Who Is The New Useless Frame?

[Sixty5]

Frames are hard to tier.

Loads of people think Banshee is bad, but given my experience with her I'm inclined to disagree.

So instead how about I tier attributes.

Single target damage is the worst attribute any frame can have. For the most part it scales badly and is either overkill or just not enough.

Mobility is next. Sure t is useful but to be fair, getting around isnt that hard.

Next I'd say is healing. It is good, but just healing cannot win a game.

Aoe damage is next. It still doesn't scale well but hitting everything enough will kill everything. I'd say this is tied with healing actually.

Buffs and debuffs come next. Since they make things easier at any level.

Finally id say that crowd control would be the best attribute a frame can have, since a controlled crowd might as well be Fish in a barrel.

Of course the scale of these attributes is also a factor.

[DarknightK]

Armor NEEDS to be reworked for Valkyr to be useful. Also, Ripline should cost 5 energy if you latch onto a surface rather than an enemy. Furthermore, Hysteria should not deal damage even though enemies are still around. That's just counter-intuitive. Lastly, make Hysteria attacks do decent damage and unique animations for Slide, Finisher, and Jump attacks. Hopefully Melee 2.0 will apply to Hysteria and will give Valkyr some more movement flexibility.

 

Onto Ash, Teleport needs to be a free-aim ability, and Bladestorm, while useful in some cases, is too awkward of an ability. It's needs a tweak, but not a full-on rework.

 

Nekros: A lot of people hated his abilities and even gave some more useful ideas when Nekros first came out. They were ignored and now we have a frame that is mainly used for his 3 only. The other skills are just a bonus. If I could mention any tweaking, it would be to make Terrified enemies cower in fear instead of running off. Pretty hard to kill them when they're mobile.

[Aigloblam]

You could type that all day and make every frame into the 'MOST useless'. It would just be Loki at the top permanently invisible and everyone else in the low tier.

 

That's not an argument it's just negativity.

 

When you're playing high levels you need a team that consistently applies CC, damage buffs, and cover. Ember is capable of applying 2/3 with high effectiveness over a large area with no limitations like Power in Use. That makes her High Tier. Easily.

Rhino has CC, Damage Buffs, AND is nowhere near squishy. Nova does the same, But does more damage.  Everything Ember can do, Almost every frame can do better. Accelerant will onIy effect HER power, since everybody else will be modded for elemental combos, not just fire. It's not negativity, its just the state of things. Facts. I feel the need to remind you that she is my second favorite frame, and im sitting somewhere around 35 Mil XP with her, so its not like i never play her. 

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Banshee's Sonar is key in applying 50x damage multiplier to enemies in combo with Nova and Rhino. Just saying.

Also, tiers are only valid per mission type. God of defense is different from god of sabotage.

[Hired-Gun]

But what about Mag's mega nuke bomb on high level corpus

[Nkomo-Sama]

yea I'd have to say banshee right now... silence is...a pointless power given the games current game play mechanics. Stealth is not viable....yet?  Plus her base power/shield/armor/health rating make modding her a real pain... I have all the frames now save for Nyx (don't kill me) and she is definitely my least used... as a matter of fact I'm gonna play her right now to see if I can be more detailed....

 

 

btw for those that say valkyr I say your doing it wrong... max Rage, high equilibrium, max steelfiber..focus+ hysteria.... = Superhulkwolvampireverene of doom...

[-CM-Syein]

Valkyr, fix the damn valkyr!! 

Dps is the worst off at high lvl, she can not do anything excepted waiting for party members to kill mobs so that she could take those energy orbs on the ground just to stay alive. 

[-CM-Syein]

yea I'd have to say banshee right now... silence is...a pointless power given the games current game play mechanics. Stealth is not viable....yet?  Plus her base power/shield/armor/health rating make modding her a real pain... I have all the frames now save for Nyx (don't kill me) and she is definitely my least used... as a matter of fact I'm gonna play her right now to see if I can be more detailed....

 

 

btw for those that say valkyr I say your doing it wrong... max Rage, high equilibrium, max steelfiber..focus+ hysteria.... = Superhulkwolvampireverene of doom...

you haven't experience valkyr at all in 25min+ don't cha. I got focus + blind rage and it does't scratch a piece. 

[TheSeannachaidh]

I really have to disagree with your placement of Banshee. If your intent is to play her as a DPS, then you have her all wrong. I would put her as a High Tier as a Support Warframe. Silence is useless, but that opens up another slot for stat-enhancing mods, which make her other abilities more powerful. 

Sonic Boom: Great, low-cost, multi-target CC ability, which is excellent for clearing the Cryopod for Defense or making room in linear mission types if a crowd gets hard to handle.

