Why Do You Nerf Weapons

[Awazx]

Just like most people that play at a high level we need weapons that we can play with, I'm just tired of having to leave a game because my weapon can't do damage anymore what a waste. Good example is the ACRID You work so hard to get it by ranking up and getting resources then its a bust. That make all the effort a waste when a guy at rank 2 can buy a better weapon.

You're right. The game has very few truly viable weapons. But in this forum, everyone will say 'get the SOMA' and with that we solved everything.

[VScipii26]

A lot of very successful games build themselves entirely around "power creep" aka progression. And for good reason.

Progression =/= power creep.

Progression is when one thing is a step up. EG Bronze>Iron>Steel>Whatever fantasy element your game is using>And so on.

Power creep is not found very often when a game has good progression.

Power creep is a bad thing. It is when a new *anything* comes out that is a truly better than all it's predecessors. It creates the need for the next thing to be better than that, turning into a vicious cycle where you end up attacking for 10m damage a swing, but enemies have 4.2b hp to compensate.

[Sixty5]

OP just is impossible in a PVE game dude, because enemies come in hordes , mob after mob after mob , endless mobs !! we need things to mass murder, the only balance you want is because that other guy kills more than you do other wise it makes no sense at all. Prove me wrong.

How many pictures of me outscoring people With top tier setups do you want?

Maybe I should show how my stats stack up?

Or you could just take my word that I can do well with just about anything.

[Mastikator2]

could be nice if it did but that might be difficult to implent

Best build is contextual, varies on the mission, and your other weapons and frame. It's impossible for a computer to predict with so little information.

[ThePresident777]

How many pictures of me outscoring people With top tier setups do you want?

Maybe I should show how my stats stack up?

Or you could just take my word that I can do well with just about anything.

 

This is a coop game.

[ThePresident777]

And I can guarantee you that having a challenging run that you have to work for is much more satisfying.

Like running a t3 defense mission without any of th. A-grade frames, or weapons like the soma, Ogris and penta.

 

All the enemy is going to do is rush you anyway.  I'd rather just blow them up.  It's funny to me.

Edited February 10, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Tr1ples1xer]

How many pictures of me outscoring people With top tier setups do you want?

Maybe I should show how my stats stack up?

Or you could just take my word that I can do well with just about anything.

Like I said you have no reason to cry OP ! PROVE ME WRONG.

 

and btw Dying =/= fun, I hate dying its frutrating, I wanna have fun, in this game you need to repeat the same missions over and over, i'd be fine with a challenging mission once in a while but all the time ? i'd be pissed and quit. I wanna have fun and chill and kill a thousand baddies.

[Hayden_10-O]

Powercreep.


The game.

[IamSalva]

Just like most people that play at a high level we need weapons that we can play with, I'm just tired of having to leave a game because my weapon can't do damage anymore what a waste. Good example is the ACRID You work so hard to get it by ranking up and getting resources then its a bust. That make all the effort a waste when a guy at rank 2 can buy a better weapon.

 

Acrid is the ONLY Weapon that was nerfed so hard that its not viable anymore. In turn they made nearly all other weapons viable...

[nobucketrequired]

Balancing is necessary to keep a game interesting (or if this was a competitive game to keep it fair). However doing so should be done with care and in small increments while also trying to keep the strengths that weapon/ability had that made it useful/interesting.

 

e.g. My Lady Gorgon was destroyed by its creators. it once was a beautiful gun that when fired semi-auto it was most accurate and you could still hold down the trigger to lay down the thunder. Now its just another gun you spray everywhere with.

Edited February 10, 2014 by BACON4BREAKFAST

[theussr]

bwahah, nerds, I am way more excellenct and executing the $&*&*#(%& AI minions better than you. though there is no incentive to actualyl kill the enemies at all this is important to me as a matter of tenno honor

[kubbi]

Lol acrid. I rarely used it since damage 2.0. But its still showing as my most used weapon.

[ThePresident777]

Balancing is necessary to keep a game interesting (or if this was a competitive game to keep it fair). However doing so should be done with care and in small increments while also trying to keep the strengths that weapon/ability had that made it useful/interesting.

 

e.g. My Lady Gorgon was destroyed by its creators. it once was a beautiful gun that when fired semi-auto it was most accurate and you could still hold down the trigger to lay down the thunder. Now its just another gun you spray everywhere with.

 

The AI is too stupid.  It needs to get smarter without cheating.  You could kill hordes with a spork they are so dumb.  So, the weapons are not the problem.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Noble_Cactus]

Powercreep.

The game.

 

Pokemon.

 

And now, Warframe.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Any weapon can be made OP with mods. 

 

I don't really cry over nerfs or for it, as I see people use it for flame and troll baiters.

 

You shouldn't have much of a problem with nerfed weapons most of the time.

 

I am sure Soma would do just fine, in that note, Supra needs a major buff.

 

Bo. Go run T3 Void with the Bo, and tell me that it's OP with proper modding. Or Aklato. Or any weapon DE has just left to rot (it's quite the list, especially if you include melee weapons, which I'm not convinced Melee 2.0 will fix).

[LazyKnight]

So if DE released a gun That did 10k base sustained DPS, you'd be happy to leave it as is?

Because by saying NO NERFZ!!!1!1! that is what you are implying.

Blatantly OP stuff breaks the game.

Something could have 10k base DPS if it only had 5 max ammo with just as rare ammo pick-ups. Example, FatMan in fallout 3: It had overwhelming power, strongest weapon in game, yet there was a finite amount of ammo. 

Edited February 10, 2014 by LazyKnight

[(PSN)VayMathias]

I have more of an issue with them changing stats given how this game treats plat.

