After Using Excalibur Again...weakest Frame Of All?

[Shehriazad]

Like seriously...even if he is labeled as beginner...so are the other 2 choices...and they are far superior.

I honestly think that Excalibur is BY FAR the weakest frame of all...and I really hope that he gets some overhaul soonish.


Let's sum it up:

Stats:

Health and Shield = Medium tier
Armor = Low medium tier
Energy = low tier
Speed = medium tier

He got shafted there already...there is absolutely nothing that gives him any worth mentionable defenses... and while he isn't at a Nova type shield level... Novas skillset makes up for it...while Excas just does NOT.


Abilities:

 

Slash Dash: A dash that does 500 slashing damage... useless beyond medium level play except for movement...but due to cast delay it's questionable if its not better to just slide.

Radial Blind:His only useful skill as it has the same level of use versus all enemy levels. Downside = cast time is too long and he is too squishy to safely use it in highlevel. The 5 second cast delay after every use does not help either. This just makes it feel like Nyx Chaos' way inferior brother.

Super Jump: This is basically just part 1 of Zephyrs jump (yes yes, exca had it first) and ends up being the most inferior of all movement abilities..it literally just makes you jump higher...and is awkward to control.
Only good side? It only costs 10 energy.

Radial Javelin: Fixed 1000 mixed damage that can actually be blocked by objects/environment and things like Grineer shields. It also has a 1 second pre cast and a 2.5 second after cast animation that leaves you prone to just be slaughtered by any single highlevel enemy.

Feels like the most inferior "ultimate" of all Warframes.



Conclusion:

Excalibur may be fun to some..but it can not be denied that he is mediocre to okay at best on every level...there is nothing that makes him a good choice over any other given frame....not a single thing he excels at.

Ideas for Fixes:

 

Stats aren't the problem here... it's that his skills offer absolutely nothing for his mediocre stats so he can actually be of real use or have realistic survivability in high level missions.

So let's just fix up his skills without necessarily giving him a full make-over...shall we?

Slash Dash:  It has potential to be useful... so let's use that potential and make this ability his personal survivability. Remove cast delay. During the 0.75 charge duration he will receive only 50% damage and furthermore for every enemy hit a small amount of energy is restored(1/2/3/4 per enemy)).

Every time he successfully hits an enemy with slash dash he gains a stack of the swordman.(one per dash) This lasts 3 seconds and when 3 stacks are reached he will fill up his energy shield and reset the buff.

Link slash dash damage to melee weapon damage and apply stats. Crits and procs can be applied, scales off of normal hits.

Radial Blind: Could be left as is with the other changes even if no one likes cast delays.

Super Jump: No good changes come to mind...leave as is for now.

Radial Javelin: Damage scales off of charge attack damage. Procs and Crits can be applied. For every enemy hit allies will receive a buff that raises their damage by 5% per stack. 10 stack maximum. Buff lasts 20 seconds.


What would those changes do?

They would not destroy the core of Excalibur, but make him versatile and give him solo and team use alike. Players can focus more on a dash build with a normal attack weapon and be more of an ego/solo player.

More advanced players can try and focus on a Radial Javelin build and pack a charge weapon and try to keep a combination of Slash Dash and Radial Javelin going to keep the team permanently buffed up if possible.

Radial Blind would remain more of a clutch one time aoe CC if things go rotten somewhere.

Super Jump would remain awkward as is for now.



That is all.
 

Edited March 27, 2014 by Shehriazad

[vasRayya]

He works just as well as any other frame for me. 

[izzatuw]

Why are Nyx and Excal the only people that are being hated...

[shut]

He was balanced before, and he hasn't exactly been weakened since then. Excalibur isn't "weak", other frames are just too strong. It's power creep at work.

 

 

That said, though, Excalibur is easily the most underestimated Frame in the game. Not many people take into account the fact that Radial Blind has 250% Bastille's range and an unlimited target count for only two thirds of the energy cost, for example. Not to mention that any Blinded enemy receives a 4x Stealth multiplier from melee attacks, which have a 100% chance of triggering Berserker. People also forget that Slash Dash is an excellent dodging tool.

The only thing in his set that has needed a buff for a while is Radial Javelin, and even that only needs a bit of utility (stagger or ragdoll or something).

 

 

I do like your suggestions, though. I just don't like your reasoning.

Edited March 27, 2014 by SortaRandom

[avinity8]

He was one of the last frames i got and leveled. Boy am I glad too. For whatever reason I just didn't like him. Same with Nekors, but at least nekros has a cool theme to him and his ult is nice to use.