Sonar: Massive damage buff for everyone on your team who can aim just a little bit. Sonar also has the added utility of revealing enemies on the minimap (not sure if this is still bugged) -- this allows you to respond more effectively to swarmed teammates etc..

Sound Quake: Massive AoE CC ability that stuns all targets for 6 seconds and has the chance to do Blast Damage and knockdown enemies for additional time. You can make this do more damage, but I think it is better to thing of it as a stun ability. Vauban may have longer stun duration, but with my build below, Banshee can CC more targets.


You would do well to run Banshee with a Shade Sentinel as she is quite squishy; I also like to combine this with max Redirection and Fortitude  to make sure that you don't have to spend time a lot of time invisible to regenerate your shield, which are your main defense as she has really low armour causing her health not to last very long even with a high Rank Vitality. Next you want to max out your power efficiency with Streamline and Fleeting Expertise (please note that Sound Quake in uneffected by duration mods, so you will still have a 6 second stun with max Fleeting). Lastly, I would advise going full range over power to run her as a CC Support rather than a damage dealer, so put in max Stretch and Overextended and enjoy your ~50m stun.on Sound Quake and ~35m 180 degree knockdown on Sonic Boom. Obviously some people will choose to swap in Vitality for extra durability and Flow for a larger energy pool with certain mods that I have chosen.

 

Edited January 21, 2014 by TheSeannachaidh

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

I don't think anything reaches god tier so I rank it on High,Mid and Low

 

High Tier:Vauban,Nyx,Trinity,Nova,Rhino

Semi High Tier:Saryn,Frost,Loki

Mid Tier:Valkyr,Oberon,Banshee,Ember,Nekros

Low Tier:Ash,Excalibur,Volt,Mag

 

I have noticed when I help out new players and they choose Loki they most say they don't like him then sell him as soon as they get a new warframe and I think that's mostly because they don't have the right mods to make him amazing and I think that Ash overall would be more noob friendly then Loki and they should be switched out as starter frames mostly because Ash has some kill power and is still useful at the lower levels. 

 

Vauban and his Bastille is amazing for fighting infested but other factions is just ok unless you use Loki with max overextended+stretch and you are playing a defense mission then its amazing for all factions.

 

Nyx with max range mods chaos is crazy good because everything ignores you and if playing defense they also ignore the cryopod.

 

Rhino's Iron skin makes absorbs damage and cannot be knocked down while active,Roar is amazing damage buff and Stomp is great for reviving teammates

 

Nova's Molecular Prime is amazing just for the debuff.

 

Trinity if built right and everyone with energy siphon can help you have basically unlimited blessing(god mode) only way to make it better is a skill timer to let you know when it wares off so you don't have to keep mashing the skill button when you think the time is almost up.<---Finding all duration mods and maxing them out takes a very long time but is rewarding in the end.

 

Frost is debatable about High and Mid Tier and that's only because of his snow globe while that skills is amazing all of his other skills are just kinda bad

 

Saryn is still good with the right build for in the Void because her miasma does base corrosive damage but not 100% sure if that makes her high tier worthy yet. 

 

Loki can take full advantage of Corrupted Mods like overextend and Fleeting Expertise and with his radial disarm he is amazing for defense mission and just regular missions that you want to rush

 

Nekros is mostly only good for farming mods and other resources and in this game it can be useful to a point but not at the very end game so he is stuck in mid tier. 

 

Valkyr,Oberon,Banshee,Ember: I think they are mid tier because they have decent damage output but not anything amazing and nothing that useful for utility skills.

 

Ash,Excalibur,Volt,Mag: I am honestly not sure what version of mags pull is right now but I know it is going to change or has changed so its back to lowest tier, Ash can be good but compared to other frames to me he still seems to be in a low tier and until stealth becomes useful then he will be more mid tier. Excalibur is not amazing but not bad, Volt is kinda bad but thats only because it has base electricity damage and thats just not very useful and that's a tricky themed frame to fix.

 

I think I covered all frames and if you don't agree with me just go and comment in detail why you think that. These are just from my experiences and my opinion.

Edited January 21, 2014 by TriggerHappyWhiteGuy

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

But what about Mag's mega nuke bomb on high level corpus

Mag Prime with Aura slot forma'd to fit energy siphon is God tier vs corpus. Still good against everything else.

 

The only really bad Warframe is Valkyr. Valkyr player just ends up relying on weapon. She's like a rhino without abilities.

[ShinySmile]

I don't get how valkyr is lowest.. I use her to solo Phorid and it makes it easier than with any other frame.

