A Message To The Dev, Design And Art Team Regarding The Design Of Frames.

[[DE]Draice]

The concept for Hydroid is pretty much 1-to-1 with what you see in-game. It has the baggy pants, and the tentacled beard features. I don't think I can share it here just yet, but I will ask if we can include it in the Media > Concept Art section of our website at some point in the future. 

 

Zephyr looks a little more glossy in appearance than say Excalibur or Mag, but I think that's just the style Mynki was going with her. Looking at Hydroid, he seems to have the same proportion of matte vs glossy features as the other Warframes (to me at least). I believe it just depends on the concept of the Warframe to determine the gloss-to-matte ratio.

 

There are plans to create an Immortal Skin for her (and also Trinity and Hydroid) in the near(ish) future, and I'll ask the concept artists to take these feedback into consideration when designing them.

[Othergrunty]

(...) Everyone is entitled to their opinion on his work, but please remember that we are targeting a broad audience with the design of our Warframes. What you might view as massive travesty might be the perfectly realised concept for someone else. (...)

 

If you try to be as broad as possible you might eventualy stretch too thin. Again just something to keep in mind.

"Broading the audience" is also a term that has recieved quite a negative implication in recent years when game series went down the drain because the devs wanted the "insert name of currently popular game" audience. So excuse me if i'm a bit skeptic there.

 

Anyway thanks for comming in and telling us this, good to know that the different opinions have been noted.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Ronyn]

 

Mynki is the Art Director for Warframe, and has been since development on Warframe began. His artistic vision is what has lead Warframe to become the popular game it is today. Both Mynki and Keith worked on many of the earliest Warframe concepts, and all weapons, skins and other art assets are run by him for approval before they are released into the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on his work, but please remember that we are targeting a broad audience with the design of our Warframes. What you might view as massive travesty might be the perfectly realised concept for someone else.

 

I know Mynki designed the original Excalibur and he remastered the Excalibur Proto-Armor skin that was resurrected from Dark Sector assets. That said, we do occasionally outsource Warframe concepts to Keith, in fact Hydroid and the next Warframe to be released are born from his imagination. The Immortal skins are all concepted by various in-house concept artists, while a significant portion of other concept requests are outsourced to Studio Qube, who have worked on alternate helmets, weapons, the UI and a number of other things.

 

So in short, we do have other people designing Warframes, but please remember to be respectful to Mynki and the other artists working on Warframe. Everyone is working hard to make this the best looking, uniquely styled Free-To-Play game around.

 

 

I have nothing but love for the developers of warframe.

It is currently my favorite PVE focused multiplayer game of all time.

But If I'm completely honest I must admit that sometimes I play it DESPITE of some of the artistic choices...

not because of them.

Now there are many things I love, like several tilesets, certain "smoother" warframes and a few of the more weaponlike weapons. lol

But there are  a lot of times I just go..."yeesh. That is one unattractive design. Oh well, Game still rocks!"

So for me it is pretty hit and miss.

 

Now I get why it is important to make a game that stands out among the crowd visually.

I think that some of the weirdness for the sake of weirdness could be toned down and warframe still retain that signature look it has now.

 

But hey, I appreciate that you swing for the fences with this stuff. At least you're not playing it safe like so many other games do.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Ronyn

[SableSonata]

To be honest, I like Zephyr and Valkyr and Trinity's designs (though Trinity needs cloth physics pretty badly). For me, Hydroid and Rhino Prime are by far the worst-looking frames. Especially since Rhino Prime's iron skin looks like crystallized urine.

[Doom_Bunny]

Honestly I think they are all great. Hydroid is meant to be a pirate so the look of clothes was put on him, I think that it's the shine and lack of bagginess in the fore arms that make it appear like latex. Zephyr is awesome I have no idea how people see it as latex I just see a metal bird. Yes some of the colours look like melted ice cream thats an easy fix with colour palettes. Valkyr ranks with Ember and Nyx in terms of looks (thats damn high in my books). Trinity has a great medic look. Cloth physics may take a while as thats a pretty heavy looking battle skirt and may only get a slight swing while you are moving.

 

All in all the proto skin is my favourite, with the leaking energy look, so much detail to make him look rough/tough/battle hardened. Yeah I would like to see more proto skins that are not just a one time offer BUT I'm feeling happy with the art/design teams work so far.

 

P.S. This thread seems like a push for mods, as in steam work shop. Soon we will have cats, unicorns and god knows what shooting lasers at each other.

[Kuhrasu]

 

VERSUS

 

Which one is more distinct, has a theme and style well represented in it's visual design and manages to be detailed but not overcrowded?

