Who Is The New Useless Frame?

[honk1234]

I think mag should be in mid hight tier? sheild pol then pull kill almosst all in before phobos plus most teir 1 and 2. and she has rhino sheilds.

[honk1234]

nekros should be lower because of the effort it takes to get him.

[Brontolith]

I have a different way of measuring frames then most I guess.

[RawGritz]

I've been playing for over a year. But i just recently--on a whim--decided to build Loki. Good lord how I underestimated him. 

 

i just REALLY wish his decoy either would self-destruct like a count down timer...when it dies or is recast somewhere else.

 

OR or or... I wish you could throw out more than 1 decoy.

 

Still he is pretty amazing. I use Shade instead of maxing out Invisibility with the 3 duration mods.

Radial Disarm is the most underrated ability in Warframe. Hey you platoon of a 12 Grineer Bombard and Napalm heavies... Why carry those weighty MASSIVE dps weapons when you can trade them up for these wonder magic wands. The best part, they glow at the top to light those nasty and dark Grineer Galleons.

Edited January 22, 2014 by RawGritz

[Issun135]

is nova still considered a glass cannon now? As I've sort of of made my own build. 540 shield 420 hp? not bad for a nova. and i normally rock the miter for the AM-drop + miter combo (upwards of 6-digit numbers in dmg achieved from one charged blade) but i have the Lanka for mastery and the pseudo-snipetron

here forma X2

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3282297892520949081/C8F0E2DF9ED5BA63927588A52EFA4D1D0F2C1271/

[Kato-san]

I have a different way of measuring frames then most I guess.

That is a pretty good way to sum it up.

[Aigloblam]

I have a different way of measuring frames then most I guess.

 

Actually....Thats a really good way of measuring it. With a couple small details. Nobody asks for a Mag or Loki because thats  what they themselves are probably going to be playing, so they don't need another. But All in all....I very much like what you've done.

[SquirmyBurrito]

What you seem to be looking for is "good vs all situations", then be my guest and pick Rhino-Soma-Brakk-Galatine.

 

You mean "Loki-Soma-Brakk-Galatine"? 

 

-snip-

 

I was wondering when you'd get here, lol.

 

Also why are Loki users so bias? Loki maybe be good to people who prefer his play style but is for sure NOT the only god tier frame, Loki users, although he is a decent frame, need to get over themselves. As far as survivability goes, you can't only judge that on his abilities alone. Loki is probably the squishiest frame which counters his "good" abilities.

 

Loki having low health/shields doesn't matter since he can reduce the chances of you taking any damage to 0%. Loki takes Vauban from low-mid tier (a mostly one faction wonder like old Volt) and turns him into a CC-beast. And Loki doesn't even need Vauban, Decoy makes infested easy, and Radial Disarm+Decoy makes the Grineer and Corpus just as easy.

 

So he has good mobility (sprint speed, Decoy+Switch Teleport), he has good CC (Radial Disarm and/or Decoy), he has pseudo-invincibility (invisibility), he has a good melee buff (not that this really matters right now, hopefully M2.0 changes that some how).

 

I have a different way of measuring frames then most I guess.

-snip-

 

All that shows is how sad it is that our community hasn't learned how useful certain frames can be (blindcalibur for example).

Edited January 22, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[LennoFF]

This is hard to gauge since it's mostly player preference.  Personally, Oberon is one of my favorite frames.  Have 6 forma on him, lol.  When I first started playing, my friend told me to start with Loki and Mag was stupid,  I couldn't stand Loki and never used him after I hit 30 and got another frame or two.  However now, I love Loki and found many uses for him.

 

I think this also has to do with how long you've been playing and how into the game you are.  When I was new, all I wanted was a Rhino and a Nova.  I wanted to not die, and I wanted to kill everything.  I'd read some of the abilities for Nyx, Trinity, and I would say, OK, just another worthless frame.  The more I played, the more I understood and appreciated the abilities of other frames.  I no longer wanted to just blow up Kappa.  I was now taking Nyx to high level defense over Rhino. 