 

Most people here actually like Excal tho. I don't know why I don't like him :\

[Luminati07]

After being a constant user of Nyx, Nova and Vauban, Excalibur still feels the best to me.

 

Radial Blind more than makes up for his weaknesses in the other departments. I can't count the amount of times it's saved my &#!, or saved a teammate.

 

I'd say Chaos is Radial Blind's redheaded step child. (no offense meant to actual redheaded stepchildren)

 

Chaos can't be casted while there is a single enemy still inflicted by it (unless that's changed), while Radial Blind can be used whenever you need it.

Nothing worse than trying to use Chaos as a life-saver, only to be told "power in use".

I've also never had any issues using Radial Blind at higher levels (if a ~50 minute T3 Survival is anything to go off)

 

All in all, Excalibur is amazing. Even better when you use Excalibur Prime. Because...You know, reasons.

[VoidPunch]

Been using excal since the first day I played, then when I got excal prime. Still like him just as much, he's one of my favorites still and I have almost every frame in the game. He isn't a damage dealer but he is just fun to use.

 

He will get looked at at some point just like every frame they have not tweaked yet.

[egregiousRac]

Slashdash - You are invulnerable and pass through enemies.

 

Radial Blind - Quite useful, although it is severely eclipsed by other characters skills, is only skill 2 though.

 

Super Jump - It seemed good until Zephyr got a better version of it.

 

Radial Javelin - Scales AMAZINGLY. Both damage per javelin and number of javelins scale off damage.

[Shehriazad]

Why are Nyx and Excal the only people that are being hated...

 

Nyx is my absolute favorite...no Nyx hate here xD

[izzatuw]

Your build must suck too. Not offending you but without a good build every frame is bad

[izzatuw]

Nyx is my absolute favorite...no Nyx hate here xD

Same but you do know there's a thread about Nyx being the worst as well you know?

[Veridantus]

Since Excal is one of my favourite frame, my opinion are probably quite subjective but here goes :

1. Stats : Quite okay as it is, maybe need an armor buff a bit (like 15 - 25 points) but not entirely necessary, his skills adds a lot of mobility

2. Slash Dash : Useful enough as it is, adding power duration adds range, adding power range adds AoE. Damage is meh but it's his 1st skill anyway & most of the time just using it for mobility.

3. Radial Blind : 1 of the best Crowd Control utility.. Adding duration & efficiency & you pretty much perma-stun+blind enemies

4. Super Jump : IMO very2 useful, I use this a lot on a lot of maps, cheap & another mobility tool

5. Radial Jav : Damage definitely needs another look at.. But then again he's no nuker..

conclusion(IMO) : He may need a few tweaks but still a very good warframe.. Scales well to end game due to his Radial Blind & Mobility..

[43Emprah]

You want a skill that costs 25 energy before mods, which is extremely spammable after mods, to proc status effects and factor in melee weapon damage? On top of it, you want it to return energy for every enemy struck, and grant energy shield after a stacking buff?

Please tell me how that is balanced for a tier 1 skill. 

Now I agree on Excal overall being less than enjoyable for MY personal tastes. I know plenty of players who have every frame and still enjoy Excal over the others though, so while I would like to see him buffed/reworked, I don't think it's an even remotely objective fact that " it can not be denied that he is mediocre to okay at best on every level" 

[Kloaked]

You must be using him wrong. I didn't bother to read all of the post because I'm tired, so I care less, ha.

Radial Blind builds are really great for support/utility for any kind of mission, especially Survival and Defense.

 

Equip Energy Siphon as your aura, then Continuity, Streamline and Intensify and you're good to go. I only use those three since I use my other three free slots for shields, health and armor. It seems to work fine, especially if you and your group have good DPS.

[shut]

Same but you do know there's a thread about Nyx being the worst as well you know?

There's also a thread about Excalibur being stupidly overpowered. One thread made by one person does not dictate the state of a class.

[Bobsplosion]

Did everyone forget about Volt?

[Nijuroku]

You have a fairly good point. I like your take on the changes for slash dash but Super Jump needs a bit more usefulness other than its jumping utility. DE released the Heavy Impact mod in hopes of making Super Jump useful. Radial Blind only needs tweaks on its casting time unless you would like to use a Natural Talent which costs one more mod slot. 

[DarkLizalfos]

Excal's stats are the average for many other frames.*coughVoltEmbercough* You can't touch them without a total balance pass for the rest of those frames.

 

Only one frame in the entire game has had their stats balanced against their abilities. That is Vauban. Everyone else comes up equal or positive in stats. People get really fussy over a free 25 base health(Oberon) or +.1 movement speed(Ash) for Excalibur's group.

 

Radial Javelin could use a bit more utility, Bladestorm and Avalanche too.

