0% Tax The Unwritten Code Of The Tenno

[Niryco]

Somehow people still won't realize that DS are there for the mod drops and XP. DE specifically designed the tax/repair system this way so that the final outcome of things are balanced.

You want creds and mats? There are other places to go. If DS were to provide the same, or even more, than other nodes, why would anyone bother going to said nodes except for a certain -that-node-only- drop?

 

I have to say this, the system is an auto balancing system which requires little player consideration, it is a simple yes or no option for tax. If no perpetual imbalance is in place to force clans to always actively make conflicting decisions, they would would always tax everything at 0% given they get to own the node and be seen as a good clan, which is what everyone wants.

[Wiegraf]

Time to spoonfeed.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Sector_Missions

Always infested, so you don't have to wait days for that infested invasion. Also easy punchbags.

XP boost goes from 10% to 35%, or 25% to 75% with the weapon required

 

There's a kind of irony, when you think about it, on how the Dark Sectors are the mean to bring back Infested missions back to the Star Chart... only to then be locked behind the community's egoism through contesting Solar Rails.

 

Basically, we're our own enemy in not allowing set Infested nodes to be available.

[TsukiSui]

I have to say this, the system is an auto balancing system which requires little player consideration, it is a simple yes or no option for tax. If no perpetual imbalance is in place to force clans to always actively make conflicting decisions, they would would always tax everything at 0% given they get to own the node and be seen as a good clan, which is what everyone wants.

Too bad perfect world doesn't exist and people will always fk themselves up. There are too many people involved for your win-win solution, hence the auto balance design DE has for DS will always kick in, resulting in frequent conflicts. Now if conflicts weren't rush coptering all the way to press 4 panels, it could've been good.

 

 

There's a kind of irony, when you think about it, on how the Dark Sectors are the mean to bring back Infested missions back to the Star Chart... only to then be locked behind the community's egoism through contesting Solar Rails.

 

Basically, we're our own enemy in not allowing set Infested nodes to be available.

Er blame DE for that I guess.

[Niryco]

Too bad perfect world doesn't exist and people will always fk themselves up. There are too many people involved for your win-win solution, hence the auto balance design DE has for DS will always kick in, resulting in frequent conflicts. Now if conflicts weren't rush coptering all the way to press 4 panels, it could've been good.

 

 

Er blame DE for that I guess.

Well if conflicts are bound to happen whether or not there is a win-win given that there are a few thousand clans and 20 nodes.

[Shusuke-Syndicate]

Everyone talks about taxes and battlepay, but let's all ignore that for now and look at a rail and a node to it's core before we make any judgement calls:

- A node needs a rail to be accessed. Rail needs to be researched and constructed. This costs materials and cedits that can be easily gathered by all the clan and alliance members in a short period of time.

- Once open all players are able to access the node's mission and it's bonusses.

- A rail does not receive damage on it's own in it's current setup, meaning that the only cost a rail has comes from the research and construction of one. Past this point a rail is completely self sustaining and free of costs.

 

Still ignoring taxes, what value does owning a node have for a clan/alliance? 

Status, nothing else.

 

Why would a clan/alliance attack a a node in this setup? You gain nothing from it and only cause the node to lock out. You are just replacing a free rail with your own rail just to have a status symbol.

I know alot of clans desire that, but why? Game is all about co-op, the Tenno are all about co-op. Why would you attack one of your own?

Adding taxes back in this formulation, the taxes earned can only be used on the rail. Rail only needs it when it get's damaged. Or when another clan attacks, the taxes can be used as battlepay.

The battlepay can never be equal to what the node can earn an individual player.That would require taxes of well above 40%. Chances are noone will use a node with that tax level.  So as in individual player ( now basicly has become a mercenary ), choosing a clan to side with will never earn you anything good in comparison what you could have earned on the node itself. What ever you earn in taxes, you would loose again in battlepay and repairs. So a clan doesnt profit either. And an oopposing clan needs to add their own funds to support their battlefees. Wich they could have kept for themselves. Or not challenge the node at all and just earn credits,materials and experience during that mission.

The values remain the same wether or not you add taxes.

