The New Water Frame (Hydroid) Hype And Anticipation Megathread

[Vheraun]

From what I've collected (discussions with others, wiki and devstreams) which may be somehow faulty since I haven't checked all this info recently, frames are interchangable and provide the Tenno's powers. Which means that a Tenno that wears a Loki suit can very well put a Rhino on if need be.

 

This is at least what I choose to believe, until we have more lore. It's practically impossible that every Warframe exists once, if anything due to the possibility to play games with multiple frames. For me, they're just suits.

[Adaptor-Face]

Lets all sing the mightiest of sea shanties

[Calgacus]

I prefer to think that MC Hammer somehow cryogenically froze himself and became Hydroid in the future.

STOP!

[Morec0]

From what I've collected (discussions with others, wiki and devstreams) which may be somehow faulty since I haven't checked all this info recently, frames are interchangable and provide the Tenno's powers. Which means that a Tenno that wears a Loki suit can very well put a Rhino on if need be.

 

This is at least what I choose to believe, until we have more lore. It's practically impossible that every Warframe exists once, if anything due to the possibility to play games with multiple frames. For me, they're just suits.

 

I've gathered the opposite, especially considering they say they have pictures of what the Tenno look like underneath their Warframes, and earlier talk about the Tenno being separate characters via their comparison of them to League of Legends champions (that is to say there is one player, but he can play as one of any Tenno, although I think a better comparison is World of Warcraft characters). But we know for a fact that the frames DO NOT provide the Tenno with powers - see the end-Codex for Arid Fear in which Vor talks about the Warframes they managed to capture and study.

 

I don't know what you mean about every Warframe existing at once, though, or why playing with multiple frames is a possibility - there are more than one Ember in the same way there are more than one Soma gun and more than one Skana sword. The frames are tools, just suits (as you say), it's the Tenno underneath them that are the individual persons.

[ShadowCore67]

I like your theory OP. Makes sense to me.

[Shackram]

"What might be beneath his frame"?

 

A Tenno.

 

Or zoidberg.

[Simm]

Or zoidberg.

 

Probably, Bill Nighy.

[Morec0]

Or zoidberg.

 

Hydroid with black energy:

 

http://youtu.be/8Ka0reL8hzs?t=15s

Edited April 7, 2014 by Morec0

[Vheraun]

I've gathered the opposite, especially considering they say they have pictures of what the Tenno look like underneath their Warframes, and earlier talk about the Tenno being separate characters via their comparison of them to League of Legends champions (that is to say there is one player, but he can play as one of any Tenno, although I think a better comparison is World of Warcraft characters). But we know for a fact that the frames DO NOT provide the Tenno with powers - see the end-Codex for Arid Fear in which Vor talks about the Warframes they managed to capture and study.

 

I don't know what you mean about every Warframe existing at once, though, or why playing with multiple frames is a possibility - there are more than one Ember in the same way there are more than one Soma gun and more than one Skana sword. The frames are tools, just suits (as you say), it's the Tenno underneath them that are the individual persons.

I won't argue much about this, as we don't really have enough evidence. Perhaps I don't even want to accept your point of view out of sheer stubbornness.

 

On your final point though, we agree on the frames being the tools. But if the powers came from the Tenno, it means that there are many who possess specific abilities that harness fire (Ember), melee fighting (Excalibur), subterfuge (Loki) etc. The opinions that I've seen state that there are individual Tenno born (awoken) with each set of powers, not multiples.

Since I read that paragraph over and even I couldn't understand what I was talking about, let me make it clear.

Frames are suits, Tenno are the individuals. So far so good.

Now, we have three options.

a) There are some Tenno that developed specific powers and they were given the suits to harness them. One of each kind.

b) Many Tenno develop powers of one kind or another, and they are given the corresponding suit, which explains duplicates of each suit.

c) All Tenno are the same, powerless on their own, and their suits give them special abilities. Obviously, there are duplicates of each suit.

 

I choose to adopt c until further notice. Which one do you stand on?