[SlapClown]

I don't understand are there really that many Bad ash player's  to put him so low?

 

.. Its not just about CC if you can make life easy for the nuke class aka  1 trick pony's by blind siding the bad guys and reviving the  nuke class aka 1 trick pony's

 

Top Tier to me are  the frames you don't have to babysit  Ash loki Rhino Frost  Vauban Nekros

 

 

While i am at it  STAY THE f @&% OF ASH OR LOKI COAT TAILS WHEN WE ARE  REVIVING  A DOWN PLAYER  ALL YOU DO IS DRAW FIRE ..

 

 

I know my post  don't show my play time but i have played all class's  i have 500+ hrs in the game  i know  i know  it not a ton of hrs but this is how i see things  from game play 

 

[Anarook]

OMG THAT OBERON IMAGE AHAHAHA

[Arxiun]

First of all: Oberon, I can't, just, no, and now I want DE to make that his first helmet. Second: I believe that all the frames need a better balancing, since most of these are balances for the game, and not each other. While I do believe some like Nekros or Frost that are harder to get should be better, I think that they should be a bit more equal. To many times have I, as frost, carried the team, whether it be the one who has to revive everyone (such is the life of the tank that never dies) or popping snowglobe in defense missions, and It makes me get a bit bored (I.E. i was never downed in the Cicero Crisis, same for void keys). I personally think that some frames could use a nerf *coughs*Nova/Rhino*coughs* and some a buff *cough cough* Mag *cough cough* and some just need a rework of their abilities *cough cough cough* Oberon *cough cough cough*. Again these are just my opinions, and they're based off experiences with myself and that of other players, just talking about general performance.

[magalor]

I myself think valk is useless almost not worth the frame slot if it wasn't for ripline being one of the most enjoyable skills in the game. rhino, nova, loki, vauban. I'd say are high/god tier depending on what your doing obviously vauben isn't that great on grinner exterminate missions but infested defense hes on a whole different plane of existence to most frame.

 

Banshee is low teir. her cc with sonic boom spam is fun and the dmg buff from sonar can be very usefull but its still meh and silence just needs to be something else entirely, till than its not worth the mod slots or the energy to even mouse over the skill to laugh at its uselessness. 

 

Ember is still kinda low to me but shes gotten so much attention lets just leave her alone for a few months and focus on frames that could use some love. For example I think you still can't melee or use other powers still after volts ulti not for sure though been a few weeks since I played him and i don't recall fixes being in any posts.

 

Nekros is such a cool idea and design but hes just so meh to me since his 4 isn't all that great. would be cool if he got 8 summons of each fractions best units for instance maybe spawn a corpus tech, 2 ancients and some heavy grinner ranging from heavy gunner to bombards maybe even 3-4 elite lancers or crewman.

 

rest of the frames are ok I think. oberons really slow movement wise. so a speed or stam buff would just be a nice quality of life change. other than that I can't think of any frames that need immeadiate attention or looks at.

 

I'd like to see primes not just be fancy looking with different polarities but that's a different issue but still should be looked at.

[LordMidnightX]

hmm I am just going to put in my 2 cents I have played every frame to 30 with a reactor on it and well you have to look at this in the perspective of what missions you are playing and if you have a team or not, and how good your guns are.

 

also I don't think we should say a frame is the best just because it is the best at mass killing

 

ok I am just going to go though each frame as I see it

 

Oberon- he is more for support really, Reckoning just is not powerful enough or good enough cc to be viable later. He is not bad but he has his own style still mid tier though.

 

Valkyr- she is mobile, and can go invulnerable for a pretty long period of time, But her ult kinda annoying just to tap e a bunch and in late game you do not want to lose use of your guns, so mid tier for her

 

Nekros- this frame actually has some pretty good cc, with terrify and he can summon a bunch of decoys essentially and they can even fight back. I would put him at mid tier still but he is desirable on higher level mission because of desecrate and assuming you have good weapons.

 

Nova- high tier I think we all know why so no point in me reiterating

 

Vauban- high tier he has lots of energy and awesome cc abilities that last a long time, these with along with good weapons make him awesome

 

Banshee- she is probably more in the support category, her ult can lock down a large group of enemies but a vauban can do it better, her other abilities are pretty good (not counting silence) so she is mid tier but desirable for late game if she has a good team that she can support and good weapons of course. 

 

Saryn- she can kill but in late game that starts to fall off and is replaced by cc abilities so mid tier

 

Trinity- Mid tier only because she has team invincibility and that has to be mod properly for duration to make it worth it.

 

Volt- he is not a high damage alternative to gun play but he does have some good stuns and his shield can augment weapons and speed is fun, so Mid tier

 

Ash- low tier, not good enough damage or a long enough invisibility.

