Members Dropping Like Flies

[KnorrSoup]

"Members dropping like flies"

 

 

...riiiiiiight. (It was in the top 10 earlier today as well).

 

That aside, there are glaring endgame issues that will *hopefully* be fixed by what we're seeing in the livestreams. Until then, all we can do is wait.

 

 

[Yousho]

It makes me sad that Garry's Mod is still a thing, being that it's creator is a scumbag of no equal. 

[Wiegraf]

It makes me sad that Garry's Mod is still a thing, being that it's creator is a scumbag of no equal. 

 

People are likely not playing base Garry's Mod but a mod that uses Garry's Mod, like Trouble in Terrorist Town, the Hidden or any of those wacky modifications people come up with.

[Grimgrip]

"Members dropping like flies"

 

-Snip-

 

...riiiiiiight. (It was in the top 10 earlier today as well).

 

That aside, there are glaring endgame issues that will *hopefully* be fixed by what we're seeing in the livestreams. Until then, all we can do is wait.

 

Member peak during the event before Tethra was around 16. Member peak at Tethra was around 13k, at most.

No one wants to see this game die but DE really needs to step it up. :/

[Wolfstorm18]

One thing that annoys me is that DE seems to focus too much in balancing the weapons, thus leading to unneeded, unwelcomed nerfs, and powercreepy buffs. This emphasis in balancing is spending time that would be used to create more tilesets and enhance the current tilesets, to create new enemies, game modes and storyline. 

 

The core game is resolved already. Theres only melee 2.0, but after that, DE need to focus in releasing environments, tilesets and enemy diversity, and stop to appease the nerfers who come to the foruns only to cry about frame x or y which is 'overpowered'. Let the weapons and frames be unbalanced as they are, and invest time in enhancing the infested which are boring enemies. Let the nerfers cry about their sores, and invest time in putting more rooms to the void where you can find an special corrupted boss double the size of a heavy gunner and which can drop Forma bps and prime parts when killed. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by Wolfstorm18

[-CdG-Revo]

Something REALLY big has to happen for warframe to return to its former glory

[(PSN)thegothicwitch]

On every day wish I had more hours to play

[ThePresident777]

I don't think Warbros leaving is a herald of death for the game. The impression I got was that, as a clan, they gave heart and soul to Warframe and felt it wasn't reciprocated by DE.  Besides, being top Clan in every event has to take it out of them pretty fast.  That's a lot of hard work.

 

Kind of sad I never got the chance to run with any of them. 

 

This is the first time I've heard about Warbros leaving.  But, the way you phrase it, it sounds like their expectations were not met.  This sounds like me eventually hating ME3 MP.  I'm talking about the combination of Burnout and unmet expectations.  In my case it produced backlash.  Perhaps this is an indication that burnout followed by backlash is inherent in Warframe.  So, maybe DE should address the burnout and the way they deal with the expectations.

[MagPrime]

This is the first time I've heard about Warbros leaving.  But, the way you phrase it, it sounds like their expectations were not met.  This sounds like me eventually hating ME3 MP.  I'm talking about the combination of Burnout and unmet expectations.  In my case it produced backlash.  Perhaps this is an indication that burnout followed by backlash is inherent in Warframe.  So, maybe DE should address the burnout and the way they deal with the expectations.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/198394-clan-warbros-announces-withdrawal-from-game/?hl=warbros

[ThePresident777]

One thing that annoys me is that DE seems to focus too much in balancing the weapons, thus leading to unneeded, unwelcomed nerfs, and powercreepy buffs. This emphasis in balancing is spending time that would be used to create more tilesets and enhance the current tilesets, to create new enemies, game modes and storyline. 

 

The core game is resolved already. Theres only melee 2.0, but after that, DE need to focus in releasing environments, tilesets and enemy diversity, and stop to appease the nerfers who come to the foruns only to cry about frame x or y which is 'overpowered'. Let the weapons and frames be unbalanced as they are, and invest time in enhancing the infested which are boring enemies. Let the nerfers cry about their sores, and invest time in putting more rooms to the void where you can find an special corrupted boss double the size of a heavy gunner and which can drop Forma bps and prime parts when killed. 

 

I've been saying this for months!!!!!