[Morec0]

Again, C is false. See Ember's lore, see the Arid Fear finale statements made by Vor in the Codex. Arid Fear makes it very clear that the Warframes are not the sources of the powers, just conduits for the Tenno's powers - strengthened by the child mentioned in Ember's lore burning the woman.

 

A more logical C I've seen is that all the Tenno are the same, but the focusing that Vor speculates the frames do (as he did find that the frames ARE NOT the source of the Tenno's powers) focuses this general Void energy into specifics (Excalibur specifics, Ember specifics, ect.).

 

Me, though, I stand on B; multiple Tenno can have the same powers, and those Tenno wear a certain type of frame to harness their powers (backed by the Valkyr bonds entry talking about an "original" Valkyr, hinting that more came after her).

[SilentMobius]

We know from the construction materials that the Warframes require Technocyte material to make.

Also each 'frame has a specific "style" often reminiscent of something from old Earth.

 

I believe this is because the Orokin are the remnants of the Dark-sector-era Lotus organisation who left earth before or during the first technocyte apocalypse. They researched the living metal and rendered it safe and usable as a technological component, this is forma. They rebuilt their bodies in (or "infected" them selves with) the golden forma, rendering them immortal and raising them above the humanity they re-created after the fall of the Earth. When they created the Warframes they did so using similar technology as they had used upon themselves, but ensuring that it remained separate so that the "Tenno" were still dependent on the Orokin for repairs and production of Warframes.

 

Why am I saying all of this when it doesn't seem relevant?

 

Well I believe that the nature of forma as a derivative of old-earth technocyte living metal dictates some of it's usage, and the "design" of Warframes is 1 part technological know-how and 9 parts the intention and nature of those involved, hence the echo's of old-earth where the Orokin found suitable ideas for the Warframes of the first few Tenno.

 

tl;dr, Technocyte gubbins forms shapes based on feelings and concepts over pure mechanical design, Orokin had memories of old-earth hence: Pirate, Sapper, Bird, Rhino, Ninja, Templar, and Hayden Tenno.

[Vheraun]

Again, C is false. See Ember's lore, see the Arid Fear finale statements made by Vor in the Codex. Arid Fear makes it very clear that the Warframes are not the sources of the powers, just conduits for the Tenno's powers - strengthened by the child mentioned in Ember's lore burning the woman.

 

A more logical C I've seen is that all the Tenno are the same, but the focusing that Vor speculates the frames do (as he did find that the frames ARE NOT the source of the Tenno's powers) focuses this general Void energy into specifics (Excalibur specifics, Ember specifics, ect.).

 

Me, though, I stand on B; multiple Tenno can have the same powers, and those Tenno wear a certain type of frame to harness their powers (backed by the Valkyr bonds entry talking about an "original" Valkyr, hinting that more came after her).

Interesting aspect. You might even convince me...

 

A question. According to you, a suit is specific to a Tenno? As in, they can wear no other suits? Can they even survive out of their suit?

[Morec0]

Interesting aspect. You might even convince me...

 

A question. According to you, a suit is specific to a Tenno? As in, they can wear no other suits? Can they even survive out of their suit?

 

The appearance of the un-Warframed Tenno  captives and the Tenno in pods suggests they can, or at least there there are more general types of "lesser-frames" that can keep them alive (those being the dark suits the captives and guys in the pod wear). But yeah, each suit is specific to the Tenno - Ember can't wear Excalibur, Vauban can't wear Rhino.

 

 

We know from the construction materials that the Warframes require Technocyte material to make.

Also each 'frame has a specific "style" often reminiscent of something from old Earth.

 

I believe this is because the Orokin are the remnants of the Dark-sector-era Lotus organisation who left earth before or during the first technocyte apocalypse. They researched the living metal and rendered it safe and usable as a technological component, this is forma. They rebuilt their bodies in (or "infected" them selves with) the golden forma, rendering them immortal and raising them above the humanity they re-created after the fall of the Earth. When they created the Warframes they did so using similar technology as they had used upon themselves, but ensuring that it remained separate so that the "Tenno" were still dependent on the Orokin for repairs and production of Warframes.

 

Why am I saying all of this when it doesn't seem relevant?

 

Well I believe that the nature of forma as a derivative of old-earth technocyte living metal dictates some of it's usage, and the "design" of Warframes is 1 part technological know-how and 9 parts the intention and nature of those involved, hence the echo's of old-earth where the Orokin found suitable ideas for the Warframes of the first few Tenno.

 

tl;dr, Technocyte gubbins forms shapes based on feelings and concepts over pure mechanical design, Orokin had memories of old-earth hence: Pirate, Sapper, Bird, Rhino, Ninja, Templar, and Hayden Tenno.

 

The issue is: did that kind of technology to leave earth and stay having left earth exist in that time frame of the Dark Sector game? Nothing seems to suggest that it does.

 

This thread, though, isn't about the Orokin. There are other threads for that.

[Vheraun]

Interesting enough. I think you managed to change a stubborn person's opinion, Morec0. Congratulations :3

[SilentMobius]

The opinions that I've seen state that there are individual Tenno born (awoken) with each set of powers, not multiples.

 

Every new player starts the game with a Tenno wearing an Excalibur Warframe. After the intro, Vor damages your Warframe hence you are offered a replacement from the basic three. Before the codex the following lore was made available to you after completing the intro.

 

You were right, the Tenno threat is real. We found one drifting near Pluto but the Lotus knew we were coming. She purged the Cryo moments before we had them and sent a squad of Tenno to break our assault.

They escaped. We are working on tracing them. Separate this Tenno from the flock and it should be easy to kill. We shattered its Warframe and expect such an abrupt Cryo purge will have damaged its memories.

 

We anxiously await punishment for failing this task.

 

Regardless where you stand on a player controlling one or many Tenno I think it's definitely intended that our Tenno can change Warframes.

Edited April 7, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Morec0]

Every new player starts the game with a Tenno wearing an Excalibur Warframe. After the intro, Vor damages your Warframe hence you are offered a replacement from the basic three. Before the codex the following lore was mad available to you after completing the intro.

 

 

 

 

Regardless where you stand on a player controlling one or many Tenno I think it's definitely intended that our Tenno can change Warframes.

 

Interesting evidence, makes me wonder. But I still don't think that quite means they CAN change, though. Could just be you pick up a new character - like playing Ash in the LoL tutorial but then moving on to play other champions. There doesn't seem to suggest anything that the Excalibur changes out to another frame. We'll need stronger evidence to settle that.

[SilentMobius]

The issue is: did that kind of technology to leave earth and stay having left earth exist in that time frame of the Dark Sector game? Nothing seems to suggest that it does.

 

This thread, though, isn't about the Orokin. There are other threads for that.

 

They had enough tech to build the proto-excalibur such that Hayden could wear it, also we don't know how long it took for the Earth to fall assuming things plaid out similar to DS.

[Vheraun]

Aw damn, back to square one. Everything settles down to needing more lore.

[Morec0]

They had enough tech to build the proto-excalibur such that Hayden could wear it, also we don't know how long it took for the Earth to fall assuming things plaid out similar to DS.

 

Suits =/= long-term space travel, especially when dealing with something as different as nanotech/biowarfare tech. This is a WW2 era technology we're talking about, with a slight SciFi twist - that sole twist being the Technocyte. We just need more lore, in the end.

[SilentMobius]

Interesting evidence, makes me wonder. But I still don't think that quite means they CAN change, though. Could just be you pick up a new character - like playing Ash in the LoL tutorial but then moving on to play other champions. There doesn't seem to suggest anything that the Excalibur changes out to another frame. We'll need stronger evidence to settle that.

 

Well given that LoL has explicit lore on "The summoner" and yet there is no such construct anywhere in Warframe, the Lotus always addresses us as Tenno in the singular ("You", "Your" regardless of currently equipped Warframe), and it would be a stretch to even suggest that this addressing a group of Tenno given we have explicit terms for the 2-4 Tenno group (Cell) Multi-Tenno affiliations "Clan" and yet nothing even mentioned regarding this group who share weapons, mastery, the Lotus addresses as a single individual but who never work together.

 

No, IMHO it is much more likely that we are misreading lore than DE is incapable of constructing multi-character game mechanics and in-game dialogue.

 

IMHO that the Excalibur and Ember codex are referring to a specific set of the _first_ Tenno, in that they are positing the origin of the powers that are now enshrined in the various Warframe lines.

 

AKA the first powers can from the Void via Tenno and were enhanced by unique, custom, Warframes made for those Tenno. Eventually commonalities were found and those void-warped Tenno that expressed no useful personal powers could channel the Void through the copies of the Warframes to express any of the known powers.

 

After all does it sound likely that the Tenno Council have been throwing humans into the void in the hope of eventually finding someone they could bind into an anti-matter Warframe? Or is it more likely that Nova was designed based on existing Warframes. To create a new frame that allows void energy to be channeled into anti-matter production. (If you don't know Nova is not an Orokin Warframe, it was designed in the current era by the Tenno council, ditto Zephyr who was designed after Oxium was found: "Oxium could be the cornerstone of new Warframe design")

[SilentMobius]

Suits =/= long-term space travel, especially when dealing with something as different as nanotech/biowarfare tech. This is a WW2 era technology we're talking about, with a slight SciFi twist - that sole twist being the Technocyte. We just need more lore, in the end.

 

Dark Sector is set _post_ cold war. At least 22 years after the moon landing. And bio-modifying armour is _just_ the sort of thing that could make long term space travel viable. After all, once you're immortal all you need to do is get up there.

Edited April 7, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Arunafeltz]

We'll have to wait and see... wait till it's released.

B-b-but I am wetting myself from excitement. U13 pls

[Morec0]

Well given that LoL has explicit lore on "The summoner" and yet there is no such construct anywhere in Warframe, the Lotus always addresses us as Tenno in the singular ("You", "Your" regardless of currently equipped Warframe), and it would be a stretch to even suggest that this addressing a group of Tenno given we have explicit terms for the 2-4 Tenno group (Cell) Multi-Tenno affiliations "Clan" and yet nothing even mentioned regarding this group who share weapons, mastery, the Lotus addresses as a single individual but who never work together.

 

No, IMHO it is much more likely that we are misreading lore than DE is incapable of constructing multi-character game mechanics and in-game dialogue.

 

IMHO that the Excalibur and Ember codex are referring to a specific set of the _first_ Tenno, in that they are positing the origin of the powers that are now enshrined in the various Warframe lines.

 

AKA the first powers can from the Void via Tenno and were enhanced by unique, custom, Warframes made for those Tenno. Eventually commonalities were found and those void-warped Tenno that expressed no useful personal powers could channel the Void through the copies of the Warframes to express any of the known powers.

 

After all does it sound likely that the Tenno Council have been throwing humans into the void in the hope of eventually finding someone they could bind into an anti-matter Warframe? Or is it more likely that Nova was designed based on existing Warframes. To create a new frame that allows void energy to be channeled into anti-matter production. (If you don't know Nova is not an Orokin Warframe, it was designed in the current era by the Tenno council, ditto Zephyr who was designed after Oxium was found: "Oxium could be the cornerstone of new Warframe design")

 

The Lore of the Summoners, at this point, is REALLY tenuous. The Fields of Justice and Institute are pretty much replaced with a kind of weird Heroes of the Storm-like nexus hub multiverse thing. I don't' even get it at this point. Regardless, I return to the LoL example because it's the one the Dev's used, I prefer the WoW as the method of explanation myself.

 

And why wouldn't the Lotus refer to the Tenno as singular regardless of frame? It's not like there are multiple Tenno in one frame, and Tenno itself IS used as a plural noun ("Tennos" doesn't exist, despite people's usage of it) and "you" and "your" can also be used to refer to multiple people - as well as "you've", which is also used. Ever bit of in-game talk can be addressed to the larger squad, as far as I've seen. The only difference seems to be the anniversary notice, but even then that can be read as a message to Tenno as a whole.

 

And you're starting to take MASSIVE fan leaps, good sir. You're putting words in, not taking words out. Commonalities? Where are those talked about? How are those suggested?

 

As for the new frames - Nova, Zephyr - you seem to be forgetting the Tenno in the pods that AREN'T armored, the Tenno rescue targets that don't have frames on. Frames can be worn into the Pods, the Tutorial Excalibur proved that. So why didn't these? Unless they hadn't been given frames, yet. Why? Were there simply not frames to go around? Maybe, we do build more, after all. Or, maybe, frames for their powers hadn't been built yet? The women who became Nova and Zephyr and all the other new frames, they simply hadn't been designed by the Orokin or the Tenno yet.

 

Or, maybe, they're younger Tenno? We have no reason to believe the Tenno are sexless - hell, Saryn and Rhino attest to the idea that they aren't - and when creatures have sexes - and they're still human, however twisted they are - they breed. And when you mate a lion with a tiger, you don't a lion OR a tiger, you get a liger, you get something NEW. Throw in the unknown nature of the Void and you can get something VERY new. Hence new Tenno, not yet outfitted with frames before the falll, ordered into cryosleep by the Lotus before they could be designed. Or, as I suggested above, Tenno from the ship lost in the Void, not yet having their frames designed by the Orokin or Tenno who designed frames, ordered into cryosleep by the Lotus before they could get any.

 

 

Dark Sector is set _post_ cold war. At least 22 years after the moon landing. And bio-modifying armour is _just_ the sort of thing that could make long term space travel viable. After all, once you're immortal all you need to do is get up there.

 

Yes, get up there - and have a reasonable means to produce food to sustain yourself, energy to sustain life support, ect? That's a big question. Of course, do we even KNOW the Lotus was an organization? Here's what we know about it: in Dark Sector it was the mark for a black market dealer, one black market dealer, in Warframe it's the name of a presumably A.I. Mission Opperator for the Tenno, one mission operator.

 

The "Lotus is an organization" theory doesn't have any backing.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Morec0

[Temfist]

I get why his name is Hydroid, but it's not a solid character name in most regards, and sounds more like a pun on some form of water robot, even if it's a term in zoology concerning fresh water  predators in the jelly fish family. I guess I'm more surprised they didn't try to go with an octopus themed name, like "Kraken" or something.

 

anyway, Hydroid will grow on me, it's just not what I expected.

[SilentMobius]

And you're starting to take MASSIVE fan leaps, good sir. You're putting words in, not taking words out.

 

I think you need to put in a lot _more_ words in to come up with this magical group of Tenno who share guilt, mastery, weapon affinity, story progression and soon focus and yet never work together _and_ the "Summoner-esque" entity who is directing them.

 

As I said the options are two fold

 

1: DE have _no_ idea how to write game systems, progression, dialogue or story for character groups and insist on singular with a persistent frame of reference even through "character" changes.

2. We have a single Tenno per account and there is lore regarding the relationship between Tenno and Warframe we don't know yet.

 

IMHO #2 is astronomically more likely.

 

Yes, get up there - and have a reasonable means to produce food to sustain yourself, energy to sustain life support,...

Depends if you need it, as I said once our "emperors" became "cold and gold" we have no idea what their biological needs were.

 

Hence new Tenno, not yet outfitted with frames before the falll,

And yet _zero_ mention of these Tenno or their powers, but plenty of mention of the Warframes being designed and abilities relying on construction and materials. You are taking a single piece of lore about one character and applying it to everyone in contradiction with existing game systems and story.

 

As I've said, I think the current "fan understanding" of the Ember and Excalibur codex is much more likely to be flawed given their vague nature. It's easy for us to misunderstand lore, much less likely that DE screwed up huge chunks of their game (Which will get worse if Vor's proze follows the model of the current story, I.E. is player centric not single-tenno-per-warframe centric.