum is closed and our feedback has been limited to a few polls and closed discussions.  The issues all being described would not be issues if DE valued it's Founder's feedback and actually listened.  Instead, it seems like a quick money grab scheme, where DE taunts players into investing heavily into a game and then fails to live up to their promises, and we Founders watch in misery as the game slowly deviates away from its initial purpose and strays into the classic trap where developers take long breaks from working and lose touch with the player base.

 

I feel similar, but definitely not betrayed or miserable... yet.

[Deicul]

I am at the end game.  Literally the only weapons I lack since the beginning of this game are Vandal Lato, Vandal Braton, and Detron.  I am a Grand Master and am heavily invested into this game.  The issues I have are the drop rates.  Some of the more ridiculous ones were the Ember Prime, Burston Prime, with older ones being something so simple as Control Modules.  It literally took me over 10 hours to farm Burston Prime, the Stock being the missing factor.  With Ember Prime, I recorded my missions, and ended up running over 40 T3 Captures, over 80 T2 Captures, and around 80 T1 Captures.  I sent in a support ticket with the concern that per every 30 Captures I ran, I got less than 1 Ember Prime drop, stating that the drop system was biased against Ember Prime drops.  The response I got from several developers and to my support ticket was that the drops were fine.  No, they aren't.

 

With the Harvester, it's nearly impossible.  First off, there is no published method of attracting the Harvest.  Once again, DE fails to inform the player base with their Codex.  Instead, when players are resourceful enough to establish EE log reading programs, DE patches it out of the game immediately.  DE, you could have simply told us how the Harvester works.  You could have edited the Harvester to simply drop the BP instead of requiring 4 seperate components to build it, instead you decided to suppress the player base's efforts(specifically Lynches') by disabling the programs, treating the symptoms you found inconvenient, instead of asking why those programs were designed in the first place.  Why would people be so desperate to resort to third party programs?  Maybe it's a design flaw?  Maybe it's on you, DE, to construct a friendlier method of getting the Detron, especially for those of us who sided Corpus and were sorely disappointed to not get the Detron?

 

The issue I continually run into is that DE promised it would listen to us.  This is especially true for Founders, we purchased the Founders packages with the explicit promise of DE being especially sensitive to Founder feedback and opinions, when in truth the Founders forum is closed and our feedback has been limited to a few polls and closed discussions.  The issues all being described would not be issues if DE valued it's Founder's feedback and actually listened.  Instead, it seems like a quick money grab scheme, where DE taunts players into investing heavily into a game and then fails to live up to their promises, and we Founders watch in misery as the game slowly deviates away from its initial purpose and strays into the classic trap where developers take long breaks from working and lose touch with the player base.

 

Please DE, this is literally our last attempt to grab your attention.

Kinda offtopic-ish, but how's that application to warbros going? 

@Fool

Well, no need to wonder, since we know exactly where that promise ended up, no?

Edited January 11, 2014 by Blatantfool
No. No. No. No. NO. NO. NO.

[DaftMeat]

The issue I continually run into is that DE promised it would listen to us.  This is especially true for Founders, we purchased the Founders packages with the explicit promise of DE being especially sensitive to Founder feedback and opinions, when in truth the Founders forum is closed and our feedback has been limited to a few polls and closed discussions.  The issues all being described would not be issues if DE valued it's Founder's feedback and actually listened.  Instead, it seems like a quick money grab scheme, where DE taunts players into investing heavily into a game and then fails to live up to their promises, and we Founders watch in misery as the game slowly deviates away from its initial purpose and strays into the classic trap where developers take long breaks from working and lose touch with the player base.

Truth. +1

[(PSN)Kitehighland]

Remember that time they promised us rewards for master ranks like slots and stuff? Yeah, good times.

There does need to be some reward for upping mastery ranks whether slots or perks similar to badass ranks or paragon levels from other games.

[Archistopheles]

There does need to be some reward for upping mastery ranks whether slots or perks similar to badass ranks or paragon levels from other games.