 

DE should look at the player's motivations and make missiosn to suit such motivations.  Right now, it seems like they have no method for creating missions.  You can't go wrong by focusing on the customers and taking them as your guidance, if you can understand what they are really saying.

Edited March 20, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DJ_Redwire]

The core game is resolved already. Theres only melee 2.0, but after that, DE need to focus in releasing environments, tilesets and enemy diversity, and stop to appease the nerfers who come to the foruns only to cry about frame x or y which is 'overpowered'.

 

Let me say first that I agree with the point you're making, but just want to correct one other aspect. For your example of melee 2.0 and releasing environments, tilesets, enemy diversity, ect. Those are different teams working of different things. The tileset team and the melee 2.0 team and the nerf/buff team are different groups of people, and therefore working on different things simultaneously. So in truth, they're working on all those other aspects you listed already. It just takes time.

 

For instance, the Shipyards are being worked on by the tileset team currently to be implemented in the game, along with making Dojo enhancements and various other projects.

 

On the other side of the office, the animation team and a few other groups are hard at work putting melee 2.0 together. (Also, as far as enemy diversity is concerned, melee 2.0 will be bringing a bunch of new melee enemies into the mix)

 

And on the other side of the office the sound and art teams are working on a new variety of music and sounds for things like melee 2.0, and designing new enemies and weapons.

 

And finally, the buff/nerf team is culling through player feedback to make balance changes.

Edited March 20, 2014 by DJ_Redwire

[Phantasmo]

I've been saying this for months!!!!!

 

DE should look at the player's motivations and make missiosn to suit such motivations.  Right now, it seems like they have no method for creating missions.  You can't go wrong by focusing on the customers and taking them as your guidance, if you can understand what they are really saying.

 

If weapons and warframes are not balanced then the game is not just boring but frustrating. No matter how many enemies, missions, tile sets etc you throw. If your mate is cleaning the room with a single click even before you get there, you will leave the game.

 

Balance is critical.

 

The problem is DE knows how to create awesome worlds, landscapes, cool looking weapons and characters etc etc but have absolutely no idea how to create balanced gameplay. Not to say a deep balanced experience.

 

Worse yet is the QA process. They just don't test their own product.

 

Issues like those stupid traps. How comes nobody realized players were not going to like them? Players falling out of the map? I've fallen out of the map more times in three months in Warframe than in all my gaming career, which spans over some decades.

 

I've known DE since the PC port of Homefront. It was awful, and they have not changed their ways in the slightest.

 

Those of you who are expecting some kind of miracle: wait no more. These guys are not Relic, they aren't Creative Assembly, they aren't Bungie, they are not id  (what id used to be anyway).

[ThePresident777]

And finally, the buff/nerf team is culling through player feedback to make balance changes.

 

Yeah, if history is any indicator, all the wrong decisions.  Nerf/Buffs are a sign that the game is not designed, just slapped together.  The winning approach is to understand the customer and make a product that addresses their desires.  Cramming mutually exclusive points of view in one sand box and endless nerf/buff cycles is a failure.  Nerfing outliers because whinners said is a failure.  Nerfing peope's fun is a failure.  But all that is how the video gaming industry commonly operates, no design, just slap S#&$ together, and appease nerfers.

[DJ_Redwire]

Yeah, if history is any indicator, all the wrong decisions.  Nerf/Buffs are a sign that the game is not designed, just slapped together.  The winning approach is to understand the customer and make a product that addresses their desires.  Cramming mutually exclusive points of view in one sand box and endless nerf/buff cycles is a failure.  Nerfing outliers because whinners said is a failure.  Nerfing peope's fun is a failure.  But all that is how the video gaming industry commonly operates, no design, just slap S#&$ together, and appease nerfers.

 

Dude, clam down - I said I agreed with you on this. You're preaching to the choir.

[(PSN)edwinp426]

I would have to say the reason most people get bored with new content is because the game's story line hasn't been developed to its full potential even though the game has been out for more than 1 year now. People need a reason to dedicate countless hours into a game, a sense of purpose.A game's story line is its essence, it's life force if you will. Sure, new content is always nice but it only keeps people distracted for so long before they get bored. Furthermore, the drop tables really add to a player's boredom with their ridiculous drop rates which require players to spend hours upon hours of the same old grind.

[Phantasmo]

A proffesional writer might help them make a coherent, solid lore.