 

I enjoy that not every frame is good at everything.  I enjoy taking Nekros to farm, knowing I won't have a high kill count, etc...  It's hard to judge good and bad frames when there are so many variables to mix into the equation.

[StuffedTurkey007]

*The new ranking system should be based on how useful each ability is, and the frame survivability, no mods, just their abilities.

 

I disagree. Frames that have higher potential due to compatibility with powerful mods like Fleeting Expertise should be ranked taking this advantage into account. For instance, Mag wouldn't be as powerful if it weren't for the fact that she can cast her ult for 25 power and no drawbacks.

[asiveni]

No love for spider girl eh?.

[Guest Shibboleet]

While loki can invis, there is still a chance you can take damage.

[Deathstroke2000]

Right now it gotto be Banshee

[Phobose]

I disagree on most of low and mid tier.

Nekros Ember and Oberon should be mid tier.

Loki is not god tier, sorry to break it to all of you who are die hard loki fans (I started with and have a maxed loki)

He should be placed in high tier with Ash volt and mag.

Judging from the structure of this tier list it doesnt look based on abilities but on defense mission utility tbh.

Volt and mag decimate corpus.

Oberon is seriously getting some major backlash for reasons which I cannot see.

Banshee needs some serious time under the knife, including ways on how to grab her being rated the rarest frame to grab without platinum.

Nekros currently has 2 utilities: a desecration build and a Shadows of the dead Army build.

Ive gotten deep into survivals with my ember about 40 minutes in Cassini. I was still chewing through light/mid units and gunning down heavy grineer units. Only problem was survivability.

Ash has offensive abilities that deal decent damage nd has a slightly shorter duration than Loki's invisibility, which has more utility than Loki's invisibility (the stagger) minus his energy capacity.

In short: heres my opinion.

God Tier: none and should not exist.

High Tier: Frost, Loki, Ash, Vauban, Nyx, Nova, Trinity, Rhino, Mag, Volt

Mid tier: Saryn, Oberon, Nekros, Ember, Excalibur

Low Tier: Banshee, Valkyr

[TheStag]

Well, Trinity, Nova, Rhino, and Loki are god tier. That team..... amazing. Vauban is right below them. Banshee would be up with Vaub depending on the build, but generally down with Valk. Ash would be mid, Oberon mid, Saryn.... low, etc.

[-XeqtR]

I love how everyone bags on banshee, just polarize out your slot for Silence and you have 3 solid abilities.

[BoomstickJohnson]

God Tier - Nova, Rhino, Trinity.

High Tier - Frost, Vauban, Nyx, Mag, Oberon, Loki

Mid Tier - Ash, Ember, Volt, Excalibur

Low Tier - Saryn, Banshee, Nekros

Useless Tier - Valkyr

 

Nova - Glass cannon, capable of wiping an entire room on everything except endless defense, able to destroy very high level mobs with Antimatter Drop.

Rhino - God tank, boosts team damage, strong ultimate with CC.

Trinity - Permanent invincibility, link for nice damage reflection and resistance to crowd control.

 

Frost - Ranged defense king, decent damage.

Vauban - Infested defense king, Tesla can be useful.

Nyx - CC queen, good ultimate if used correctly.

Mag - Capable of completely restoring shields and wiping out groups of Corpus at the same time, good CC, Bullet Attractor.

Oberon - Spammable tier one, Hallowed Ground is nice against Infested, team healer, capable of reviving teammates, strong ultimate + health orbs.

Loki - Decoy extremely useful if placed correctly, Invisibility is Invisibility, Radial Disarm is good if used smartly. Not in God Tier because of squishiness.

 

Ash - Spammable tier one, Smoke Screen, strong damage ultimate. Damage falloff in higher levels.

Ember - Strong tier one, good CC power, very strong ultimate. Damage falloff in higher levels.

Volt - Tier one damage is decent, Speed, CC capability. Damage falloff in higher levels.

Excalibur - Good CC power, strong but limited ultimate.

 

Saryn - Good ultimate, tanky. Molt needs to be on Decoy level, powers need to be looked at.

