Reflection Is Killing Conclave.

[roaddogz]

Don't you think it's strange that a rocket blows up in your face and the grineer across the room takes the hit, or you are literally gushing blood yet the enemy who afflicted you is suddenly feeling anemic 

well the rocket is reflected the animation is just not here yet.

[Darkmoone1]

Like seriously...blocking a heavy gunner...it will take your entire stamina...but she will only lose 5% of her HP.

Warriors grip does not help the mitigation of stamina too well?

[Killerdude8]

It really bothers me when players who don't actively do something they are talking about as if they know everything, try to sound like they do.

I've come to the Stunning realization that you do not participate in Conclaves at all, For if you did, This thread would not exist.

[War_Admiral_Adama]

Do you really play conclave?

Blue orbs dropped near your spawn point the moment you spawn & you can even look for them around the map.

or if you're that desperate get an energy siphon & counter-camp till you got energy.

geez, dude. Get creative.

 

There are only two means of getting Energy in Conclave. Quick Thinking + Rage, and picking up energy orbs. People will camp energy orbs with relfection in the corner. When you try to get near they one hit you with melee. They use Vacuum on Carrier to get the orbs to them. 

 

I cannot believe you think I didn't know energy orbs spawn on the map. Like GG. 

[dchylde999]

It really bothers me when players who don't actively do something they are talking about as if they know everything, try to sound like they do.

i dont actively conclave... but i play a LOT of WF and have tested games for years (professionally 10+ years).  I went into conclave and and played like Mr. Reflection.  My homie had no problem figuring out how to kill me within a couple minutes of me standing in a corner holding block.  It really bothers me when people call for nerfs and say nothing works when there are plenty of ways around the crappy pvper holding block an entire match.

 

Edit.... fixed spelling

Edited April 16, 2014 by dchylde999

[War_Admiral_Adama]

I've come to the Stunning realization that you do not participate in Conclaves at all, For if you did, This thread would not exist.

K Edited April 16, 2014 by Lynches

[Hawner]

The best Conclave players frustrated because someone only block attacks with melee... And here I though I was bad at PVP.

 

First of all, Reflect is intended to use in PvE, and for that it's perfect. If DE nerfs it the whole block system in this new Melee 2.0 goes to hell, becoming useless and going back to primary and secondary weapons again. So no, don't ask for that.

 

Now, you don't have any ground rules when PVPing at all? There are some frame skills that are too op to be used against one single person. A Rhino with low energy cost can use Stomp for 25 energy, leaving the opponent defenseless. Without any energy orb he can win anything! Do you allow that or do you have a rule about how to use Rhinos in PvP? Either way, make a rule about blocking and how and when you can use it.

 

And last, but not least,.. seriously, you can't win against a player that only blocks? For real? That is a disadvantage for him!! For as long as he is blocking he can't shoot you, so you have lots of options in that case:

 

1. Wait for him to unblock and then shoot. This can happen when he changes to primary in order to shoot, letting you free way to make some holes in his body before he even starts.

2. He can only block incoming damage from the front. So, you should manage to get behind him to deal some damage. If you are indeed some of the best Conclave players, you can figure out how to do it.

3. There are combinations of Melee and Frames that are extremely effective to make enemies "unprotect" themselves for a few seconds. Use that to teach him a lesson.

4. Although it is true that when using weapons like Ogris or Penta you get damaged too when reflected, that is because YOU ARE FIRING IN FRONT OF HIM! nInstead of that try shooting near him (the ground, the wall... anywhere close enough to affect him but so much as to be able to reflect it) so the AoE damage makes its wonders. That can't be reflected.

 

The Reflect combo is not perfect, you can beat it if you play your cards right.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Hawner

[Morec0]

To quote DE:

 

"Conclave is not balanced and never will be."

[War_Admiral_Adama]

Well I had no other way to get this to DE's attention. Too bad i had to post it here. Take care everyone.

 

Please carry on with the comments. Keep it alive. Thanks.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Lynches

[VicAnimus]

well the rocket is reflected the animation is just not here yet.

The explosion takes place in front of you. A friend standing next to you will take damage. And I sincerely doubt there will be an animation for reflecting a rocket that travels at 2 mph

[dchylde999]

Well I had no other way to get this to DE's attention. Too bad i had to post it here. Take care everyone.

 

Please carry on with the comments. Keep it alive. Thanks.

Customer Service is very prompt in responses to player issues.  You have a feedback forum as well.  A bug forum too.  Plenty of other avenues bringing this to DE's attention.

[Veridantus]

There are only two means of getting Energy in Conclave. Quick Thinking + Rage, and picking up energy orbs. People will camp energy orbs with relfection in the corner. When you try to get near they one hit you with melee. They use Vacuum on Carrier to get the orbs to them. 

 

I cannot believe you think I didn't know energy orbs spawn on the map. Like GG. 

......... *facepalm*

They can't camp on both spawn points at the same time if it's 1 on 1..

If it's 2 on 2, you can't take out a single dude on 1 spawn point with the both of you? Reflect only works from front..

