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[DE]Rebecca

Hotfix 12.4.5

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My score froze on 486 and couldnt get anymore than that doing the Tethra missions yesterday T-T sob no gorgon wraith for me

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Good Frost change; makes having a max Steel Fiber fairly worth it to keep up that shield, though it kinda sucks you can't really increase Armor further than that.

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Oh god. Its like you don't get it do you? The LIGHTS DO NOT ADD TO THE GAME. SNOWGLOBE'S ISSUE ISN'T JUST ITS HP. And where the hell is the Avalanche rollback?

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Nice fixes , but frost changes are worst , now in missions continuity does nothing on snow globe because snow globe have "health"

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Wait you changed snow globe but couldnt add the CC back to avalanche? 

 

 

big disappoint 

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Frost Changes:

Using a combination of ideas from the community and discussions between dev, Frost’s Snowglobe has changed. The changes are:

- Snowglobe’s health is now affected by a Warframe’s Armor value.

- There is now a temporary invulnerability duration determined by the rank of a given Snowglobe Mod.

- Snowglobe’s health is increased by the amount of damage received in the “Invulnerability Duration” window.

The numerical details are as follows:

Unranked Snowglobe: Health = 1500 + Invulnerability Duration = 1 second

Rank 1 Snowglobe: Health = 2500 + Invulnerability Duration = 2 seconds

Rank 2 Snowglobe: Health = 3000 + Invulnerability Duration = 3 seconds

Rank 3 Snowglobe: Health = 3500 + Invulnerability Duration = 4 seconds

Snowglobe Health = Health + (Armor x 5)

These improvements are subject to change, let us know what you think!

Okay the Invulnerability time and getting extra health based on damage take during that period could work, and is a very interesting method.

Although really lets look at it in a number game. If the amount of incoming damage per second is not reduced, that just buys the Globe 4 more seconds of life. 8 seconds total. Depending on how much the damage per second against the Globe changes that could go up or down.

We'll see how it holds up in testing at higher levels of play. Although right away I can see that Power Efficient maximization > Duration. It will be better to drop bubbles that last at most 8 seconds and can be deployed cheaply. At high levels anyways. Doesn't really do much to get the Frost out from under his Bubble and to be anything but a Bubble Depressor.

=====

Uh... that Armor thing... so... 1995 extra bubble health off a Maxed Steel Fiber? Pass. Total and complete crap. I *@##$ed at you guys already for looking at Armor instead of a Damage Cap. Partly because Armor is just effective HP, which is what you have here. Only you did the math wrong.

Total Health = Incoming Damage * Damage Mitigation %

Total Health / Damage Mitigation % = Incoming Damage

Doing this math based on the a Max Bubble Health of 3500 and a Rank 10 Steel Fibber, this should be an extra 4639 Hit Points, 43% of that at 1995. So lets try that Armor Multiplier again at 7 or 8.

Snowglobe Health = Health + (Armor x 7)

or

Snowglobe Health = Health + (Armor x 8)

How about x8 since you're having to Burn a Mod Slot for barely any extra health. Not when Intensify and other power strength mods help all your other powers as well. And you need Effeincty to offset efficiency hit to power strength....

Snowglobe Health = (1+PowerStrenght%)*(Health + (Armor x 8))

That is what it should look like if Armor true was Applied.

Ya, armor... still a bad idea to use here. WTF is wrong with just capping incoming damage?

61% 5737

59% 5932

57% 6140

55% 6363

53% 6603

51% 6862

50% 7000

48% 7291

47% 7446

45% 7777

44% 7954

43% 8139

Edited by Brasten
  • Upvote 2

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Its easy to do your research, the very same page that has this hotfix info has a history you can look back at and yes there is the last event on that page. If Wednesday is update day and people come here every Wednesday for just that reason and instead of the wait being worth it, it turns out to be a little hotfix, after month after month of updates on that day, people will be shocked and a bit let down.

 

It is easy to act like a white knight here and shake your finger at the people who feel that DE has failed to do what they have done every other week since they started the weekly update plan, this was not us who are forcing them to follow a set course, it is their time table. Yes, I am let down, I will admit that, I don't think that the people who feel the same way I do are wrong in feeling let down. If DE would let us know much earlier than 10:30pm that they were only doing a hotfix instead of the usual update, we could have all not been waiting for something that never came.

 

DE has a clear history of not informing the player base and we the player base then get let down over things like this. It could be a probelm with a very simple solution, inform people and we can all be on the same page. If we think it is a week like every other week, we will think "hey Wednesday, its update day, more fun stuff to do on Warframe" DE can then tell us either here in the forums or a message online, that in fact it is not a normal Wednesday and its only a hotfix, we can then not wonder and hope for an update, just that simple.

