Why The Lack Of Health Orbs?

[Highchu]

Ever since update 12, I've been noticing myself and others taking alot more damage to our health from bleeding DoTs, and enemy Lifestealing. There has always been a serious lack of Health Orb drops throughout maps so unless you have a Nekros/Oberon (which you rarely ever see) or use the "Rejuvenation" aura theres really no way to regenerate health. Before I never really noticed it as an issue, but now its really becoming a problem for high level progression especially with Frost's "Snow Globe" receiving such a major nerf.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Highchu

[Paradoxbomb]

Yeah, it's something I don't understand, DE wants to make health more viable by giving us 600+ armor or giving us frames who can generate health orbs, but the problem is that the health system is just pitiful at it's core. Health orbs only restore 25 health, which is nothing past level 10, and you're lucky to find two per loot room. Having frames that can heal you is nice, but that requires that you either always play one, have one of your friends play one all the time, or just get paired up with one. Not to mention Oberon and Nekros mainly rely on generating health orbs which, again, 25 health. Health Kits are worthless too. Team restores take forever, require you to stand perfectly still, and you have to use a bunch to get a meaningful amount of health back. We have full health restores now, but these require scanning Circero event plants so they should only take forever to make.

 

It's simple, just make health orbs restore a percentage of health instead of a flat value (maybe 15%-25%) and make enemies drop them like energy so health isn't non-existent but at the same time healer frames aren't overshadowed.

 

[DuWryght]

I've noticed the lack of health orbs a long time ago. I think if anything they should give you a short term hp regen b/c there is nothing like have carrier on  and you get hit with a bleed proc. It is at this point that health orbs are plentiful b/c ever tick, carrier nabs it for you.... only for you to get killed by something a bit more significant.  At least with regen it would protect you better against bleed proc along with providing some level of protection. I think they should restore something percentage based. Maybe 10 or 15%. It will be less (of course) for lower hps, but they will have a getter effect with more hp. 400 hp is staple amount of hp to work around for all frames in at least mid tier content. 25hp won't cut it at that point, but 60 might just keep you in the fight.

 

I want them to be a godsend when found, but not an easy victory when found. Maybe they can heal the 10~15% over time. Or maybe, just have frames gain more hp from orbs as they rank up.

[Nagisawa]

Because people want the game to be 'harder'.

[Oktalz]

Ever since update 12, I've been noticing myself and others taking alot more damage to our health from bleeding DoTs, and enemy Lifestealing. There has always been a serious lack of Health Orb drops throughout maps so unless you have a Nekros/Oberon (which you rarely ever see) or use the "Rejuvenation" aura theres really no way to regenerate health. Before I never really noticed it as an issue, but now its really becoming a problem for high level progression especially with Frost's "Snow Globe" receiving such a major nerf.

 did void t3 def until enemies were lv 70+ last night without a frost no problem and no nekros or oberon.... I see no issues here.

 

edit: 3 man on top of it all.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Oktalz

[Oktalz]

Yeah, it's something I don't understand, DE wants to make health more viable by giving us 600+ armor or giving us frames who can generate health orbs, but the problem is that the health system is just pitiful at it's core. Health orbs only restore 25 health, which is nothing past level 10, and you're lucky to find two per loot room. Having frames that can heal you is nice, but that requires that you either always play one, have one of your friends play one all the time, or just get paired up with one. Not to mention Oberon and Nekros mainly rely on generating health orbs which, again, 25 health. Health Kits are worthless too. Team restores take forever, require you to stand perfectly still, and you have to use a bunch to get a meaningful amount of health back. We have full health restores now, but these require scanning Circero event plants so they should only take forever to make.

 

It's simple, just make health orbs restore a percentage of health instead of a flat value (maybe 15%-25%) and make enemies drop them like energy so health isn't non-existent but at the same time healer frames aren't overshadowed.

 

first off... none of what you say is true, second of all, rejuv aura, physique aura, equilibrium mod, rage mod and quick thinking work great together, sentinel mods like sacrifice and guardian go a long way... how much more survivability do you need exactly? please think a little before you post.

[Rettycombine]

first off... none of what you say is true, second of all, rejuv aura, physique aura, equilibrium mod, rage mod and quick thinking work great together, sentinel mods like sacrifice and guardian go a long way... how much more survivability do you need exactly? please think a little before you post.

