Excalibur 2.0 - We Are Almost There!

[Batwing]

De seems to have a plan where they will see a frame people want reworked, break it to pieces then a month latter actually rework it and everyones back on their lap.

 

This should have been done a long time ago and his ultimate shouldn't have been broken now we have to wait for an actual rework while we deal with a broken ultimate on a classic warframe.

[Rexlars]

And even if you don't realise it, this attitude, this acceptance for evry misstake just makes things worse for all of us. Humans need reason. What reason is there for propper work if evryone hypes them eather way? Why testing content propperly if just waiting for a S#&$storm is enough? You few guys here aren't evryone, nor do you represent evryone. But you act for all of us. And make it worse for all of us.

Fanboying is never a good idea.

 

 

They decidet to revamp him after they broke him. The same guys do this, why would you not threat this as whole?

Can anyone here rly say that you're thankful that excalibur is in this situation?

 

.............please, just stop posting. You're not even making any sense. 

[r0ckwolf]

My apologies.

So, how about that new sword that he'll likely be getting? Any design hopes/ideas?

I'd like an actual broadsword, we don't actually have any of those in the game, almost all our blades are one-sided katanas, axe-blades, or cleavers, with the rare exception of the Galatine, Gram, and Plasma Sword.

To be really honest, i never thought about how the Energy Sword could look because i didn´t actually believe DE would go for an rework of this Scale and actually implement my idea. xD

 

How wrong i was, huh?! ;) Still it suprised me that they are even remaking the Model of the Sword, in my originall Idea i just thought it would make sense to let him equip the Energy Skana he already used for his other Abilitys. The Issue that some People might not like the new Sword only occured to me after you Guys mentioned it, i guess i was to caught up in excitment about the whole thing. 

 

Personally i´m just a general Sword enthusiast, so as long as it captures the unique Warframe mix of Sci-Fi and Eastern Culture, i guess i´m fine with it. I hope it´s nothing to extravagant though.

I do not think that it should be a passive buff that applies to any melee btw, since you talked about this with Ronyn earlier, not because it would be to complicated to implement, but because giving Excalibur his "own" unique Sword gives him some much needed Identity, which also fits themtically as an Ability in this case.

 

I was thinking that it might be cool if the Energy Sword would be shapeshiffting of sorts, like during a combo. Maybe start of as a longsword, change into a Greatsword and end as a Katana all during one combo.

I think that would be a unique and cool Sword/Ability and really fitting with the Energy Sword theme. Additionally it would maybe act as a compromise between diffferent People and their preferences for certain Sword Types.

Edited April 14, 2015 by r0ckwolf

[fatpig84]

As far as I am concerned, Excal was broken ever since RB was nerfed :l

I wanted a CC bot, not a kill bot.

Then he turned into a kill bot.

Now he is neither here nor there.

 

In fact the current idea by DE don't impress me to say the least.

But I hold back my praise... and my hate... Until Excal 4.0 is revealed.

 

Yes this is the 4th time they are trying to re-work.

Edited April 14, 2015 by fatpig84

[MichaelSD]

As far as I am concerned, Excal was broken ever since RB was nerfed :l

I wanted a CC bot, not a kill bot.

Then he turned into a kill bot.

Now he is neither here nor there.

 

In fact the current idea by DE don't impress me to say the least.

But I hold back my praise... and my hate... Until Excal 4.0 is revealed.

 

Yes this is the 4th time they are trying to re-work.

 

This.

 

Calling our criticism mindless is hate is.... interesting. DE messed up four times with Excalibur. Not to speak of the poll thy made, where we the votes were quite clear what is expected by the player base and they went completely against it. I am surprised that the discussion is this civilised!

 

Concentrating on the sword would be foolish, because there are tons of other weapons. Why limit the frame to the sword? Just because he used a sword in a fancy trailer?

Edited April 14, 2015 by ---Excalibur---

[SmilingMad]

And seriously, i couldn't care less about the topic. My problem here and the whole reason i'm even typing is the acceptance and praise for people who do a bad, overpaid job. You wouldn't praise a cop shooting your wife, builders that F*** up your home, bakers that poison your food. So why are you guys fanboying over DE?

I'll appreciate them the moment they start doing a perfect job on something for a change. Thers just no reason to appreciate or even praise them for bad work.

There is kind of a large gap between the things you mentioned, and the issue that you perceive. A cop killing your wife is killing your wife, and that is horrible. People $#@!ing up your home and destroying it in the process tends to cost a whole lot of money. A baker poisoning your bread is a danger to your health and safety. A dev mucking up a playable character is nothing short of infuriating, but it only gets on your nerves.

 

I suppose people are just relieved to finally hear about it, but I certainly don't think that you are wrong. They messed up, and praising them for finally reworking Excalibur is comparable for praising someone who gets to work late for, against all odds, actually turning up. Though I have to say, I do like the potential passive-agressive behind that. 

 

 

Concentrating on the sword would be foolish, because there are tons of other weapons. Why limit the frame to the sword? Just because he used a sword in a fancy trailer?

His name is Excalibur. Excalibur is a sword. Therefore he is the sword frame. It's his theme, and he ought to stick to it. He isn't the gun frame, that's Mesa, so he can't go and pull out energy guns because his theme is not weapons made of energy.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

There is kind of a large gap between the things you mentioned, and the issue that you perceive. A cop killing your wife is killing your wife, and that is horrible. People $#@!ing up your home and destroying it in the process tends to cost a whole lot of money. A baker poisoning your bread is a danger to your health and safety. A dev mucking up a playable character is nothing short of infuriating, but it only gets on your nerves.

I suppose people are just relieved to finally hear about it, but I certainly don't think that you are wrong. They messed up, and praising them for finally reworking Excalibur is comparable for praising someone who gets to work late for, against all odds, actually turning up. Though I have to say, I do like the potential passive-agressive behind that.

His name is Excalibur. Excalibur is a sword. Therefore he is the sword frame. It's his theme, and he ought to stick to it. He isn't the gun frame, that's Mesa, so he can't go and pull out energy guns because his theme is not weapons made of energy.

Ruining your life - ruining your comfort - runing your health - runing your fun.

There is a gap but none of these people get sympathy while producers do. Thats just wrong to the core.

Evryone that played, potatot and formad him spend time and worst case money to get him to a decent point. Its still time and money noone will ever repay you. I might be getting old but i rly value these things.

Edited April 14, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[r0ckwolf]

Further Off-Topic, mud throwing nonsense will be frowarded and reported to the Support Desk and Community Moderators!!!

 

It is completely uncalled for and lacks any kind of logic to call the developers of this game lazy and soley interested in profits. I asked politely to move this discussion to somewhere else, even though i do not believe there is a place for such a thing on these Forums. 

 

This is a Feedback Thread!!! 

 

Namecalling the developers after they took it upon themself to give a much wanted overhaul to a much beloved charackter of the game shows a tremendous lack of decency, situational awareness and empathy. If you do not like this game or the People who develop it, play something else!

 

What you are doing is not contributiong to the Feedback of this Thread!

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Further Off-Topic, mud throwing nonsense will be frowarded and reported to the Support Desk and Community Moderators!!!

It is completely uncalled for and lacks any kind of logic to call the developers of this game lazy and soley interested in profits. I asked politely to move this discussion to somewhere else, even though i do not believe there is a place for such a thing on these Forums.

This is a Feedback Thread!!!

Namecalling the developers after they took it upon themself to give a much wanted overhaul to a much beloved charackter of the game shows a tremendous lack of decency, situational awareness and empathy. If you do not like this game or the People who develop it, play something else!

What you are doing is not contributiong to the Feedback of this Thread!

I am giving feedback to the feedback, nothing wrong there. Nor is there any guidline that forces me to stay on topic.

The gave us the much wanted overhaul after they put us into the position of needing one for no reason. And running away from problems never solved them m8.

[Ronyn]

 

 

giving Excalibur his "own" unique Sword gives him some much needed Identity, which also fits themtically as an Ability in this case.

Sure that is one way to go. However...Is his identity actually lacking?

Doesn't he showcase his own unique sword already by using it in Slash dash, radial blind and radial javelin?

 

 

His name is Excalibur. Excalibur is a sword. Therefore he is the sword frame. It's his theme, and he ought to stick to it. He isn't the gun frame, that's Mesa, so he can't go and pull out energy guns because his theme is not weapons made of energy.

Following this line of argument....where themes are super literal and stringent...all themed frames should get locked into something.

Volt should have a mode where he can ONLY shoot lightning.

Frost should have a mode where he can ONLY shoot ice. 

Ember should have a mode where she can ONLY shoot fire.

Sounds kind of silly doesn't it? 

They achieve their themes just fine without any sort of hard locked, can only use X, mode.

Their themes are already evident throughout their various powers and aesthetics.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not saying a sword mode isn't cool. I'm not even saying I won't use it. Heck, I dig swords.

I have some in my house. I practice sword fighting in real life! No one would ever accuse me of not liking swords.

But the thing is having a sword locked mode isn't the only way to show a swordsman identity.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

I'm not saying a sword mode isn't cool. I'm not even saying I won't use it. Heck, I dig swords.

I have some in my house. I practice sword fighting in real life! No one would ever accuse me of not liking swords.

But the thing is having a sword locked mode isn't the only way to show a swordsman identity.

Thers also speculations that it will probably be executed similar to valkyrs hysteria. Whats rly bad. Valkyr does have her invincibility to trade for the missing dps due to the poor execution that locks the mode on specific mods but what are the chances that excal will get a copy of this mode? It's more likely that he will just suffer from massive dps drops for a fragile sword-mode.

He was fine as he was before. He was far from beein overwhelming. He simply worked. But theyd probably never admit a misstake.

[MichaelSD]

I agree, Excalibur is "sword themed" enough and does not require "more sword". He needs more usability for his powers. Different thing.

 

No "Valkyre mode" please! :(

 

What I can not understand, why not giving back original RB? It was not more powerful than Mesa ultimate, or Loki's Invisibility to name a few. With RB's melee multiplier I would be more or less happy.

 

He was fine as he was before. He was far from beein overwhelming. He simply worked. But theyd probably never admit a misstake.

 

Excatly, why not giving back original RB? It was not more powerful than Mesa ultimate, or Loki's Invisibility to name a few. With RB's melee multiplier I would be more or less happy. It would be less work and would require less changes anyway.

Edited April 14, 2015 by ---Excalibur---

[Ronyn]

He was fine as he was before. He was far from beein overwhelming. He simply worked. 

This is where we disagree. I think Excalibur had definitely fallen behind and needed some updates. (game scales higher now)

In my opinion, the only thing that was detracting from his swordsman identity was that he is poorly equipped for for melee range combat. He lacked the sturdiness, the elusiveness or the control capability that other frames have to excel in melee range.

Sure I could make it work to some degree but takes far more effort to do it with him to achieve a lesser result.

 

I can't really miss super jump because we will be getting charged jumps soon enough. (Something I've asked for many times over the years)  Sure I wont have those few seconds of stealth they added to super jump a few months back but I was never fond of that part anyway. I have often been willing to offer ideas on how to make super jump better to work with what I had...but I'd rather it be a standard warframe ability. I can't feel like I've lost something I still have.

 

I have been a proponent of either replacing super jump AND/OR increases his base stats to make him more melee capable overall for a long, long time. My problem is not that Excalibur is getting worked on. I think he needs it. My issue is in specific implementation of HOW they might rework him.

 

 why not giving back original RB?

I do miss the old melee modifier from radial blind. I cant imagine why that was taken away.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Ronyn

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Super jump WAS useless, thats true. But his auguments and RB opened up a pretty decent playstyle...

You could, if not playing on RJ, effectively CC enemys using RB, Collect decent combo-multipliers with slash dash (stable with the augument) and stomp them into the ground with the stealth multipliers.

The first part of the RB nerf, splitting the stun from the Blind phase actually supported this playstyle even better since you didn't loose the multipliers while getting rdy and/or throwing a RJ with leftover energy.

He didn't have a god mode, not the best dps, nor the best CC but a damn fine combination of all these features.

Edited April 14, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[-Himari-]

Cleaned thread of comments that did not push the discussion forward and will continue to monitor discussion.

 

Remember to stay on topic, Tenno.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Make me o,O

Nah but seriously, i can't agree with the course DE takes sometimes, nor with the fanboys in the community but you guys here are great.

[Volume]

<3

[gamedrone]

My favorite Excal build to date is a melee focused build that does nothing to his powers at all. It,s fun to use them all on equal footing and not rely on just one to crunk me through the mission (like blind/jav super focus builds). I for one look forward to this SWORDCALIBUR!!!!!!!!!!!! of sorts! yay :D

[gamedrone]

Outdate. They implemented something that can't be in the game. Neather the structure, nor the ai is meant to allow LoS.

Thers been many threads about this allready so it can be considered a given.

They simply broke him with experiments that don't even work propperly.

And seriously, i couldn't care less about the topic. My problem here and the whole reason i'm even typing is the acceptance and praise for people who do a bad, overpaid job. You wouldn't praise a cop shooting your wife, builders that F*** up your home, bakers that poison your food. So why are you guys fanboying over DE?

I'll appreciate them the moment they start doing a perfect job on something for a change. Thers just no reason to appreciate or even praise them for bad work.

I Praise DE for going in the right direction with Excalibur and taking him out of "role ambiguity". If we all stood silent, how would they know how we reacted to the change. I was there for ALL of Excalibur's changes and I learned to accept them since they are making the game and frames more suitable to LOS. I don't care about the javline change since it was LOS to begin with. And I might not be the most 1337 Excal player but I still say he is my favorite frame and this rework only strengthens that! :D

[Ronyn]

I Praise DE for going in the right direction with Excalibur and taking him out of "role ambiguity".

He wasn't in "role ambiguity". He had simply fallen behind in effectively fulfilling it due to changes in the overall nature of the game and a few unfortunate changes to his kit.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Ronyn

[WolvenEdge]

Also of note; you won't be forced into this new mode, as it will likely be a toggle. It's not going to be like Hysteria; they already said that, so he's not going berserk and throwing caution and reason to the winds to tear his enemies into little-bitty not-quite-realizing-they're-dead pieces. He's pulling out an extra weapon to gain an advantage, and putting it back when that advantage is no longer strategic. It still fits his theme.

 

And you aren't locked into melee either! It's specifically a way to combine ranged and melee attacks, or do we not understand the concept of Getsuga Tenshou style attacks?

[r0ckwolf]

Sure that is one way to go. However...Is his identity actually lacking?

Doesn't he showcase his own unique sword already by using it in Slash dash, radial blind and radial javelin?

 

True he does, but he´s restricted to it in use of those Powers, which you know are pretty undewhelming at the moment and aside from using the Sword are not really pushing the "Swordframe" Theme forward.

One might disagree that Excalibur is a Swordframe, but more a "Jack of all Trades" and i find your arguments towards that case convincing to some degree, however i personally find a more melee focused ability design simply more interesting and fun to use. So i guess on that part we simply have to agreee to disagree. :)

 

Thers also speculations that it will probably be executed similar to valkyrs hysteria. Whats rly bad. Valkyr does have her invincibility to trade for the missing dps due to the poor execution that locks the mode on specific mods but what are the chances that excal will get a copy of this mode? It's more likely that he will just suffer from massive dps drops for a fragile sword-mode.

He was fine as he was before. He was far from beein overwhelming. He simply worked. But theyd probably never admit a misstake.

This is actually exactly how it´s gonna work! We don´t know if it´s gonna be toggable or duration based yet, but it´s simmilar in the case of him equipping a unique Weapon while the ultimate is active. I share your concerns for survivability during this state and sent a private message to Scott about it, while his answer was short, it still implied that he is aware of those concerns and will adress them in one way or another.

 

I strongly disagree that he was fine before though! I do not think he worked at all. Was he playable? Sure! Was it fun to do so? Probably! but it took quiet a lot of effort to achieve much lesser results, then you could with almost any other Frame and that isregardless of the playstyle you choose with him.

 

I agree, Excalibur is "sword themed" enough and does not require "more sword". He needs more usability for his powers. Different thing.

 

No "Valkyre mode" please! :(

 

What I can not understand, why not giving back original RB? It was not more powerful than Mesa ultimate, or Loki's Invisibility to name a few. With RB's melee multiplier I would be more or less happy.

 

 

Excatly, why not giving back original RB? It was not more powerful than Mesa ultimate, or Loki's Invisibility to name a few. With RB's melee multiplier I would be more or less happy. It would be less work and would require less changes anyway.

Why not more Sword and what what does more usability for his Powers mean?? Could you elaborate?

 

The former Version of RB was strong and i can relate to those missing it and accusing the developers of implementing a LoS System that probably does not have a place in a game like this. I´m just as guilty as everyone other Excalibur user of "abusing" the old RB for my advantage, but this also means i know how much of an one-trick-pony Excalibur became in higher level content Excalibur became with this playstyle, which is something i always took an issue with and i know DE does too.

RB is still an amazing Ability currently there is just an tremendous lack of Synergy with the rest of his kit, i honestly believe the upcoming changes will fix this issue though! ^^

[Malitias]

"RB will open them up to finishers."

 

57:35

 

No need for a multiplier anymore

[fatpig84]

"RB will open them up to finishers."

 

57:35

 

No need for a multiplier anymore

 

A 400% mutliplier is still a heck lot more powerful than a finisher.

Why ?

 

1) Because with a freaking Orthos prime or any long pointy object, I can sweep through 5 targets, instead of ONE target.

Yes I do more vs one, but do I need that over kill for 95% of content ? No.

Efficiency matters a lot.

 

 

2) Finisher damage type (ignores armor) is irrelevant the moment there is 4x CP in play.

So much for the armor ignore huh ?

 

 

3) Old RB actually let you performed finishers ON TOP of the 400% multiplier.

Because the 400% multiplier kicks in nearly IMMEDIATELY after the Stun.

With the stun you can do a finisher and the 400% multiplier on top.

That was freaking devastating.

 

 

So yeah, sorry no matter what DE now says, it is still a nerf.

Yes removing the 400% multiplier is a MAJOR NERF to RB.

We already had the ability to do Finishers on top of a 400% multiplier, why should we settle with only one ?

 

 

So now matter how they slice it and present it to me, this is an outright nerf to RB.

Even if you can flash while walking around, but what's the point ?

What's the point if you can't do as much melee damage as before and we must suffer a watered down one ?

 

And I haven't even gotten to the RB Los mechanics yet !

Edited April 15, 2015 by fatpig84

[r0ckwolf]

So now matter how they slice it and present it to me, this is an outright nerf to RB.

Even if you can flash while walking around, but what's the point ? What's the point if you can't do real melee damage and we must suffer a watered down one ?

 

And I haven't even gotten to the RB Los mechanics yet !

Can i remind you that nobody, including you, knows at the moment how much damage we´ll deal with the new rework! You´ll might end up doing more then before the RB nerf, i´ll advise patience and good faith regarding this. ;)

 

You are right that RB has been heavily nerfed multiple times, there is no denying that, but with the stealth multiplier i´d say it´s been done with some justification. We are not stealthy at all, when standing in front a major hit squad and blinding them. I guess the reason they took removed the multiplier is simply because the Ability did just too much for 50 Energy at the same time!

 

Just let the originall traits of Radial BLind sink in for a moment:

 

• 15 second complete incapacitation of all Enemys in a 25 m radius!
  
• 400% more damage to all Enemys hit with melee during this state!
  
• No Cooldown!
  
• Energy Cost of ONLY 50!
  

 

That´s one crazy Ability dude! I do miss it too, but i can understand the nerfs!