Rebecca made an official post that stated this would not be a tenno reinforcement or anything. just the normal bug fixes and yada yada

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Oh god. Its like you don't get it do you? The LIGHTS DO NOT ADD TO THE GAME. SNOWGLOBE'S ISSUE ISN'T JUST ITS HP. And where the hell is the Avalanche rollback?

 

 

They should revert the change to broken light damage. Those were good anti rushing mechanics

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They should revert the change to broken light damage. Those were good anti rushing mechanics

 

Except that they didn't care if you were rushing or not, and could kill you in the room you spawned in. They also made you bring Redirection/Vitality/Vigor, which DE has already stated that they would never be mandatory in any build.

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Frost Changes:

 

Using a combination of ideas from the community and discussions between dev, Frost’s Snowglobe has changed. The changes are:

-  Snowglobe’s health is now affected by a Warframe’s Armor value.

- There is now a temporary invulnerability duration determined by the rank of a given Snowglobe Mod.

-  Snowglobe’s health is increased by the amount of damage received in the “Invulnerability Duration” window.

The numerical details are as follows:  

Unranked Snowglobe: Health = 1500 + Invulnerability Duration = 1 second

Rank 1 Snowglobe: Health = 2500 + Invulnerability Duration = 2 seconds

Rank 2 Snowglobe: Health = 3000 + Invulnerability Duration = 3 seconds

Rank 3 Snowglobe: Health = 3500 + Invulnerability Duration = 4 seconds

Snowglobe Health = Health + (Armor x 5)

These improvements are subject to change, let us know what you think!

 

I'm on the fence about making the armor boost additive rather than multiplicative (like normal armor). I suppose this avoids cases of non-linear armor-scaling creating diminishing returns on the effective health, which would be a huge boost... if adding a single max-rank Steel Fiber didn't have basically the same outcome on the Globe's effective health with either formula, with the given knowledge that's the only way to boost Armor short of 3 Valkyrs.

Except I can't even express an opinion on that, since we have no idea how it scales with Power Strength yet. If the armor multiplier is affected too, great; if not, it'll become a problem.

Also don't know if the invulnerability is affected by Power Duration.

 

Still has a time limit. Still no visual indicator for how high/low the Globe is on HP, unlike Iron Skin. Still only slows for the initial 5 meter radius.

Still no improvements whatsoever to Freeze's usability (bearing travel time, zero AoE AND a damage cap) or Ice Wave's utility (given all of his abilities are equally cost-efficient on the damage front, and it only provides a minor slow).

 

I'd concentrate on those areas: Give Freeze a splash CC (affected by Duration), Ice Wave a knockback (to get enemies out of Globe as needed), Snow Globe unlimited time (now that it can be invulnerable) and limited iterations to prevent spam.

Edited by Archwizard

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Frost - Snowglobe

 

For those that don't want to read that much (yea, I know, why should such people come to a forum?), the short version: I would like if Snowglobe was changed into some kind of Snowstorm with slow effect and high (about 80%?) ranged damage mitigation properties. It wouldn't stop the attacks, just weaken them - it shouldn't be too powerful then, even if it has no "life".

For those that have no problem reading, the following is a quotation from the original topic (click the arrow at the top-right if you are interested in the full article):

 

...

Frost


As my first ever built frame, Frost has a special place in my heart. After I got Frost Prime I've formad this guy so hard... well, the usual, only 1 skill slot, etc. I love this frame yet I was more than willing to trade 3 abilities for simple mods and never looked back. I'm only using Snowglobe. So here comes whining 2.0.

Time has passed, Frost got changed a bit. You can guess that as many others I am not fully satisfied with the results.

The original problem was that most of his abilities fell short compared to other frames' (actually pretty badly), which endorsed the use of his only truly useful ability (snowglobe) which was pretty overpowered, way more than bastille. Actually I've welcomed the "health" for the globe, even though it pretty much destroyed the only thing that kept Frost afloat thus crushed mine too.

 

The changes reflect the usual idea of "nukes", meaning a large amount of people cannot see further than the damage an ability causes. Hell, many would call Loki weak and bad and I can honestly say he is one of the Most fun frames to play and actually brutally effective in most situations. He is damn scary and can pretty much save the day. Without any direct damage skills, mind you.

Thus I would prefer Frost to be a CC frame, especially since freezing based powers are usually best for that. Anyways, here comes my "idea pack" of Frost:

 

First of all I would make it so all Freeze effects act like this:

- Freezing enemies render them immobile for duration.

- The effect can be prematurely broken by causing more damage than certain % of max. health in one hit. Depends on skill power but it is tiered like this: Fire/Physical/Blast, all other elements except Cold, Cold. Every tier needing double the % to break the state, cold cannot break it. For example fire, physical and blast needs to hit for 20% max. health to break it, others 40%, cold cannot break it.

