Ability Nerfs/changes: Radial Disarm, Hysteria, Shield Polarize, Tentacle Swarm

[Cemges]

Lets make weak but good warframes with one good ability lose it so that we will guarantee nobody plays them. Sorry but loki, excalibur,mag, ash dont need any nerf. Valkyr nerf is justified, so is blessing.

[gnat6]

Honestly the proposed energy vampire changes would be a massive buff.

[Guest]

letting you solo through any game mode

 

I really really hope you're not implying playing the game solo shouldn't be feasible.

[(PSN)Darilth]

I wouldn't feel very Ninja like, if the Ninjutsu Gods degraded my abilities *Cries* lol

[Wolfstorm18]

Didnt read anything. 

 

Nerfers go home. 

 

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

Hysteria and blessing are being looked at with regards to invincibility. Hysteria is getting a new weapon 'type' essentially which will improve the claws(hopefully with better range).

So those definitely don't need to be on your list, the rest are so unworthy of a nerf bat that it's incredible you even thought to put these here. Radial blind is so weak already, energy vampire gets destroyed if your allies aren't paying attention and shield polarize is only really useful as a heal for your shields. Let's also not forget that maximising your abilities with corrupted mods gives them massive downsides to all your abilities, so pumping up invis duration makes radial blind useless and with ash it makes blade storm and teleport useless.

[shut]

Didnt read anything. 

 

Nerfers go home. 

 

This is literally as unhelpful to the game's development as OP's thread.

[VentiGlondi]

I have a better one, why not scaling and buffing the other frames whose abilities and overall performance are overshadowed by the OP frames? you know, because no matter how "Blessed" you are when your enemies take 2-3 magazines to die anyway even with corrosive proc.

I don't know how long you play to achieve enemies this strong, but after half an hour they still die pretty easily.

This game is still too easy and I don't have whole day to wait for survival to give me something stronger.

[Brahmastra]

I don't know how long you play to achieve enemies this strong, but after half an hour they still die pretty easily.

This game is still too easy and I don't have whole day to wait for survival to give me something stronger.

 

This is why I'm still hoping to get some special mode or a high level planet which has mobs that start at level 50, or higher. A T3 survival mostly takes around 40 minutes to get to level 40-50 mobs. After 40 minutes of grinding I'm pretty burned out already. Also I'm starting to feel paranoid that I might crash being that far in.

[Zirion_Bk]

and shield polarize is only really useful as a heal for your shields. 

Umm, excuse me? One of the most important abilities to have in a super high-level Corpus defense that deals insane damage scaling with shields and clearing entire waves with a few quick casts, only useful for healing shields? You sir, need to do your homework.

[Sirabot]

Well this thread made my stomach turn. SURE, Nerf all of the frames I use into the ground, Make their abilities that much more technical and hard to use and situational. While Nova goes on destroying whole tilesets worth of enemy within seconds. GTFO

[APBladeX]

Abandon thread...

Quickly, someone make a bunch of threads before the Devs come across this. Hurry!

Edited April 30, 2014 by APBladeX

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

Wait so he's talking about nerf and yet glances over abilities like molecular prime? Logic?

[NikolaiLev]

Just look at all these non-constructive posts.  Tsk tsk.

 

You chose an odd list of abilities, yet I see your point.  Honestly I feel that the culprit isn't some of the abilities themselves (radial blind is one of the lesser CCs in the game) but the mods; how you can specialize in order to make abilities far more powerful than they ought to be.

 

But, as you can see from the forum reaction, the community will be just as receptive as DE themselves.  They hate balance with a passion, favoring power over variety.  So any attempt at getting things nerfed will be met with irrationally hostile response.

 

Sad, no?

[(PSN)Hard_CORE_Gmr]

What manner of ignorant trolling is going on in this thread. I have a better idea let's nerf all the "this needs to be nerfed because the game is too easy" folks. Rather than ask for something stupid like nerf all the skills in the game, how about a difficulty slider/setting that let's players select their level of challenge. At any rate this guy is obviously clueless about good game design and should be ignored.