Banshee - Good for Sonar and Sonar only. Powers need complete rework.

Nekros - Good in theory, powers need to be buffed/looked at.

 

Valkyr - What is this? Tier one is fun and can be decent. Tier two is good in theory, bad in practice. Tier three is terrible. Ultimate needs to be buffed. Powers need to be looked at/need rework. Tier one allows Valkyr to be put into sniper spots, but is supposed to be a berserker.

 

As you can probably tell, Frames with utility tend to be at the top, where as pure damage Frames can't keep up (with the exception of Nova). Lower tiers are made up of Warframes with poorly designed abilities.

[-XeqtR]

Banshee - Good for Sonar and Sonar only. Powers need complete rework.

 

1. Push-back, great for things rushing inside the frost globe on a pod.

2. Sonar as you already mentioned

3. Silence is crap I will agree

4. The longest range stagger in the game. It's a pseudo vauban and I have tested this by doing an infested defense to 100 without a Vauban. Yes. I spammed Sound-Quake that whole time, but that's not the point.

[koopagon]

 

why?

 

loki: no matter where, he can be useful.

nyx: chaos and mind control for CC, absorption scales with enemies. a good all round support frame

 

frost: must have when defending against grineer or corpus.

nova: good synergy with other frames and makes everyone else do more damage

rhino: good tanking with CC

trinity: decent tanking with healing support skills

vauban: master of infested maps

 

banshee: sonar with decent CC, silence is pretty useless; a bit squishy for the range some of her abilities require

ember: lack of armor from losing overheat made her overly squishy, while her speed is a bit slow for how limited range her abilities are

mag: pull is a little lackluster now, but polarize and crush do help to make up for it.

oberon: ok healer with good damage tendencies aside hallowed ground

saryn: DoT damage from abilities with a gimped decoy

volt: decent damage abilities with a team speed buff but somewhat conflicts with electric shield

 

valkyr: all abilities are overly focused around hysteria and leaves range to be desired.

nekros: only truly useful ability is desecrate; terrify disperses mobs and shadows of the dead is pretty useless

excalibur: radial blind can be useful, but slash dash overall beats out javelin for use due to it's limited projectiles

 

ash: shuriken leaves alot to be desired, smokebomb CC is ok but ability time is rather short,teleport is useful for hobbled vault hunting but low use for enemies, blade storm lacks damage and timely efficiency.

[Shanicus]

Hmmm... Just factoring in Solo play (which I do a lot of), I'd put them in this list - Assumed Enemies at level, say, 40.

God Tier: Loki

High Tier: Rhino, Trinity, Nyx, Mag

Mid Tier: Oberon, Saryn, Frost, Excal, Vauban

Low Tier: Nova, Ember, Banshee, Nekros, Valkyr, Ash, Volt

As for Co-op play - Same enemy level assumptions:

 

God Tier: Loki, Trinity
High Tier: Rhino, Nyx, Mag, Vauban, Nova

Mid Tier: Frost, Saryn, Nekros, Oberon, Excal, Banshee

Low Tier: Ember, Valkyr, Ash, Volt
 

With God Tier as 'Everything Works', High Tier as 'Everything's Pretty Good', Mid Tier as 'Average, some flaws' and low tier as 'Outclassed, Underpowered or Needs a Rework'.

 

Frame by Frame -

Loki: All his abilities just work so well, with his invisibility and mobility making up for his fragile status. Decoy, Switch Teleport, Invisibility and Radial Disarm have zero disadvantages, scaling well with enemies.
Trinity: Blessing, Energy Vampire and Link do wonders for her Solo, with her abilities doing even more in Co-op play. Healing and Invulnerability from 5 rooms away is definite God Tier for Co-op.

 

Rhino: High Survivability, High Mobility and a very powerful CC ability make Rhino great for solo. Rhino Roar gives Co-op teams an edge against high level enemies too.