[ThePresident777]

If weapons and warframes are not balanced then the game is not just boring but frustrating. No matter how many enemies, missions, tile sets etc you throw. If your mate is cleaning the room with a single click even before you get there, you will leave the game.

 

Balance is critical.

 

The problem is DE knows how to create awesome worlds, landscapes, cool looking weapons and characters etc etc but have absolutely no idea how to create balanced gameplay. Not to say a deep balanced experience.

 

Worse yet is the QA process. They just don't test their own product.

 

Issues like those stupid traps. How comes nobody realized players were not going to like them? Players falling out of the map? I've fallen out of the map more times in three months in Warframe than in all my gaming career, which spans over some decades.

 

I've known DE since the PC port of Homefront. It was awful, and they have not changed their ways in the slightest.

 

Those of you who are expecting some kind of miracle: wait no more. These guys are not Relic, they aren't Creative Assembly, they aren't Bungie, they are not id  (what id used to be anyway).

 

There are people having fun with out balance.  They are not frustrated.

 

If balance were critical then Warframe would have never had success, and that goes for a lot of other games.  Most games are unbalanced, regardless of how successful they are.  So, no, balance is not critical.  Only fun is critical.

 

The reason why DE is not creating satisfactory game play is because they are not reading the customer, finding out what they truly want, then creating the mechanism to satisfy that want.  They're just throwing stuff together, blindly, and taking things from other games.  And, people like you are not encouraging them to understand and focus on the customer.  You're encouraging them to focus on nebulous concepts like "balance".

 

Let me guess what you mean by balance:  make all the DPS outliers like the DPS mean.  That is a blind dogmatic point of view that totally ignores the customer for the sake of some idea.  The smarter approach is to adjust the various DPS to the DPS that FEELS comfortable to the customer. not blindly favor the median DPS.  What players feel is TTK.  DE needs to find TTK values that FEEL comfortable to players and set the DPSs to conform to a comfortable TTK, in a sensible manner because not all ammunition is created equally.

 

Balancing to the median is just dumb, and a complete lack of design.  Warframe is a video game, played by people for fun, for satisfaction.  If you don't design for customer satisfaction then you're not a video game designer.  You're just a hack.

[Loveshack]

The introduction of Survival missions was the high point of this game for me.

Almost everything DE has done since then has detracted from my experience.

I would still be happily doing infested survival missions on the normal starmap - but they took that out and after awhile I bolted.  I don't play.  I'm still interested in the game and I will check out the new infested maps when they come out.  If they are as fun as the old infested survivals, I'll be back.

Warframe has a lot of great core gameplay features - the survival map basically focused these features to the most entertaining level I've seen so far (lots of guys to kill, scaling enemies, consistent rewards, MOVEMENT focused gameplay - most of the frames can shine at certain stages of a survival mission).

 

I love how you can load up and complete missions with random people quickly and easily - this doesn't hold true for derelicts OR invasions (because people bolt asap on invasion survival T_T).

Warframe needs to focus and develop its strengths, not remove enjoyable content or ad stumbling blocks (removal of infested, adding annoying grind or pain enemies/traps).

[Phantasmo]

 

Let me guess what you mean by balance:  make all the DPS outliers like the DPS mean.  That is a blind dogmatic point of view that totally ignores the customer for the sake of some idea.  The smarter approach is to adjust the various DPS to the DPS that FEELS comfortable to the customer. not blindly favor the median DPS.  What players feel is TTK.  DE needs to find TTK values that FEEL comfortable to players and set the DPSs to conform to a comfortable TTK, in a sensible manner because not all ammunition is created equally.

 

Balancing to the median is just dumb, and a complete lack of design.  Warframe is a video game, played by people for fun, for satisfaction.  If you don't design for customer satisfaction then you're not a video game designer.  You're just a hack.

 

You should not guess that much, you are so wrong.

 

Balance means if you pick warframe A you have as much fun as the guy who picks warframe B.

This is not happening.

Balance is the critical thing in each game. If the enemy is too difficult or too easy players get frustrated or bored.

 

You think this is not a problem? Just read this thread again.

Read the forums.

[ThePresident777]

You should not guess that much, you are so wrong.

 

Balance means if you pick warframe A you have as much fun as the guy who picks warframe B.

This is not happening.

Balance is the critical thing in each game. If the enemy is too difficult or too easy players get frustrated or bored.

