I Love It, But... Please Address This Issue

[Gaiters]

Everyone plays differently, I have met with 'thatguy' who doesn't contribute at all and just runs to the end.

Playing my way does not force anyone to do anything AFAIK, it does force a mission end, and I do believe that if someone is dead they don't get the rewards.(I think this is to prevent someone from joining and going afk).

Yeah well, like I said I'm usually with people who play like I do, my brother and I play online and allow people to join, my connection, my show.

Edited April 5, 2013 by ZEDD

[Tsukinoki]

Yeah well, like I said I'm usually with people who play like I do, my brother and I play online and allow people to join, my connection, my show.

I can completely agree with that.

If you and your brother/friend decide to play and rush then the people who join you should play along and keep up.

Its when there are 2 or 3 people who want to take logner killing enemies to increase mod drops and mat drops and such and someone jumps in and forces the mission to end in an extraction when the other players dont want to that we are having most of the issues with.

Especially when the timer is running out and you are running to the exit knowing you wont make it there in the next 3 seconds, and you kill an enemy and have it drop a mod only for the force extraction to occur before you can get over to it.

[Gaiters]

I still peg that under "S#&$-happens", I'm not against people getting groups that they like, or hating on someone, I'm against the dev's forcing a certain playstyle. The only thing they need to do is have the objective completed, and whoever is at the end finishes when they get there, similar to the way the new defence missions work(the vote out system). More double doors and 'speed traps' are not the answer. :)

"Exit now?" instead of a countdown timer would work wonders. But then, anyone who died mid mission would not be able to complete.

Edited April 5, 2013 by ZEDD

[Tsukinoki]

I still peg that under "S#&$-happens", I'm not against people getting groups that they like, or hating on someone, I'm against the dev's forcing a certain playstyle. The only thing they need to do is have the objective completed, and whoever is at the end finisheds when they get there, similar to the way the new defence missions work(the vote out system). More double doors and 'speed traps' are not the answer. :)

Implementing that would solve a lot of issues and still allow people to take their time and get there when they want without having to worry that they are going to miss out on killing the enemies they want to. The only missions that I dont see this working for is spy missions, where you dont have to worry about rushers anyway with how its designed, and deception missions, at least half way through the deception missions, and mobile defense missions.

[Kanaris]

Someone joining a game in progress is a bit different from someone who joins a squad and randomly rushes (I see it all the time).

I think it's rather unethical to host a public game catering to a certain style when we don't have the ability to indicate as much. If you could host a game called "TITANIA RUSHERS HERE" and we could single it out, that would be great, but we can't. And anyway, people won't know you're the host until after the match they just joined, so your claim that it's your 'show' is pretentious.

If the (vast) majority of rushers could rush and get the most kills - consistently - that wouldn't be as bad. This is almost never the case, however.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Kanaris

[Gaiters]

There is nothing unethical about playing a game. It is however unethical to be controling and manipulative.

[Tsukinoki]

There is nothing unethical about playing a game. It is however unethical to be controling and manipulative.

We can agree there.

It would be a lot better IMO if when a player joined a group before the mission starts he actually asks what type of run they are doing instead of figuring out that they are just going to rush it regardless of how the group wants to play the mission.

And while joining in the middle of a match is quite a bit different in that regard as to figuring out what type of play style is happening, maybe actually paying some attention and going: "Hmm, I seem to be ending up 3 to 5 rooms ahead of the rest of the group constatly...maybe I should slow down just a bit to let them catch up."

[Xen0sys]

I still peg that under "S#&$-happens", I'm not against people getting groups that they like, or hating on someone, I'm against the dev's forcing a certain playstyle. The only thing they need to do is have the objective completed, and whoever is at the end finishes when they get there, similar to the way the new defence missions work(the vote out system). More double doors and 'speed traps' are not the answer. :)

"Exit now?" instead of a countdown timer would work wonders. But then, anyone who died mid mission would not be able to complete.

More double doors are actually a great solution to single show rushers. If two people are rushing, no problem - they open it when they get there. 50/50 stays 50/50.