 

It can't translate to power, though... Not yet.

 

I really really don't want to be forced to grind another melee weapon just to get a +1 to my accuracy for hitting the next rank, or what-have-you.

[knoth]

Just to clarify something.

 

When you say from "your veterans" and speak to the first person throughout your post. Do you really believe we all share your views on the same topics here?

 

Because I'd like to know if this is your view alone, then please, change your title to "A letter from one of your concerned veteran". Could it be the view of a small group of people talking together? Or you actually have the general consensus of the majority of the veterans playing here?

 

In no way does this mean I disapprove with everything you said, I just find it pretty bold of you to include all of us in your title to add some kind of fake weight to your thread.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm mostly quiet when it comes to these big issues but I would like to address this point in particular. The consensus spoken of is of every single leaderboard clan we are in touch with, new and old. Of different nations, languages and tiers-- a portion of which encompasses the two most active and large moon clans.

 

There have been cross-clan  discussions on as many raidcall and teamspeak servers as possible prior to the creation of these threads. A widespread consensus reached when it became difficult for dedicated players to dedicate themselves to the game in following the Cicero event. If you sum the number of players in the clans represented by these warlords and their officers, I would say the 'veteran' count reaches easily into the thousands.

 

These opinions do not represent everyone, and they will differ slightly as each individual posts their views. The posts are representative of a significant and large population of a dedicated playerbase.

[Kitaiikan]

I am at the end game.  Literally the only weapons I lack since the beginning of this game are Vandal Lato, Vandal Braton, and Detron.  I am a Grand Master and am heavily invested into this game.  The issues I have are the drop rates.  Some of the more ridiculous ones were the Ember Prime, Burston Prime, with older ones being something so simple as Control Modules.  It literally took me over 10 hours to farm Burston Prime, the Stock being the missing factor.  With Ember Prime, I recorded my missions, and ended up running over 40 T3 Captures, over 80 T2 Captures, and around 80 T1 Captures.  I sent in a support ticket with the concern that per every 30 Captures I ran, I got less than 1 Ember Prime drop, stating that the drop system was biased against Ember Prime drops.  The response I got from several developers and to my support ticket was that the drops were fine.  No, they aren't.

 

With the Harvester, it's nearly impossible.  First off, there is no published method of attracting the Harvest.  Once again, DE fails to inform the player base with their Codex.  Instead, when players are resourceful enough to establish EE log reading programs, DE patches it out of the game immediately.  DE, you could have simply told us how the Harvester works.  You could have edited the Harvester to simply drop the BP instead of requiring 4 seperate components to build it, instead you decided to suppress the player base's efforts(specifically Lynches') by disabling the programs, treating the symptoms you found inconvenient, instead of asking why those programs were designed in the first place.  Why would people be so desperate to resort to third party programs?  Maybe it's a design flaw?  Maybe it's on you, DE, to construct a friendlier method of getting the Detron, especially for those of us who sided Corpus and were sorely disappointed to not get the Detron?

 

The issue I continually run into is that DE promised it would listen to us.  This is especially true for Founders, we purchased the Founders packages with the explicit promise of DE being especially sensitive to Founder feedback and opinions, when in truth the Founders forum is closed and our feedback has been limited to a few polls and closed discussions.  The issues all being described would not be issues if DE valued it's Founder's feedback and actually listened.  Instead, it seems like a quick money grab scheme, where DE taunts players into investing heavily into a game and then fails to live up to their promises, and we Founders watch in misery as the game slowly deviates away from its initial purpose and strays into the classic trap where developers take long breaks from working and lose touch with the player base.

 

Please DE, this is literally our last attempt to grab your attention.

 

Yes, Yes, Yes, and wait for moreeeeeeeeeeeeee... Yes

 

RNG is a high problem, DE NEED to listen feedback about it and stop look across the windows.

 

Destroy the stalker program's, like they do, is unrespectable for the dev' and for people who search answer.

When something unforeseen occurs, you can't spit at the face of people who search solution.