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Glorious Battle And Victory In The Name Of Your Clan [Dark Sector Megathread]

Oizen

By Oizen,
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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted (edited)

In real life your paycheck IS taxed.

 

But how is someone greedy if there is a system that isn't taxing? It's like saying there's a country that doesn't tax (and the rich pay boost the economy) and another country that taxes, say the U.S., attacks this other country. Are the citizens of the first country greedy because they want to defend their tax-free country from the U.S.? It's like Kyte expects players to WANT there to be a tax on Pluto, as if wanting the opposite of 0% tax (read: Eclipse's 25% tax) is the selfless thing to want. And it's an illogical argument.

Edited by AntoineFlemming
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Kazzamo

Kazzamo

Posted
Posted

I'm completely fine with bloody money... just an fyi to any potential employers out there.

 

As am I, I'll take it. I'll support a taxed rail vs a taxed rail. But I won't play a tax rail and add to a warchest. Before anyone calls me out on it or says it yes I fully understand that is greedy. Just because I use the words war profiteer and blood money doesn't make them wrong, it's just being honest about what they are.

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birdei

birdei

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Posted

Yes, yes it is but those taxes have a point aside from paying for blood money. These ones do not.

well thats all there is to do with the taxes in game. There are no other options to do anything except battle pay and rail upkeep.

Also speaking of wanting to keep all your paycheck, I guess all them people who want to tax ceo's even more are evil greedy?

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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
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No, it's not greedy to defend the rail for the precise reason SoV is holding it - to allow people to get all of their mission reward +any other credits they collect. The whole reason there was an argument yesterday is because of this faulty idea that people wanting all of what they gain is greedy. A person earning a paycheck is now greedy because he wants all of it. A person growing some produce is now greedy because he farms it all for himself. It's now greedy to enjoy no taxes, and selfless to want to be taxed. Do you even listen to yourself? You really expect people to believe that they should want Eclipse's 25% tax? Tell me, what is the non-greedy reason to support SoV? Or is supporting SoV now greedy as well?

I'm talking about the dudes that are all "down with eclipse! i want muh 0% rails!"

The rail owners are completely entitle- no, they are required to hold their rails. Otherwise, they wouldn't've grabbed them in first place. Any other reasons are accessory.

And I'm not talking it selfless to want to be taxed, that's silly. You are misconstruing some very funny meanings, here.

Greed is an emotion, an emotion that drives action. Actions cannot be greedy, they merely reflect the desires of the person. Like I said before, Greed Is Not Bad.

 

Neither have I said people should want Eclipse's tax, or anyone's tax. But I am calling many out to their hypocrisy and myopic hatred for Eclipse. They don't want to defend these 0% rails for the sake of the community, their actions have proved as much. I posted the logs earlier. They just want to keep those 0% where it's convenient for them. Daring to claim the higher moral standard is laughable.

 

I wouldn't even be using the word greedy if some [redacted] hadn't used it in the first whinefest post.

 

But how is someone greedy if there is a system that isn't taxing? It's like saying there's a country that doesn't tax (and the rich pay boost the economy) and another country that taxes, say the U.S., attacks this other country. Are the citizens of the first country greedy because they want to defend their tax-free country from the U.S.? It's like Kyte expects players to WANT there to be a tax on Pluto, as if wanting the opposite of 0% tax (read: Eclipse's 25% tax) is the selfless thing to want. And it's an illogical argument.

I am expecting people to expect a tax. This outrage because OMGSHOCKHORROR the tax mechanic is being used is laughable at best.

When Eclipse did their little experiment with taxing members 75% on Seimeni, I was the loudest person in the alliance. But I didn't go crying to DE to nerf the tax rates, nor I stirred up a public outrage. I went, planted my feet to my leaders and said "this is dumb". In this case, if you disagree with Eclipse's taxes, plant your feet and take the nodes away from Eclipse.

 

Also ahahahaha no country is tax free. Countries are supported by their tax yo- I can't afford another warn point. But my intent is implied anyways.

Edited by Kyte
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Kazzamo

Kazzamo

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Posted

Again, taxes in the real world have uses other than blood money. It's an apple and an orange. Stop trying to drag real world things here when they don't apply. Unless they set up Tenno-Care that gives everybody more revives based on its funding or some other social programs there really is nothing to compare this to other than the small amount that pays for the roads and a vastly unneeded military budget.