 

Nyx- High tier, great cc

 

Ember- low tier, she has ok damage but it is only fire damage and without overheat she just is not so good

 

Frost- mid tier but needed on high tier because of globe

 

Excalibur- not sure why he gets put into low tier by people he is at least mid tier because of radial blind, it is pretty cheap and pretty good cc, he also has pretty good utility in slash dash and super jump

 

Mag- with pull she can cc a good amount of enemies and shield polarize is pretty good, I would put her at mid tier

 

Rhino- high tier he is all around good with ok damage, a buff, and cc, as well as the utility of rhino charge, and of course the survivability of iron skin

 

Loki- high tier but only if you have good weapons, seriously, modded correctly you can remain invisible for a long time and during that time with a good gun you can kill everything. Also you can support your team by taking care of heavy units either by killing them or taking away their guns. He is not for everyone but still he is a god :D

[Seanjuju]

Frames are not hard to tier guys, seriously.

[-CM-Syein]

I don't get how valkyr is lowest.. I use her to solo Phorid and it makes it easier than with any other frame.

phorid is so easy to kill, not necessary valkyr. I bring mag, a few gun shots and it die. 

She is the lowest when it come to lvl when it took hysteria several punches and still can't kill napalm or heavy gunner, while guns can still do that job easily. 

 

Valkyr is not low tier when it come to survival for sure, but that survival is what make her lowest in damage. 

[UAlreadyLost]

Too much reading. Meh :D

Edited January 21, 2014 by UAlreadyLost

[Noabettiet]

I seriously feel like the "buff" that valkyr had was rather.. an huge offense.  They've gave her the ability to regenerate health based on how many are killed with hysteria. (for which by itself is already annoying to use hysteria).

 

Oberon and Nekros are alright and i seriously consider them mid-tier.

[VKhaun]

Rhino has CC, Damage Buffs, AND is nowhere near squishy. Nova does the same, But does more damage.  Everything Ember can do, Almost every frame can do better. Accelerant will onIy effect HER power, since everybody else will be modded for elemental combos, not just fire. It's not negativity, its just the state of things. Facts. I feel the need to remind you that she is my second favorite frame, and im sitting somewhere around 35 Mil XP with her, so its not like i never play her. 

 

You're simply wrong.

 

At "high level" Rhino gets one shot killed like anyone else. Sure, he's technically tougher so you can draw an arbitrary line at some group of 5 waves where Ember dies in one hit but he takes TWO hits, but that's not really meaningful in the long run. Ten waves later they're both in the globe but only one of them can recast CC as needed while the other is limited by DPS/power in use.

Rhino is considered very strong, but he's an ineffective hybrid who gets locked into long cast animations and high power costs coming from a small power pool. Ember is considered weak and useless but she suffers none of his limitations and has a better power situation. The only thing Rhino has over her is defense which is eventually made meaningless within your own criteria. There's clearly something wrong with the perception here.

 

If you're talking "high level" and the team stacks fire mods the damage buff is very close to Nova and it applies a hard stun, casts faster, and fire mods take fewer mod slots than rainbow or multiple elements, which means everyone has more crit damage or more fire rate or bane mods, or some such source of additional DPS, rather than using those slots for elements that cap at 75% vs one resist at a time. More damage through higher bonus vs all surfaces, from fewer mods.

 

 

 

As we get more heat based weapons people will catch on and start using her, but she's already very very powerful just with fire mods.

Edited January 21, 2014 by VKhaun

[Nkomo-Sama]

you haven't experience valkyr at all in 25min+ don't cha. I got focus + blind rage and it does't scratch a piece. 

not blind rage good old rage turn health dmg into energy rage ... get hurt... hysteria... hulksmash...full health.... rinse repeat... 20 mins. Solo in

nuovo ceres high lvl survival....

[spacedkadet]

Disagree with loki as god tier, next tier down, also mag should be higher - go xini (or any corpus) take fleeting and spam shield polarise and pull - uber tier!

 

Other are situational such as nekros, if you plan to go long survival he becomes top tier. 

 

Tiering warframes is not straight forward due to filling a specific roll but there are some bad frames like ember/volt/banshee/saryn that are all poor consistently.

[RawGritz]

Oberon low tier? Does low tier mean virtually unstoppable?

 

i grew up in America so my English is poo. But i didn't think it was that bad.

 

Loki is pretty God like if used properly and modded well. To me, Radial Disarm is wildly underrated and far more useful than Ash's Bladestorm.

 

Your scaling seems to lean toward easy crowd control on a large scale and not player skill or versatility.