Nyx: Great CC and a surprising amount of survivability, Nyx can work well in both Solo and Co-op, mind-controlling entire hordes and using Absorb to keep herself (or a defense target) alive.
Mag: Pull and Crush for CC, 150 base shields and Shield Polarize give her a good set of both power strength and survivability. Bullet Attractor isn't the best, but it can be used to wipe out a heavy or boss pretty easily.
Vauban: Fantastic CC abilities, but... best against the Infested due to short range of them. Low survivability makes closing the gap in Solo difficult, but in Co-op he has more options due to attacks not being focused on him.

 

Frost: Rhino-level survivability and Snow Globe makes Frost perfect for defense missions, but his other abilities are all god-awful so he's very quickly over-shadowed by Rhino in later levels where mobility and CC are better.

Nova: High Mobility frame and has M.Prime to soften targets up, she's high tier on Co-op thanks to that ability but low tier on Solo due to her fragile nature and the fact that her other abilities do not scale well at all. M.Prime isn't much good when you die before you can make use of it, no?

Saryn: High survivability and decent damage skills, but Molt scales better than all of them. Doesn't have a reliable stun outside spamming high-energy ultimates, so she's a mid-tier - not bad, but scales poorly at higher levels.
Excal: Fragile in the later levels thanks to his 100/100/65 stats but has a good spread of abilities - Radial Blind is an excellent CC and Slash Dash/Super Jump are great for mobility. Radial Javelin is useless as hell though, unless paired with a Mag.

Oberon: Powerful Ultimate and a strong heal, but his other abilities are pretty niche and the heal's slow movement speed means he's horribly outclassed by Trinity as a healer and outclassed as a CC frame by Rhino.

Banshee: Built as a stealth frame with nothing to stealth; Gets a mid-tier Co-op due to Sonar and her No.1 as light CC, but everything else on her is pretty useless. Low survivability doesn't help her Ultimate either.
Ember: Pure damage is nice, but doesn't scale well - Accelerant gives her some extra strength but setting up both Accelerant and WoF can be lethal at high levels thanks to cast times. Good if your teammates use fire, not so good if they use anything else (which they will).
Valkyr: can turn herself invincible, which is nice - unfortunately, the damage output of Hysteria's melee weapons is pretty terrible at higher levels. Ripline is useful for mobility but slow, Warcry is not too useful and her shield-bash thing could be better.

Ash: Thoroughly outclassed by Loki as a stealth frame; Bladestorm takes too long to complete and doesn't do much damage, Teleport has minimal usefulness due to enemy targeting and Shuriken is nice but scales poorly. High HP is offset by low armour, so more frail than he looks.

Volt: Like Ember - Great damage abilities versus Corpus, but doesn't scale that well with higher levels. Electric Shield isn't too bad and Speed can help out with the team, but everything else about him is pretty sub-par.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Shanicus

[Beheader87]

This is my opinion of what I think it should be like, but I've only played as these frames(Frost, Ash, Valkyr, Nova, Nekros, Excalibur. Banshee, Volt, Vauban):

God Tier: Nyx

High Tier: Ash, Vauban, Frost, Nova, Rhino

Mid Tier: Oberon, Loki, Excalibur, Mag, Ember, Trinity, Volt, Saryn

Low Tier: Banshee, Valkyr

 

Nyx is god tier(even though I've never played her) because all of her abilities are utility, which becomes king and later level content and enemies.

 

Loki is only mid tier for various reasons. His ultimate is USELESS against one entire faction(33% of enemies), decoy doesn't really serve any purpose during the later levels, as it is killed too easily, Switch Teleport is VERY situational(trolling not included) and the only ability with 100% effectiveness throughout the entire game is his invisibility, which can last for a while(which is why I believe the whole "Loki Master Race" is even here. 