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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted (edited)

Again, taxes in the real world have uses other than blood money. It's an apple and an orange. Stop trying to drag real world things here when they don't apply. Unless they set up Tenno-Care that gives everybody more revives based on its funding or some other social programs there really is nothing to compare this to other than the small amount that pays for the roads and a vastly unneeded military budget.

Oh man Tenno-Care would be the best idea.

 

In a perfect world everyone would get along, because Prodman owns the rails now.

 

And nobody challenges Prodman.

 

nobody

Someone would try anyways because this game is filled with Less Than Nice Fellows.

Edited by Kyte
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Arlayn

Arlayn

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Posted

How sad people fight for blood money. During the Gradivus Dilemma we fought for the freedom of the people of Mars. To allow women, children, and the elderly a free place to live. Free of Grineer. Because a great leader once said "All sentient beings have a right to freedom" -Optimus Prime

 

I didn't fight for the Corpus for Money. I fought for their children, and freedom...

 

0% taxes is awesome, and if Eclipse took all the solar rails and put them at 25% tax what would be the purpose of Solar rails? None... We would all go to Voids... I have like over a hundred keys as it is...

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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted

I'm talking about the dudes that are all "down with eclipse! i want muh 0% rails!"

The rail owners are completely entitle- no, they are required to hold their rails. Otherwise, they wouldn't've grabbed them in first place. Any other reasons are accessory.

And I'm not talking it selfless to want to be taxed, that's silly. You are misconstruing some very funny meanings, here.

Greed is an emotion, an emotion that drives action. Actions cannot be greedy, they merely reflect the desires of the person. Like I said before, Greed Is Not Bad.

 

Neither have I said people should want Eclipse's tax, or anyone's tax. But I am calling many out to their hypocrisy and myopic hatred for Eclipse. They don't want to defend these 0% rails for the sake of the community, their actions have proved as much. I posted the logs earlier. They just want to keep those 0% where it's convenient for them. Daring to claim the higher moral standard is laughable.

 

I wouldn't even be using the word greedy if some [redacted] hadn't used it in the first whinefest post.

 

I am expecting people to expect a tax. This outrage because OMGSHOCKHORROR the tax mechanic is being used is laughable at best.

When Eclipse did their little experiment with taxing members 75% on Seimeni, I was the loudest person in the alliance. But I didn't go crying to DE to nerf the tax rates, nor I stirred up a public outrage. I went, planted my feet to my leaders and said "this is dumb". In this case, if you disagree with Eclipse's taxes, plant your feet and take the nodes away from Eclipse.

 

Also ahahahaha no country is tax free. Countries are supported by their tax yo- I can't afford another warn point. But my intent is implied anyways.

 

In warframe, there's a 'country' that's tax free and that country is Sechura.

 

The "outrage" that was stirred was because of Eclipse attacking SoV's 0% tax rail, not because Eclipse has 25% tax on all their rails. It's specifically that people didn't want Sechura to go from being a 0% tax node to a 25% tax node, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

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Squig

Squig

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Posted

How sad people fight for blood money. During the Gradivus Dilemma we fought for the freedom of the people of Mars. To allow women, children, and the elderly a free place to live. Free of Grineer. Because a great leader once said "All sentient beings have a right to freedom" -Optimus Prime

 

I didn't fight for the Corpus for Money. I fought for their children, and freedom...

 

0% taxes is awesome, and if Eclipse took all the solar rails and put them at 25% tax what would be the purpose of Solar rails? None... We would all go to Voids... I have like over a hundred keys as it is...

The first time you posted the Optimus shtick it was cute. Now it's just getting old and worn out, like a tire. Please stop using it before you make me hate my childhood more.

 

  Onto the relevant bits, there are -far- more reasons to run Dark Sectors than just credits. I know I know it's mind blowing to realize increased exp has a nice lure to it as well as the fact you have a different combination of resources at your hands in them due to it not being void.

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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted (edited)

How sad people fight for blood money. During the Gradivus Dilemma we fought for the freedom of the people of Mars. To allow women, children, and the elderly a free place to live. Free of Grineer. Because a great leader once said "All sentient beings have a right to freedom" -Optimus Prime

 

I didn't fight for the Corpus for Money. I fought for their children, and freedom...

 

0% taxes is awesome, and if Eclipse took all the solar rails and put them at 25% tax what would be the purpose of Solar rails? None... We would all go to Voids... I have like over a hundred keys as it is...