- Enemies frozen have certain % debuff against physical and blast damage types. This is pure damage bonus againt them, not a decrease to resistances. Completely dependant on ability power. Fire element based attacks suffer half this effect in reverse (so 40% bonus to blast means 20% minus to fire as the encasing ice protects the target from the fire).

- If the duration is up, the enemies suffer "slow" effect for standard duration (like when Cold's status effect kicks in).

- If the effect is broken prematurely by damage, the target is knocked to the ground, those standing around him will suffer blast and/or impact damage from the shattering ice.

- If the effect is broken prematurely by damage, the damage is applied first (thus gains the whole bonus %), then the effect breaks. Even if the target dies, the ice shatters thus damaging those around.

- Bosses cannot be frozen but they are slowed to a complete halt at first and gradually "thaw out", preferably during half of the original time limit. The incoming damage debuff is applied to them as well, though the effect is halved since they are not completely frozen. I consider Stalker and kin bosses.

- Diminishing returns apply, repeated usage of this effect on the same enemy will yield decreased duration of effect.

This way it seems at least remotely logical and has tactical depth too (fire easily breaking the ice but having's it's effect weakened, cold not getting bonus but not breaking the effect at all, etc.).

1. Freeze
The new version was previously mentioned to work "like" Ember's fireball... I have rarely seen anyone using that, so I guess that's the similarity. Sorry for being sarcastic but I haven't found any change in this skill since before, just as "useful" as it was. You don't want to stop to freeze single enemies when you are fighting a group and since the bosses usually end up being bugged or at least invulnerable thanks to this baby, I wouldn't advise using it on them either. Good to stop one when you need to revive... a rather narrow field of expertise. Get into cover and you will never use it for that again.

So what I would do with it - endorsing the use of Frost as a CC frame:

- Range: 50m, 3m aoe on impact location, enemies further away from the center of this aoe suffer weaker effects (decreased duration of effect and only slow when too far away), latter affected by power range mods.

- No initial damage.

- Enemies in 3m aoe (affected by power range mods) are frozen in place for 5/7/9/11 seconds (affected by duration mods).
- Frozen targets suffer incoming damage buff as mentioned above, increasing every kind of physical and blast damage dealt to them by 25/50/75/100%, affected by power strength mods. Fire damage is weakened by half the amount, again, as mentioned above.

- Prematurely breaking frozen status damages (cold and impact damage, 20/40/60/80) and knocks down those in range (the same 3m aoe + power range mods).

- After frozen status dissipates (either normally or prematurely) enemies are affected by cold's status, slowing them for a standard duration (like in case of weapon Cold status effect).

 

2. Ice Wave
Ice Wave was never really a specifically good damaging power (only an adequate one that looked "cool") I believe it could too use some rework. Yes, it was presumably changed to apply cold status effect thus slow the enemies - before dmg2.0 it's cold damage did the same thing so we only took a step back. Well, still an improvement.
Currently Avalanche is simply outclassing it, energy/effect ratio is too different. So, my version:

- Ice spikes form on the ground, enemies hit by the growing shards get knocked to the ground and suffer 50/100/150/200 piercing damage.
- The spikes stay for a duration of 5 seconds (affected by power duration mods, but not by the rank of skill), like some kind of ice trap, any enemy getting too close to them gets damaged and slowed (cold status effect).
- The damage is 60/80/100/120 per every second the enemy spends in aoe (standing among/on the spikes), affected by power damage mods. The damage IS damage per sec, not damage over time, thus if duration get's higher (by Continuity for example), the overall damage goes up.

- The range seems fine as it is.

 

3. Snow Globe

I'm one of those that actually think that the nerfing of the Globe was a logial and acceptable step. No I don't like how it was nerfed but I admit I like it even this way more than how it was (I am mostly playing Frost, mind you). It was an invulnerable cover which you could shoot through effectively providing ranged immunity except railguns and explosions (latter is more of a bug or a simple miss in design, as it feels illogical if the other things are kept out). It made Frost into the "globeframe" with no skills whatsoever apart from Globe. It was a very narrow role and was pretty much outclassed in every other area. Though this has changed, it has changed in a wrong way. Frost still doesn't have anything that makes him a worthy choice in place of any other frame while he no longer has the globeframe role either. I know that balancing the globe is hard - but I believe that problem hails from the very design and idea of the snowglobe, thus I would like to forget that as it is.

 

Winterhail/Blizzard/Snowstorm

Description: Frost takes control of the surrounding moisture, forming it into a raging storm of razorsharp ice, hindering ranged attacks and damaging enemies that venture inside.

Frost creates a storm made of icy shrapnels, dealing cold and slash damage to those inside, while weakening ranged attacks passing into/through the globe.

Range: 5m, affected by power range mods.

Duration: 30s, affected by power duration mods.