[War_Admiral_Adama]

Customer Service is very prompt in responses to player issues.  You have a feedback forum as well.  A bug forum too.  Plenty of other avenues bringing this to DE's attention.

Yeah, thanks.

[tdshooter]

 

EDIT for Clarity. EVERYTHING YOU HIT THEM WITH IS REFLECTED REGARDLESS. There is no way to get around this. We have tried. That is why I'm requesting it be looked at. We would have adapted if it wasn't this broken.

there is one thing that can mess it up i believe reaping spirals jump attack even if blocked hurts the player who is blocking and knocks them down without the attacker taking any dmg

[CelsiusPrime]

I FOUND A SOLUTION!!! Embers' Accelerant doesn't do damage. why not use that to stun them?

[War_Admiral_Adama]

there is one thing that can mess it up i believe reaping spirals jump attack even if blocked hurts the player who is blocking and knocks them down without the attacker taking any dmg

I can't stress it enough. Players are not AI. You cannot plan for combos or stand still. The other player is TRYING TO KILL YOU. They won't just let you combo, you will die before Reaping Spiral is even started.

[War_Admiral_Adama]

I FOUND A SOLUTION!!! Embers' Accelerant doesn't do damage. why not use that to stun them?

Again, Getting the energy for abilities that everyone keeps pushing is not as easy as it sounds. I wish Energy was a regenerative thing. But we have to get orbs for it. Which is not the easiest thing in the world to people who actually Conclave and have good builds.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Lynches

[dchylde999]

I FOUND A SOLUTION!!! Embers' Accelerant doesn't do damage. why not use that to stun them?

Tons of solutions found... Plenty of "reasons" it doesnt work for one of the best conclave groups.  My homies WoF killied me in one hit while I stood there blocking.  Plenty of others have suggested WF powers that get around reflect, but their group is too good to use faceroll weapons.  If i'm playing conclave.... i guarantee i'll attempt every type of stun lock i can pull off to get an advantage against my opponent.

 

Edit:  Another spelling error

Edited April 16, 2014 by dchylde999

[Wiegraf]

To be fair... some of the things you can block reflect is rather ridiculous even in PvE :

 

- Block a rocket, enemy takes the damage and falls over most of the time;

- Block a bleeding proc, enemy starts bleeding;

- Block a Toxic Ancient, enemy poisons itself;

- Block a Grineer Napalm, enemy takes damage and catches fire;

- Block a Corpus Prodman, enemy shocks himself silly;

- Block a Specter Volt's bolt, enemy shocks himself.

 

Reflection should be limited to actual projectiles like bullets, arrows, throwing knives and energy projectiles while returning something like half damage from actual melee attacks. Moreover, projectile weapons like the kunais and arrows shouldn't instantly hit and instead be 'sent back' the way of whoever shot it first. Hitscan weapons would still instantly return damage since the projectile was actually instantaneous. Things like fire and rocket blasts should still damage through; the actual rocket hitting would be blocked but not the explosion.

 

And I mean that in PvE... would make sense that would make it to PvP as well.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Wiegraf

[TwoCrabs]

like scott said, "this game will NEVER be balanced arround conclave" and if you ask me its the absolute right thing to do

[Archistopheles]

They use Vacuum on Carrier to get the orbs to them. 

 

I cannot believe you think I didn't know energy orbs spawn on the map. Like GG. 

 

And you can't kill their sentinel, because blocking obviously protects it, too.

[War_Admiral_Adama]

Tons of solutions found... Plenty of "reasons" it doesnt work for one of the best conclave groups.  My homies WoF killied me in one hit while I stood there blocking.  Plenty of others have suggested WF powers that get around reflect, but their group is too good to use faceroll weapons.  If i'm playing conclave.... i guarantee i'll attempt every type of stun lock i can pull off to get an advantage against my opponent.

 

Edit:  Another spelling error

It's bad practice to use OP stuff. It deteriorates skill and teaches you to handicap yourself.

 

For instance: 

Trinity (Rage+Qt into Blessing, can cast link and kill you no matter where you hide.)

Vauban (All abiltiies last over each round and can spawn kill before you can actually move)

Valkyr (Hysteria, easy to get away from but results in ult looping because she can't be CC'd)

 

Penta

Ogris

 

Things like these are Too easy to use. The Warframes I listed are also Uncounterable right now. There is no way to remove Vaubans utility abilities, No way to get Trinity out of blessing or link. (She can stug or ogris herself for kills). No Way to CC or stop Hysteria but to run. To which she will loop her ult from energy camping. 

Edited April 16, 2014 by Lynches

[Tr1ples1xer]

they will nerf it to hell because of you, so now the whole community can not use it anymore, are you happy ?

[War_Admiral_Adama]

And you can't kill their sentinel, because blocking obviously protects it, too.

What would I do if I had a Sentinel and someone was shooting it? Oh. Jump. Reflect your one bullet, and kill you.

[Darkwave5]

Oh well.

It's just Conclave, It'd be dumber than all hell to Nerf Reflection because of Conclave..

this is what's known as the "WoW Nerf Logic", if it's op in pvp, we nerf it across the board until it's "fair" in pvp and completely useless everywhere else... all the big companies do it so maybe DE should do...