Who The Orokin Are, What The Infested Are, And How I Know.

[Onimachi]

The Technocyte Virus (the corrupting, mutating plague first seen in Warframe's spiritual/actual predecessor, Dark Sector) is what turns normal biological organisims into infested, See: Zerg.  This disease infected the world after the end Dark Sector, and most thinking, organic things; most sentient things, were consumed.  Those who survived must have relied on machines to do the heavy lifting required to sustain life on earth and eventually throuought the solar system. Someone gives the machines a brain, the thinking machines revolt, gain the upper hand, humanity pulls a last-stand-win, and when it looks like we're about to send Omnius-Skynet to that big cloud server in the sky, The Architect opens up The Void, and out spill the Tenno.

Tenno: a human "pilot" infected by Technocyte who's powers and likely their corporeal being are held together by superscience generously provided by the Orokin Machines.  The volatile and infectious nature of the technocyte virus (as shown through the infested in Dark Sector and Warframe, and implied in Excalibur's codex entry) likely means that becoming a Tenno is not only a one-way trip, but you can't exist without your frame for a meaningful amount of time (think Ironman and his heart-magnet).

Cliche'dly, the Orokin make the mistake all machine overlords make - they underestimate the "Human Spirit" (See: Heart of the cards) and the Tenno realize they have more in common with the humans they are slaughtering than the Machines hosting them. They (we) Starscream the robarts, going HAM on their entire empire (That's why the corpus refer to the Tenno as "betrayers".

[Nyrakav]

This actually makes sense.

[immolator1001]

The orokin aren't machines. They were humanoids (read embers codex). They were however almost wiped out by these things called the "Sentients" which DE said would be the most alien faction when they eventually return.

You're right about te infested, but the Orokin were humans/evolved humanoids

Edited March 30, 2014 by immolator1001

[Morec0]

On the basics of what you said - the Orokin Empire being spawned from the Ashes of the Technocyte infestation of Earth - I agree with, after that, though, either you have some facts mixed up or I just wasn't able to understand you well enough.

[Apochron]

1) Who put the Tenno get into the Void in the first place? One old event message made it sound like some sort of quarantine zone. Why would some infected humans be sent to the Void, and others stay to die on Earth?

 

2) Why would Tenno betraying the Orokin have anything to do with the Corpus? The only being old enough to know about that incident is Stalker. If anything, Lotus being an ex-Corpus operator seems more likely.

[JohnProdman]

The Orokin are humans from Earth. The Four current factions are a product of the decay and fall of the Orokin, from the battle with the sentients, the assassinations by the Tenno, and conflict with the remnants afterwards.

 

Humanity eventually split into the Tenno, the Corpus, the Grineer, and the Technocyte Infested.

 

Also it should be noted that while Warframe and Dark Sector share many similarities, Dark Sector is not in the least bit canon to Warframe's lore. The largest similarity would be Hayden Tenno and the Technocyte virus, but they aren't exactly the same person and virus from Dark Sector. Digital Extremes did not get their original idea for Dark Sector approved back when they made that game. (This has been said a few times during Livestreams)

 

They have since gone Indie and began actually working on their own ideas. Hayden Tenno and the Technocyte from Dark Sector are not identical to the Hayden Tenno and Technocyte in the Warframe universe.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Dominus_Tenno

[Morec0]

1) Who put the Tenno get into the Void in the first place? One old event message made it sound like some sort of quarantine zone. Why would some infected humans be sent to the Void, and others stay to die on Earth?

 

2) Why would Tenno betraying the Orokin have anything to do with the Corpus? The only being old enough to know about that incident is Stalker. If anything, Lotus being an ex-Corpus operator seems more likely.

 

I can't speak on the second, given there IS some leaked lore about it floating around out there but I can't find out. But as for the first: read Ember's lore, it clears it up a bit.

[Ionus]

Ember's codex entry heavily implies the Orokin were human.

On the other hand, Excalibur's entry mentions the Sentients had "turned their technology against us" and the name fits automic machines.

[Onimachi]

The orokin aren't machines. They were humanoids (read embers codex). They were however wiped out by these things called the "Sentients" which DE said would be the most alien faction when they eventually return.