Please stop thinking that every player in the game is a MLG pro who has every rare mod and were lucky enough to to get the transmutation mods before they were removed, and having enough cores to max the mods so that they can reach any degree of usefulness.

[Oktalz]

Please stop thinking that every player in the game is a MLG pro who has every rare mod and were lucky enough to to get the transmutation mods before they were removed, and having enough cores to max the mods so that they can reach any degree of usefulness.

 

equilibrium is not removed neither are any of the mods mentioned, what are you on about? and what´s this random MLG talk about and being pro? We are discussing PVE issues here, are we not?

[SnaleKing]

equilibrium is not removed neither are any of the mods mentioned, what are you on about? and what´s this random MLG talk about and being pro? We are discussing PVE issues here, are we not?

 

He's saying just because it isn't hard for really good players with really good frames and mods, doesn't mean it shouldn't be made easier for others.

 

I'm inclined to agree. New players are much more likely to get driven away from a ridiculously hard game, than longtime players are to walk away from an easier game.

[Nagisawa]

I'm inclined to agree. New players are much more likely to get driven away from a ridiculously hard game, than longtime players are to walk away from an easier game.

They'll *@##$ and moan about it, but they'll still play it.

[Makemap]

They'll $#*(@ and moan about it, but they'll still play it.

Why do you think there are so much complaint? We have nightmare mode for a reason. DE should fix up nightmare mode if the players actually want hard. Nightmare mode should give more chance to finding good mods and Tier 3 stuff. Which I suggest all defense, survival ,etc should have a seperate drop table on nightmare lvls and start with uncommon. Such mods like Fever strike, etc.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Makemap

[Highchu]

first off... none of what you say is true, second of all, rejuv aura, physique aura, equilibrium mod, rage mod and quick thinking work great together, sentinel mods like sacrifice and guardian go a long way... how much more survivability do you need exactly? please think a little before you post.

Hey all I'm asking for is having a few more Health Orb drops throughout a level. While auras mods like "Rejuvenation" can get the job done it really isn't reliable with its 10 sec cooldown and "Physique" gives such a minor health boost its not even worth it on its own. Combos like Rage/Quick Thinking I agree can be very good on some frames, but its not suited on everything. Same for "Equilibrium" its very situational. Energy pickups will help solve the problem of minor health loss, but there are so few health orb drops that you wouldn't be getting much energy without a (Nekros/Oberon) to help out. Forcing players to use particular mods in order to have any way of healing themselves just doesn't seem right. Just because its possible to do without them doesn't mean we shouldn't have any other choice. Edited February 8, 2014 by Highchu

[Oktalz]

He's saying just because it isn't hard for really good players with really good frames and mods, doesn't mean it shouldn't be made easier for others.

 

I'm inclined to agree. New players are much more likely to get driven away from a ridiculously hard game, than longtime players are to walk away from an easier game.

 

Path Of Exile says HI and it´s complicated diverse and unforgiving yet it´s won Game of The Year awards in several places.... nuff said.

[Oktalz]

Forcing players to use particular mods in order to have any way of healing themselves just doesn't seem right. Just because its possible to do without them doesn't mean we shouldn't have any other choice.

 This logic... lol... then I suppose forcing you us to use Serration in order to scale in DPS is a poor mechanic too.. this whole game is about mods, you are making no sense I´m sorry to say. Rather you contradict yourself ALOT.

[Nagisawa]

Path Of Exile says HI and it´s complicated diverse and unforgiving yet it´s won Game of The Year awards in several places.... nuff said.

All that says is that Nostalgia is king, and that gamers HATE, HATE, HATE change of any sort.  They want to kill their favourite game, pin it a wall like a butterfly in a collection, and admire it, complaining how nothing will ever match the 'perfection', blind to it's flaws.

 

Massive Damage difficulty it does not make.  Path of Exile is a heavily flawed game, because people want it to be 'hardcore', but they don't understand what makes a game 'skill based'.  In Path of Exile, there is NO SKILL INVOLVED.  NONE, ZERO.  ZILCH.  Unlike Warframe, Path of Exile doesn't have any defensive mechanic.  If you're melee, the only thing you can do is face tank, walk up to the enemies and take the hits.  No dodge, no block.  You walk straight in and soak it.  And hope your gear is both strong enough to take it, and strong enough to destroy your enemies.  Ranged has a better chance, but that's because they can kill things before they can come close enough to hit.

