U12 Valkyr Changes Feedback

[ragdollomega]

No offence but do you know wat a berserker is? A berserker is not meant to tank damage while dealing damage its meant to rapidly kill before it takes damage or die, a berserker is high damage and mid to low armor to increase speed and dps, there is no way to justify this buff saying she can now tank damage better, how does a berserker have 3x the armor of both tank frames? Its the same broken logic with nyx and volt, volt is supposed to be the alternative to weapons yet he has regular energy pool while nyx has quite a lot more.

Wanna point out:

A) The other tank frames mentioned have considerably more shields that act as a buffer to health as well as one of them having an ability that increases this buffer further (the other kinda does too as long as you stay in the protective area and enemies aren't in it).

 

B) The class archetype that achieves what you are talking about while using melee weapons is called an assassin, not a Berserker.

[LordDoom01]

Paralysis has an interesting side effect, I've discovered. I haven't put it through it's full paces, but the enemies stunned by it can be sneak attacked while they recover from the ability.

[Monolake]

Ripline is another issue all together. I sometimes feel it was meant to be used with Hysteria in where you yank a big heavy mod towards you for you to finish off or to pull back an enemy that's running off. Yet that cost is insane for it's little funtionality. Sure it's 25 energy but look what I can do for 25 with Mag. The balance just doesn't appear to be there.

 

If maybe... Ripline ripped an opponent open with so much force that they explode, it be great! Or maybe it could pierce through multiple mobs and yank them all together. I'm sure there's plenty of ideas here on how to make Ripline more viable.

 

Warcry also has an issue in regards to cost. Sure it gives you an armor buff, melee speed buff, and enemy debuff yet that cost doesn't seem right. For one a melee speed buff seems pointless. With how fast we can swing now with some weapons+ fury mod. I can only imagine how fast you can swing now with this speed buff. That E key will never be the same. You probably couldn't even utilized the full speed and that's one of my concerns.

 

For a fix, I'd probably swap the melee speed buff for an melee attack buff instead. That makes more sense to me.

Ripline is more of a mobility tool and very good one at that. It does 600 dmg to 'rip' a lower level foe. 

I run the 'OP' max efficiency and Rage build on her so Im never out of energy, but for newer players who have neither Fleeting or Rage she has energy problems indeed with a low base pool of 150, I could never combo Warcry+Hysteria till I got all the mods.

 

You are wrong about Warcry, the speed buff is very beneficial because all the melee weapons are not that fast, even Dual Copters have 2.9/sec, Ichors are only 1.6/sec and Warcry gives only +50% or 65% with Focus. (Btw you probably want to bind melee attack to mouse if you play any melee character be it Valk or Loki)

[ragdollomega]

Really really want a damage bonus from damage-taken thing. The only problem is it becomes very important to have faster hitting weapons after a certain point where the cap is reached quickly.

 

I think this could be achievable if they changed the invulnerability so that Valkyr cannot drop below one health. With this, DE could put in some kind of damage increase based on missing health. Which could either be based on percent missing or maybe even based on every point of health missing, though most likely the former.

 

Paralysis is meant to be used while in Hysteria state I think, there is no ther point in it... And I agree it's far from being a must use (I don't).

 

I watched the stream today and didn't heard a single word on her. I missed a few minutes though, so they may have said something I've missed. Any clue for me or Rebecca ignored us ?

It can be used to allows a break from the damage from enemies within the radius of Paralysis. With its cheap cost, it can be used between melee attacks to stagger enemies so that it effectively slows how much damage Valkyr takes overall. Of course, this is most effective against infested and drops in usefulness against the other two factions. If DE would make this skill stun (actually stun, not this dumb stagger thing) her opponents for even 2 or 3 seconds longer then the current pitiable stagger, I think that would help immensely toward its CC capabilities.

[Drazhar14]

My issue is more the animations than the damage. Thankfully, they confirmed that it will be changed in the future. What do you guys think of these combos? 