 

They should consider something like a "set in stone" marker for items, items that they intend to never change, and if they do, you get your plat back, and if it doesn't have the marker, then you purchase at your own risk, maybe even make the marker items slightly more expensive than the would be or the marker-less slightly less than they would be.

[phetaduck]

I just wish if there was a way to make every weapon really powerful like Soma or Synapse. Of course, let it require a lot of effort and time and resources, lets say like three times more then get and bring Soma or Synapse to fullpower. That way Soma will still be great, new players will still have to progress and be better with just Soma or whatever and people's favorite guns will be viable for endgame.

Edited February 10, 2014 by phetaduck

[Monolake]

Bo. Go run T3 Void with the Bo, and tell me that it's OP with proper modding. Or Aklato. Or any weapon DE has just left to rot (it's quite the list, especially if you include melee weapons, which I'm not convinced Melee 2.0 will fix).

 

I could solo T3 ext with AkLato no problem (if I still had it). Doable with Bo as well.

Thing is those are cheap early game weapons that can carry you up to level 30 with good mods (AkLato is really decent, Bo is meh but still). In order to have game progress and power increase, early game gear has to be worse than the mid and late game gear.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Monolake

[123Olympian]

Bo. Go run T3 Void with the Bo, and tell me that it's OP with proper modding. Or Aklato. Or any weapon DE has just left to rot (it's quite the list, especially if you include melee weapons, which I'm not convinced Melee 2.0 will fix).

Something called power creep, why do you think they nerf?

 

Only due to whining and PC (power creep.

[gallowsCalibrator]

Some small level of power creep isn't the end of the world. It's lots of power creep that causes major problems.

 

I think of it kind of like inflation: without a small level of inflation, money isn't going to lose value if you just hold on to it. Without something you want to spend it on, you can just hold on to the money and let it stagnate, not moving it through the economy.

 

Without some level of more powerful weapons, there's no reason to really get them unless you want them. You can just sit on your existing weapons for all eternity and do just as well.

 

High inflation causes problems, though, and so does high power creep. High inflation makes it hard to maintain value and can end up wreaking havoc with the economy (as it did in postwar Germany), and high power creep makes weapons obsolete too quickly, causing the mindset of "wait for the next one, it'll be better."

 

In Team Fortress 2, unlockable weapons are almost entirely sidegrades and the balance is pretty good.

 

Thing is, I ended up using the default sniper rifle (or a reskin of it) several times more often than any of the other ones, because there just wasn't really any reason for me to use them. Since they weren't really any better than the default one, I could just use that and not care at all about the new weapons Valve was adding. Same thing happened with my soldier, default rockets and default shotgun, though I equipped the Equalizer because it was a straight upgrade to the regular shovel before they nerfed it. Switched to the Escape Plan when they split it.

 

Since Warframe isn't a PvP game and balance thus isn't the most important consideration, having some weapons be better than others doesn't really bother me.

 

Considering that we're not calling this game Hatframe yet, I'd say it's pretty reasonable to expect some power creep over time.

 

All that said, however, I'm not against nerfs in general. I'm just a little annoyed at the constant usage of the phrase "power creep" on the forums to discourage discussion.

Edited February 11, 2014 by gallowsCalibrator

[IamSalva]

I just wish if there was a way to make every weapon really powerful like Soma or Synapse. Of course, let it require a lot of effort and time and resources, lets say like three times more then get and bring Soma or Synapse to fullpower. That way Soma will still be great, new players will still have to progress and be better with just Soma or whatever and people's favorite guns will be viable for endgame.

 

What Weapon is NOT viable with 4-7 Forma in it? (yeah, some melee but only viable melee is Zoren or Scoliac cause they can Copter)

 

I did a 1:30 Survival with my 5x Forma Grakata, a Clanmate did 2h with his 5x Forma Karak, thats 2 Mastery 0 Weapons that can kill even "after Endegame".. i don´t know  any weapon that you can´t use if you put enough forma in it, at least normal stuff like T3 Def or T3 Ext. should be really no Problem at all for any weapon in this game...

[phetaduck]

What Weapon is NOT viable with 4-7 Forma in it? (yeah, some melee but only viable melee is Zoren or Scoliac cause they can Copter)

 

I did a 1:30 Survival with my 5x Forma Grakata, a Clanmate did 2h with his 5x Forma Karak, thats 2 Mastery 0 Weapons that can kill even "after Endegame".. i don´t know  any weapon that you can´t use if you put enough forma in it, at least normal stuff like T3 Def or T3 Ext. should be really no Problem at all for any weapon in this game...

Well, I formaed Gorgon six times.Without Heavy Caliber damage isn't there with Heavy Caliber it's hard to hit things (because accuracy is something about 7.2) and reload time is 4.2, that is why I constantly begging DE to duf Gorgon's accuracy and reload time. :)

Besides Karak and Grakata is awesome weapons by design. Grakata has high crit chance and huge status chance, decent accuracy and firerate. Karak has one of the highes damage amongst assault rifles pared with great accuracy and reload time. At the same time MK1 Braton won't be that good even with 8 formas. But MK-1 Braton is starter weapon. I know it won't happen but I just wish Gorgon has better accuracy and faster reload.

[IamSalva]

I don´t have a Gorgon, but i have a 6 Forma Supra, that, afaik, has even worse accuracy... still its one of the weapons i would take to very high levels.

 

Yes, perhapse Soma would be better and easier to handle and i really don´t get why DE does give Soma best Accuracy, biggest Magazine, Hitscan Bullets, fastest windup and best DPS... but that does not mean the other weapons are not viable if you like them and want to play them.

 

The best is the best, no questions, but the gap to the next best is not so big that you can´t do everything with the other weapons if you want to do it imho.