 

Diablo 2, and it's clones (of which there are several) is about loot.  Nothing more.  You get better loot to take on the bigger challenges.  All based on a rather unforgiving RNG mechanic. That's what makes it 'hard', because it's all based on luck, from the Materia, er, Skill Gems, to the weapons and armour, to the slots inside the armament.  All random chance.  No skill involved.

 

Warframe has a lot more mobility, and some, admittedly anemic, defensive options at the moment, but DE wants to increase it.  So by default, Warframe is more skill based.

 

Please do not bring up Path of Exile, I like the game (Hell, I backed it at the $30 level because I wanted the soundtrack, even though I'm poor), but it's a terrible, misguided comparison, especially since you're not sure what 'hardcore' truly means.

[Nagisawa]

 This logic... lol... then I suppose forcing you us to use Serration in order to scale in DPS is a poor mechanic too.. this whole game is about mods, you are making no sense I´m sorry to say. Rather you contradict yourself ALOT.

Actually, Serration IS A POOR MECHANIC.  It's based on LUCK, and CHANCE, and I can tell you, my cousin cannot play very far because they haven't gotten a Hornet Strike or a Serration after ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY HOURS OF GAMEPLAY.

 

So yes, SERRATION IS TERRIBLE as it stands right now.

[Oktalz]

All that says is that Nostalgia is king, and that gamers HATE, HATE, HATE change of any sort.  They want to kill their favourite game, pin it a wall like a butterfly in a collection, and admire it, complaining how nothing will ever match the 'perfection', blind to it's flaws.

 

Massive Damage difficulty it does not make.  Path of Exile is a heavily flawed game, because people want it to be 'hardcore', but they don't understand what makes a game 'skill based'.  In Path of Exile, there is NO SKILL INVOLVED.  NONE, ZERO.  ZILCH.  Unlike Warframe, Path of Exile doesn't have any defensive mechanic.  If you're melee, the only thing you can do is face tank, walk up to the enemies and take the hits.  No dodge, no block.  You walk straight in and soak it.  And hope your gear is both strong enough to take it, and strong enough to destroy your enemies.  Ranged has a better chance, but that's because they can kill things before they can come close enough to hit.

 

Diablo 2, and it's clones (of which there are several) is about loot.  Nothing more.  You get better loot to take on the bigger challenges.  All based on a rather unforgiving RNG mechanic. That's what makes it 'hard', because it's all based on luck, from the Materia, er, Skill Gems, to the weapons and armour, to the slots inside the armament.  All random chance.  No skill involved.

 

Warframe has a lot more mobility, and some, admittedly anemic, defensive options at the moment, but DE wants to increase it.  So by default, Warframe is more skill based.

 

Please do not bring up Path of Exile, I like the game (Hell, I backed it at the $30 level because I wanted the soundtrack, even though I'm poor), but it's a terrible, misguided comparison, especially since you're not sure what 'hardcore' truly means.

 

TL:DR = stop lying.

 

Clearly you know nothing about PoE, so many false claims here that it is just baffling. Please if you want someone to take you seriously while lying you might want to actually have some credible lies that walk the line between truth and falsehood. Blurting out transparent lies gets you nowhere.

 

There are plenty of defensive capabilites in PoE, there is plenty of skill involved and the game doesn´t play itself for you as you make it sound. The "facetank" comment is the best part in this whole heap of lies. I will not get into why you are wrong and how resistances and builds come into play as I already see that such explanations would be lost on you.

 

EDIT: It´s RNG and clearly your Cousine is killing the wrong enemies cause Serration is quite frequent. Again stop talking about things you know nothing about.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Oktalz

[Nagisawa]

TL:DR = stop lying.

 

Clearly you know nothing about PoE, so many false claims here that it is just baffling. Please if you want someone to take you seriously while lying you might want to actually have some credible lies that walk the line between truth and falsehood. Blurting out transparent lies gets you nowhere.

 

There are plenty of defensive capabilites in PoE, there is plenty of skill involved and the game doesn´t play itself for you as you make it sound. The "facetank" comment is the best part in this whole heap of lies. I will not get into why you are wrong and how resistances and builds come into play as I already see that such explanations would be lost on you.