[Cyrionn]

Well that would be ten thousand times better than the actual pattern, that's for sure. Though I think they can make even better, give us the feeling that we are actually going berserk, a real impression of tearing everything appart in a rain of blood.

 

Enuff said, time for some Slayer !

[Redlove108]

Ripline is more of a mobility tool and very good one at that. It does 600 dmg to 'rip' a lower level foe. 

I run the 'OP' max efficiency and Rage build on her so Im never out of energy, but for newer players who have neither Fleeting or Rage she has energy problems indeed with a low base pool of 150, I could never combo Warcry+Hysteria till I got all the mods.

 

Even if it had a low energy pull it's too time consuming for me to stop and cast it. I can just run around shotgunning enemies and taking down 2 a second at times than spend the few seconds using Ripline to finish off one mob. As a mobility skill it's still not that helpful because it's pull is slow and she seems to let go early at least for me.

 

The other problem I had with it was also targeting a mob and yanking them. There are times that my aiming cursor is not exactly on point and I miss the mob and pull myself over. Like if I aim and instead the cursor went between the legs or between the arms I'll pull myself over. Or if the enemy duck, I'll miss and pull myself over. So this makes it trouble some for me to use in combat.

 

There are also not many places for you to Ripline yourself to and why would you? Unless it's to bring you closer to combat I don't see the point of it. Getting up on a high perch to snipe or get away safety all go against what Valkyr is; a melee beserker. As for a life saver it's pretty slow and I don't think we get invincibility frames while casting it either.

 

You are wrong about Warcry, the speed buff is very beneficial because all the melee weapons are not that fast, even Dual Copters have 2.9/sec, Ichors are only 1.6/sec and Warcry gives only +50% or 65% with Focus. (Btw you probably want to bind melee attack to mouse if you play any melee character be it Valk or Loki)

 

I don't know, I feel that a damage boost would be better than a melee speed boost over all. Also where would you bind your shooting button if you bind the melee attack to the mouse?

 

 

 

It can be used to allows a break from the damage from enemies within the radius of Paralysis. With its cheap cost, it can be used between melee attacks to stagger enemies so that it effectively slows how much damage Valkyr takes overall. Of course, this is most effective against infested and drops in usefulness against the other two factions. If DE would make this skill stun (actually stun, not this dumb stagger thing) her opponents for even 2 or 3 seconds longer then the current pitiable stagger, I think that would help immensely toward its CC capabilities.

 

 

That is the issue I run into as well. Paralysis isn't good against the other two factions. It's even more troublesome because when you cast it you stop to do the animation. If I could keep running while casting it then it wouldn't be much better! I could just run around spamming it if I felt like. Or just go with your suggestion could be helpful too.

 

Any kind of improvement would be better.

[PsycloneM]

My issue is more the animations than the damage. Thankfully, they confirmed that it will be changed in the future. What do you guys think of these combos? 

 

I completely agree with you. I left a lengthy post in the art and animation feedback forum outlining my problems with the animation set, along with possible solutions.

 

As for the video, that would be a great improvement over what we currently have. I'm curious, when was it confirmed that Hysteria would receive new animations?

Edited February 8, 2014 by PsycloneM

[CephalonShy]

Short version: Still boring on regual missions, still bad on endless missions.

 

Please, PLEASE let us use our own melee during hysteria. Is it really THAT hard to program?

[Cyrionn]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/175122-february-7th-community-hot-topics/?p=2048815

Right here !

 

Just read your post, may they get inspiration in there !

[ReptileZA]

Please DE Read this and fix Valkyr!

[Bibliothekar]

Also where would you bind your shooting button if you bind the melee attack to the mouse?

Well, most mice I've seen so far have more than just one button. So LMB: shoot, RMB: melee, MB4/5/... or E: zoom.

[Monolake]

My issue is more the animations than the damage. Thankfully, they confirmed that it will be changed in the future. What do you guys think of these combos? 

 

They hit bunch of enemies at once and actually have great feedback both visual and on enemies throwing them away and KOing so they are 10 times better than Valks. I personally love the fluid  fighting system in Darksiders2 which is rather simple but light years ahead of WF melee combat. Sad thing is Hysteria is worse than normal melee for how it works and feels. The only fun you can have under it is doing ground slam+ finisher. 