So you do fight for money. 0% means more money for you, after all.

And I don't see anything about the alliances currently taxing resources.

 

Also e-RP is creepy please stop it.

 

 

In warframe, there's a 'country' that's tax free and that country is Sechura.

 

The "outrage" that was stirred was because of Eclipse attacking SoV's 0% tax rail, not because Eclipse has 25% tax on all their rails. It's specifically that people didn't want Sechura to go from being a 0% tax node to a 25% tax node, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

No the outrage stems waaaay before SoV vs Eclipse. I don't even care about SoV vs Eclipse.

Edited by Kyte
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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted (edited)

So you do fight for money. 0% means more money for you, after all.

And I don't see anything about the alliances currently taxing resources.

 

Also e-RP is creepy please stop it.

 

 

No the outrage stems waaaay before SoV vs Eclipse. I don't even care about SoV vs Eclipse.

 

I've seen threads here and there about their tax on their nodes. I didn't see a multi-day outrage over Eclipse. The reason this megathread exists now isn't just because people have had problems with Eclipse's taxes and vented that instead of just playing on non-Eclipse nodes.

Edited by AntoineFlemming
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Lizzardtong

Lizzardtong

Posted
Posted

Lets look at the Taxes like a Pizza.

 

one Slice would be the equivalent of eclipse's 25% credit taxes

 

the rest of the 75% would be the rest of the pizza, just for you.

 

and depending how we see it with the 0% tax or 25% tax its either:

 

"You baked a whole pizza just for us?" Or "oh great, i make a pizza for you, but the moment i want a slice too, you call me greedy"

 

you can call the clans with all the taxes greedy, but prepare to get called greedy yourself because you get the bigger share.

 

thats just my thought, i myself think that resource taxes are dumb, but people please, 25% is still okayish.

 

hell, this debate reminds me of an exchange from Saints Row 2.

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Kazzamo

Kazzamo

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Posted

Also here is a point. If you have a credit booster some credits are flat out destroyed. The 25% is taken before the credits are doubled so it's still taking 25% of my gain, but really only giving Eclipse (using them simply because the are the elephant in the room and no other reason) 12.5% of my gain. It's a hidden credit sink.

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Arlayn

Arlayn

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Posted

The first time you posted the Optimus shtick it was cute. Now it's just getting old and worn out, like a tire. Please stop using it before you make me hate my childhood more.

 

  Onto the relevant bits, there are -far- more reasons to run Dark Sectors than just credits. I know I know it's mind blowing to realize increased exp has a nice lure to it as well as the fact you have a different combination of resources at your hands in them due to it not being void.

increased alittle bit, but too difficult to fully take advantage of it. If I take a bronco, latron, and skana... to finish maxing them out. Pretty sure I would keep stopping on wave 5, and barely getting anything out of it.

 

If anything Dark Sectors needs more activity, and purpose to work with it, and Solar rail wars needs more options, and tactics to make it more fair for clans, and alliances that are not on 24/7, and can consistently play over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... See where I am getting at? Majority of clans, and alliances ARE CASUAL PLAYERS. Not all of us have the manpower, or time to be on all at once, and fight directly with a super alliance that has consistency. Its an unfair fight for the casuals.

 

Which is why system for fights being done in other manners is ideal. Seriously. Why can't I attach a siphon to solar rails, and steal a portion of their taxes? In which said alliance, or clan owning the node would have to build investigator bots to catch the siphon unit.

 

Maybe sabotage, or prepare help ahead of time before the conflict. Like EMP burst devices that can be activated to stun, or wipe out the guardian drones, and fusion moa guardians on activation within a certain distance. Maybe sabotage shortcuts into the system. Maybe sabotage the weapons used by the spectres.

 

Hell I am still waiting for the day to ram solar rails... I got abunch of them. I wouldn't mind ramming them into other solar rails. Give us something to do. Would be great if we could prepare weapons to hit the solar rail with as well. More advanced options should be given for assaults, and defending. More tactics, and options are needed to make these fights more fair. I have fought along side other alliances, and clans against bigger alliances. They can't win. It literally takes a whole bunch of clans, and alliances just to defend against them. Which is absurd. ABSURD!!! We shouldn't have such a violent struggle just to do be able to enjoy holding a node for alittle bit. We can only hope DE doesn't give the nodes special rewards for winning all the time that are highly desired such as weapons, warframes, or unique cosmetics that look better than our market equivalents, or ways outside of Dark Sector.