 

EDIT: It´s RNG and clearly your Cousine is killing the wrong enemies cause Serration is quite frequent. Again stop talking about things you know nothing about.

Nothing about PoE.  I was in the closed beta.  Patch 8 or was it 9, I believe where the balance was decent,  Then they changed and suddenly melee became garbage.  Because the mechanical way that armour worked.  The harder (the bigger the number) the less damage you stopped.  Meaning you need hammers and staves to be used for Melee, because of two Gems.  Ground Slam, with as many range boosters as you could get, or Lightning Strike again, with as many range boosters as possible.  Simply because Merciless level Hillock was impossible to pass with Leap Slam, or anything that made you face tank.  Because PoE armour mitagation math was broken by design.  They fixed it last year, but they still have a lot of issues.  They actually had the Grineer Torch issue, where a beam attack would melt you down in seconds because of the constant damage, but unlike Warframe, PoE has no active dodge mechanic.  And cover doesn't really exist there.

 

Just because you're seemingly blinded by the the fact that PoE resembles Diablo 2 on the surface, and you miss that game terribly, does not mean that PoE is a great game.  It still needs a LOT of work.  I hear they still haven't finished the End Game, past those random Maps, which is also subject to RNG, or did they fix that?

 

I'm sorry, but you clearly have no experience in PoE until they released it free to play.

 

And until recently, Serration dropped off Grineer BALLISTA, we're taking Update 10, to 11.5. One of the STILL rarest mobs in the Grineer arsenal.  Not to mention that I watched my cousin LAST NIGHT, and they faced quite a few Grineer Scorpions (not as many as troopers and lancers, or butchers for that matter) on an exterminate map (We have to share my rig, unfortunately, otherwise we'd be duo'ing the entire game) I didn't see any mods drop, except a Fusion and a couple of others (I think it was Melee Prowess, kinda useless at the moment) from the Grineer Troopers, after an HOUR of playing various maps (I went off after watching the first game, doesn't need me breathing down their neck.)  Three mods in about 2 hours of heavy gaming,

 

I think they have a couple of Point Blanks, but doesn't want to use shotguns.

 

So no, you're the one who clearly have no idea what you're talking about, hence I will stop replying to you.

[Oktalz]

Nothing about PoE.  I was in the closed beta.  Patch 8 or was it 9, I believe where the balance was decent,  Then they changed and suddenly melee became garbage.  Because the mechanical way that armour worked.  The harder (the bigger the number) the less damage you stopped.  Meaning you need hammers and staves to be used for Melee, because of two Gems.  Ground Slam, with as many range boosters as you could get, or Lightning Strike again, with as many range boosters as possible.  Simply because Merciless level Hillock was impossible to pass with Leap Slam, or anything that made you face tank.  Because PoE armour mitagation math was broken by design.  They fixed it last year, but they still have a lot of issues.  They actually had the Grineer Torch issue, where a beam attack would melt you down in seconds because of the constant damage, but unlike Warframe, PoE has no active dodge mechanic.  And cover doesn't really exist there.

 

Just because you're seemingly blinded by the the fact that PoE resembles Diablo 2 on the surface, and you miss that game terribly, does not mean that PoE is a great game.  It still needs a LOT of work.  I hear they still haven't finished the End Game, past those random Maps, which is also subject to RNG, or did they fix that?

 

I'm sorry, but you clearly have no experience in PoE until they released it free to play.

 

And until recently, Serration dropped off Grineer BALLISTA, we're taking Update 10, to 11.5. One of the STILL rarest mobs in the Grineer arsenal.  Not to mention that I watched my cousin LAST NIGHT, and they faced quite a few Grineer Scorpions (not as many as troopers and lancers, or butchers for that matter) on an exterminate map (We have to share my rig, unfortunately, otherwise we'd be duo'ing the entire game) I didn't see any mods drop, except a Fusion and a couple of others (I think it was Melee Prowess, kinda useless at the moment) from the Grineer Troopers, after an HOUR of playing various maps (I went off after watching the first game, doesn't need me breathing down their neck.)  Three mods in about 2 hours of heavy gaming,

 

I think they have a couple of Point Blanks, but doesn't want to use shotguns.

 

So no, you're the one who clearly have no idea what you're talking about, hence I will stop replying to you.

