An Idea That Could Mitigate Ability Spamming

[Nosebleed]

I've thought of this while looking at a certain game's wiki.  What if Warframe incorporated an enemy unit(probably Corpus) that did not allow Warframe abilities to be used within a certain range?

 

In theory, this should help reduce ultimate spamming.  Of course, calculations have to be taken into account including power range mods and the powers themselves (Invisibility disrupted within the range of the unit and more)

 

Or perhaps as a part of a sabotage mission where players cannot use powers until the objective has been completed.

 

[CelsiusPrime]

ah, that game. I remember that game.

 

edit:

 

I feel like i actually need to add something about the topic.

 

I feel like ability spamming is the result of abilities being the most effective way to get rid of enemies. if we boosted weapon play and weapon damage and reduced energy so that abilities were more along the line of Dragon Shouts for those who played Skyrim instead of how they are now.

Edited February 19, 2014 by CelsiusPrime

[MagnumX]

they have something like this in the stalker and i believe Zanuka where they dispel your abilities and are more or less immune to their damage, this idea i don't' think would so much prevent ability spamming as it would just be an annoying thing that can just make them stop working at a time you need them, maybe that's a valid addition at some point for difficulty purposes but it would have almost no effect on spamming, it would be easier and more efficient to just add cool downs.

[RoboDoge]

Age of Mythology?

[Beas7ie]

they have something like this in the stalker and i believe Zanuka where they dispel your abilities and are more or less immune to their damage, this idea i don't' think would so much prevent ability spamming as it would just be an annoying thing that can just make them stop working at a time you need them, maybe that's a valid addition at some point for difficulty purposes but it would have almost no effect on spamming, it would be easier and more efficient to just add cool downs.

 

Those dispell and cancel abilities on Stalker and Zanuka piss me off.  It's more annoying and infuriating than challenging as here we are supposed to be these uber badass space ninja with these awesome abilities and Stalker and Zanuka come along and are all like "Lolololo your abilities no work on me"   

 

"Oh btw ally your buffs are dispelled because F*** you"

 

What needs to be done is to find a way to make situations where people can better use their abilities, not just add more and more limits and enemies that dispell/disable them.  I want cool fights with abilities like if I'm Excal vs Stalker let me actually be able to damage him with my slash dash.  Hell make something awesome where we can have a Slash Dash vs Slash Dash sort of like those anime Ninja/Samurai fights where the 2 guys run past each other, take one cut each and then after standing for a few seconds one of them falls down as his cut opens up while the other walks away badassfully. 

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Ability spamming is far from a problem, you do know that enemies don t cap at level 40 right?

 

From there on you're better off using your weapons.

 

In other words, go for high lv enemies, i dare you not to use your weapon.

[Axterix13]

I've thought of this while looking at a certain game's wiki.  What if Warframe incorporated an enemy unit(probably Corpus) that did not allow Warframe abilities to be used within a certain range?

It exists already.  The Disruptor Leaders, as well as the disrupting hyena, drain all your energy and drop your shields.  No energy = no powers.

 

Overall though, throwing such enemies in everywhere, with a decent sized radius would cause more problems than it solves.  Your glass canon type frames, for example, trade off base survivability in exchange for harder hitting powers.  If you strip them off their ability to use powers, then you remove the point of using them.  So you wind up with a situation where you either rarely use such mobs, in which case little changes, or you use them enough for them to matter, and you hose certain frames.

[CrimsonMOON]

the "ability spamming" is not a problem. If you have invested time and resources to acquire and fuse mods (blind rage/Fleeting) you should damn well be able to spam your best abilities. I for one would be pissed if they made this impossible. If they made the abilities more fun to use, and made the power scale (40+ enemies) then I would not have a problem. Outright nerfing all capability to spam reckoning, world on fire, or near perma hysteria is a big NO in my book.

[Rapxtor]

Ability spamming is far from a problem, you do know that enemies don t cap at level 40 right?

 

From there on you're better off using your weapons.

 

In other words, go for high lv enemies, i dare you not to use your weapon.

 

But thats exacly what is saying, the spammer dont go there and when it go bc couldnt extract earlier, it is always down bc rely on ability only and at that point only scratch, doesnt kill, so it is problem in lower levels.

 

Another thing is, have a look at the star chart mostly all the time, Mercury apollodorus - 12 to 14 & 5 to 7 games at night, Saturn Mimas - 10 to 12 & 5 to 7 at night, anything up is usually  2 to 4 & 0 to 1 at night, off couse im not counting with private games or clan games, but even so, very few go there in Pugs, and most that I find there ext before 15m, there are exepections, its like a good match in 5 tries, but its this most of the time.

[NoXHeart]

Why is ability spamming an issue? I fail to see any general problem it creates.

 

As previously stated, some frames rely on their abilities, its what makes them worth using. Take Nova and Vauban for instance, remove their abilities and what do you get? Two Very fragile frames that have nothing to offset their extreme lack of defense.

 

 

It takes two mods to achieve the energy efficiency to spam your strongest abilties, and even then you're left with a 50% duration penalty. Off the top of my head, only 2-3 frames can get away with said penalty without being noticeably affected by it, every other frame has to equip yet another two mods to negate that penalty.

 

In other words, lets not nerf caster type frames please.

[Chazman80]

How about no.

[Etsoree]

Omg Age of Mythology was awesome.