[LazyKnight]

There's also a thread about Excalibur being stupidly overpowered. One thread made by one person does not dictate the state of a class.

He has one skill that makes him useful, all the others have issues. He is stronger now than at any point in damage 1.0 because of the corrupted mods and radial blind. However, his slash dash and radial javelin are not worth using for damage when you have a weapon with half-way decent mods.

Edited March 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[shut]

He has one skill that makes him useful, all the others have issues. He is stronger now than at any point in damage 1.0 because of the corrupted mods and radical blind. However, his slash dash and radical javelin are not worth using for damage when you have a weapon with half-way decent mods.

Haha, I can agree that Javelin needs some looking at. Slash Dash and Super Jump are excellent utility tools, though. The former is excellent for getting yourself behind cover or simply keeping mobile while resisting all knockdowns, and the latter is... well, a crazy utility boost that costs practically nothing. They're only crappy if they don't match your playing style well.

 

At most, Slash Dash just needs the ability to turn in the desired direction while charging (a la Demoknight in TF2), and maybe a slight decrease in delay as OP suggested. Super Jump is near perfection as it is. xD

Edited March 27, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Veridantus]

Haha, I can agree that Javelin needs some looking at. Slash Dash and Super Jump are excellent utility tools, though. The former is excellent for getting yourself behind cover or simply keeping mobile while resisting all knockdowns, and the latter is... well, a crazy utility boost that costs practically nothing. They're only crappy if they don't match your playing style well.

 

At most, Slash Dash just needs the ability to turn in the desired direction while charging (a la Demoknight in TF2), and maybe a slight decrease in delay as OP suggested. Super Jump is near perfection as it is. xD

^Couldn't agree more..

Though I agree with OP a bit on the part where Slash Dash dmg should scale with melee weapon damage.. Maybe with a melee dmg multiplier.. 

[LazyKnight]

. They're only crappy if they don't match your playing style well.

I have slash dash equipped, but I use it for movement, as opposed to using it for the damage. Super jump is fine it is just like bounce that fills the role of mobility. My only real complaint about Super jump would be that heavy impact was made a separate mod and not just included with Super jump.

 

Radial javelin needs something done to it because of how so many obstacle will block it. The damage it does isn't that great, but the real problem is number of times it gets stuck on other players and everything else. This makes it seem like a candidate for a review to make it a more practical power.

Edited March 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Tatersail]

I have to disagree

 

 

Slash Dash: Was the strongest 1 in the game till damage 2.0, its still one of the most damaging 1's, since you hit multiple targets in an AOE, it does need some mods to work well, but compared to other 1's that hit ONE target for 500, its way ahead as its AOE.

Radial Blind:at max level with mods this is without a doubt the strongest control in the game, with no Power in use like Chaos, good duration, cheap cast, and giant range, You can use this to TURN OFF an entire map, totally dwarfs, Chaos, Snow globe, Radial disarm, Terrify, Bastille, etc.

Super Jump:  It only costs 10 energy.  

Radial Javelin: the casting time is annoying but its still 1000 mixed damage, and I noticed in the void that it works like bows/bolt weapons, if you kill the front mob, it damages the ones behind it too, in a packed corridor it can hit way more than 15 targets, and with multiple hits from a javalin it can do more than 2000 damage.

 

 

I don't see any issues with Excal, especially as a free starter frame.

Tho I admit Endgame use, is pretty much Just radial blind for people who know how to exploit this hideously powerful skill with corrupted mods.

[neKroMancer]

The problem with Excal is his ultimate is rather terrible (if you don't have your partner Mag coming with you).

 

Slashdash ans SJ are nice mobility powers, one vetical and one horizontal. However, I think equipping heavy impact just to utilize SJ is a bit too much. SJ should be integrated with heavy impact.

 

Radial blind is probably his most powerful asset. Combined with silence weapon, this power is extremely useful as CC and damage mitigation.

 

Radial javelin needs something more than the current state. It doesn't scale very well, It usually obstructed by crates, walls, ladders and reduce potential damage. Worst of all is the fact that it has no utility aspect to make it useful after the damage is no longer useful. The reason why everyone loves Rhino Stomp is the fact that it suspends enemies in the air for a few seconds even when damage is totally eclipsed by high level enemies. 

[AvatarCloud]

I feel that Excal is fine the way he is. The Jack of All Trades, master of none. The only buff I would suggest is giving his Radial Javelin some Punch Through, they can keep his damage and cast time as it is. It just annoys the crap out of me that it can't go through Grineer Shileds nor can it go through a tiny bit of cover. Other than that, absolutely love this frame!