Damage: 15/30/60/90 per second, half slash, half cold damage (thus the overall damage is way lower than Ember's FireBlast), affected by power strength mods.

Enemies are slowed by 40/50/60/70% (or 67% on top if that had any meaning to be 67 instead of plain 70%).

Damage mitigation from ranged attacks is 30/40/50/60%, affected by power strength mods (if not affected, then it needs to go way higher).

Would be nice if shots interacting with (entering/spawning within) the storm would have a chance to be stopped (rockets still explode). Preferably the same % as for damage mitigation. If the 2 effects together might seem too strong or complicated, I would choose the latter with 44/56/68/80% as probability chance to intercept a ranged attack.

 

This way we get a worthy T3 ability which is still way less illogical and "absolute defense" than the original Snow Globe while MUCH more useful than current one.

 

4. Avalanche

Avalanche itself is not a bad ability by nature it's just that we have seen the near-exact same ability on other frames, countless times. It's nothing creative, only a large aoe damage spell, like that of Saryn, Mag etc. - even Volt is different since his Overload hold the possibility of higher damage thanks to the objects around, and Rhino has his "aftereffect" of floating enemies, making his über a "small" bastille for the recently (or soon to be) deceased. In fact Avalanche is like a reverse version of Rhino's stomp, first stunning, then damaging. But pretty much that's all the difference.

 

Here comes the "I would do the following" part:

Make Avalanche into something like Molecular Prime, an ability not dealing damage by itself (for MP you have to start killing the enemies since the effect only deals aoe damage if affected enemy dies - after then though... well you have seen dominos, so you get the idea).

 

Description: Summons a treacherous landslide of ice that instantly freezes enemies in the vicinity rendering them immobile and highly vulnerable to incoming physical and cold damage.

Range: 15/18/22/25m, affected by power range mods.

Freeze duration: 7/10/13/16s (affected by power duration mods).

Otherwise same as in case of Freeze, detailed above.

...

 

Was mentioned before that a too complicated freeze effect might be a bad idea - so freeze effect:

- Stuns/immobilizes enemies.

- Enemies frozen suffer 20% higher incoming damage from any source.

- The effect can be removed before end of duration by dealing more single-hit damage to the frozen entity than 50% of it's max. health. The damage is applied before the effect dissipates, thus the extra incoming-damage debuff will affect it's amount properly.

 

Other parts

 

The other parts are promising - many issues seem to have found their way to your "plate". Still, I can't rest assured while I know that there might be nerfs lurking around the corner. You won't nerf more weapons, right? Right?

 

Seriously, the most important thing I would really love to see in patches is some kind of... I dunno, a ray of hope or whatnot that you are reforming the game a tad (or plan to do so), so the "challenging" fights are not delivered through high health enemies that cannot be hurt by our freshly nerfed weaponry. I'm scared to forma anything now.

 

If warframe powers deal too much damage that you have to make enemies more... healthy, make energy scarce or something. As it stands now, those that wish to venture further than the "usual" difficulty, are forced to forgo weaponry and rely on their warframe abilities to an extent which is simply inbalanced.

 

Sure, we are Tenno, we are the best because of our abilities - but currently most weapons are incapable of even the possibility to be formad so hard that they can hope to stand on par or at least close to the damage output of a single Nuke ability. I don't mean they have to be one-shot-everyone-dies kind of weapons but with such abilities being easily spammable, it feels weird to shoot a rank 50 grineer heavy gunner for minutes if my weapon is not Brakk or something heavily formad. And this is just T3 35 min or so.

 

By the way, any chance we might get a Brakk-Detron akimbo in the future? Oh, and Lower Resistance aura mods too...

 

That was an awful lot of "other parts".

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- Limited ability to post messages in trade chat to once every 2 minutes to reduce channel spamming.

 

 

 

This is what we need, thank you so much. I'm happy about that!

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Interesting change to Snowglobe, can't wait to try it out. Still iffy on the keeping the eye stinging light flashes at all but I'll give them one more chance.

 

Nice patch so far, otherwise.

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Hey DE I've got a bit of a question in regards to Frost's updated snow globe. We know that at least previously power strength effected the strength of the globe. Can you confirm whether the HP added from Frost's armor gets modified by power strength?

TLDR;. Is snowglobe health formula based on A or is it B?

A.HP= Power Strength(RankedHP+5ArmorValue) or B. Hp=(Powerstrength*RankedHp)+5ArmorValue

  • Upvote 1

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- Fixed clients being able to repeatedly hack Moa Cabinets to produce a flash mob of ally bipeds.

 

:(

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- Fixed clients being able to repeatedly hack Moa Cabinets to produce a flash mob of ally bipeds.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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twitter.com/yuikami/media

Edited by dethkittin
  • Upvote 1

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