[Tsukinoki]

"Exit now?" instead of a countdown timer would work wonders. But then, anyone who died mid mission would not be able to complete.

Make it so that those who died had an option to finish the run as long as someone else has already finished?

They would have "Forfit" and "Revive" and then once someone else has been extracted it would change to "Extract" or "Complete".

That would avoid that problem as well.

[Kanaris]

There is nothing unethical about playing a game. It is however unethical to be controling and manipulative.

Actually, it is unethical to intentionally make a public game that caters to one playstyle given the current circumstances and being aware of that limitation on others. You are not the only person(s) playing Warframe.

More double doors are actually a great solution to single show rushers. If two people are rushing, no problem - they open it when they get there. 50/50 stays 50/50.

This. Do want.

[Aggh]

More double doors are actually a great solution to single show rushers. If two people are rushing, no problem - they open it when they get there. 50/50 stays 50/50.

Then when someone lags out, afks, decides to troll, has some kind of tech failure etc. etc. it's pretty much ensured that you'll have to abort the mission. That sounds like FUN. Not to mention the fact that it will slow down the pace of gameplay no matter how anyone in the room wants to play.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[parkel]

Then when someone lags out, afks, decides to troll, has some kind of tech failure etc. etc. it's pretty much ensured that you'll have to abort the mission. That sounds like FUN. Not to mention the fact that it will slow down the pace of gameplay no matter how anyone in the room wants to play.

1: Lags out = disconnection = you will be put in a solo game.

2: I rarely see anyone afk at all.

3: Trolling by what? Rushing ahead?

4: Tech failure = computer shutdown/something else = disconnection = you will be put in a solo game.

And tell me more about how double doors slow the pace of the game down if the team moves together.

[Aggh]

1: Lags out = disconnection = you will be put in a solo game.

2: I rarely see anyone afk at all.

3: Trolling by what? Rushing ahead?

4: Tech failure = computer shutdown/something else = disconnection = you will be put in a solo game.

And tell me more about how double doors slow the pace of the game down if the team moves together.

1.) And during the time that the game hasn't realized this yet and you have to wait for them to DC before you can progress through the level? You're stuck waiting with the nothing to do. Sounds like fun. And what if they're just teleporting all over the place and walking into walls and never DC?

2,) Then you haven't played much.

3.) Or you know, just deciding to stand around and do nothing while you wait for someone to help open the door.

4.) Same issue as #1. DCs don't happen instantly. And not all tech failure causes you to disconnect. What if their mouse stops working? Or they have a video driver failure? What if their screen stops working? What if they spill coffee on their keyboard?

These are all problems that happen with the double doors as they are now. They will just be exacerbated if more of them are introduced to the game.

Because you have to pause and press the buttons. Each successive door means that you'll have to stop and waste time opening a door. This slows down progression through the level and thus slows down the pace of gameplay. Something the devs have said they're opposed to btw.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[parkel]

1.) And during the time that the game hasn't realized this yet and you have to wait for them to DC before you can progress through the level? You're stuck waiting with the nothing to do. Sounds like fun.

2,) Then you haven't played much.

3.) Or you know, just deciding to stand around and do nothing while you wait

4.) Same issue as #1

Because you have to pause and press the buttons. Each successive door means that you'll have to stop and waste time opening a door.

1: Network connections are cut immediately, meaning once a player decides to severe the connection, either incidentally or intentionally, the user gets pulled from the servers, and hence, disconnection. If you're talking about server instability causing disconnections, I have never experienced that before. The servers are stable as hell for a game in open beta.

And no, the game will not notice that the player has not disconnected. You'll just be dumped into a solo game pretty much seamlessly, just as how host changes happen (pretty much) seamlessly as well.

2: I have a total play time of 50+ hours, having 270 missions completed, 12 failed and 20 quit. That being called "not playing much"? I daresay I have played enough to know 80% of the tilesets inside out. Never mind that, but I have never seen an afk person before. Not even once.

3: That's called afking. Moot point.

4: See explanation in point 1.