You're right about te infested, but the Orokin were humans/evolved humanoids

I can see how you'd get that impression from the Ember Prime Codex, but I don't think it's a good support for the humanity of the Orokin.  There is no strong implication that any party in the dialogue is Orokin.  My continued evidence for Orokin as Machine is thus:

 

The Orokin fought against "The Sentients", it would be linguistically counterproductive to refer to your enemy using a quality you share with it.  Thinking machines may have determined that while they are sapient, or insightful, they were not sentient in the classical, organic definition of the word.

 

I also posit, that In a bizzare and Orwellian twist, the Sentients may have became so machine like in their quest to destroy the Ai/Mechanical Orokin that they were more machine than man...Alien, in a esoteric (perhaps not literal) sense. From Excalibur's codex: "The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us."

The Orokin display a mastery of using organic and inorganic puppets to defend themselves from harm, this ability (combined with what we know about the Tennos' betrayal) implies that they might have been using a similar technology to control the once human tenno.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Onimachi

[immolator1001]

I can see how you'd get that impression from the Ember Prime Codex, but I don't think it's a good support for the humanity of the Orokin.  There is no strong implication that any party in the dialogue is Orokin.  My continued evidence for Orokin as Machine is thus:

 

The Orokin fought against "The Sentients", it would be linguistically counterproductive to refer to your enemy using a quality you share with it.  Thinking machines may have determined that while they are sapient, or insightful, they were not sentient in the classical, organic definition of the word.

 

I also posit, that In a bizzare and Orwellian twist, the Sentients may have became so machine like in their quest to destroy the Ai/Mechanical Orokin that they were more machine than man...Alien, in a esoteric (perhaps not literal) sense. From Excalibur's codex: "The Sentients had won. They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us."

The Orokin display a mastery of using organic and inorganic puppets to defend themselves from harm, this ability (combined with what we know about the Tennos' betrayal) implies that they might have been using a similar technology to control the once human tenno.

Are you saying that the Orokins, who you claim were robots who took over weren't sentient? Because that's kinda nessecarily for a robot uprising.

Also Ember's codex talks about the creation of the Tenno, who we know we created by the orokin. And things that create the Tenno are human, or basically human.

Orokin created the Tenno

The things that created the Tenno and talked about them being made were humans or some evolved form of humans.

Orokins are human(ish)

[Onimachi]

1) Who put the Tenno get into the Void in the first place? One old event message made it sound like some sort of quarantine zone. Why would some infected humans be sent to the Void, and others stay to die on Earth?

 

2) Why would Tenno betraying the Orokin have anything to do with the Corpus? The only being old enough to know about that incident is Stalker. If anything, Lotus being an ex-Corpus operator seems more likely.

1) The Tenno wern't "put" into the void per-se, they were created there.  The Orokin were created by the humans to manage the Infested (aka the Technocyte virus' mutated critters) and their Final Solution was to put corral them into a sort of slipspace, or The Void.  It is clear that the Infested have some sort of intelegence, hive-mind or no, so it is likely that the Orokin captured/localized that,  and sent it packing to the Phantom Zone (opera not included).  Once the zerg had no overmind, it was simple mop up. And for a time, it was good.  Then the Human-Machine wars bubble up, the machines underestimate the power of friendship, in their desperation they open up the void to unleash the worst they could find on the humans.  The worst they could find were the humans that had been able to survive in Infested Space.  Again, from excalibur's codex "The war was over unless we found a new way. In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed. We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction"

TLDR: The Tenno were made from the poor schmucks who limped out of The Void when the Orokin opend it back up into realspace, near the end of the human-machine war.

2): The Corpus and Greneer are factions of humanity, and humanity was around before and during the Orokin era.  While they don't likely know the whole story, the bookish and machine cult-y grineer likely know more about what went down than anyone else (save lotus).  So, it doesn't have anything to do with the corpus directly, but they may have some extremely biased quasi-religious records about it.

Thanks for reading and considering!

[Onimachi]

Are you saying that the Orokins, who you claim were robots who took over weren't sentient? Because that's kinda nessecarily for a robot uprising.

Also Ember's codex talks about the creation of the Tenno, who we know we created by the orokin. And things that create the Tenno are human, or basically human.

Orokin created the Tenno

The things that created the Tenno and talked about them being made were humans or some evolved form of humans.