[TheThreadWeaver]

And yet they're both made by the same person.

 

Listen guys. People evolve. We change over time. And as artists evolve, their art does with them.

 

Look at early Dragonball Akira Toriyama, and compare it to late Dragonball Z Akira Toriyama. Look at Picasso, who went through phases covering color and structure.

 

The art is not going to be the same all the way through. What we see as "losing focus" might just be changing inspirations and vision. As the dev's keep working, they're going to keep wanting to try new things, and have a changing sense of what is "good" and what isn't. That's just how art is.

 

 

Now more on topic, the only thing I've really disliked about any Warframe is Zephyr's feet. Not because I don't get the whole "bird" thing, but because they just don't seem to fit with the rest of her body. They are squat and stubby, while the rest of the limbs have "plumage" that give a sense of length and slenderness. And they seem detached from her legs, which just sort of end, which differs with the more continuous designs most other frames have.

[Zachles]

Mynki is the Art Director for Warframe, and has been since development on Warframe began. His artistic vision is what has lead Warframe to become the popular game it is today. Both Mynki and Keith worked on many of the earliest Warframe concepts, and all weapons, skins and other art assets are run by him for approval before they are released into the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on his work, but please remember that we are targeting a broad audience with the design of our Warframes. What you might view as massive travesty might be the perfectly realised concept for someone else.

 

I know Mynki designed the original Excalibur and he remastered the Excalibur Proto-Armor skin that was resurrected from Dark Sector assets. That said, we do occasionally outsource Warframe concepts to Keith, in fact Hydroid and the next Warframe to be released are born from his imagination. The Immortal skins are all concepted by various in-house concept artists, while a significant portion of other concept requests are outsourced to Studio Qube, who have worked on alternate helmets, weapons, the UI and a number of other things.

 

So in short, we do have other people designing Warframes, but please remember to be respectful to Mynki and the other artists working on Warframe. Everyone is working hard to make this the best looking, uniquely styled Free-To-Play game around.

I couldn't help but notice that Nyx has the same design as Excalibur. Is that just a product of Digital Extreme's being lazy, or was it really intended?

 

I'm just asking since you said that Mynki designed Excalibur and stuff. The only thing different about their design is the helmet, and Nyx has more feminine features (breasts, curves, et cetera), while Excalibur is more masculine. It seems kind of shortsighted to me.

[Divine-Seraphymne]

And yet they're both made by the same person.

 

Listen guys. People evolve. We change over time. And as artists evolve, their art does with them.

 

Look at early Dragonball Akira Toriyama, and compare it to late Dragonball Z Akira Toriyama. Look at Picasso, who went through phases covering color and structure.

 

The art is not going to be the same all the way through. What we see as "losing focus" might just be changing inspirations and vision. As the dev's keep working, they're going to keep wanting to try new things, and have a changing sense of what is "good" and what isn't. That's just how art is.

 

 

Now more on topic, the only thing I've really disliked about any Warframe is Zephyr's feet. Not because I don't get the whole "bird" thing, but because they just don't seem to fit with the rest of her body. They are squat and stubby, while the rest of the limbs have "plumage" that give a sense of length and slenderness. And they seem detached from her legs, which just sort of end, which differs with the more continuous designs most other frames have.

Yes people and styles do evolve over time. But they usually get better. Not what I believe is worse.

 

The beginning frames had a great style and fit well. They brought a huge number of people into the game. Now the latest frames are pushing a lot of people away.

 

It would be nice to either go back to the old style completely or to have alternatives so that people who don't like the controversial plastic and latex new style don't have to use it and can still enjoy the game.

[Kuhrasu]

And yet they're both made by the same person.

 

Listen guys. People evolve. We change over time. And as artists evolve, their art does with them.

 

Look at early Dragonball Akira Toriyama, and compare it to late Dragonball Z Akira Toriyama. Look at Picasso, who went through phases covering color and structure.

 

The art is not going to be the same all the way through. What we see as "losing focus" might just be changing inspirations and vision. As the dev's keep working, they're going to keep wanting to try new things, and have a changing sense of what is "good" and what isn't. That's just how art is.

 

 

Now more on topic, the only thing I've really disliked about any Warframe is Zephyr's feet. Not because I don't get the whole "bird" thing, but because they just don't seem to fit with the rest of her body. They are squat and stubby, while the rest of the limbs have "plumage" that give a sense of length and slenderness. And they seem detached from her legs, which just sort of end, which differs with the more continuous designs most other frames have.

They are not made by the same person, please educate yourself before trying to make an argument.