[Gaiters]

More double doors are actually a great solution to single show rushers. If two people are rushing, no problem - they open it when they get there. 50/50 stays 50/50.

That is a solution to a problem that does not exist. Maybe I should make a thread about how the devs need to speed other players up, kinda like mario works, don't keep up and you auto die and teleport to the fastest guy. Halo co-op works like that, get left behind and you will be teleported.

[Aggh]

1: Network connections are cut immediately, meaning once a player decides to severe the connection, either incidentally or intentionally, the user gets pulled from the servers, and hence, disconnection. If you're talking about server instability causing disconnections, I have never experienced that before. The servers are stable as hell for a game in open beta/

LOL. There are no servers. The game is p2p. If you've never had a bad host that just means you've been lucky.

And no, the game will not notice that the player has not disconnected. You'll just be dumped into a solo game pretty much seamlessly, just as how host changes happen (pretty much) seamlessly as well.

You've obviously never seen a failed host migration. Again, lucky.

2: I have a total play time of 50+ hours, having 270 missions completed, 12 failed and 20 quit. That being called "not playing much"? I daresay I have played enough to know 80% of the tilesets inside out. Never mind that, but I have never seen an afk person before. Not even once.

Oh look, you haven't played much.

3: That's called afking. Moot point.

Not if they're still at their keyboard and are just doing it to &!$$ you off.

4: See explanation in point 1.

You mean the explanation based on ignorance and/or just your personal experience? Also, what about hardware failures that don't DC the player?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[Tsukinoki]

That is a solution to a problem that does not exist. Maybe I should make a thread about how the devs need to speed other players up, kinda like mario works, don't keep up and you auto die and teleport to the fastest guy. Halo co-op works like that, get left behind and you will be teleported.

Actually it is an issue otherwise this thread would never have been created.

Plus that just leads to killing something, seeing a mod drop, running after that mod and getting teleported to the rusher because you exceed that magical boundry zone and you dont get the mod. Why should you be punished/forced to rush the mission because some random person joined your three man group and decided "Hey, Im going to rush and finish this mission because thse guys aren't playing right".

[Aggh]

Actually it is an issue otherwise this thread would never have been created.

Plus that just leads to killing something, seeing a mod drop, running after that mod and getting teleported to the rusher because you exceed that magical boundry zone and you dont get the mod. Why should you be punished/forced to rush the mission because some random person joined your three man group and decided "Hey, Im going to rush and finish this mission because thse guys aren't playing right".

Nice logic. There's also a thread asking for first person view. Obviously since a thread was made about it, the lack of first person view is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[Tsukinoki]

Nice logic. There's also a thread asking for first person view. Obviously since a thread was made about it, the lack of first person view is an issue that needs to be addressed.

There is a difference between an "issue" and a feature request.

Stop trolling.

[Aggh]

There is a difference between an "issue" and a feature request.

Stop trolling.

Well to that guy it's an issue that there isn't a first person view. The lack of the feature is an issue. Stop looking at what other people see as an issue with such biased eyes please.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[Gaiters]

Actually it is an issue otherwise this thread would never have been created.

Plus that just leads to killing something, seeing a mod drop, running after that mod and getting teleported to the rusher because you exceed that magical boundry zone and you dont get the mod. Why should you be punished/forced to rush the mission because some random person joined your three man group and decided "Hey, Im going to rush and finish this mission because thse guys aren't playing right".

I mean to say the number of doors does not need to be increased. The issue is people feel forced, that they need to 'get to extraction', the issue isn't people are leaving other people behind.

[Tsukinoki]

Well to that guy it's an issue that there isn't a first person view. The lack of the feature is an issue. Stop looking at what other people see as an issue with such biased eyes please.

I would say that you are quite biased yourself because you feel that its perfectly fine to rush a mission when the party does not want to rush and force an extraction on them. How about you take a step back and try not be biased by thinking about it from their perspective, hmm?

[Aggh]

I would say that you are quite biased yourself because you feel that its perfectly fine to rush a mission when the party does not want to rush and force an extraction on them. How about you take a step back and try not be biased by thinking about it from their perspective, hmm?