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

Im not bieng hostile to balance but he is ignoring far more over powered abilitys i enjoy a balanced game... The only abilitys listed in the tread that are unbalanced is blessing and radial disarm which turns bombards into butchers which is a bit too much... Yes I said that Loki players...

[Yopee]

Just look at all these non-constructive posts.  Tsk tsk.

 

You chose an odd list of abilities, yet I see your point.  Honestly I feel that the culprit isn't some of the abilities themselves (radial blind is one of the lesser CCs in the game) but the mods; how you can specialize in order to make abilities far more powerful than they ought to be.

 

But, as you can see from the forum reaction, the community will be just as receptive as DE themselves.  They hate balance with a passion, favoring power over variety.  So any attempt at getting things nerfed will be met with irrationally hostile response.

 

Sad, no?

Definitely agree with you here. Thank you for understanding my point about the one trick pony issue.

I guess it's either the ability to overspecialize and/or that some abilities suffer no negative effects from certain corrupt mods.

[Noble_Cactus]

The level of immaturity in this thread is staggering. All I'm hearing is the braying of anxious donkeys (save for the few people who've provided constructive feedback). Perhaps I should not be surprised.

 

Anyway, while I may not agree with many of the OP's changes, I agree with their general conceit: reworking abilities to require more thoughtful use. The best abilities in this game are that way because they are radial nukes or disables. These often don't require line of sight to use, nor do they require much though beyond "I press this button at x time and we live a little longer, regardless of where I'm positioned except for out in the open where I'm going to get dumped on". Invincibility states and radial nukes, to me, are part of what makes this game boring.

 

Now, for individual changes:

 

• Radial Blind change seems unnecessary. Maybe it would fail to target enemies behind walls or obstructions (they can't see the light that would blind them)? Otherwise I think it's fine. I do like the idea of enemies shooting in the general direction of the target.

 

• Disarm is fine as is, maybe give it a duration or something. I'm not sure. It does fall into the category of "boring radial disable" though.

 

• I like the concept of enemies seeing Loki/Ash if they get too close, since they might see a shimmering in the air and think "That's a Tenno!" The only thing I'm concerned about is in long Survivals where the Loki has to wade his way through hordes of enemies and is thus bound to be spotted by at least one of them. I dunno, maybe if the mob is already aggroed on another player they won't notice? Enemies shooting in the general direction of the player would work here as well.

 

• Valkyr still isn't desired in "endgame" missions for two reasons: 1. Hysteria doesn't protect her Sentinel, unlike Blessing, and 2. She still has trouble dealing damage against tanky enemies. Buffing her combo multiplier would help in that department, though I don't agree with the idea of getting rid of her claws.

 

I'm unsure of how the removal of complete invincibility would work out in practice, but it definitely would put her in line with a more traditional zerker. Berserkers are usually not invulnerable tanks. Rather, they often operate in a flux between life and death. That's why they usually have massive health pools and low armor values, along with life draining attacks. The zerker player has to work hard to maintain a constant cycle of becoming close to death, gaining that health back, and doing massive damage to the enemy bcause the damage they take increases their damage values or something similar. They're an exercise in resource management for players who can keep rotations going on the fly, and that's what makes them fun to play in other games. To cite an example from a popular game, Krieg from Borderlands 2 was designed with this mindset. He has to keep killing enemies to stay topped off on health and to get greater and greater damage bonuses, or else he's going to die. 30 seconds of invulnerability so you can mash in an enemy's face is not my idea of fun, but who am I to speak for others.

 

• EV changes are unneeded.

 

• I agree with the general idea behind the Blessing changes. The only issue is that it would suffer from the same fate as Snowglobe in high-level missions. That is, you see a group of four dangerous enemies, pop Blessing, then you get a nice damage buffer. Then five of their friends show up and rip your buffer apart in no time and you're left back at square one. Except unlike Snowglobe, you can't pop it every three seconds to maintain constant pseudo-invulnerability and would have to wait for that last person's buffer to wear off before you recast. I can see the official Blessing rework heading in that direction. If that's how the new Blessing ends up, both Blessing and Snowglobe highlight one of the game's major issues: what the heck is the endgame? 

 

• The utility of the OP's Polarize is tempting, but I think it might be best to leave it as it is. Requiring some of Mag's shields also seems unnecessary.

 

As stated above, peoples' resistance to these changes highlights the fact that we have no true metric for what an endgame is. And no, it's not Dark Sectors. They're a means to an endgame, not an endgame in itself.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Kihana]

... letting you solo through any game mode aside from maybe a long survival/defense mission. ...

 

Can't have people being able to play solo now can we.

 

Edit: Speeling

Edited April 30, 2014 by Kihana

[VKhaun]

Radial Blind is fine. Stun duration is short relative to the animation time. If someone feels it's too strong overall, I think Excal would need a rework, not just one skill nerfed.

 

 

Radial Disarm creates new gameplay. Enemies need to be better at melee and less derpy. The skill itself is fine and the game is better and more interesting for having it IMO.

 

 

Invisibility, Smoke Screen.

Invisibility, yes. Boring, gameplay reducing perma invisibility. Smoke screen... I think the potential for people to USE IT like Invisibility needs to be removed. When used that way it's definitely in need of a nerf. But when used with short duration in conjunction with teleport, it's a hell of a lot of fun doing stuns and it's neither safe enough nor easy enough to need a nerf.

I'd rather see both fixed with A.I. changes where they try to shoot invisible enemies, or can tell your location if you use a loud gun, but if we have to nerf them then chop down their durations real, real hard, or make them not affected by power duration mods at all.

 

 

Hysteria? No claws? Get out. OUT I SAY! >.<

 

Energy Vampire. Eh... if they're going to leave in team power restore packs as spammable and made of nanospores I would actually think this needs a buff TBH.

 

Blessing. Word. Boring easymode. Get rid of it.

 

 

Shield Polarize is only niched because no one values support (that's not OP), bosses with shields aren't too hard and shields aren't too common outside of Corpus. All of these things could change as the rest of the game evolves. I think it's one to leave alone for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too much being discussed at once for me to bother following it all. Did not read the whole thread. Just my 2¢ on OP.

Edited April 30, 2014 by VKhaun

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

Wait I am being called immature or are other people bieng called immature? i have only stated that there are far more potent abilitys that need DE's attention such as molecular prime...

[(PSN)infuriatedplayer]

Common guys radial disarm is op if i can just make a bombard drop his ogres then thats in over powered territory.

[Rawnrawn]

I am all for requiring thought and positioning rather than HUGE AOE DAMAGE/STUN/DISABLE LOLOLOL! that can be activated behind a wall and still hit the desired targets.

 

I would welcome being able to blind a ballista looking at my &amp;#&#33; through her scope with Excalibur.

 

I honestly feel bad for popping hysteria when I'm close to death, it feels like I've lost resorting to such cheapness.

 

Same with Blessing, alltho the duration is shorter.

 

Hm, Loki has had to sacrifice a lot of his defences for his utility and speed, I havent played him tho so I cant say anything.

[optyk]

Just gonna be 'that guy' and post a image reply. Because well, thats all this deserves. Dev's slightly mention a nerf to Trinity during a Stream and now all hell breaks loose on the forums. Everyone wants to be a developer now...

 

 

edit: Fine I'll make one comment on Loki and Radial Disarm. Yes it whacks all the AIs weapons -BUT with my build I run around with ~200 Health in-lieu for some other mods like Reflection, Marathon etc.. So, its not that OP as you put it considering I nearly bleed out from Slash damage half the time -but thats the challenge. Maybe in YOUR build you're OP -but not mine and mine is just as viable as yours. So there.

 

Stop building the obvious epeen omgz I win setups and try something new; cause you be doing it wrong.

Edited April 30, 2014 by optyk

[Vargras]

I just now realized that Rhino and Nova weren't mentioned at all in the OP's post.

 

Hah.