Volt, Rhino, Excalibur, Loki, Nyx and I think Mag were all done by KT:

http://blog.keiththompsonart.com/2013/07/volt-from-warframe.html

Mynki did the rest and while some of the early ones were decent, his latest work is really sub par.

[Cakemaphoneige]

 

Was this the fan concept or was it something else?

 

 

Yeah, im sorry De but you lost. The fan Design of Zephyr is just so much better IMO that its not funny, and i was actually so disappointed by your concept that to this day i still havent used Zephyr. Im interested in her abilities, as trolling as they are, but not in that suit thats been banhammered by the Ugly stick.

 

And as bad as it sounds that i say these things, and it doesnt seem repectful to Mynki and all, it has to be said. People have to be criticized in order to improve, and right now, thats what Mynki needs to do.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Cakemaphoneige

[Othergrunty]

I couldn't help but notice that Nyx has the same design as Excalibur. Is that just a product of Digital Extreme's being lazy, or was it really intended?

 

I'm just asking since you said that Mynki designed Excalibur and stuff. The only thing different about their design is the helmet, and Nyx has more feminine features (breasts, curves, et cetera), while Excalibur is more masculine. It seems kind of shortsighted to me.

 

If you check the very first Warframe trailer on Youtube you will see a female Excalibur (basicly Nyx with Excal helmet), also one with the Stalker helmet. It's pretty obvious that Nyx was originaly designed as female Excalibur, before DE branched out into more designs and decided that making a male and female version everytime would take too much time to be worth it.

So they made the female Excal it's own seperated Warframe with different powers.

[Wolfstorm18]

I agree about Zephyr. I got her yesterday and it looks like she was melted. There's also those things hanging on her back which are bizarre. Looking to the concept art I agree that the end result got too far from the original idea. But she is much fun to play with, I loved the Tail Wind and Dive Bomb combo. Since I play with the field of view at the minimum I dont see the hanging balls most of the time. 

[Aure7]

Are you @(*()$ kidding me? People are loving the designs and you dare to post a thread and just bash the artists working on the warframes. You're not even stating your opinion, you're just posting something you think is 100% is right.

 

And no, there can't be several completely different trinity versions or zephyr versions, at least not in my opinion.

[Aure7]

 

VERSUS

 

Which one is more distinct, has a theme and style well represented in it's visual design and manages to be detailed but not overcrowded?

both of them

[Kuhrasu]

Are you @(*()$ kidding me? People are loving the designs and you dare to post a thread and just bash the artists working on the warframes. You're not even stating your opinion, you're just posting something you think is 100% is right.

 

And no, there can't be several completely different trinity versions or zephyr versions, at least not in my opinion.

Come on now, don't be so blind, the "everything is an opinion" argument isn't a blanket solution for every instance of criticism, you simply have to face the facts that the older warframe designs, were thematic, consistent, both detailed but not overly crowded with visual data. I mean, these are objective aspects, we aren't arguing which artists designs better shapes, we're asking for DE to move back to the design aesthetic that makes sense, themes carried through visual design with details that still allow for basic visual recognition, I mean look at this and tell me again how anything I just wrote is my "opinion".

[Divine-Seraphymne]

Are you @(*()$ kidding me? People are loving the designs and you dare to post a thread and just bash the artists working on the warframes. You're not even stating your opinion, you're just posting something you think is 100% is right.

 

And no, there can't be several completely different trinity versions or zephyr versions, at least not in my opinion.

I'm afraid I don't agree. And I think that there are a few (Many of whom have posted in this thread) who also disagree with you.

 

I really have no intention to 'bash' on the artists. But I do believe that an artist requires constructive criticsm to improve.

 

It's one thing to say that a design is good but if you have qualms or problems with it then it's wise to inform the artist or design teams of your opinion so that they can improve, even if they don't take your advice.

 

So to reiterate. I don't agree with you.

[V0LK]

All of my Yes to OP! I hopped into beta, simply because characters and weapons looked awesome. Excalibur? Loved it from the first Dark Sector trailers. And now I'm disappointed with almost every addition.

 

Fan-made Zephir looked ten times better with slick and simplistic design. Hell, I'd pay platinum for this skin!

 

[Satsaru]

Come on now, don't be so blind, the "everything is an opinion" argument isn't a blanket solution for every instance of criticism, you simply have to face the facts that the older warframe designs, were thematic, consistent, both detailed but not overly crowded with visual data. I mean, these are objective aspects, we aren't arguing which artists designs better shapes, we're asking for DE to move back to the design aesthetic that makes sense, themes carried through visual design with details that still allow for basic visual recognition, I mean look at this and tell me again how anything I just wrote is my "opinion".

