Excalibur 2.0 - We Are Almost There!

[MichaelSD]

Well its been a month since Excalibur came out.

 

The only changes to him have been a since redacted change to Radial javelin targetting.

I really think DE is not interested in feedback on this issue or on addressing the community points (which have been the same since the pre-15).

I am sure instead they are hard at work on hubs, next frame and next updates.

 

I think its time we all stopped and come back in two more years so we can attempt to get another excalibur update.

 

That is my general impression too and not only with Excalibur.

[RahuHordika]

Loki also required a lot more skill to survive and some not so common mods to make him viable. In most cases new players don't have those mods, so they felt like playing as weak unballanced frame.

What I was refering more to was that an AoE nuke is a fairly straightforward ability that is easy to understand and use, the other two starters have this as well and while it works well on lower lever we both know the damage effectiveness is quickly lost at a certain point, even before most non-starter frames.

Of course the redeeming factor for the late game of those ults, which a player with experince would not learn to use wisely, is the utility/CC factor which scales pretty well: Crush holds enemies in place and then ragdolls them, Overload is a quick-cast expanding mass stun wave. Factors like these are what in my opinion, should be criteria for balancing Excal.

And in regards to Javelin, it's CC is so mininal and pointless that it's pretty much made irrelevant both by itself and by the other two comparable ults: The stun is so short not only is it nigh negligible by itself but also the casting animation lasts longer than it, and when compared to the other two starter utls thier form of CC is not only more lasting but also more effective in the long run. A thing I have suggested for Excal's own form of CC is that enemies that survive the Javelins are 'force ragdolled' away (aka the 'impale effect'), it's a simple method but can be effective without making Excal too complex.

[DSpite]

Unless Super Jump becomes the "you have to let it all go Neo" building jump in the Matrix? I'm still not using it.

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

I honestly doubt they'll completely scrap Super Jump and replace it with something brand new. IIRC they haven't done anything like that since the game went into open beta (I could be wrong on that though). At most, I can see them giving Super Jump some kind of buff or a new (and useful) CC effect to make it more viable. Personally, I'd prefer a legitimately useful Super Jump over Super Charge, even though I love the OP's other ideas.

[BartoluX]

Well the new directional melee renders super jump completely useless. At the current state of game you should build excalibur for range and duration which makes super jump like 3-5m high.

[Void_Vis_Vires]

This is really starting to drive me crazy. I am normally really patient with DE's  development style because they always eventually get around to any given worry or issue that i may have. However the situation with Excalibur is really starting to eat at my brain .  He is the face of this game and I really feel it was unfair that we had to wait about a year for the first pass on him and efficacy of the pass is still debatable. Meanwhile frames like rhino are getting quite a few tweaks relatively speaking. I has also been a while(excluding the viver issues) since I have seen the community converge on an idea so ubiquitously (mostly talking about the overwhelming amount of people that want a change to slash dash that involves some sort of damage buff and for it to synergize with damage(bleed proc) and melee (combo counter) 2.0 ) I was a little flustered when slash dash was left out of the recent buff.. I expected that they would (from that time) do another pass quickly after gaining some feedback from the community but that doesnt seem to be the case. Meanwhile they recently changed Nyx's mind control after a short period of people suggesting that it work how it now currently does.  They keep putting Excal at center stage of trailers and ads ect.  Yet he seems to have terminally bad luck when it comes to being overshadowed by other frames and its quite sad because he is arguably the single greatest factor to why I keep playing the game(and givign DE money lol) I  have over 1100 hours and have him at 51% usage.  At in my opinion there has yet to be a time when I felt he was on par with the other frames.  I have tried all the builds imaginable with him and I always feel like im putting in 3 times the effort just to be 2 steps behind all the other frames when, modded with the right build with max mods, pretty much play the game for you.  I really hope this changes soon its actually really starting to bother me.

[(PSN)theelix]

This is really starting to drive me crazy. I am normally really patient with DE's  development style because they always eventually get around to any given worry or issue that i may have. However the situation with Excalibur is really starting to eat at my brain .  He is the face of this game and I really feel it was unfair that we had to wait about a year for the first pass on him and efficacy of the pass is still debatable. Meanwhile frames like rhino are getting quite a few tweaks relatively speaking. I has also been a while(excluding the viver issues) since I have seen the community converge on an idea so ubiquitously (mostly talking about the overwhelming amount of people that want a change to slash dash that involves some sort of damage buff and for it to synergize with damage(bleed proc) and melee (combo counter) 2.0 ) I was a little flustered when slash dash was left out of the recent buff.. I expected that they would (from that time) do another pass quickly after gaining some feedback from the community but that doesnt seem to be the case. Meanwhile they recently changed Nyx's mind control after a short period of people suggesting that it work how it now currently does.  They keep putting Excal at center stage of trailers and ads ect.  Yet he seems to have terminally bad luck when it comes to being overshadowed by other frames and its quite sad because he is arguably the single greatest factor to why I keep playing the game(and givign DE money lol) I  have over 1100 hours and have him at 51% usage.  At in my opinion there has yet to be a time when I felt he was on par with the other frames.  I have tried all the builds imaginable with him and I always feel like im putting in 3 times the effort just to be 2 steps behind all the other frames when, modded with the right build with max mods, pretty much play the game for you.  I really hope this changes soon its actually really starting to bother me.

It is quite annoying how the face of Warframe has the most Trivial power. Honestly, if you think about it, they've really only showcased two of his moves, Slash Dash and Radial Javelin. He has the most trivial power in this entire game, the power to jump barely higher. He can't get anywhere with his base Super Jump height that he can't get by wall running meleeing or wall attacking and with directional melee now, EVERYONE has Super Jump. Fix his freaking power DE. He goes invisible for a second until he hits the ground, that's not even good enough for him to get out of danger. That half second, close radial stun doesn't help either when it doesn't even get most enemies that aren't already meleeing the crap out of your face. Super Jump is the most useless ability in the entirety of Warframe.

[Deios-Ken]

After reading many topics dedicated to Excalibur and having done it myself many proposals about him, I have to make unwelcome conclusion: the Devs are not unwary and they know that we have good reason to offer our rework, but they will never change Excalibur making it perfect as we want, because obviously for some obscure reason it must have limits and they are fine as it is.

-_-

[Jeetza]

All he needs is a serious cast speed buff. His cast speed must be a joke. Radial Javelin and Radial blind are just pathetic with their cast animation. Even putting on cast speed mod on barely helps and it is hard to fit a cast speed mod on Excal because he is squishy for a melee frame without invis(besides jump). You can tell DE was thinking "Lets make over the top, cool looking animations for Excal because new players using him will think it looks cool".

Edited November 25, 2014 by Jeetza

[MichaelSD]

This is really starting to drive me crazy. I am normally really patient with DE's  development style because they always eventually get around to any given worry or issue that i may have. However the situation with Excalibur is really starting to eat at my brain .  He is the face of this game and I really feel it was unfair that we had to wait about a year for the first pass on him and efficacy of the pass is still debatable.

+1

 

Excalibur does not need to be perfect, just usable. Currently, it is not.

[tris1]

+1

 

Excalibur does not need to be perfect, just usable. Currently, it is not.

+1

[r0ckwolf]

I honestly doubt they'll completely scrap Super Jump and replace it with something brand new. IIRC they haven't done anything like that since the game went into open beta (I could be wrong on that though). At most, I can see them giving Super Jump some kind of buff or a new (and useful) CC effect to make it more viable. Personally, I'd prefer a legitimately useful Super Jump over Super Charge, even though I love the OP's other ideas.

That is not at all true, they´ve done it multiple times already!!! Rhino´s 3rd abiltiy got merged with his 4th and Roar was introduced and Embers "overheat" was replaced by "accelerant" f.e.

 

This is really starting to drive me crazy. I am normally really patient with DE's  development style because they always eventually get around to any given worry or issue that i may have. However the situation with Excalibur is really starting to eat at my brain .  He is the face of this game and I really feel it was unfair that we had to wait about a year for the first pass on him and efficacy of the pass is still debatable. Meanwhile frames like rhino are getting quite a few tweaks relatively speaking. I has also been a while(excluding the viver issues) since I have seen the community converge on an idea so ubiquitously (mostly talking about the overwhelming amount of people that want a change to slash dash that involves some sort of damage buff and for it to synergize with damage(bleed proc) and melee (combo counter) 2.0 ) I was a little flustered when slash dash was left out of the recent buff.. I expected that they would (from that time) do another pass quickly after gaining some feedback from the community but that doesnt seem to be the case. Meanwhile they recently changed Nyx's mind control after a short period of people suggesting that it work how it now currently does.  They keep putting Excal at center stage of trailers and ads ect.  Yet he seems to have terminally bad luck when it comes to being overshadowed by other frames and its quite sad because he is arguably the single greatest factor to why I keep playing the game(and givign DE money lol) I  have over 1100 hours and have him at 51% usage.  At in my opinion there has yet to be a time when I felt he was on par with the other frames.  I have tried all the builds imaginable with him and I always feel like im putting in 3 times the effort just to be 2 steps behind all the other frames when, modded with the right build with max mods, pretty much play the game for you.  I really hope this changes soon its actually really starting to bother me.

I can strongly relate to how you feel man. I´ve also love to use Excalibur, for me he looks the coolest, he has the best concept (swordfighter) even though it´s horribly implemented and i don´t know why, but somehow it feels more immersive for me to play with him then with any other frame. It is incredibly dissapointing to be forced to unequip him in almost all high level content simply because literally everyone other frame is much more viable to take there....

 

After reading many topics dedicated to Excalibur and having done it myself many proposals about him, I have to make unwelcome conclusion: the Devs are not unwary and they know that we have good reason to offer our rework, but they will never change Excalibur making it perfect as we want, because obviously for some obscure reason it must have limits and they are fine as it is.

-_-

I did get the impression that the tweaks have been made in haste to be done with it and focus on other stuff again...i get that impression a lot with DE when it comes to balancing stuff. The sad thing is that balancing the content that is there is equally if not more important then pushing out new stuff constantly. They should have a complete team of people doing just and only that non stop!!! This is not begining of open beta anymore, this game has 6million Players!!!! Designing each of your Heroes/Warframes in a way that they are equally desireable is crucial for the end users experience!

 

All he needs is a serious cast speed buff. His cast speed must be a joke. Radial Javelin and Radial blind are just pathetic with their cast animation. Even putting on cast speed mod on barely helps and it is hard to fit a cast speed mod on Excal because he is squishy for a melee frame without invis(besides jump). You can tell DE was thinking "Lets make over the top, cool looking animations for Excal because new players using him will think it looks cool".

That is by far not all he needs!!!! He needs it though...

 

+1

 

Excalibur does not need to be perfect, just usable. Currently, it is not.

+1

[r0ckwolf]

edit 29.11.14:

Added an alternative "new" Ultimate to the MAinpost, that combines the effect of Radial Blind and Radial Javelin, also replaced the now free 2. Ability slot with the most awesome Warframe Ability ever! Yeah... you heard me!!! ;)

 

added spoilers to reduce the excessive textwall!^^

Edited November 29, 2014 by r0ckwolf

[Phyrak]

I'm loving the new Ult idea

Perhaps a new way for you to have it as a toggle?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/352857-toggle-able-abilites/

[r0ckwolf]

I'm loving the new Ult idea

Perhaps a new way for you to have it as a toggle?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/352857-toggle-able-abilites/

GLad you like my ideas!^^ Not really sure i get how your Toggle suggestion works, but from what i saw it looked interesting! :)

[Loubbo]

While I like the concept to some degree, in general, I would prefer to avoid "fire and forget" abilities. They do not promote experience play or synergy and would only reduce builds even further since duration would not be as important. 

 

What DE really needs to implement is more synergistic abilites that combo with one another and promote mobility and team synergy. Remove all these single target abilites, they do not scale well nor are they remotely viable in a game where you are fighting hundreds of enemies and require pinpoint accuracy (more of a issue with gamepad/console players). 

 

Excalibur has some of the least synergistic abilities and very little team utility. If I could change Excal I would do this.

 

1. Slash Dash: Point and Dash to selected area (removing the need for super jump and giving it better mobility).

 

2. Radial Blind: Cause a blind debuff in a radius around you and allies (LoS with allies and enemies).

 

3. Vanguard: Creat a set amount of self orbiting Skanas around you (and maybe allies) that can block and attack nearby enemies (to promote his melee sword theme). 

 

4. Radial Javelin: As is (if they fix the current not stunning bug)

Edited November 29, 2014 by Loubbo

[r0ckwolf]

While I like the concept to some degree, in general, I would prefer to avoid "fire and forget" abilities. They do not promote experience play or synergy and would only reduce builds even further since duration would not be as important. 

 

What DE really needs to implement is more synergistic abilites that combo with one another and promote mobility and team synergy. Remove all these single target abilites, they do not scale well nor are they remotely viable in a game where you are fighting hundreds of enemies and require pinpoint accuracy (more of a issue with gamepad/console players). 

 

Excalibur has some of the least synergistic abilities and very little team utility. If I could change Excal I would do this.

 

1. Slash Dash: Point and Dash to selected area (removing the need for super jump and giving it better mobility).

 

2. Radial Blind: Cause a blind debuff in a radius around you and allies (LoS with allies and enemies).

 

3. Vanguard: Creat a set amount of self orbiting Skanas around you (and maybe allies) that can block and attack nearby enemies (to promote his melee sword theme). 

 

4. Radial Javelin: As is (if they fix the current not stunning bug)

Well... i do think my suggested Abilitys would synergize pretty well with each other, since i had specificly that goal in mid when designing them! I do agree that fire and forget hit everything Abilitys are quiet boring in generall and that we need more synergy overall though.^^ And i do like the idea of Slash Dash having more targeting freedom and not be tied to the ground anymore.

[tris1]

Super jump and slash could be combined as the first skill like tail wind but still buffed with additional percs

[r0ckwolf]

Super jump and slash could be combined as the first skill like tail wind but still buffed with additional percs

Not sure about this. I think air melee takes care of that quiet well, would rather see slash dash buffed and super jump removed.

[tris1]

Not sure about this. I think air melee takes care of that quiet well, would rather see slash dash buffed and super jump removed.

I agree about removing super jump it's just some people are so touché about an obsolete skill being removed

[Thaumatos]

I think what gets me the most is that Slash Dash wasn't touched in the same patch that they gave everyone directional melee attacks which turned Slash Dash into a sub-par movement skill.  It was by far the best utility any one frame had for moving.  Now everyone gets it for free.

 

I don't use SD on my xcal anymore.  Swinging my weapon in mid-air is faster and cheaper.

 

Now this might be forgivable if it's damage wasn't so deplorable.  I can't remember the last time I tried to use SD for damage...it's been over a year.

 

Can it use the melee combo counter like everyone has already said?  That's probably the only way you can save it now.

[JokerVictor]

I think what gets me the most is that Slash Dash wasn't touched in the same patch that they gave everyone directional melee attacks which turned Slash Dash into a sub-par movement skill.  It was by far the best utility any one frame had for moving.  Now everyone gets it for free.

 

I don't use SD on my xcal anymore.  Swinging my weapon in mid-air is faster and cheaper.

 

Now this might be forgivable if it's damage wasn't so deplorable.  I can't remember the last time I tried to use SD for damage...it's been over a year.

 

Can it use the melee combo counter like everyone has already said?  That's probably the only way you can save it now.

I don't think giving it more damage is really going to help much, because even if they triple or quadruple the damage it's still no where near as good as my Drakana.  I think they should go the utility route, much like they did with Oberon.  Give Slash Dash a 100% chance to cause a disabling proc, either radiation or blast, and voila it now has a distinct purpose.  I also think it should be fully aimable, and super jump should go and be replaced by some interesting buff skill. 

[BerserkerPrime]

i would like to see the energy sword used like valkyr's ult but in a way that wouldn't be affected by base melee damage and not OP for num 2 abillity

[MDRLOz]

I don't think giving it more damage is really going to help much, because even if they triple or quadruple the damage it's still no where near as good as my Drakana.  I think they should go the utility route, much like they did with Oberon.  Give Slash Dash a 100% chance to cause a disabling proc, either radiation or blast, and voila it now has a distinct purpose.  I also think it should be fully aimable, and super jump should go and be replaced by some interesting buff skill. 

Though the fully aim-able seems fine, I am reluctant to agree with the utility of a proc. 

 

Make it increase, extend the combo multiplier. That way it gives some utility and allows it to work with the melee system instead of being separate from it. 

[r0ckwolf]

I don't think giving it more damage is really going to help much, because even if they triple or quadruple the damage it's still no where near as good as my Drakana.  I think they should go the utility route, much like they did with Oberon.  Give Slash Dash a 100% chance to cause a disabling proc, either radiation or blast, and voila it now has a distinct purpose.  I also think it should be fully aimable, and super jump should go and be replaced by some interesting buff skill. 

A pure damage increase would help to let it scale a little higher, but it´s not the best solution that´s correct, tath´s why most people want the melee counter integration since it´s a passive damage buff that requires a little more skill and thought to achieve addittionaly a forced bleed proc is what i and many others suggested since it fits well with the concept and damage type of the ability while also increasing it´s damage outputt.

 

A blast or radiation proc doesn´t make any sense though... I simply doesn´t fit with the concept of the ability! We are not doing a radiation dash after all, are we. ;)