Orokins are human(ish)

I'm saying that the Orokin didn't refer to themselves as sentient, clearly. One of three things is true:

A) the Orokin are humans who did not refer to themselves as sentient

B) The Orokin are non-humans who did not refer to themselves as sentient

or C) the Orokin refereed to both themselves and their enemies as "Sentient" aka "we are the Orokin, and we are sentient, but they are THE Sentients"

Seeing as we, humans, currently refer to ourselves as sentient, i'd wager that either B or C is the case, with B being more likely.  I agree with you, this seems like a silly semantic thing for the Orokin to do if they are machines, but It still makes more sense than them also being human.

[immolator1001]

I'm saying that the Orokin didn't refer to themselves as sentient, clearly. One of three things is true:

A) the Orokin are humans who did not refer to themselves as sentient

B) The Orokin are non-humans who did not refer to themselves as sentient

or C) the Orokin refereed to both themselves and their enemies as "Sentient" aka "we are the Orokin, and we are sentient, but they are THE Sentients"

Seeing as we, humans, currently refer to ourselves as sentient, i'd wager that either B or C is the case, with B being more likely.  I agree with you, this seems like a silly semantic thing for the Orokin to do if they are machines, but It still makes more sense than them also being human.

There is no evidence that the orokin were non-human. It is much more likely that the Orokin and evolved humans and that the sentients are called sentient, because it is strange that they are sentient or that the only way to describe them is sentient.

It could be that the sentients were a race of sentient machines

It also says that they turned the orokin's technology against them could the sentients be something the orokin didn't understand that made the orokin's technology sentient against them?

[Onimachi]

Are you saying that the Orokins, who you claim were robots who took over weren't sentient? Because that's kinda nessecarily for a robot uprising.

Also Ember's codex talks about the creation of the Tenno, who we know we created by the orokin. And things that create the Tenno are human, or basically human.

Orokin created the Tenno

The things that created the Tenno and talked about them being made were humans or some evolved form of humans.

Orokins are human(ish)

Again, I don't think the Ember codex entry reveals much.  It certanly doesn't prove (or even imply, really) that the Orokin are human.  

What it does imply, is that the tenno can (in some way) exude their abilities outside their frames.

Ships that are lost in the solar rail transit never return, likely because they enter the void (which I suspect is just Deep Space).

Humans who enter the void, or who have been in the void for extended periods begin to exhibit tenno-like abilities, likely related to what point in the void/realspace they spend time in (ember's parts are found on Saturn, the ship was lost near saturn) 

I'm open to be proven wrong about all this though, I just think it's a big stretch to assume Ember's entry contains Orokin talking to eachother, when that's not stated (or really impled) in the text. No?

[Onimachi]

There is no evidence that the orokin were non-human. It is much more likely that the Orokin and evolved humans and that the sentients are called sentient, because it is strange that they are sentient or that the only way to describe them is sentient.

It could be that the sentients were a race of sentient machines

It also says that they turned the orokin's technology against them could the sentients be something the orokin didn't understand that made the orokin's technology sentient against them?

I was just writing a post to this effect, I agree that this is the other reasonable theory!  I lean towards the orokin-as-machine one, though, because of the Infested/technocyte virus.  The only things Infested seem to not infect (mutate and control utterly, I know they are working on new infested ship interiors which are more "infested", but that's not what I mean) are mechanical things, so it would make much sense to create AI controlled, mechanical solutions to infested problems.  You're right that there's not direct evidence for this, but I think it's a fair deduction, no?

Again, i'm open to being proved wrong if someone has some better evidence.

[immolator1001]

Again, I don't think the Ember codex entry reveals much.  It certanly doesn't prove (or even imply, really) that the Orokin are human.  

What it does imply, is that the tenno can (in some way) exude their abilities outside their frames.

Ships that are lost in the solar rail transit never return, likely because they enter the void (which I suspect is just Deep Space).

Humans who enter the void, or who have been in the void for extended periods begin to exhibit tenno-like abilities, likely related to what point in the void/realspace they spend time in (ember's parts are found on Saturn, the ship was lost near saturn) 

I'm open to be proven wrong about all this though, I just think it's a big stretch to assume Ember's entry contains Orokin talking to eachother, when that's not stated (or really impled) in the text. No?

It's 100% implied by the text.

It talks about the creation of the Tenno, children who were sent into the void.

Who created the Tenno? The Orokin.

The people talking in it are human.

It says "Why did you put children on military ship?"

So the people in it put the children on it.

The children became the Tenno.

The Tenno were created by the Orokin.

The people who made the Tenno are Orokin.

