Melee 2.0 Feedback: Megathread (With Template).

[Monolake]

Hi. Ground finisher attack hitbox is still bugged and misses half the time on many weapons (duals, daggers)

[VentiGlondi]

I hope you didn't forget that most of the stances are unfinished.

[Onihikage]

I've played a while with various melee weapons, and my gripes are as follows.

 

1. Instead of actually solving the "mash one button to melee" issue, Melee 2.0 has merely disguised it. The mechanics are STILL "mash one button to melee" and don't actually encourage anything else. 

 

2. The current auto-targeting for melee is awful. Try to punch an enemy that's running full speed away from you - you can't. Even if your Warframe's full speed is way faster than the enemy's, the auto-targeting just drags you along behind them at a distance just slightly too far to actually hit. Melee attacks don't feel like the Tenno sees himself as in battle, dealing death to Grineer dogs, but still in his dojo, practicing katas. In fact, some of the animations feel a little too inspired by basic katas, which are not meant to be simple "take one step forward while swinging weapon" which I see too much of in the current melee attacks.

 

3. Stamina and movement. Am I a tireless space ninja warrior, or a breathless old man who can't swing a sword a few times without having to stop for a moment? It's excusable for Vauban, but Rhino shouldn't feel like that. We need to have WAY more stamina, which doesn't regenerate instantly, and is actually boosted up by certain things such as using abilities and parkour, such that if we really learn our way around the maps, we can still keep up fast and ninja-like movement forever without having to resort to nonsense like Ninja Step'n'Slide. We should be able to build up momentum as we perform chains of stamina-consuming tricks, encouraging their use by reducing the stamina which they drain. Running should ramp up and get faster while consuming less stamina after a few seconds.

 

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Solutions to 1: Two-button system with heavy and light attacks. Hold F to equip melee, E for heavy attack, Mouse 1 for light attack, Mouse 2 for block, R to counter, block + heavy (when not attacking) to toggle channeling, and hold block while attacking to quick-activate channeling.

 

Mid-Air combos! Knock enemies into the air with block + jump, then make light attacks in midair or finish them off with a heavy attack (the current jump attack would be jump + heavy, but jump + light would deal midair attacks that keep the Tenno suspended for a moment).

 

Combos would literally be combos of light and heavy attacks, just as every other successful and fun melee system has ever done. Don't try to reinvent the wheel and do something "uniquely Warframe" by abandoning the tried and true time-tested mechanics that countless other games have utilized. It will always be uniquely Warframe so long as it is (1) actually in Warframe and (2) not a direct ripoff of some other game's control scheme.

 

Solutions to 2: Every other fun hack-and-slash game I've played had mechanics to keep the player character within range of the enemy they're attacking. The Tenno needs to be directed either by movement direction or reticle, and make all the exaggerated movements necessary to stay on target and land every attack. If it's a turret or camera on the ceiling or one of those damned Grineer traps, it shouldn't be difficult to hit (especially with the mid-air combos I brought up before).

 

Solutions to 3: 

A) Significantly more stamina, I mean a lot more. We should never be running out after 5 seconds of anything.

 

B) More nuanced stamina regeneration: Rate increases with the duration of the present regeneration, the amount of stamina present, and what the Tenno is doing - crouching will boost regeneration more than jogging.

 

C) "Momentum" system to encourage players to use stamina-draining parkour and challenge themselves on the battlefield. Damaging enemies with shots/melee/abilities executed during wall-runs/climbs/midair/sliding would restore stamina based on damage dealt and increase the "momentum meter" which would be shown as the stamina meter gradually turning white. Executing multiple successive instances of parkour, such as somersaulting into a wall-run, vaulting off a wall and kicking an enemy, or doing multiple wall-runs, that sort of thing would increase Momentum. More advanced melee combos would both increase Momentum and restore some small percentage of stamina. As Momentum increases, stamina-draining actions will drain less stamina and slow the reduction of Momentum.

 

Get Momentum to 100% (fully white stamina bar), and you'll enter Hyper Mode, where stamina-burning moves will drain no stamina at all for several seconds (duration affected by Warframe level and certain mods), allowing your stamina meter to regenerate even as you melee, parkour, sprint, etc. Health, shields, and energy will all be granted a slow but constant regeneration during Hyper Mode. Momentum is boosted more slowly past 100%, up to 150%, where the white stamina bar begins to pulsate. Once Hyper Mode's duration is over, Momentum will instantly be reduced by 50%, which means if you manage to hit 150% while in Hyper Mode, you will go right back into Hyper Mode!

 

 

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

 

Seriously though, I know that's basically redoing melee AGAIN, and DE will never do it, but I wanted to put it out there. I'd be happy if even one of these problems is addressed - not that I'm unhappy now or anything. It's great now, but it could still be so much better.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Weapon(s) used: Konen Tonfas

Faction(s) fought: All

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Gemini Cross

Thoughts & Experiences: The weapon feels a little...off. The biggest contributing factors to this is the weapon itself. It's hitbox needs to be expanded (one must get too close to strike the enemy). The slide attack loses full momentum halfway through and makes the weapon seem off. Moving forward to attack seems a little stiff (implementing a smidgeon of sliding when attacking forward would be alright).

