About The Failure Of Morals And Common Sense In The Darksectors! A Multipart Rant By Thebrainbrain. Part 2: Why The "eclipse" Is ... Something?

[thebrainbrain]

The name of the post says it pretty much. The "eclipse" is an alliance that ... ? There is the problem. Nobody can really end this sentence right now. The Darksectors are just to new to judge the overall situation apart from the most obvious problems.

 

I don't really  have in-depth knowledge what eclipse is or wants to be so I just assume that they are an alliance like the others. And that what makes them so powerful is that they either have an amazingly big, active playerbase, that they just where very lucky with their initial rail deployment and/or that they are quite well organized. Or all of the above!

 

Fact is that they currently control or defend 7 rails.

 

What does thast mean? Right now I dare to say it means nothing. Considering they at one point where close to controlling 50% of the 28 DarkSectors they current state is quite acceptable for me. It dosn't look like they are going for total domination or had any intention to do so.

 

They are controlling the Important recource planets ceres, saturn and jupiter? Yes they do! But they have not really used their monopoly for anything horrible so calm your $*!

 

For now they are just a scary big alliance and attempts to overthrow them are, in my opinion, a little premature. Especially since DE stated to fix the DarkSectors sooner rather then later.

 

 

 

But yet again this is not as much about the Eclipse as it is about the DarkSectors themself.

 

 

 

Firstly I would say it is safe to assume that DE could not have anticipated the rise of an extremly powerful alliance just like that. They maybe theorized about it but I doubt that there was an emergency-superalliance plan to ensure the continued balance of the rails once they where out. Still I would like to hear what they plan on doing about this situation.

Simply taking rails from an alliance of course never is an option. So what to do about it?

 

This shows the next issue in the DarkSectors. There are not enough of them. In the end there are 28 of them. I imagine that alot of alliances have the same problem: They have a massive rail overflow. In the initial rush of building when nobody was aware how long a conflict would take countless surplus rails where build. Now they are lying around doing nothing.

 

But a bigger problem are all the alliances and big clans that didn't even got to participate in any conflict yet.

Currently deploying a rail is a matter of how the server feels that day and less of who is the fastest. At least that is what it feels like for the warlords. Effectively pushing somewhere or actually having somewhat of a strategy( which is limited to "Where do we want to attack next?") is impossible or in the best case pure luck. A solution for this is not easy and would have to be very cautiously constructed to esure fairness.

 

Moreover there are siply not enough nodes. The 28 DarkSectors bear no relation to the hundreds of clans and alliances that are out there desperately waiting for there chance to do something with their 50+ rails.

 

The DarkSectors are more of a poorly executed test then a ready-to-ship system.

 

 

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Part 1 of the multipart rant: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/227666-this-is-disgraceful-about-the-failure-of-morals-and-common-sense-in-the-darksectors-a-multipart-rant-by-thebrainbrain/

 

Part 3 of the multipart rant: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/228725-about-the-failure-of-morals-and-common-sense-in-the-darksectors-a-multipart-rant-by-thebrainbrain-part-3-i-would-love-to-talk/#entry2650919

Edited May 8, 2014 by thebrainbrain
removed profanity

[DMan]

Are you going for a trilogy?

[DaftMeat]

The crux of the problem: Once you own a rail and set a tax, you're pretty much set as they can pay for themselves. The more rails you have, the more credit/resource income you have. With the system in place, it's very easy for it to end up turning into a monopoly. There should have been an exponential drawback to the more rails you have, or at least a set rail limit.

 

 

I love this game, and respect DE, but the design and implementation of the Dark Sectors seem very short-sighted.

[Frostosti]

eclips is reliable and trustworthy. I will support them until the end

they already gave me over 500k credits while I never played in their dark sectors

[Phobose]

eclips is reliable and trustworthy. I will support them until the end

they already gave me over 500k credits while I never played in their dark sectors

I have only one problem with eclipse. That is that they control a large percentage of the solar rail system. As the OP said there aee only 28. Meaning they control 7 which leaves 21 to be contested over by a lot of clans, this doesnt seem fair and that's the problem with monopolies especially in in-game

Politics/auction there is no room for people who want to actually fight for a node and win. Seeing as how eclipse has an infinite support base there is no way that they will budge from those 7.

My 2 cents on a suggestion,

Reduce the amount of solar rails you can control at one time

and/or

Increase the number of solar rails.

I can only see these 2 solutions currently.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Phobose

[Vargras]

I can't tell what the point of this topic is.

[TheBlueMagician]

Why are there two of these topics now? Why not just update the first one that no one cared about?

[Rydian]

The crux of the problem: Once you own a rail and set a tax, you're pretty much set as they can pay for themselves. The more rails you have, the more credit/resource income you have. With the system in place, it's very easy for it to end up turning into a monopoly. There should have been an exponential drawback to the more rails you have, or at least a set rail limit.

 

 

I love this game, and respect DE, but the design and implementation of the Dark Sectors seem very short-sighted.

Because credits automatically equal wins?  :P  Strong moral and personal opposition can win versus battle pay.

 

That is why the giant Eclipse alliance didn't manage to take Sechura on Pluto from the single clan that held it some days ago.  In fact, Eclipse got their butts handed to them in just three hours, even though Eclipse handed out a million credits in battle pay and SoV handed out a grand total of 0.

 

If people outside of the clans really want to have a say and make a change in who's controlling which sector, all they need to do is run against the clan/alliance they don't like to damage them enough.  It's how the system is set up.

 

The clans don't PvP themselves with the way the system works now, which is what a lot of people seem to assume happens and base their complaints off of.  The clans go up for a vote, more or less, and the entire playerbase has a say in who wins and who loses.

[KeepOnFlowing]

WHEN IS PART 3 COMING OUT!? I'M SO PUMPED!

[Namacyst]

The game worked before the Dark Sectors were implemented... and the game still works after... when you ignore Dark Sectors, all the great and mighty alliances and pseudo-politics completely.

 

So who cares?

 

What we need is a Dark Sector sub forum so people like me don't have to read stuff like this everywhere.

[BrotherIcarus]

Are you going for a trilogy?

My moneys on a saga.

[BrotherIcarus]

The game worked before the Dark Sectors were implemented... and the game still works after... when you ignore Dark Sectors, all the great and mighty alliances and pseudo-politics completely.

 

So who cares?

 

What we need is a Dark Sector sub forum so people like me don't have to read stuff like this everywhere.

You don't care about dark sectors good for you, but why even comment on a thread to just say you do not care about the subject.

[Sixty5]

I could care less about who owns what in terms of the Dark Sectors, since there are people out there that care far too much (OP) and will do the important stuff for me.

[-InV-Skitz0]

Actually eclipse holds 8 rails not 7, and eclipse at no time held 50%, in fact they have never owned at one time more then 8. Furthermore they do not own Ceres, they own half of Ceres TW owns the other half.

[Trenggiling]

I have only one problem with eclipse. That is that they control a large percentage of the solar rail system. As the OP said there aee only 28. Meaning they control 7 which leaves 21 to be contested over by a lot of clans, this doesnt seem fair and that's the problem with monopolies especially in in-game

Politics/auction there is no room for people who want to actually fight for a node and win. Seeing as how eclipse has an infinite support base there is no way that they will budge from those 7.

Hey we worked hard to get where we are now!

[Mastikator2]

There needs to be more dark sectors. Maybe second gen dark sectors which are only reachable through dark sectors. That would put it at 56 dark sectors, if that's not enough make it 3 or 4 generations, each with higher stakes (levels and rewards) and more expensive rail upkeep.

[Frigglish]

Neither "clicked first when the implementation rolled out" and "collaborate in private forums, providing the easy assumption that methods not endorsed by DE nor acceptable to the rest of the community are at play" are in any way "hard work".

[NevanChambers]

Neither "clicked first when the implementation rolled out" and "collaborate in private forums, providing the easy assumption that methods not endorsed by DE nor acceptable to the rest of the community are at play" are in any way "hard work".

Collaboration in private forums was mentioned by DE when talking about dark sectors pre-release. So I would count that off of the not supported by DE list. That is if I read your post correctly.

[DaftMeat]

Because credits automatically equal wins?  :P  Strong moral and personal opposition can win versus battle pay.

 

That is why the giant Eclipse alliance didn't manage to take Sechura on Pluto from the single clan that held it some days ago.  In fact, Eclipse got their butts handed to them in just three hours, even though Eclipse handed out a million credits in battle pay and SoV handed out a grand total of 0.

 

If people outside of the clans really want to have a say and make a change in who's controlling which sector, all they need to do is run against the clan/alliance they don't like to damage them enough.  It's how the system is set up.

 

The clans don't PvP themselves with the way the system works now, which is what a lot of people seem to assume happens and base their complaints off of.  The clans go up for a vote, more or less, and the entire playerbase has a say in who wins and who loses.

 

By and large, trying to appealing to people's better natures over the chance for their personal gain is an uphill battle to say the least. Plus, not everyone reads the forums, speaks English, or knows the history behind the Dark Sector ownership. Some people flat-out don't care, and just want credits. At a glance, if someone sees one side offering 10,000 credits and the other offering 100, most will pick the larger payout. Even in the case you presented, yes Eclipse lost a node. How many others do they still occupy? How many more will they contest and take over in the days to come?

 

I don't have too much vested interest myself, but I do boycott all Eclipse nodes since their across-the-board 25% tax is too high, in my opinion. When they are under conflict, I do runs against that 25% tax rate as well, but in the end it rarely pays off and they end up maintaining control of the node. It is the responsibility of the playerbase to decide who controls what. Nonetheless, the governing body of this game (DE) does need to regulate how ownership and control works to encourage competition and to prevent one-sided conflicts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

[Rydian]

I don't have too much vested interest myself, but I do boycott all Eclipse nodes since their across-the-board 25% tax is too high, in my opinion. When they are under conflict, I do runs against that 25% tax rate as well, but in the end it rarely pays off and they end up maintaining control of the node. It is the responsibility of the playerbase to decide who controls what. Nonetheless, the governing body of this game (DE) does need to regulate how ownership and control works to encourage competition and to prevent one-sided conflicts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

Players need to stop being such whiners and run against a clan/alliance they don't liike if they don't want the clan/alliance to own a node.  You know, just like they did on Sechura.  Also, Eclipse didn't lose the node.  They never gained it.  They were the aggressor, and they lost the fight because the players were opposed to them winning and actually did something about it other than complain.

 

That's how it's set up by DE, so that if players give a crap then they can make a change themselves.

 

A - If people don't care enough to be opposed, then they don't care enough about the outcome to change anything (otherwise they would be opposed).  In these cases generally battle pay decides.

 

B - But, if people actually do give a damn and decide to take action instead of complaining and wanting DE to nerf Eclipse or add in anti-alliance rules or something stupid like that, then battle pay doesn't matter, just like the example.

 

If you still want to, for some reason, compare this to the real world... then the people complaining about alliance sizes on the forums are just like people making political complaint blogs online and on forums.  They accomplish nothing other than perhaps a little education.  The people who go and take actual action within the system themselves are the ones that make a change.

 

"Less qq more pew pew." as they say online, eh?

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Burn them! Long live the 0% sectors!! Please note for some the idea of the competition is fun. It's not personal. I "dislike" eclipse in the forums until we get U13 then I will have ps4 alliances to "hate". I don't really hate or dislike them they just happen to be the villains in my personal story line. It amplifies the game for those of us who don't take it too serious. If you find yourself getting really angry take a step back. Leave the competitive part aside if you can't separate the pretending some alliance is evil and thinking they are really evil

[OniDax]

1) restrict clans/alliances to one node and one node only. You'll solve a lot of problems there. 2) set a universal tax/battlepay equal to the non-conflict battle pay for all nodes.

 

The only competition is now between which clan/alliance wants their name on the map, and that's it. You'd say that then it encourages alliances like Eclipse to dominate because of their size and support, but go back to 1). With these two solutions, you get rid of all the BS and other morality crap about clans/alliances baiting people with battle pay.

 

The finer points:

 

You turn Dark Sectors into a purely competitive mode that is only competition between alliances/clans and allows for many clans to have nodes/contest nodes.

 

Only 28 clans/alliances will own nodes. These clans/alliances will not be able to deploy new rails.

 

A clan in an alliance will automatically see its rail superseded by an existing alliance rail, and that rail will automatically go into a self destruct mode to last the duration of the 12h conflict time (essentially a rail losing health without conflict).

 

After the rail is destroyed, another clan/alliance with no node will be able to deploy an uncontested rail to the node, after which it will have the 3 day armistice.

 

This system allows for a completely fair fight that only involves the clan's/alliance's ability to defend their own rail and garner support from others, without the enticement of battle pay or tax. That removes all of this drama that's been on these forums. Possibly the clan/alliance could choose between the node's battle pay or a particular number of a certain resource, much like the invasion missions. In fact, this function, plus actually changing the missions from the dumb rushable 2-min sabotage missions to large invasion exterminate missions (or maybe even sabotage+exterminate) would be better. Tying Alliances, not individuals, to the new secret organizations/factions/favor-system, players targeting a rail could be assisted by the opposer's favorable faction, so that it's even more like the invasion missions.

Edited May 6, 2014 by AntoineFlemming