The "we didn't that would violate procedures" at the end is saying how the military did it off the record because it was monstrous. It also is making the argument that hey Kaleen you broke procedure and there was nothing wrong with it, it's the same way with us!

[AbyssalCrow]

I hope you know that the Tenno killed the Sentients AND the Orokin.

 

as for the Orokin is machine's, Look at Stalker, as he is a Orokin Guardian.

Also the Corpus may either be Sentient or Orokin survivors as they label the Tenno as "Betrayers" meaning they know something about the past.

[Arlayn]

Orokin are humanoid

Infested, and infected are not so similar.

My theory is that the infected is a sort of inbetween catalyst to make a Tenno. Meaning a Human/humanoid infected must then surpass insanity test caused by the pain of change. If they can stay sane, and control it they become Tenno(The Warframe might be the replacement for the injection Hayden used to stop himself from fully transforming in the future, and has yet to be figured out how it was made as said chemical apparently doesn't exist in the future to be used to stop the process of them becoming monsters like Phorid. So they must wear the Warframe). If they fail to control it they become beings like Colossus, and Stalker from Dark Sector, or Phorid from Warframe. (Lephantis was forced creation.))

 

Seeing as anyone else who goes into the void According to the Orokin dies... The Corpus have to stay in their ships(the missions that allowed us to find Phobos showed this)

 

So anyone else dies from the void. With no explanation as to why? The only theory is there must be a catalyst that keeps the Tenno from dying.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Arlayn

[Sloan441]

The orokin empire was a human polity. How it was run and what form it actually was, we don't know, but it's pretty apparent AIs were heavily involved in it in some fashion. They may have even been running the show, or at least heavily involved in its management.

 

We have no clue what the sentients were. The only thing we know is the orokin fought a war with them and almost lost. The sentients were able to either coopt or neutralize whatever the orokin could field with their advanced technology.

 

Dark Sector is canon material. It details the creation of the technocyte plague and how it affected humans. It's far, far in the past.

 

The orokin are aware of this past and revert to it in an attempt to stymie the sentients. They create the core of the tenno by exposing children to the void and then constructing warframes (living steel from the virus) for them to focus their power and protect them. They obviously found a way to manage the infection of the technocyte virus (probably from experiments on the infested looking for weapons to defeat the sentients) to create their new "tenno".

 

They use their new soldiers to defeat the sentients, who were unable to cope with them. This war was fought outside the origin system. When the tenno returned victorious, they were unhappy with some aspect of either the orokin or whatever they found fighting the sentients--or both. They turned on the orokin and destroyed their empire.

 

Fast forward a few hundred to a few thousand years and here we are.

[MegaSnail]

The Technocyte Virus (the corrupting, mutating plague first seen in Warframe's spiritual/actual predecessor, Dark Sector) is what turns normal biological organisims into infested, See: Zerg.  This disease infected the world after the end Dark Sector, and most thinking, organic things; most sentient things, were consumed.  Those who survived must have relied on machines to do the heavy lifting required to sustain life on earth and eventually throuought the solar system. Someone gives the machines a brain, the thinking machines revolt, gain the upper hand, humanity pulls a last-stand-win, and when it looks like we're about to send Omnius-Skynet to that big cloud server in the sky, The Architect opens up The Void, and out spill the Tenno.

Tenno: a human "pilot" infected by Technocyte who's powers and likely their corporeal being are held together by superscience generously provided by the Orokin Machines.  The volatile and infectious nature of the technocyte virus (as shown through the infested in Dark Sector and Warframe, and implied in Excalibur's codex entry) likely means that becoming a Tenno is not only a one-way trip, but you can't exist without your frame for a meaningful amount of time (think Ironman and his heart-magnet).

Cliche'dly, the Orokin make the mistake all machine overlords make - they underestimate the "Human Spirit" (See: Heart of the cards) and the Tenno realize they have more in common with the humans they are slaughtering than the Machines hosting them. They (we) Starscream the robarts, going HAM on their entire empire (That's why the corpus refer to the Tenno as "betrayers".

This is basically what I think except for the Orokin part. It's a bit more deeper than that... I wonder why people can't understand me when I say it Q_Q

[TheStag]

The orokin aren't machines. They were humanoids (read embers codex). They were however wiped out by these things called the "Sentients" which DE said would be the most alien faction when they eventually return.