Best value ofcourse would be no taxes and no conflict. Wich as we can see, is highly unlikely as every other clan wants a status symbol. And because we " can ".

Fighting another clan is counter productive in everyway. Battlefee's are to low, the mission itself net's no extra or good xp and timewise its highly inefficient

Just because you can attack another clan, doesn't mean you should.

We are Tenno, we are supposed to stand united, not rival amongst eachother. 

Not to sound like a broken record but the tax can be used on other stuff outside of the repair / battle pay. A example would be for clans that want to remodel a dojo or add onto the dojo they have in place already, if you built say your dojo while ghost and raised up the tier to storm or even higher the remodel can get costly to a point. Credit and Resource can be split between clans in alliance (if solo resource tax just goes into vault) if I'm not mistaken so, that is one reason and use. Right now solar rails are just a way to get your clan / alliance's name out there good or bad but, the system is still new and might be tweaked / added onto which will make it more worth wild to own. Even though they are in conflict or will be at least for the time being back to back intil things die down... no conflict would make the dark sectors in a way replace void of course minus the blueprints and parts and forma, oh and ya no key req.

 

@ Wie it's the internet and a online game so egos will be in place regardless.

[Zhoyzu]

I agree, Their is no maintenance cost for having a free rail on a node UNLESS it's attacked. That means the entire community can benefit from that node. 

Can anyone explain to me the benefit for having a node even with, lets say, 10% tax? I've read in other posts that you can't withdraw tax funds from the vault, only to repair your rail. Contesting nodes seems a bit pointless to me.

and because people wont stop attacking them there is no point to having it in the first place. 0 tax on an agreement that who gives a S#&$ lets kill some infested would be good. but until people realize dark sectors were dead content form day 1  we should tax the S#&$ out of people who want pvp. LOL

[Farris]

With  the dark sector nodes almost being universally taxed at 0%  this seem to be the unspoken agreement .

 

 

THIS IS A GREAT THING !!!

 

The warframe  community  is without exception  one of the best of all the online games . Any and I mean any  player can ask  any player for help and almost without  fail they will help them out .

 

 If i where to poll the all the current players i would be surprised if there was one person in game that hasn't run someone that needed it to a boss / alert . Or even  ran a key ,  just to help some one out . 

 

So it's with great surprise  that  some people want increases taxes and bitter poison rivalry where it's  alliance  vs alliance doing a same map grind war . Some have even  gone  so far as to  call those who want  keep this great cooperative spirit  alive  with keeping the special content as string free as they can "Care bears " even some moderators have used  this term .

 

Warframe is at it's  best when it's every one is working together  , and at it's worst when some breaks off from the group and  kill steals , so why would DE set up a system of people hogging kill zones/ content  .  

 

Hopefully  we can keep to the Unwritten code of the Tenno . Tenno killing Tenno ( if only specter versions ) is a bad idea from head to toe .  

1:Clans/Alliances with 0% Tax rails, can barley afford to offer up 100 Credits as Battle Pay on a contested node

2: Clans/Alliances can't afford the "upkeep" (Repair cost of the rails after they have been contested) This is why there is a Tax system in the first place.

3.A lot of Clan/Alliance members are complaining about that they do not receive battle pay when defending their own Rail (it's there own rail, why would they expect to be paid?) This would be circumvented if the rail was at a lower % tax rate for Clan/Alliance members, then they would have their so called "incentive"

 

All in all, The rails -need- to be Taxed.

Example:

Clan A Has a 10% Tax on the rail, they would get 4k on average per full mission played.

Clan A has 5% Tax on the rail for their Clan members, they would get 2k on average per full mission played.

 

Clan B contests with a Rail at 0% Tax (Public/Clan) and offers 500 in Battle Pay.

Clan A could technically offer more than 500 in Battle Pay, and quite possibly have enough funds for repairs later as well.

If Clan B wins they will soon enough realise that they need to run with higher taxes, due to the fact that they have no money left.

 

It's a new feature, but either the feature needs work, or the players need to adapt, it is not feasible to run a 0% Tax Rail for any period of time.