 

I was in closed beta by application in PoE and I played after it went Free to Play also and your assumptions as to what I have done and what I know do not substantiate your false claims any more than your contradictions first claiming facetanking is possible and then explaining that you had to use leap slam because it doesn´t work. You got more holes in your comments than swisscheese.

 

Furthermore there is cover in terms of terrain and if you use the map cleverly it works just fine as cover, also skills are not lock ons which means if you keep moving "orbwalking" you can shoot ranged abilities and use skills while moving. Yet again you don´t know how to use the games mechanics or the terrain to your advantage and so you blame the game for being bad. PoE is much easier now that it was before because of whine from people who can´t do the little extra to become better and rather ask for nerfs to damage and so on. Sure PoE had it shares of bugs and so do most games P2P and F2P alike but this is normal and does not make your claims valid. Bugs are to be worked and fixed thanks to the community and their feedback, however whining because you fight a high firedamage mob with no resistances in PoE and dying all the time is not feedback much like not being able to roll, slide, move out of damage and modding properly is not feedback to the low amount of health orbs that warframe has. It´s just being lazy and not wanting to do that little bit extra to get better at the game. Claiming high end content is much harder now that Frost got nerfed is also false and much else that I consider crying on these forums.

 

I get at least a few serrations every day or every other day while playing warframe and you only need one because once you have it fusion cores does the rest to level it up. So yeah you don´t have to reply cause yet another time I will punch holes in your claims as I have done thus far.

 

You want everything served on a platter and if your cousine cant find a serration mod, why don´t you trade him one when you find it? Why doesn´t he ask for a trade? Unmodded seration for Void keys which he probably has. Deals can be made. You need any more proof as to how hollow your logic is?

 

With all due respect, think before you speak. 

[Vargras]

equilibrium is not removed neither are any of the mods mentioned, what are you on about? and what´s this random MLG talk about and being pro? We are discussing PVE issues here, are we not?

Sacrifice was removed and was only available for a limited time.

 

[Oktalz]

Sacrifice was removed and was only available for a limited time.

 

even if it was it is not the most crucial mod to make you able to play the game and even manage higher content, but yeah it may have been removed and might come back. Like with Natural Talent. Still doesn´t change the fact of what we are talking about here.

[NeroUmbra]

Path Of Exile says HI and it´s complicated diverse and unforgiving yet it´s won Game of The Year awards in several places.... nuff said.

 

I like what PoE did with the increasing difficulties.  Mobs get tougher and do more damage AND the player's resistances drop on each progressive playthru. 

 

Note please there is no hard cap on the player's power either, they can continue to get stronger and stronger weapons and armor to compensate for the increased difficulty.  Warframe doesn't have anything that can directly match that mechanic.  Yet.

[Methanoid]

Ever since update 12, I've been noticing myself and others taking alot more damage to our health from bleeding DoTs, and enemy Lifestealing. There has always been a serious lack of Health Orb drops throughout maps so unless you have a Nekros/Oberon (which you rarely ever see) or use the "Rejuvenation" aura theres really no way to regenerate health. Before I never really noticed it as an issue, but now its really becoming a problem for high level progression especially with Frost's "Snow Globe" receiving such a major nerf.

 

its likely entirely to give oberon, nekros and to a lesser degree the equilibrium mod a fitting role to play, if theres rarely any nekros/oberon players around then thats just down to player preference, basically ppl wanting pew pew over utlility, which is also why u see even less trinity players than you do oberon/nekros.

[Nagisawa]

I like what PoE did with the increasing difficulties.  Mobs get tougher and do more damage AND the player's resistances drop on each progressive playthru. 

 

Note please there is no hard cap on the player's power either, they can continue to get stronger and stronger weapons and armor to compensate for the increased difficulty.  Warframe doesn't have anything that can directly match that mechanic.  Yet.

They took that from Diablo 2.  In fact a lot of the basic mechanics are from Diablo 2.  But past that, it's not really comparable, nor should it.  It's a completely different style of game.

[ScorpDK]

I would agree with having mobs drop red orbs; currently the only way to find them is RNG on lockers/containers and possibly in survival one can drop from the life support. I personally run most frames with Equilibrium (tho I have to yet rank it up fully, I only get like 12 Health from a Blue Orb) which is far from ideal for higher-difficulty areas...

 

Still waiting for (a) mod(s) that gives weapons lifesteal and energy-leech. Sacrifice damage output in favor of survivability.