You're right about te infested, but the Orokin were humans/evolved humanoids

Your right and wrong. The Orokin are Humans, but they almost lost the war to the Sentients. They sent some people into the void, and those that came back still alive had a frame built around them. Those were the Tenno. The Tenno defeated the Sentients, but then killed all of the Orokin Emperors to bring "balance" to the system. See Stalker's codex entry.

[immolator1001]

Your right and wrong. The Orokin are Humans, but they almost lost the war to the Sentients. They sent some people into the void, and those that came back still alive had a frame built around them. Those were the Tenno. The Tenno defeated the Sentients, but then killed all of the Orokin Emperors to bring "balance" to the system. See Stalker's codex entry.

Oh ya meant to say almost wiped out. The point of that post was that they were fighting.

[Veridantus]

I can't speak on the second, given there IS some leaked lore about it floating around out there but I can't find out. But as for the first: read Ember's lore, it clears it up a bit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/20fv58/i_found_some_old_preu9_datamine_with_lore_inside/

Page 11 & somewhere around page 30-something or 50-ish.. i forgot..

Edited March 30, 2014 by Veridantus

[Lqn8r]

The Technocyte Virus (the corrupting, mutating plague first seen in Warframe's spiritual/actual predecessor, Dark Sector) is what turns normal biological organisims into infested, See: Zerg.  This disease infected the world after the end Dark Sector, and most thinking, organic things; most sentient things, were consumed.  Those who survived must have relied on machines to do the heavy lifting required to sustain life on earth and eventually throuought the solar system. Someone gives the machines a brain, the thinking machines revolt, gain the upper hand, humanity pulls a last-stand-win, and when it looks like we're about to send Omnius-Skynet to that big cloud server in the sky, The Architect opens up The Void, and out spill the Tenno.

Tenno: a human "pilot" infected by Technocyte who's powers and likely their corporeal being are held together by superscience generously provided by the Orokin Machines.  The volatile and infectious nature of the technocyte virus (as shown through the infested in Dark Sector and Warframe, and implied in Excalibur's codex entry) likely means that becoming a Tenno is not only a one-way trip, but you can't exist without your frame for a meaningful amount of time (think Ironman and his heart-magnet).

Cliche'dly, the Orokin make the mistake all machine overlords make - they underestimate the "Human Spirit" (See: Heart of the cards) and the Tenno realize they have more in common with the humans they are slaughtering than the Machines hosting them. They (we) Starscream the robarts, going HAM on their entire empire (That's why the corpus refer to the Tenno as "betrayers".

You're kinda wrong about the zerg since they aren't a virus at all. Sure they can infest terran/protoss but originally they were primal beings whose goal was survival of the fittest. That is where the adaption part comes in. It's only when amon and the xel-naga discovered the zerg, that they become what they are known for now. Also the orokin created the infested to combat the sentients. However, it seems that the infested were either useless or were unable to be controlled as they started spreading. They are kinda related to tenno with the old j-3 quote "why do you destroy, we are your flesh" this may mean they are the forerunners of tenno or failed tenno experiments. It basically links the tenno and infested which kind of makes sense because tenno can't be infected from what we know right now.

[Veridantus]

I was just writing a post to this effect, I agree that this is the other reasonable theory!  I lean towards the orokin-as-machine one, though, because of the Infested/technocyte virus.  The only things Infested seem to not infect (mutate and control utterly, I know they are working on new infested ship interiors which are more "infested", but that's not what I mean) are mechanical things, so it would make much sense to create AI controlled, mechanical solutions to infested problems.  You're right that there's not direct evidence for this, but I think it's a fair deduction, no?

Again, i'm open to being proved wrong if someone has some better evidence.

If the Orokin is a race of machines, then half the stalker's codex would loose it's meaning.. 

*With each beat terror began to crush my throat.*

*I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped*

*When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium*

All the sentences are taken from the Stalker's codex.

Machine race don't have blood or throat nor would talk/call out "strangled whisper"

they would have some form of communication that would be more effective than talking.

*In our desperation, we turned to the void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science & reason failed*

- Excalibur's codex

Machine race or AI may understand the concept of emotion but there's absolutely no way they will feel desperation/despair,

not to mention they cannot perform outside of logic & reason since they are programmed around it especially if by your theory, programmed by human.

Another thing is :

*Science & Reason failed* This is the key word that connects us to the ember codex.

Reason failed could also mean that they perform outside ethically & morally accepted actions..

Which as speculated from ember's codex, they perform an experiment with children/civilians which clearly violates moral & ethics.