 

Many might wonder why Ash is above Loki in the tiers... My main reason is that Ash simply has better abilities for any faction high level gameplay. His bladestorm could be used as an opportunity to regen shields while also dealing damage to targets, his teleport is what Loki's teleport wants to be, and his smoke screen costs less(35 energy v 50 energy) than Loki's invisibility, has a stun effect and at max duration, has only 9 less seconds(30 seconds v 21 seconds). With those in mind, Ash keeps his utility much longer than Loki would. Please don't start another "LOKI IS BETTER IDIOT, YOURE JUST AN ASH FANBOY" because keep in mind this is MY opinion and i know there will be conflicting ones.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Beheader87

[RawGritz]

This is my opinion of what I think it should be like, but I've only played as these frames(Frost, Ash, Valkyr, Nova, Nekros, Excalibur. Banshee, Volt, Vauban):

God Tier: Nyx

High Tier: Ash, Vauban, Frost, Nova, Rhino

Mid Tier: Oberon, Loki, Excalibur, Mag, Ember, Trinity, Volt, Saryn

Low Tier: Banshee, Valkyr

 

Nyx is god tier(even though I've never played her) because all of her abilities are utility, which becomes king and later level content and enemies.

 

Loki is only mid tier for various reasons. His ultimate is USELESS against one entire faction(33% of enemies), decoy doesn't really serve any purpose during the later levels, as it is killed too easily, Switch Teleport is VERY situational(trolling not included) and the only ability with 100% effectiveness throughout the entire game is his invisibility, which can last for a while(which is why I believe the whole "Loki Master Race" is even here. 

 

Many might wonder why Ash is above Loki in the tiers... My main reason is that Ash simply has better abilities for any faction high level gameplay. His bladestorm could be used as an opportunity to regen shields while also dealing damage to targets, his teleport is what Loki's teleport wants to be, and his smoke screen costs less(35 energy v 50 energy) than Loki's invisibility, has a stun effect and at max duration, has only 9 less seconds. With those in mind, Ash keeps his utility much longer than Loki would. Please don't start another "LOKI IS BETTER IDIOT, YOURE JUST AN ASH FANBOY" because keep in mind this is MY opinion and i know there will be conflicting ones.

Radial Disarm doesn't work on infested and yes the decoy dies quickly against ballistics. 

 

But the decoy is massively effective against the infested. They can't harm it until they reach it. Reaching it requires them to divert their attention away from you and your squad. 

[Eisen]

I don't get how people put excalibro in low-mid tier, really.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Loki is only mid tier for various reasons. His ultimate is USELESS against one entire faction(33% of enemies), decoy doesn't really serve any purpose during the later levels, as it is killed too easily, Switch Teleport is VERY situational(trolling not included) and the only ability with 100% effectiveness throughout the entire game is his invisibility, which can last for a while(which is why I believe the whole "Loki Master Race" is even here. 

 

Many might wonder why Ash is above Loki in the tiers... My main reason is that Ash simply has better abilities for any faction high level gameplay. His bladestorm could be used as an opportunity to regen shields while also dealing damage to targets, his teleport is what Loki's teleport wants to be, and his smoke screen costs less(35 energy v 50 energy) than Loki's invisibility, has a stun effect and at max duration, has only 9 less seconds(30 seconds v 21 seconds). With those in mind, Ash keeps his utility much longer than Loki would. Please don't start another "LOKI IS BETTER IDIOT, YOURE JUST AN ASH FANBOY" because keep in mind this is MY opinion and i know there will be conflicting ones.

 

I'll explain, 

 

Yes, Radial Disarm is useless against infested, but Decoy is amazing against them.

 

Yes, Decoy can die pretty quickly. But only if enemies can get to it. Oh, no ranged enemies? Radial Disarm makes them no different than infested.

 

Invisibility is pseudo-invincibility. It lasting longer means Loki could also use max fleeting expertise and he'd still be invisible for a respectable amount of time.

 

He is also faster than Ash. Two of Ash's abilities are damage abilities, damage abilities fall-off eventually. None of Loki's abilities suffer this.

[RawGritz]

Switch Teleport is VERY situational(trolling not included) and the only ability with 100% effectiveness throughout the entire game is his invisibility, which can last for a while(which is why I believe the whole "Loki Master Race" is even here. 

 

Loki owns his teleport by using decoy and can reach areas Ash never will. Ash's teleport is dependent on a target he does not control.