 

Irritating if you really think about how this system works, and how very few can actually get the chance to enjoy these fights, and conquering, or defending. Its a spam fest of jabbing your solar rail into a Dark Sector till you get in, and then a spam fest of the same thing over, and over. We really need to keep pushing feedback, suggestions, and announcing our feelings on the Dark Sectors. I know DE has plans, but we have to keep voicing our opinions in hopes something too strange comes out to hurt it. I mean yes I have been in the field of EVE type gameplay. Except it was Perpetuum. Still a good sandbox game, and I can see what DE is trying to accomplish with the Solar rails, but it needs to be more advanced. It needs a violent focus on functionality by DE.. or give us updates to pull our attention AWAY from the Dark Sectors so we can focus on some other end game ordeal we can work with.

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2ply

2ply

Posted
Posted (edited)

THE MEGATHREAD GROWS

Why is a community moderator....aka he who controls the flow of communication so engaged in this debate..

More over, why is this moderator, one who is supposed to be as a judge, unbiased and by the book so involved and vocal in such a political arena such as the dark sectors....

Why is such a moderator...promoting and influencing and supporting the public to rally against a singular entity such as eclipse..

Finally why is such a moderator in this position when they openly and vocally support Warbros, a clan that is clearly in direct turmoil with Crescent Moon,...a part of Eclipse..do any of these things strike you as...wrong?

If you ask me moderators should not have vested interests in the struggles or the debates and conflicts f the general player base, and if the participate in the game they should act in accordance with the developers and keep their opinions and favoritism out of the public eye for the sake of balance.

A forum mod should act as a moderator should...one who follows a rule book and keeps their personal feelings good or bad out of the public realm for discussion...only to interject when a forum rule needs to be enforced...

As a moderator you should have given up your say in the public affairs...you wear a badge and get a special avatar, and some people tend to idolize you as some type of Warframe official...

We have some problems here.

This is no longer a pve exclusive game, those old habits need to pass as we usher in a new era, the pvp era on a massive scale.

Warbros is known to do anything to win, even cheat...why are we all not paying attention to the elephant in the room here?

I ask all of you to put in a support ticket and simply request moderators to no longer have a voice...they are here to work , do a job..not rally troops or splash opinions or food for thought.

Edited by 2ply
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Thirsty_Pickle

Thirsty_Pickle

Posted
Posted

Why is a community moderator....aka he who controls the flow of communication so engaged in this debate..

More over, why is this moderator, one who is supposed to be as a judge, unbiased and by the book so involved and vocal in such a political arena such as the dark sectors....

Why is such a moderator...promoting and influencing and supporting the public to rally against a singular entity such as eclipse..

Finally why is such a moderator in this position when they openly and vocally support Warbros, a clan that is clearly in direct turmoil with Crescent Moon,...a part of Eclipse..do any of these things strike you as...wrong?

If you ask me moderators should not have vested interests in the struggles or the debates and conflicts f the general player base, and if the participate in the game they should act in accordance with the developers and keep their opinions and favoritism out of the public eye for the sake of balance.

A forum mod should act as a moderator should...one who follows a rule book and keeps their personal feelings good or bad out of the public realm for discussion...only to interject when a forum rule needs to be enforced...

As a moderator you should have given up you say in the public affairs...you wear a badge and get a special avatar, and some people tend to idolize you as some type of Warframe official...

We have some problems here.

This is no longer a pve exclusive game, those old habits need to pass as we usher in a new era, the pvp era on a massive scale.

Warbros is known to do anything to win, even cheat...why are we all not paying attention to the elephant in the room here?

I ask all of you to put in a support ticket and simply request moderators to no longer have a voice...they are here to work do a job..not rally troops or splash opinions or food for thought.

 

Because moderators aren't robots, they're people too!

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Kazzamo

Kazzamo

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Posted

Why is a community moderator....aka he who controls the flow of communication so engaged in this debate..

 

 

Mod is part of warbros. They just want to see conflict in general. They're like The Joker, some clans just want to see the universe burn.

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Kyte

Kyte

Posted
Posted

Also here is a point. If you have a credit booster some credits are flat out destroyed. The 25% is taken before the credits are doubled so it's still taking 25% of my gain, but really only giving Eclipse (using them simply because the are the elephant in the room and no other reason) 12.5% of my gain. It's a hidden credit sink.

 

That sounds like a bug to fix.

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