 

PS: with all the testing Im about to have Valk as my most played lol, though I rarely bring her to normal missions.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Monolake

[SanguineXIII]

I don't get what the hell was going through Scott's head on the Hysteria change.  It's, confounding.  It's a warframe power, it should have nothing to do with your equipped weapon. The damn power is her ult.  A power that, sure, makes you invincible for 30 seconds, but at the cost of equipping you with entirely worthless claws that literally do nothing to enemies beyond about level 35.

 

Why can we not just shorten the duration, and make the claws do massive amounts of damage?  Seriously, that's all this ult needs. Get rid of the leeching on it, get rid of this stupid "inheriting melee weapon stats" idea, and just make the damn power do a ton of damage and have a shorter duration.  It would still be a very unique and fun to use power given that it's one of only a few ult powers in the game that's not just an elaborate fart that kills everything around you.

 

Also, I'm firmly in the corner of Warcry taking the leech buff from current hysteria in place of the armor buff it has. The leech is far more beneficial across the board to all frames from any armor category, especially after melee 2.0 makes melee viable and fun again (hopefully). This would make Valkyr way more valuable to a team, whereas currently she has no team value except as an emergency reviver.

 

TL;DR:

 

Hysteria:  Significantly buff up the base damage of the claws and put back the innate 50%/200% Critical/Crit Damage, remove the leeching strikes (to be placed instead on warcry), and shorten the duration of the power (15 seconds base at most).  It would also be great to see a charge attack added to the claws, and have their down attack, slide attack etc... all dealing consistently high damage with the rest of the attacks.

 

Warcry: Replace the team armor rating buff with team melee leeching strikes buff.

[Cyrionn]

Hysteria:  Significantly buff up the base damage of the claws and put back the innate 50%/200% Critical/Crit Damage, remove the leeching strikes (to be placed instead on warcry), and shorten the duration of the power (15 seconds base at most).  It would also be great to see a charge attack added to the claws, and have their down attack, slide attack etc... all dealing consistently high damage with the rest of the attacks.

 

Warcry: Replace the team armor rating buff with team melee leeching strikes buff.

Sounds like what we need. :3

And I kinda like the idea of team lifestealing buff with upcomming melee 2.0 Valkyr would finally have a tool that makes her usefull for her team without competing with Trinity's or Oberon's supporting ability. Actually a duo Oberon/Valkyr would make a very nice alternative to Trinity's godmode.

 

Someone please make this topic sticky, actually most of it makes so much sense.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Been trying to use Valkyr with dedicated melee damage weapons like Ichors and Dakra Prime as well, and I'm inclined to agree that this isn't working as intended. (It's also concerning to me that new players don't have access to all these melee weapons/forma and will probably be doing significantly less damage with Hysteria, which is probably much more frustrating to them!)

 

My 2 cents : Have Hysteria give Valkyr claws that deal 300 damage (equally split between Impact + Puncture + Slash) and add the base weapon damage/crit/etc... on top of that. I'd be fine with any damage/crit buff to Hysteria, honestly, but I feel this would be a good start since it gives newer players the base 300 damage and vets the ability to mod out their weapons to get the most out of the skill.

[PsycloneM]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/175122-february-7th-community-hot-topics/?p=2048815

Right here !

 

Just read your post, may they get inspiration in there !

 

Ah, thanks for sharing. Well, that's excellent news! An animation makeover is definitely needed, so I'm glad that's on the agenda.

 

My 2 cents : Have Hysteria give Valkyr claws that deal 300 damage (equally split between Impact + Puncture + Slash) and add the base weapon damage/crit/etc... on top of that. I'd be fine with any damage/crit buff to Hysteria, honestly, but I feel this would be a good start since it gives newer players the base 300 damage and vets the ability to mod out their weapons to get the most out of the skill.