 

I really, really like this idea. It'd make people actually force them to learn how to use their guns rather than pressing a win button.

 

+1 OP, enjoy it.

 

Maybe move the thread to the ideas forums, someone? Anyone? This is gold.

[shut]

they have something like this in the stalker and i believe Zanuka where they dispel your abilities and are more or less immune to their damage, this idea i don't' think would so much prevent ability spamming as it would just be an annoying thing that can just make them stop working at a time you need them, maybe that's a valid addition at some point for difficulty purposes but it would have almost no effect on spamming, it would be easier and more efficient to just add cool downs.

Basically, this (minus the cooldown part; I abhorrently despise cooldowns in fast-paced games like this). Insta-Dispel is more of an annoyance than anything significant, and in Stalker's case, it's a means of artificial challenge that throws inter-frame balance out of whack entirely. (Basically, if you have an Ability activated, he will teleport, Dispel, and stunlock till you die. Frames such as Loki have absolutely nothing to defend themselves with, and anyone with an Ability active at the wrong time, especially users of Rhino and Shade, are generally insta-screwed unless they can out-DPS the Stalker.)

 

What I'd like to see is a new energy system of sorts. Instead of picking up RNG-based orbs to fuel your abilities, the bar required for special abilities should be charged up by actual gameplay-- dealing damage, taking damage, reviving teammates, performing maneuvers in combat, etc. Cooldowns have no place in a game such as this; while they accomplish the goal of preventing spamming, they distract the player from accomplishing objectives with their arbitrary timers and add nothing to gameplay.

Edited February 19, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Monolake]

Lets make a unit that would make every player mad!  Clearly Disruptors and energy-drain leaders are not enough!

[Nenjin]

I'd be ok with a new enemy that did this.

 

It'd:

 

-Add another tool in the enemy tool box.

-Force players to pay more attention to enemy types and reintroduce target priority. (Anyone remember when disruptors and toxics used to get focused fire'd because they could derail an entire group?)

-Force players to actually move and avoid some enemies beyond the ones that cause knock down.

-Force players to occasionally use more gameplay mechanics to solve problems than simply mashing a button.

 

A decent compromise might be just adding this to the list of "officer" enemy abilities. That way you don't end up surrounded by 8 of these guys at the 30 minute mark in Survival. It'd also be nice as an ability unique to enemies, instead of just duplicating existing WF powers.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Nenjin

[Feallike]

I'd be ok with a new enemy that did this.

 

It'd:

 

-Add another tool in the enemy tool box.

-Force players to pay more attention to enemy types and reintroduce target priority. (Anyone remember when disruptors and toxics used to get focused fire'd because they could derail an entire group?)

-Force players to actually move and avoid some enemies beyond the ones that cause knock down.

-Force players to occasionally use more gameplay mechanics to solve problems than simply mashing a button.

 

A decent compromise might be just adding this to the list of "officer" enemy abilities. That way you don't end up surrounded by 8 of these guys at the 30 minute mark in Survival. It'd also be nice as an ability unique to enemies, instead of just duplicating existing WF powers.

 

 

1. Thats more of a solution for high level missions, since you usually kill enemies before they have a chance in low level missions.

 

2. Adding enemies that are more or less Mini-bosses, They could either double regular enemies shields, hp, power, attacker power, and armor.

 

Or they could be bosses that you have beaten before that now have half hp and half damage. (mercury will probably just have heavy gunners as mini bosses)

 

3. I like the idea of adding more types of enemies that have debuffs,

 

4. Well since Stealth 1.0,  Melee 2.0, and Agility 2.0 are coming... That may be fixed.

[Feallike]

Why is ability spamming an issue? I fail to see any general problem it creates.

 

As previously stated, some frames rely on their abilities, its what makes them worth using. Take Nova and Vauban for instance, remove their abilities and what do you get? Two Very fragile frames that have nothing to offset their extreme lack of defense.

 

 

It takes two mods to achieve the energy efficiency to spam your strongest abilties, and even then you're left with a 50% duration penalty. Off the top of my head, only 2-3 frames can get away with said penalty without being noticeably affected by it, every other frame has to equip yet another two mods to negate that penalty.

 

In other words, lets not nerf caster type frames please.

 

Well people don't like it when players just use the tactic of PRESS 4 TO WIN! :D So they want the DE to put in a feature that forces those people to use strategy instead of just pressing 4.

To be honest if it was done correctly it could make the game have a whole new layer of strategy and teamwork. Done wrong... they would just annoy allot of people.

[LukeAura]

I would say it'd be a better system to reward not spamming ults than punishing those who like to spam them. 

[MixterFox]

Part of the problem is streamline and fleeting even with the penalty being able to cast your 4th ability for 25 point is stupid OP, when everyone in the party has energy siphon running you have no real down time. Low level just becomes push 4 to wind by the time we get to the next room you have the energy to push 4 again. Fleeting only really penalizes the frames that init the push 4 to clear the room cept for nova in 60+ content. I feel like energy efficiency should be be capped at 30-50%. that would make it more than spec power to win. Having it tied to damage dealt, received whatever could be good but then I wouldn't let it go past 30% efficiency and remove energy siphon, as AoE would make it far to easy to keep abilities going all the time. Or I suppose just making energy siphon cause the energy from damage effect in the first place would make prolly balance pretty well if it was only weapon damage not ability damage. So you can still clear the room with your ult but you wont have the power to do it again just like that.