 

"My opinion is factually correct and you are silly for disagreeing with me" Is what I read.  Zephyr's design is busier, that's for sure.  But that doesn't make it less thematic.  I don't feel that having some of the frames have less of a "dude in an armored jump-suit" look makes any less sense.  As a matter of fact, what you suggest seems to directly contradict your desire for "visual design with details that still allow for basic visual recognition".  Quite frankly, frames like zephyr, oberon, and Davey-jones frame are quite visually striking.  I would say that, aside from calling Zephyr's design busy, your entire post is nothing but opinion.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  If you want to give feedback on art, don't try to do it under the guise that your personal tastes dictate a global standard.

[unknow99]

Complainers conclusion : K.I.S.S. ?

 

I like Zephyr's design but yeah, the fan concept was better. However it adds some identity to the game. (Would be even better if Warframe had its stealth mechanics & story mode too)

 

This topic is itself the definition of....Subjectivity.

 

To each his own, I guess...

Edited May 30, 2014 by unknow99

[grillv20]

And yet they're both made by the same person.

 

Listen guys. People evolve. We change over time. And as artists evolve, their art does with them.

 

Look at early Dragonball Akira Toriyama, and compare it to late Dragonball Z Akira Toriyama. Look at Picasso, who went through phases covering color and structure.

 

The art is not going to be the same all the way through. What we see as "losing focus" might just be changing inspirations and vision. As the dev's keep working, they're going to keep wanting to try new things, and have a changing sense of what is "good" and what isn't. That's just how art is.

 

 

Now more on topic, the only thing I've really disliked about any Warframe is Zephyr's feet. Not because I don't get the whole "bird" thing, but because they just don't seem to fit with the rest of her body. They are squat and stubby, while the rest of the limbs have "plumage" that give a sense of length and slenderness. And they seem detached from her legs, which just sort of end, which differs with the more continuous designs most other frames have.

 

when you're wrong people tend to completely ignore you 

[Kuhrasu]

"My opinion is factually correct and you are silly for disagreeing with me" Is what I read.  Zephyr's design is busier, that's for sure.  But that doesn't make it less thematic.  I don't feel that having some of the frames have less of a "dude in an armored jump-suit" look makes any less sense.  As a matter of fact, what you suggest seems to directly contradict your desire for "visual design with details that still allow for basic visual recognition".  Quite frankly, frames like zephyr, oberon, and Davey-jones frame are quite visually striking.  I would say that, aside from calling Zephyr's design busy, your entire post is nothing but opinion.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  If you want to give feedback on art, don't try to do it under the guise that your personal tastes dictate a global standard.

All I am saying is that I don't want new frames to continue being a clusterf*ck, is that too hard to understand? Are you attempting to imply that they aren't a clusterf*ck? Again, your blanket statement that everything is an opinion, does not remove basic factual arguments like "this frame has way too much going on visually". You even agreed with me on that, so what is your point?

[SableSonata]

At best, you could argue that Zephyr's default colour scheme clashes.

 

You can change that.

 

My Zephyr and Rhino have the same colour scheme, and they both look great. 

 

If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's your opinion. 

[Aure7]

Come on now, don't be so blind, the "everything is an opinion" argument isn't a blanket solution for every instance of criticism, you simply have to face the facts that the older warframe designs, were thematic, consistent, both detailed but not overly crowded with visual data. I mean, these are objective aspects, we aren't arguing which artists designs better shapes, we're asking for DE to move back to the design aesthetic that makes sense, themes carried through visual design with details that still allow for basic visual recognition, I mean look at this and tell me again how anything I just wrote is my "opinion".

I see what you mean but hydroid was a bad example there, it really turned out great as something that reminds a pirate, has a great overall shape. And zephyr is just the way it is. The zephyr theme is a theme of crowded curves and details and melted look. It somewhat reminds of gasses swirling in the air. You're saying that every warframe should be built of out of few basic building blocks and have a same exact amount of detail and reasoning behind the shapes or whatever you might call it.

[Aure7]

All I am saying is that I don't want new frames to continue being a clusterf*ck, is that too hard to understand? Are you attempting to imply that they aren't a clusterf*ck? Again, your blanket statement that everything is an opinion, does not remove basic factual arguments like "this frame has way too much going on visually". You even agreed with me on that, so what is your point?

well what others are saying is that what you call a "clusterfuck" is an important bit in making some frames unique and interesting, in this case it's zephyr. That's the way for her to be, and some like it, and you're just calling it "too much" but that's just how you call it.