 

That's what Hysteria currently does. Here's how the damage is calculated. The old 1.75x multiplier that was used directly on Hysteria's base damage is now applied to your weapon's base damage.

 

I'm noticing people saying that the old Hysteria was more effective than the new one. In response to the original post, I used Hysteria last night with Dual Zoren, Focus, Steel Charge (+45%), and melee/critical damage mods. I was hitting for 4k+ critical damage against the Hyenas, and 2-3k critical damage against Grineer on Ceres (level 25-28). Even without Dual Ichor or Blind Rage, I can't say that I'm observing the current Hysteria dealing less damage than before.

 

To maximize your damage potential, you need to increase power strength, use Steel Charge, equip a melee weapon with high base damage and/or high critical damage, use Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike, and finally, use Organ Shatter.

 

For high critical damage: Dual Ichor, Dual Cleavers, Dual Zoren, Furax, Obex, Kogake, Ankyros, Plasma Sword

 

For high base damage: Jat Kitteg, Orthos Prime, Dakra Prime, Scoliac, Fragor, Ether Reaper, Magistar, Hate, Reaper Prime, Scindo

 

The first few weapons on either list are your best options (3x critical damage and 55-80 base damage).

 

In the comparison that I made here, it is possible to inflict more damage than the old Hysteria assuming you are using the appropriate weapon and mods. However, I can understand the frustration in needing to use a specific weapon and specific mod layout in order for this to work. Even then, it's not a massive improvement over the original.

 

So with U12, your melee weapon's normal attack damage and critical damage are applied to Hysteria. Should melee weapons receive a damage buff across the board (Melee 2.0), this will indirectly increase Hysteria's damage. Should any melee weapon be released in the future with high base damage and/or high critical damage, that would be another weapon to add to the list. Should there be any new mods that increase melee/critical damage further, that's more damage for Hysteria. 

 

Given our small selection of effective weapons for Hysteria, I would say to wait and see what Melee 2.0 has in store for us. If all melee weapons receive a damage buff according to Geoff, that may provide us with more options along with a higher-damage Hysteria.

Edited February 8, 2014 by PsycloneM

[Cyrionn]

Well like you said, being limited to few weapons to get a bit more damages than before isn't what she needs to be played, not at all.

 

And about Orthos Prime or other high base damage weapons read the first post, I have played Valkyr a lot with maxed Blind Rage and Focus before U12 and then tried after U12 with my four forma Orthos Prime and overall the damage was lower than it used to be.

 

No truly, I don't see the point in Hysteria affected by your melee weapon except giving her one more handicap compared to other warframes.

[Garuger]

 

Ah, thanks for sharing. Well, that's excellent news! An animation makeover is definitely needed, so I'm glad that's on the agenda.

 

 

That's what Hysteria currently does. Here's how the damage is calculated. The old 1.75x multiplier that was used directly on Hysteria's base damage is now applied to your weapon's base damage.

 

I'm noticing people saying that the old Hysteria was more effective than the new one. In response to the original post, I used Hysteria last night with Dual Zoren, Focus, Steel Charge (+45%), and melee/critical damage mods. I was hitting for 4k+ critical damage against the Hyenas, and 2-3k critical damage against Grineer on Ceres (level 25-28). Even without Dual Ichor or Blind Rage, I can't say that I'm observing the current Hysteria dealing less damage than before.

 

To maximize your damage potential, you need to increase power strength, use Steel Charge, equip a melee weapon with high base damage and/or high critical damage, use Pressure Point and Spoiled Strike, and finally, use Organ Shatter.

 

For high critical damage: Dual Ichor, Dual Cleavers, Dual Zoren, Furax, Obex, Kogake, Ankyros, Plasma Sword

 

For high base damage: Jat Kitteg, Orthos Prime, Dakra Prime, Scoliac, Fragor, Ether Reaper, Magistar, Hate, Reaper Prime, Scindo

 

The first few weapons on either list are your best options (3x critical damage and 55-80 base damage).