(Unless you are an alliance of moon clans with mega high Trading post Taxes that monopolize the market *cough*)

 

 

The major issue right now is that everyone wants to own a rail, and that's going to go on for a while.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

With  the dark sector nodes almost being universally taxed at 0%  this seem to be the unspoken agreement .

Nope. Eclipse found out that you simply can't support a rail at 0% taxes. The upkeep costs of rails are simply too high even for a fabulously wealthy alliance like Eclipse to maintain.

[Kartumterek]

Nope. Eclipse found out that you simply can't support a rail at 0% taxes. The upkeep costs of rails are simply too high even for a fabulously wealthy alliance like Eclipse to maintain.

 

 

The piety/benevolence period is already over?

[-Ex-Gamer-]

the Bears clan or alliance in Venus promised 0% tax , they defeated the opposite team and they kept their word.

[SevenLetterKWord]

Nope. Eclipse found out that you simply can't support a rail at 0% taxes. The upkeep costs of rails are simply too high even for a fabulously wealthy alliance like Eclipse to maintain.

Eclipse is taxing rails now?

Pics or it didn't happen.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Knaimhe

[Fate_6]

If it was my choice I would tax the fk outta all y'all. People will have to run that mission eventually given all the conflicts, and even if only one person runs it that's still more profit that 0% tax.

[Farlander]

Unfortunately, I fail to see how the battle pay on these rails could ever be "meaningful."

To be meaningful, people will need to think it's comparable to what dark sectors yield when they're not contested.

That means unless clans can afford to shell out 20,000-30,000 credits PER PLAYER, PER COMPLETION, when it could take literally thousands of clears of that mission, we're talking hundreds of millions here! At the very least, assuming clans paid 20,000 per completion, and pretending for a moment it only takes 1000 clears to crush a rail, that's 20,000,000 right there. But we all know it takes waaaay more than that,

I'd ere on 10,000 clears...you can do the math from there.

 

So I fail to see how anyone could ever afford to drop that many credits on anything. Even if it is a enormous, hulking alliance, 4000 members strong.

Basically, this system only piques my interest in the 24 hours the rails aren't contested.

 

The subtle, 0% tax policy that seems to have sprung up is truly a testament to how gamers have become the emerging pinnacle of the human race, but it also makes me sad. Don't get me wrong, I like the super-powered-infested-if-you-want-something-it-probably-drops-here-Utopian-grinding-zone, but it just makes me feel like the system could have been so...cutthroat...competitive...engaging...

 

I envisioned a large strategy map of rails, battles raging all the time, the victors claiming the spoils. Like...the railroad rush of the old west. Sure, not everyone would profit, the weak would be bruised...a lot...but it would add...something that this game doesn't quite have as of yet... 

 

Oh, well. I've prattled on long enough. At the very least, I'd like to see the conflict phase whittled down to 24 hours, instead of 48. 

Most rail battles are won or lost within the first...2 hours, let alone 48. A bunch of rails had one side just say, "we forfeit" after they saw their own integrity meters plummet within the first few hours of battle. 

 

ACHIEVEMENT GET: "Novelist - Most people do it on paper, you know..."

[fatpig84]

the Bears clan or alliance in Venus promised 0% tax , they defeated the opposite team and they kept their word.

 

I believe most clans have the capability to run 1 rail out of good will at 0%.

Just get every clan or alliance member to throw 1 T3 game earnings into the vault and it can be sustained.

 

The problem with more rails you have, it is much much harder to sustain with personal contributions.

[Rinkosu]

You can be an idealist... or you can use the revenue to maintain your solar rail. Do what you have to do Tenno...

[TsukiSui]

Unfortunately, I fail to see how the battle pay on these rails could ever be "meaningful."

Too bad for you. By its own, obviously some 3k battle pay has no meaning to you. But it's a mean to an end, and that end is a DS with XP multiplier and Infested punchbags for easy mods. People only want to enjoy the later while can't bother themselves to work together to bring down conflicts faster, because they have the same hivemind as you.

[SevenLetterKWord]

To be meaningful, people will need to think it's comparable to what dark sectors yield when they're not contested.

Untrue.

They just need to be comparable to similar rushable missions, like sabotages on the same planet or a void capture.