Execution of the combos is simply too hard to pull off - would recommend a remapping of combat modification key for each attack combo.

Also, the hit box on the weapons seems to be rather small for such large weapons. The hitting area needs to be increased.

Update: After running more time with them, I find that running forward, your character seems to nearly stop often during the second swing if you're holding forward and trying to melee. Also, the stamina consumption truly hinders one from being able to continually press against the enemy. Recommend cutting stamina by 1/2-1/4.

Wall launch is nearly nonexistent as well.

Approximate Time Spent: Over 30 mins

Supplementary Info: Mouse/keyboard combo in coop mission

Edited August 30, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[Dragon-V0942]

Weapon(s) used: Kronen

Faction(s) fought: Corpus

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Gemini Cross Stance, Pressure Point, Berserker, Volcanic Edge, Cold Touch, Life Strike, Reflex Coil, Killing Blow, Rending Strike.

Thoughts & Experiences: by far one of the most bad-@$$ melee weapons EVEN when sheathed thus far.
Still getting rather use to the combos but they seem to be working rather fine to me.
However it's wall-run-launche was really disappointing, Kronen seems to launch at the same speed as any hammer weapon, if not shorter.
And the range of the weapon itself is extremely problematic, but only because of how the "Melee Auto Targeting" works.
The Auto Targeting in my opinion seems to be the biggest thing holding this weapon back because of its range, but this is definitely not the only weapon that sufferes because of this old mechanic.
Example(!): http://youtu.be/x7CGkC-SxjQ

As said in the video, I think it's about time for the targeting to get tweaked, at least so it doesn't restrict players from inching forward.

That's pretty much all I have to say relating to the Kronen.
Thank you again for this awesome weapon. ^.=.^


PS: could someone also look into fixing Valkyrs Hysteria causing Valkyr to permanently switch melee combo animations throughout the entire mission after being used? Edited August 29, 2014 by MicSet

[jjpdn]

Weapon(s) used: Does not apply, as this effects all weapons

Faction(s) fought: Does not apply

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Does not apply

Thoughts & Experiences: Aerial units are extremely hard to hit. Suggestion: Add an aerial attack, that can hit above you (ie. cameras, ospreys). 

How: When Tenno is going upwards, pressing E makes the Tenno slash upwards or other wild attack. When Tenno is falling down, does the slam attack we have right now.

Moving towards a direction while not holding the jump key and then pressing E will just do a normal slash forward.
Approximate Time Spent: Started playing last year, december or november.

Supplementary Info: Optional (Mouse/Keyboard? Controller? Coop/solo?)

[KingTaro]

Weapon(s) used: Kronen


Faction(s) fought: Grineer, Corpus, Infested


Mod(s):

Stance: Gemini Cross
Mods:
- Pressure point
- Berserker
- Voltaic Strike
- Fever Strike
- Fury
- Virulent Scourge
- Jagged Edge
- Reach


Thoughts & Experiences:

The wall attack is bugged. It feels like there is an invisible barrier infront of you stopping you as you're flying off the wall.



Also, the Reach mod doesn't increase the range by 60%. (This seems to apply to pretty much every weapon except for polearm).

The Kronen range is around 2.4 meters on the normal attack and only around 3.1 meters with the Reach mod. While it should have been around 3.8 (almost 4).
The weapon also needs an increased range in general. The range feels shorter than the actual weapon when you're landing hits with the long blade. Especially noticeable during its slide animation.


Approximate Time Spent: Around 3 to 5 hours.


Supplementary Info: Mouse & Keyboard

[LightstealKnight]

Weapon(s) used: 

A large variety by now

Faction(s) fought:
All of them

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used:

A large variety by now

Thoughts & Experiences:
 

I looked more at game-play rather than damage and was very disappointed (I am sorry to those that worked so hard on the system)

 

It is awkward to go into and out of melee mode.  (which should not be required. In order to take full advantage of melee, technically as long as you are spamming E and your weapon is out, you are in melee mode)

 

It is hard to know what kind of aerial attack will be performed (spin, dash, or slam) beforehand.  

 

Stances take a lot of practice to master, which cannot be done during play [bad game design].  The main reason for this is that most play is not done in melee mode and you cannot practice stances with a gun equipped.

It would also be useful if there were some animation provided during the combo where a button is being held down.

 

Blocking seems to be a very useful ability but is currently only useful against gunfire while running and gap-closing, or against special boss attacks.  

 

Channeling attacks are great, but only usable when in the rarely used melee stance.

 

I did find an improvement in game-play when playing as ASH or LOKI in stealth mode.  It is also useful when using BANSHEE with during her silence ability duration and Rhino with his skin up and VALKYR in her Rage mode.

 

All things considered, the old melee mode provided much more fluid game-play.

 

Approximate Time Spent:

100s of hours

Supplementary Info: Mouse/Keyboard