 

In the comparison that I made here, it is possible to inflict more damage than the old Hysteria assuming you are using the appropriate weapon and mods. However, I can understand the frustration in needing to use a specific weapon and specific mod layout in order for this to work. Even then, it's not a massive improvement over the original.

 

So with U12, your melee weapon's normal attack damage and critical damage are applied to Hysteria. Should melee weapons receive a damage buff across the board (Melee 2.0), this will indirectly increase Hysteria's damage. Should any melee weapon be released in the future with high base damage and/or high critical damage, that would be another weapon to add to the list. Should there be any new mods that increase melee/critical damage further, that's more damage for Hysteria. 

 

Given our small selection of effective weapons for Hysteria, I would say to wait and see what Melee 2.0 has in store for us. If all melee weapons receive a damage buff according to Geoff, that may provide us with more options along with a higher-damage Hysteria.

This is the most effective build i found for Valkyr to have as a melee (cleavers are not mandatory it just has to be a crit weapon)

Also what if Hysteria inherit all those mods you know speed , element , damage , crit etc 

Edited February 8, 2014 by Garuger

[Toom1275]

One thing that really needs to be fixed is the whole floaty-crap that she does whenever she attacks. I mainly use her against the Corpus, but while in Hysteria mode, about 2/3 of my attacks hit air because while Valkyr's floating off into the sunset, the crewmen can dodge simply by slowing walking in a circle around her. I turned off the auto-aim to nearest enemy option since camera-tracking is generally superior, but it doesn't help if she keeps swinging off a combo in some direction OTHER than where I'm actually aiming her. I also wouldn't mind getting a holdable charge attack like the Ichors have. Or any kind of charge attack in the first place.

[PsycloneM]

And about Orthos Prime or other high base damage weapons read the first post, I have played Valkyr a lot with maxed Blind Rage and Focus before U12 and then tried after U12 with my four forma Orthos Prime and overall the damage was lower than it used to be.

 

No truly, I don't see the point in Hysteria affected by your melee weapon except giving her one more handicap compared to other warframes.

 

Hysteria being affected by melee weapons is what people were asking for in the feedback thread. However, we didn't expect Hysteria to be affected by your melee weapon to the point of requiring a select group of weapons and mods in order for it to function similarly or slightly better than before.

 

Part of the problem is one, Hysteria does not factor in elemental damage, Smite, or any other type of damage mod other than those that boost the base normal attack damage. I'll go over an example shortly. Second, most melee weapons have relatively low base damage. As Melee 2.0 is supposed to provide a damage boost for all melee weapons, this might solve part of the issue. As an example:

 

Take your Orthos Prime. You have +40% damage from Steel Charge and +1.29% power strength. The old Hysteria with your set up would inflict:

 

100 x 1.75 x 2.29 x 1.18 x 3 = 1419 damage before resistances (2837 / 5675 damage criticals).

 

 

The current Hysteria with your Orthos Prime would inflict:

 

3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 60 x ( 1.4 + 2.2 ) ] = 1166 damage before resistances (3322 / 6644 damage criticals). 

 

 

So now you deal less damage per strike, but your critical damage is slightly higher. This is the frustration that I totally understand. Now, let's assume that with Melee 2.0 Orthos Prime deals 100 base damage from 60:

 

3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 100 x ( 1.4 + 2.2 ) ] = 1743 damage before resistances (4967 / 9933 damage criticals).

 

 

Of course, I really don't know how much of a boost the melee weapons will receive. In this example, however, you wouldn't need to resort to a high critical damage weapon in order to inflict higher damage than before. This is why I suggest we wait and see exactly how much damage our melee weapons gain from Melee 2.0. If it's still insufficient, there are still plenty of options. The 1.75x factor could be modified to 2.5x, for instance. Hysteria's base 300 damage could be increased, or elemental damage could be taken into account, or any combination of the above.

 

 

Also what if Hysteria inherit all those mods you know speed , element , damage , crit etc 

 

If Hysteria inherited elemental damage, I would assume that similarly to extra damage from Pressure Point or Spoiled Strike, Steel Charge would not affect it. Here's what that would look like with your Dual Cleavers (assuming max power strength and Steel Charge):

 

3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 25 x ( 1.55 + 2.2 + 1.5 ) ] = 822 damage before resistances (4686 / 9372 damage criticals). 