I've never denied my bias :|

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[parkel]

@Aggh

You don't know networking. Even though this game runs on p2p connection, every single host has to create a mini server (just like how lobby based shooters work) to host for 3 others and himself. That's the server I'm referring to. Otherwise, how else would the host connect to 3 other players? Open ports and actively allow other people from all over the world into your own network just to play Warframe online? How dumb is that?

I have seen a failed host migration before. But that disconnected everyone, meaning the hosted server no longer exists.

That's why I said it *pretty much* happens seamlessly.

I'm not here to argue with someone for the amount of time I invested in this game, nor how many missions I have played, nor how many warframes I have. Even someone who plays for an hour can be a team player, just like someone who has played for 70 hours can be a total jerk in games.

And who the bloody hell would stand in front of a double door to stare at it? People go into missions to play, not to troll. Which blockhead would go into a mission just to stand in front of double doors to waste his own electricity and time? Another moot point, sir.

Also, that's not based on personal experience, rather, based on what I am currently studying, a diploma in network engineering. And please tell me what kind of hardware failures would not cause a disconnection? Let me see....

1) RAM failure - BSOD

2) Harddisk failure - you won't even get internet.

3) Graphics card failure - see RAM failure

4) Router/Modem failure - that obviously disconnects you.

5) CPU power failure - see harddisk failure/router/modem failure

6) ISP satellite blows up - see Router/Modem failure

Need I list more?

Unless of course you're talking about smaller hardware failures like:

1) Monitor failure

2) Keyboard failure

3) Mouse failure

The above ones don't happen often. It's not like out of 10 rounds, 8 rounds someone has a broken keyboard/mouse/monitor.

[Aggh]

@Aggh

You don't know networking. Even though this game runs on p2p connection, every single host has to create a mini server (just like how lobby based shooters work) to host for 3 others and himself. That's the server I'm referring to. Otherwise, how else would the host connect to 3 other players? Open ports and actively allow other people from all over the world into your own network just to play Warframe online? How dumb is that?

No one calls the host in a p2p game a server. Where have you been the last couple decades? In games, the term server is used almost exclusively to refer to a dedicated server.

I have seen a failed host migration before. But that disconnected everyone, meaning the hosted server no longer exists.

That's why I said it *pretty much* happens seamlessly.

Except that the game can hang for a solid 5 minutes after that.

I'm not here to argue with someone for the amount of time I invested in this game, nor how many missions I have played, nor how many warframes I have. Even someone who plays for an hour can be a team player, just like someone who has played for 70 hours can be a total jerk in games.

Good for you. 50 hours in a single individual's experience is not a representative sample.

And who the bloody hell would stand in front of a double door to stare at it? People go into missions to play, not to troll. Which blockhead would go into a mission just to stand in front of double doors to waste his own electricity and time? Another moot point, sir.

A TROLL WOULD. WELCOME TO THE INTERNET AND VIDEO GAMES. HOLY S#&$.

Also, that's not based on personal experience, rather, based on what I am currently studying, a diploma in network engineering. And please tell me what kind of hardware failures would not cause a disconnection? Let me see....

1) RAM failure - BSOD

2) Harddisk failure - you won't even get internet.

3) Graphics card failure - see RAM failure

4) Router/Modem failure - that obviously disconnects you.

5) CPU power failure - see harddisk failure/router/modem failure

6) ISP satellite blows up - see Router/Modem failure

Need I list more?

Unless of course you're talking about smaller hardware failures like:

1) Monitor failure

2) Keyboard failure

3) Mouse failure

The above ones don't happen often. It's not like out of 10 rounds, 8 rounds someone has a broken keyboard/mouse/monitor.

You've never unplugged something by accident or spilled something on your keyboard? It happens to people all the time. You're talking about a game with thousands of people playing, the chances of something like that not happening and ruining your game are not nearly as small as you'd like to think.

And what about driver failures? I guess you've never had a video driver failure, ever. The point is that things go wrong all the time that don't DC people.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh