Hotfix Changes Needlessly Sadistic, May Destroy Playerbase

[Mithie]

Well you were using Trinity so....

Were your mods all rank 0?

Of course not. But I didn't slot a shield mod, so.

So you were smoke bombing through the whole stage, right?

Wait what? Trinity doesn't have smoke bomb....

No, I hid behind cover and shot everything. Had to break open 2 cases of pistol ammo to do it.

Edited April 4, 2013 by mithie2

[Jiki05]

You guys are forgetting one thing in this whole debacle. This game was advertised to me as a fast paced third person shooter with sliding around and slicing everything up. NOT hiding behind or on top of stupid boxes. And if you do hide behind a box to wait for your shield to regen mobs spawn behind you to kill you anyways.

Like someone said already make the game have basic scaling difficulty and rewards so if someone wants to play solo they can. If the devs don't want you playing solo why put the option there in the first place? Even Diablo2 had scaling difficulty and rewards and that game came out 13 years ago.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

You guys are forgetting one thing in this whole debacle. This game was advertised to me as a fast paced third person shooter with sliding around and slicing everything up. NOT hiding behind or on top of stupid boxes. And if you do hide behind a box to wait for your shield to regen mobs spawn behind you to kill you anyways.

This. When I played with the crazy difficulty boost yesterday, it was ridiculous. I had a 460 health/460 shield Excalibur with armor mod and I could not tank a single grineer lancer on Eris. I could not, in fact, stick my head out from cover for any longer than it took my lex to headshot him because if I did, I'd be down to health from one burst, that one burst having wiped out my shields and started chewing through my health. I basically had to hide behind cover and wait for him to reload, then shoot. There were no options for tactical repositioning because if I popped out of cover, I'd be hosed down. There was no effective way to use my braton, which needs you to hose down enemies to be effective. It was all lex all the time because only a frontloaded handcannon could let me make kills without trading fire (which would get me killed even vs a single grineer mook.) I only got the gorgon today, but that would've been even worse given the windup.

Now, what we have today in the hotfix's hotfix is a bit better, but I haven't played enough high level today to really get a feel for whether it's still too ridiculously difficult, and the guys who were arguing that it was "too easy" need to be argued against anyway because nerfducking and enemy buffing into crazyland is what kills games, not being "too easy."

I like Dark Souls and all, but difficulty of that level flat out doesn't work when you only have four revives/day.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[AcidMonkie]

I'm a slightly above average player, but this game is so ridiculously easy it's not even funny. Solo difficulty feels about right (if you're on Pluto), but adding a single extra player to your team makes all game content trivial.

[HvcTerr]

Oh, phew, that explains so much recently. Did a 3-party run on Everest / Councilor Vay Hek, and it changed from cakewalk to massacre. We all ended up out of any sort of ammo or energy, doing risky melee moves and revives over and over and over. Then in another incident, I had my first Stalker visit, and despite him spawning in a glitched spot and me having safe cover, there was still a one-hit-kill involved when I tried to peekaboo him with a Lex too much.

Edited April 4, 2013 by HvcTerr

[Anelyn]

The game needs to mantain an increasing challenging curve moving from planet to planet. This doesn't mean enemies of higher levels have just more HP and end up bullet sponges. On the contrary, they need to deal enough damage to pose a threat. I doubt any enemy can 1 shot you in 1 second without you having any way to prevent it (doding, retreating in cover, using a skill etc).

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The game needs to mantain an increasing challenging curve moving from planet to planet. This doesn't mean enemies of higher levels have just more HP and end up bullet sponges. On the contrary, they need to deal enough damage to pose a threat. I doubt any enemy can 1 shot you in 1 second without you having any way to prevent it (doding, retreating in cover, using a skill etc).

If I wanted to play a cover shooter, I'd go back to ME3MP. What I really like about Warframe is how ridiculously mobile you are, such that you can actually reposition yourself to gain a tactical advantage rather than hunkering down in cover and trading fire. But if you buff the enemy damage so high that being out of cover is death (as it was yesterday), the thing that makes Warframe really unique vanishes, because suddenly you can't make use of your agility.

[Drachyench]

I find it particularly choice that in a game advertised as a fast-paced, melee- and acrobatics-focused third person shooter wherein you play as a power armored ninja, people are arguing that the optimal endgame scenario is a cover-based shooter that disregards all of the prior (excluding the "power armored ninja" bit) and even invalidates a fair number of Warframes.

[ValhaHazred]

One of the main reasons I liked this game was the escape from hiding behind chest high walls so common in modern shooters. I tried to play the fun way and was killed instantly by everything but infected. I was playing within my suggested level so that wasn't it. My group died because none of us could revive anyone, the enemies just ripped you apart if you tried. We blew through all our self revives in about a half hour.

I think enemies need slightly less health and way worse accuracy. Something like old id games, where the enemy always shot at where you where a moment ago, rather than right at you. This would really help survivability and encourage movement and rapid dodges. Maybe slightly buff grenades too.

[Mageroeth]

The nerfed it back down.

I just solo'd all of neptune and Sedna + boss with nyx (overcharged).

With a lvl 24paris. (overcharged)

And a like 17 Afuris.(overcharged)

And a lvl 30 PLasma blade.

Either im too good or your all extremely bad.

[fishworshipper]

The nerfed it back down.

I just solo'd all of neptune and Sedna + boss with nyx (overcharged).

With a lvl 24paris. (overcharged)

And a like 17 Afuris.(overcharged)

And a lvl 30 PLasma blade.

Either im too good or your all extremely bad.

Notice how both your weapons and your warframe were supercharged...

But seriously, yesterday was HELL. I'm really glad that they fixed it. Right now the difficulty seems pretty perfect.

Edited April 5, 2013 by fishworshipper

[Kanaris]

The nerfed it back down.

I just solo'd all of neptune and Sedna + boss with nyx (overcharged).

With a lvl 24paris. (overcharged)

And a like 17 Afuris.(overcharged)

And a lvl 30 PLasma blade.

Either im too good or your all extremely bad.

I can solo any of the planets (and their bosses) short of Pluto right now with the increased damage output of the enemies.

That doesn't make it easy. And if you say that it's easy, you're a liar, because even though I have 700 shields they're gone in seconds on Europa or Sedna. Literally seconds. It's absolutely silly that in a game where I'm supposed to be an agile, wall-running ninja I have to hide all the time.

[neKroMancer]

I can solo any of the planets (and their bosses) short of Pluto right now with the increased damage output of the enemies.

That doesn't make it easy. And if you say that it's easy, you're a liar, because even though I have 700 shields they're gone in seconds on Europa or Sedna. Literally seconds. It's absolutely silly that in a game where I'm supposed to be an agile, wall-running ninja I have to hide all the time.

Solo means you eat 2-3 times bullet. What do you expect? Solo gameplay =/= Online teamplay where there are other players running around and facetanking with you.

[Xtorma]

I have a feeling they will eventually add in a difficulty choice when you ready up a sector. ME3 is by far not perfect, but it did this right. It allowed players to see all content on easy mode, but had 3 other tiers of challenge for the better players. Only a tiny fraction of the playerbase could solo platinum. Rewards scaled accordingly so players would strive to obtain the skills needed to advance.

As far as cover, ME3 was a cover based game, but the very best players rarely used hard cover. They found that mobility and soft cover was much more important to survivability.They also found that offense trumps defense every single time. Warframe has these things in abundance. If you came from a year of playing ME3 on the highest difficulties, this game will feel like home. I miss right hand advantage though :(....and lolgrenades

I got the enemy radar artifact, and it works wonders for this playstyle.

This game got a little harder, yes, but not nearly as difficult as ME3 platinum.....yet.

Disclaimer...I have not played pluto or the higher levels yet. I am progressing through the game as i feel it is meant to be done. I may change my mind after i get there.

[Mithie]

Please please please please PLEAAASE don't take ME 3 gameplay as any sort of inspiration for Warframe...

[OmegaPaladin]

Hey look its MJ12 calling elitist again to everyone who dislike to rush the level and one-shooting everyting.

Plz.... I like the new difficult but the amount of other bugs its just $&*&*#(%&.

Uh, rushing levels and one-shotting everything? I never noticed that in Warframe. I play thorough - leave only corpses behind, and I've rarely had one-shot kills outside of headshots with powerful guns.

[Antiks]

You seem to be somewhat exaggerating the difficulty. Yes it has become more of a challenge but it should be a challenge to play on planets like pluto solo. I've been doing it today and it hasn't been as impossible as you've made it sound. Running and gunning is required more often now and melee falls out of favor. If you have infact played all those shooters on the hardest settings I don't see how you are having so much trouble. I have my suit and weapons super charged and modded out though.

If stuff is supposed to be the hardest content people shouldn't be running around with S#&$ equipment on like before. Even with good equipment you should probably be going in expecting to die once or twice in the hardest zones and really that's not the end of the world. I still see people in the 30-40 areas using all the basic gear with no visible mods. I've had more than a few games where i'll have 100+ kills and the other guys will have 5-15.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Antiks

[Quetzhal]

You seem to be somewhat exaggerating the difficulty. Yes it has become more of a challenge but it should be a challenge to play on planets like pluto solo. I've been doing it today and it hasn't been as impossible as you've made it sound. Running and gunning is required more often now and melee falls out of favor. If you have infact played all those shooters on the hardest settings I don't see how you are having so much trouble. I have my suit and weapons super charged and modded out though.

If stuff is supposed to be the hardest content people shouldn't be running around with S#&$ equipment on like before. Even with good equipment you should probably be going in expecting to die once or twice in the hardest zones and really that's not the end of the world. I still see people in the 30-40 areas using all the basic gear with no visible mods. I've had more than a few games where i'll have 100+ kills and the other guys will have 5-15.

I'm pretty sure the enemies were nerfed again recently, though not too much. If you've been playing today, then you weren't playing against the same enemies the others were earlier, when the other patch was still up.

[Mr.Mango]

They released a little patch yesterday, that turned down the amount of enemies that you'll face in solo mode.

Yes, playing as a group is making everything much easier BUT I'm one of the few persons that gets dc'ed from all sessions or can't even play alert missions because Im (Like I said) getting dc'ed from every session...so, how exactly am I supposed to play these alert missions without hiding behind corners and just running from box to box?

Warframe feels right now pretty much like a cover based shooter with enemies on crack...without a cover system, but the enemies on drugs are still there.

Before the patch, enemies were not exactly "fine" maybe a little bit too easy, but that only counts for me. 2 of my friends told me it's fine.

So, now we have every enemy basicly shooting mini-missiles at you who kill you as soon as you stick your head out of cover..

Enemies turned into Bullet sponges and are shooting Hyena guided missiles...

Seriously, how is someone that is not playing every game on "1337 super hardcore" supposed to do any of the LvL 20+ Missions IF he is forced to play alone thanks to the matchmaking?!

I mean, someone posted a screenshot from with the active squads on pluto being 0. Well, I checked it in central europe from 5pm-9pm (main time, everybody is back at home, back from school or whatever).

Ceres is having about 2-4 sometimes 6 active squads. Most the time it's less then 6. Nobody on Pluto and rarely 1 squad at Eris.

So, uh, again, game isn't too difficult yes? Wonder why nobody's playing high-lvl areas...

[Kanaris]

Solo means you eat 2-3 times bullet. What do you expect? Solo gameplay =/= Online teamplay where there are other players running around and facetanking with you.

This isn't true. You face more enemies when playing online, usually exponentially more.

Also, reducing the difficult after the last patch isn't a nerf since it apparently wasn't intentional.

[sgtmelton69]

bump