 

 

Compare that to Dual Cleavers without elemental damage:

 

3 x [ 100 + ( 1.75 / 3 ) x 2.29 x 25 x ( 1.55 + 2.2 ) ] = 671 damage before resistances (3825 / 7649 damage criticals).

 

 

Let's just see where Melee 2.0 takes us. If the damage is still undesirable, or if there's still a limited number of weapons that work effectively with Hysteria, I still think it's possible to tweak the damage formula without completely reworking the power.

Edited February 9, 2014 by PsycloneM

[Takai]

Here is a fun bug I want them to keep in the game and build upon further:

 

Press the number #3 Skill in CQC range of a enemy and watch them stagger (make sure they arent in a knockdown animation or state); and low and behold, a stealth attack que pops up... and you can run behind and stealth attack animation the enemy or do it from the front; dealing major damage.

 

This can be done in Hysteria or in normal states.

 

What would be rad is if this animation tore the enemy in twine or decapitated them.

 

That brings me to a new point:

- Claws imply penetrating and cutting correct? How come Valk's claws are not slash damage? If they were slash, you would tear enemies to bits; which would be really brutal! (im not a sick person I swear)

 

As far as U12 updates:

- With a max armor mod card, you can finally (FINALLY!) survive and thrive in lvl 30  situations

- The weapon scale to the Hysteria can be helpful, it makes sense but should be slash proc and damage type. 

- Paralysis with the stealth attack animation window, is freaking  awesome, keep it, dont care if it was intentional or a bug.

[Wynn]

Maybe it's just me but I've always use her with Obex, that crap fist weapon that no one uses but is amazing once you start using it with Ripline. Ripline counts as being on a wall for the Obex base 1000 damage wall punch.

 

Its so hard to say what she needs right now with a new melee system coming in around of next month.

[Cyrionn]

Well I am totally agaisnt melee weapon affecting Hysteria, as I said before this would be the only frame you wouldn't use to rank up your melee weapon meaning another handicap to Valkyr and to her Hysteria.

 

As far as I know, there are few other abilities affected by the weapons you use : Antimatter Drop, Energy Shield, Contagion and Sonar. And the comparison ends here, there is a clear difference in cost, effectiveness and even scaling for each of them. And their efficiency/utility is a base added to the weapon, not the other way around meaning you don't have to mod the weapon in order to make the ability scale more but the ability makes your weapon damage scaling. And none of them are "ultimate" or the core ability of the frame, Sonar excepted but...truly nothing more that's similar to Hysteria.

 

And as I said earlier, newcommers can't manage to get such builds in their early game while Jupiter is low tier planet making Valkyr easily craftable. they will just end up using Valkyr with their Cronus, or even if they bought Dual Zoren or Cleaver, their Hysteria is gonna deal really poor damage. I'm too lazy to use your formula for such a case, but the numbers must be quite ridiculous.

At those low levels, pressing 4 is a high cost in energy so it must have a strong effect. Mag's Crush, Rhino's Stomp, Oberon's Reckoning or Ember's WoF even Excal Radial Javelin have in comparison way more effectiveness as those frames are also easy to get or are starter ones.

 

And whatever the changes they will give to melee weapons, the formula itself limits her to critical builds for a maximum efficiency. That's not what hurts the most but it's a restriction added to a warframe that truly doesn't need it.

 

Edit : Mea Culpa, completely forgot about Molecular prime when speaking about abilities. Actually this one is the center of Nova's gameplay but...well do I have to say anything more ?

Edited February 9, 2014 by Cyrionn

[Redlove108]

Just to remark on the animations and why they need fixing. The Corrupted Corpus had figured out Valkyr's weakness with me the other day. Not only did the guy run in circles and ran away from me BUT he went and crouched behind cover. I could not hit him!

 

 

Crouch! Valkyr's only weakness! D: