Increase Energy Consuption For Slash Dash

[Tsukinoki]

Lol wow, WTF is going on with people in this game. You guys complain the game is too damn easy. Then you complain now its too damn hard. What else do you want lol. There is nothing wrong with slash dash, get over it. Have you even tried using the ability yourself. If you don't kill the freakin enemy with it, your stunned right in front of the enemy and then get surrounded. So you want to increase the death chances of it now. Have you ever even got cornered with infested against massive amounts of ancients where your slash dash wouldnt scratch them that much and your just pinned there. And now you want to even nerf it even more lol. Wow why don't you go try and play it abit solo on the lev 35+ and then come back here and see its OP. If anything, alot of powers are underpowered. Slash dash is a melee charging attack that slashes. It's suppossed to be a power hitter. Him and Rhino dont have any elemental powers like the rest of the warframes. They need to have a backup plan with nothing else works.

I have used slash dash on high leveled infested quite a bit. When I dont kill them I still usually get out of the group and deal a large chunk of damage to them.

[Kabeta]

I have used slash dash on high leveled infested quite a bit. When I dont kill them I still usually get out of the group and deal a large chunk of damage to them.

Infested are the easiest enemy in the whole game. All the frames no matter what skills they have can pump out a massive amount of DPS on the infested with powers or without powers with the exception of Trinity as its a support frame with her powers and no DPS powers. What about the excalibur going against Grineer or Corpus and gets surrounded. There are multiple patters of difficulty and armor ratings and patterns to each enemy. Slash dash will not harm that much DPS on the Heavy or Medium-Strong mobs. Mostly just pumps a scratch on them to help them be able to pick them off at the end. I used excalibur quite abit when I first started. Yes beginners are going to spam the heck out of it, as with any warframe until they get to the high lev planets where it wouldn't matter how much you use slash dash. Every frame has a first ability that usually costs the lowest. Rhino and Excalibur slash dash and rhino charge cost the same just like how all the other abilites costs around the same. Just wait until the day they decide to amp up the bosses and such from everybody complaining the game is too easy, then the day they decide to nerf all these powers. I bet that you guys will be back here complaining that the game is way too hard and the powers are too weak. If slash dash and rhino charge didn't just go in a straight line to kill things then I would consider looking into it or wondering if its OP. But there are many many lev's that don't just have infested and all the enemies won't stand in a straight line for you to spam it. Thats why people spam it so much, thats why the cost is lower cause you have to use it more to be super effective. But I said enough already. I'm off looking into other posts to see something more worth looking into.

[Pixues]

Slash dash and radial blind should change energy usages. Should fix things.

[Aerensiniac]

You guys complain the game is too damn easy. Then you complain now its too damn hard. What else do you want lol.

A vocal minority was bugging the devs about how the game was too hard for them.

Following on that the passive buffs were implemented and the great majority of players started to complain cause what do you know? The game was fine and is now needlessly screwed up over the need of some "less skilled" and "i want to solo easier" kiddies.

There is nothing wrong with slash dash, get over it.

This is most certainly true if you do not know what math is.

Slash Dash is a 25 energy starter skill that goes on par (and in some cases above) the damage potential of other frame's 100 energy aoe nuke.

I admit that this is hard to comprehend when one did not have any schooling.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Z4rkal]

it's not because the other skills aren't good, it's because their first skill is so damn OP that it overshadows all the others.

Wait you think super jump and radial blind are good? The only thing they're good for is the credits you get from selling them.

[Tsukinoki]

This is most certainly true if you do not know what math is.

Slash Dash is a 25 energy starter skill that goes on par (and in some cases above) the damage potential of other frame's 100 energy aoe nuke.

I admit that this is hard to comprehend when one did not have any schooling.

I use excalibur prime a good portion of my gaming time and even I find slash dash far to powerful. I hit it to get out of sticky situations while also clearing out a good chunk of the enemies. But really there is no point when I would use any of his other skills when I can just spam slash dash.

Wait you think super jump and radial blind are good? The only thing they're good for is the credits you get from selling them.

Radial blind can be fairly decent with continuity because it can stun a large amount for a decent amount of time. Super jump was ok before wall running and such was introduced but now its a bit too redundant.

Also slash dash overshadows a lot of other warframe abilities. It can outdamage and outshine all of ashes, lokis, and trinitys as well as most of ember and mags skills with just his number 1. That is out of balance.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[xathil]

because it anoys me when someone just dos 4 slash dashes and killes all the enemys before anyone gets a chance

jelly much? oh right. your name is appropriate.

[Aggh]

Its a 25 power linear nuke.

Guess which warframe got chosen as the most overpowered on Warframe Wiki's poll. Yes. You are indeed correct. The excalibur.

Despite this, i can fully understand that this is not a problem for anyone playing excalibur. Naturally nobody wants his/her toy to be nerfed in any shape or form.

This just means that the people voting on the wiki don't understand the game. Excalibur is easily the most vanilla frame in the game and becomes a lot less powerful in later levels and isn't nearly as useful against most of the bosses.

Have fun trying to slash dash kela. I'll just use chaos and let her grinders stun lock her while I spam my akbolotos into her :|

Also, please tell me how effective slash dash is in late defense waves. There's a reason why you almost never see excalibur in high level defense missions.

I use excalibur prime a good portion of my gaming time and even I find slash dash far to powerful. I hit it to get out of sticky situations while also clearing out a good chunk of the enemies. But really there is no point when I would use any of his other skills when I can just spam slash dash.

Radial blind can be fairly decent with continuity because it can stun a large amount for a decent amount of time. Super jump was ok before wall running and such was introduced but now its a bit too redundant.

Also slash dash overshadows a lot of other warframe abilities. It can outdamage and outshine all of ashes, lokis, and trinitys as well as most of ember and mags skills with just his number 1. That is out of balance.

In terms of damage maybe. Loki's skills have much more utility and nothing can compare to Trinity's link+energy vampire combo :|

Ash is super under powered and most frames are better than him. Same with most of ember's abilities, though fire blast is easily one of the best abilities for use vs infested.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Especially because it doesnt matter how many enemies are in the way as long as they are within range they are all being taken down.

That's not my experience at all. When you're surrounded, particularly in infested missions, slash dash will only kill the first line of enemies, leaving all subsequent lines alive.

I also haven't seen very many people spamming slash dash in general, and certainly not as their main killing method.

[LongDraw]

Well as someone who has played the vast majority of my time in my Excaliber frames, I can say that anyone who claims Slash Dash is OP is either mistaken or biased. Slash Dash is useful, like mentioned before, when the enemy lines up for you, preferably in a bottleneck situation like a narrow hallway or narrow tunnel. Other than that, it doesn't do squad for damage really against infested like the ancients. Infact, the only reason I use SD on ancients is so that I don't get disrupted or lose HP from Toxics. More preferable though when dealing with 3+ ancients or better yet a boss is my Radial Javelin since I've actually seen "1000" appear in grey 5+ times from a single use. So lets see, maybe 1000-1500 damage with SD or 5000+ with RJ? Yeah, just go home...

[Dancingfirefly]

I have to admit, Slash Dash is far more effective than just about every ability my Ember has. Granted, I'd rather if they buffed the Ember to be just as awesome, rather than nerfing the Excalibur.

Slash Dash is an inexpensive ability that dishes out lots of damage. The Excalibur actually has a FULL kit of useful, powerful abilities. One thing they could do is reduce Jump down to their tier 1 ability and make Slash Dash tier 3 at 75 power. Jump just feels a little out of place as a tier 3 power.

With this aside, I'd rather if they buffed every single power to be exceptionally useful rather than nerfing the few powers that are actually useful, overall.

Then they can decrease the rate that power orbs drop and make skill use a meaningful and tactical contribution regardless of your warframe.

Also, I disagree that Slash Dash is the most fundamentally useful tier 1 ability in the game. That goes to Loki's illusion who can eat infested exploders for the team, can distract bosses, and can be spammed until everything you need dead is eventually dead.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Dancingfirefly

[Notso]

Can I point out Slash Dash has both had its range nerfed going in to 7.x, and it's useless when cornered by infested because of body blocking.

I still agree it is probably too good.

50 energy is too extreme though, should be 30 [for three uses]

Edited April 5, 2013 by Notso

[Cakes]

Most of the fun beginners will get from playing Excalibur as their starter frames comes from "zoom zoom zoom around the room" followed by fist pump (game does not actually have fistpump, so no your Excalibur is not a defective product). It is a mobile skill that early on doubles as an "oh s***!" button for new players. It beomes a lot less useful as an offensive skill as enemy levels get much higher. Rather than nerfing the fun, first skills like Volt's need to be buffed.

And we're all about the fun here..... right everyone?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Cakes

[Splosions]

@OP

This not PVP.

Those mobs don't "belong to you"

In Eris and Pluto when you are on wave 20+ you will pray for a competent slash dash player to kill waves.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Splosions

[Awesomest]

Slash dash doesn't deal a ton of damage, it just has a pretty wide spread area. It's a lot better than most other skills that cost 25. Volt's 25 ability hits one guy for damage and stuns some others. Frost's hits one guy and freezes him. Excal's can kill an entire line of lesser enemies.

[f3llyn]

Its a 25 power linear nuke.

Guess which warframe got chosen as the most overpowered on Warframe Wiki's poll. Yes. You are indeed correct. The excalibur.

Despite this, i can fully understand that this is not a problem for anyone playing excalibur. Naturally nobody wants his/her toy to be nerfed in any shape or form.

It's a pve game with shared experience and drops. Why does it need to be balanced?

And I haven't played Excalibur in well over a month, just to be clear.

Edited April 5, 2013 by f3llyn

[TtBrain]

Okay I summarized the arguments on both sides and I think people should keep in mind that:

a) Excalibur is supposed to be a channel for beginners to quickly get in to the game

b) So many people have started with excalibur and have it maxed out -> rank30 excalibur is supposed to beat up lower rank common warframes.

c) People got drawn to Excalibur from the trailers and the tutorial. This leads to the fact that they can really play excalibur and wipe out the enemies.

Pros&Cons:

Pros of slash dash: cost, easy to use, range and damage when buffed

cons: can lead you into sticky situations, the scaling on higher levels (try it against ancients, doesn't work), body block affects this skill.

In case of nerf:

Anyway. I think that it could do with something. Slash dash is good, but it does not kill everything.

However: the approach to just up the energy cost might not be the right decision. (Cooldowns, range, reduction to total damage, reduction of damage towards health or shield or armor and other options).

[LongDraw]

I must admit that using slash dash with my dual fire swords is quite fun as I get twice the damage area by equipping a sword on both sides of my body during the maneuver.

[Aerensiniac]

This just means that the people voting on the wiki don't understand the game. Excalibur is easily the most vanilla frame in the game and becomes a lot less powerful in later levels and isn't nearly as useful against most of the bosses.

1871 people voted to this date excalibur is leading with 774 votes and second is ash with 231. A more than 500 vote difference.

1. Thats a fairly huge amount of people which dont understand the game

2. It is a fairly interesting approach that those who vote are voting because they dont actually know what they are voting on.

Have fun trying to slash dash kela. I'll just use chaos and let her grinders stun lock her while I spam my akbolotos into her :|

First of all: 95% of the game is playing out against mobs and not bosses.

Second: Have fun trying to shuriken a boss with ash, freezing it with frost, have fun pulling it with mag for the lulz or trying to mind control with nyx.

Also, please tell me how effective slash dash is in late defense waves. There's a reason why you almost never see excalibur in high level defense missions.

I know for a fact that its a duck load more effective than pull or freeze for instance.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Brasten]

I know for a fact that its a duck load more effective than pull or freeze for instance.

Which says that the other skills need to be buffed. Bioware went down the 'nerf the best' route and they still havent brough much in the way of balance to Mass Effect 3. When it comes to pure Co-Op games buffing the weakest is often the better answer then nerf the best.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Brasten

[Aggh]

1871 people voted to this date excalibur is leading with 774 votes and second is ash with 231. A more than 500 vote difference.

1. Thats a fairly huge amount of people which dont understand the game

2. It is a fairly interesting approach that those who vote are voting because they dont actually know what they are voting on.

Ash is in second place. One of the worst frames in the game is in second place. clearly they have a deep understanding of the game. Trinity has a grand total of 56 votes. It's pretty clear that the fact that most of the people voting haven't been able to play most of the frames in the poll has influenced how people vote.

First of all: 95% of the game is playing out against mobs and not bosses.

Second: Have fun trying to shuriken a boss with ash, freezing it with frost, have fun pulling it with mag for the lulz or trying to mind control with nyx.

95% of the game is shooting mobs with your guns. I'd rather use a frame that has better overall skills rather than worry about the first skill. Excalibur has nothing that can measure up to the effectiveness of chaos or avalanche. Nothing that can measure up to the utility of loki's invisibility or decoy, nothing that can compare to trinity's energy vampire+link combo. Nothing that can compare to the usefulness of rhino's iron skin.

Ash is one of the worst frames in the game. Lots of stuff is better than shuriken.

I know for a fact that its a duck load more effective than pull or freeze for instance.

Avalanche has a much bigger AOE and if it doesn't kill what it hits, it imoblizes it. If you're chosing a frame because it's first ability happens to be good, you're doing it wrong. Crush can reliably kill a lot more mobs at once than any of excalibur's abilities can.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[Aerensiniac]

Ash is in second place. One of the worst frames in the game is in second place. clearly they have a deep understanding of the game.

Your word against the word of 1871 people and the solidest argument you can bring up is "they have no idea"?

Excuse me if im rather sceptic on this approach.

I could also just claim here that it is in fact you who havs no understanding of the game, but that would be too cliché.

Im open for arguments, not for "clearly everyone is wrong and i am right".

95% of the game is shooting mobs with your guns. I'd rather use a frame that has better overall skills rather than worry about the first skill. Excalibur has nothing that can measure up to the effectiveness of chaos or avalanche. Nothing that can measure up to the utility of loki's invisibility or decoy, nothing that can compare to trinity's energy vampire+link combo. Nothing that can compare to the usefulness of rhino's iron skin.

You are trying to measure up a tier 1 skill to 2 3 and 4. Thank you for proving my point that its overpowered.

[Aggh]

Your word against the word of 1871 people and the solidest argument you can bring up is "they have no idea"?

Excuse me if im rather sceptic on this approach.

I could also just claim here that it is in fact you who havs no understanding of the game, but that would be too cliché.

Im open for arguments, not for "clearly everyone is wrong and i am right".

They've undervoted one of the most OP frames in the game and have over voted the worst frame in the game. Even the devs have admitted ash is under powered and needs a rework.

You are trying to measure up a tier 1 skill to 2 3 and 4. Thank you for proving my point that its overpowered.

That's because tiers of skills don't mean anything. Mods and energy siphon can make energy costs largely meaningless so it's best to just choose the frame with the best abilities. I have 412 energy on my nyx with a fully upgraded streamline,continuity, and reach. I can spam chaos all day long. Why would I bother with such a low aoe ability like slash dash?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Aggh

[mhd995]

It could be a charged attack where the energy and damage + distance is dependant on how long you charge it (with a max of course). That way spamming it will be more difficult as you can either do many less effective weaker charges or only a few strong ones. Just a thought.

[Toddwjp]

Ashes powers can be seen as underpowered but everything else about him is great, any way all I want to see them do is make super jump a power for all frames. So I can equip fragor on rhino jump high in to the air and pretend I'm Thor