 

You think this is not a problem? Just read this thread again.

Read the forums.

 

That has nothing to do with nerfs, buffs, medians, and outliers which is what people typically call balance.  You're definition of balance is atypical.

 

And, I don't agree with it.  It implies that all content must be satisfactory to all players and that is impossible.  People have mutually exclusive opinions.  The only way to satisfy them is to create appropriate solutions for each, not put them all in the same sandbox and expect it to work because REASONS.

[Phantasmo]

That has nothing to do with nerfs, buffs, medians, and outliers which is what people typically call balance.  You're definition of balance is atypical.

 

And, I don't agree with it.  It implies that all content must be satisfactory to all players and that is impossible.  People have mutually exclusive opinions.  The only way to satisfy them is to create appropriate solutions for each, not put them all in the same sandbox and expect it to work because REASONS.

 

I think I'm wasting time trying to educate you but anyway.

 

YES BY ALL MEANS YES. Players picking, say Ash should enjoy the game as much as players who pick Nova. But it won't happen because Nova will clear the room before Ash finishes his ultimate. And THIS is a problem of balance.

And it's just an example.

 

There are many other problems in Warframe though, balance is just one of them.

 

I can live with the current amount of tile sets and enemies. It's the lack of purpose, story, and challenge what has driven me out of the game.

[KONAir]

But it won't happen because Nova will clear the room before Ash finishes his ultimate. And THIS is a problem of balance.

 

That's more of a problem with blind matchmaking. In an arranged team existance of Nova means everyone is relying on M.Prime or AMD for damage while rest focuses on different things. But then you have high level games where M.Prime is a must because niether weapons nor skills damage scale with enemy armour and you have to have a Nova. It is not really a balance issue between frames, it is much bigger balance issue between Players as a whole versus enemies.

Edited March 20, 2014 by KONAir

[ThePresident777]

I would still be happily doing infested survival missions on the normal starmap - but they took that out and after awhile I bolted.  I don't play.  I'm still interested in the game and I will check out the new infested maps when they come out.  If they are as fun as the old infested survivals, I'll be back.

Warframe has a lot of great core gameplay features - the survival map basically focused these features to the most entertaining level I've seen so far (lots of guys to kill, scaling enemies, consistent rewards, MOVEMENT focused gameplay - most of the frames can shine at certain stages of a survival mission).

 

I love how you can load up and complete missions with random people quickly and easily - this doesn't hold true for derelicts OR invasions (because people bolt asap on invasion survival T_T).

Warframe needs to focus and develop its strengths, not remove enjoyable content or ad stumbling blocks (removal of infested, adding annoying grind or pain enemies/traps).

 

THIS!

 

DE shoots itself in the foot constantly because they don't respect the customer.  They take away from the customer what satisfies the customer.  DE actively works to subvert customer satisfaction.

[ThePresident777]

I think I'm wasting time trying to educate you but anyway.

 

YES BY ALL MEANS YES. Players picking, say Ash should enjoy the game as much as players who pick Nova. But it won't happen because Nova will clear the room before Ash finishes his ultimate. And THIS is a problem of balance.

And it's just an example.

 

There are many other problems in Warframe though, balance is just one of them.

 

I can live with the current amount of tile sets and enemies. It's the lack of purpose, story, and challenge what has driven me out of the game.

 

You assume that Ash and Nova belong in the same mission, or that all Warframes should be equally effective in all missions.  You're point of view is very narrow.  There is plenty of entertaining media where not everything is equally effective all the time in all places under all circumstances.  Yet, you expect otherwise.  Your expectations are not reasonable.

[ThePresident777]

That's more of a problem with blind matchmaking. In an arranged team existance of Nova means everyone is relying on M.Prime or AMD for damage while rest focuses on different things. But then you have high level games where M.Prime is a must because niether weapons nor skills damage scale with enemy armour and you have to have a Nova. It is not really a balance issue between frames, it is much bigger balance issue between Players as a whole versus enemies.

 

I'm inclined to think that the enemy just doesn't fight back effectively.  Also, Horde Mode, enemies are supposed to die in droves.  The challenge has to come from the Horde in Horde Mode, not the individual enemies vis-a-vis the players.  Challenging enemies vis-a-vis the players is more like squad vs. squad than squad vs. horde.