Let Us Liquidate Our Founders Assets.

[TheAlfax]

I am not a founder and I've been playing this game for a long, looooooooooooooong time. Do I care about who's a founder and who isn't? No, I don't. As Modryn said, it only means you had the cash to support DE during the early stages of development. We all supported Warframe our own way, be it with cash, spreading the word, or making short, silly YouTube videos. I chose the latter since I didn't have cash for a founder's pack. The fact that these items are exclusive is a shame, and I hope DE realises this, but for now, I'm happy with what I have, and I don't feel like I need a badge to show everyone I supported DE.

[ObviousLee]

Founder status means nothing. No rational human being cares who's a founder or what exclusives they have. Most founders suffer from entitlement issues and "I wanna be a unique snowflake" syndrome.

 

It's not a symbol of loyalty, it's a symbol of support. Dishing out $250 does not make you anymore loyal then the guy who simply couldn't afford it.

 

I can see both sides of the argument but at the end of the day I don't care if they return the founder exclusive gear, however I'd expect people to dish out the same amount of money I spent ($50 for Hunter). I'm not against trading parts either. There will be no ideal solution to this and these threads sadly won't ever stop. I suggest people think what things will be like 2-5 years down the line from now.

 

Exclusives are bad in general and should not exist in any game. DE needs to stop releasing them. Annual exclusives are fine such as holiday stuff, as long as they're re-released the next year.

i can easily see your point here. the most enjoyment i get from warframe these days is helping people out any way that i can, be it new members to the community, or veterans who just want some backup that knows the game. And honestly, i used to be on the exclusive sides of aguements (seriously, check through my stuff, it was bad) but the more and more people that join up are seeing things they cant have, and it's driving people away from this game knowing that what they see will never, ever be able to be theirs, which leads to things like this happeneing: http://www.epicnpc.com/forums/190-Warframe-Accounts-Items

 

these people are SELLING THEIR ACCOUNTS and people who want to buy them(mind you this is ALL ILLEGAL) will start putting money into places other than warframe for warframe content. and trading exclusives is my solution to fixing that.

 

I am not a founder and I've been playing this game for a long, looooooooooooooong time. Do I care about who's a founder and who isn't? No, I don't. As Modryn said, it only means you had the cash to support DE during the early stages of development. We all supported Warframe our own way, be it with cash, spreading the word, or making short, silly YouTube videos. I chose the latter since I didn't have cash for a founder's pack. The fact that these items are exclusive is a shame, and I hope DE realises this, but for now, I'm happy with what I have, and I don't feel like I need a badge to show everyone I supported DE.

i can respect your point of view on that.

[PookieNumnums]

i have to say im firmly against trading our founders gear. 

 

heres why

 

we got it as a package. for a certain price. 

 

i can see excal p going for as much as 150$ or more... and thats not including the skana and lato. thats not including the access to design council and solar landmarks. 

 

Besides, theres a certain degree of 'investment' we made when the game was young. We showed that we had faith in the future of the game, from the rough game we loved early on. Why would you wanna sell any part of that. If not for sentiment, for swag. 

 

The mastery isnt enough to make a difference for one frame and two weapons. 

 

It wouldnt be sold for a flat rate. Highest bidder will win, and in that scenario, its not technically 'fair'.

 

I like that only the people who made the contribution can represent with that gear. Its like, LORE in a way. 

 

The people that care about trading the gear arent people that want to make the contribution to DE. Its either people who dont use excal and want plat, or people who simply want excal prime for no other reason than swag.  Thats not good enough imo.

 

also, it would be like getting paid twice on the founders packages. OOOH, ill buy it and make all this plat. and then sell it and make all this plat. 

It is used gear that some players want a plat refund on, but thats not very foundery. Theyre relics, sentiments, tokens. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by T4LCOMX

[cam0695]

i have to say im firmly against trading our founders gear. 

 

heres why

 

we got it as a package. for a certain price. 

 

i can see excal p going for as much as 150$ or more... and thats not including the skana and lato. thats not including the access to design council and solar landmarks. 

 

Besides, theres a certain degree of 'investment' we made when the game was young. We showed that we had faith in the future of the game, from the rough game we loved early on. Why would you wanna sell any part of that. If not for sentiment, for swag. 

 

The mastery isnt enough to make a difference for one frame and two weapons. 

 

It wouldnt be sold for a flat rate. Highest bidder will win, and in that scenario, its not technically 'fair'.

 

I like that only the people who made the contribution can represent with that gear. Its like, LORE in a way. 

 

The people that care about trading the gear arent people that want to make the contribution to DE. Its either people who dont use excal and want plat, or people who simply want excal prime for no other reason than swag.  Thats not good enough imo.

 

also, it would be like getting paid twice on the founders packages. OOOH, ill buy it and make all this plat. and then sell it and make all this plat. 

It is used gear that some players want a plat refund on, but thats not very foundery. Theyre relics, sentiments, tokens. 

 

What he said. look at multiple perspectives and also...look at DE's perspective this is a gift. a showing of appreciation for putting your money, time and heart into making this game succeed and to be honest if someone had taken the gift I made for them and they just took it and sold it  I would be very very anger no outright PISSED. and I would be very spiteful to whoever did it. Besides its bad prectice founders items are exclusive and to go back on it in any real streatch of the word would damage there name and they would lose community trust.

[ObviousLee]

What he said. look at multiple perspectives and also...look at DE's perspective this is a gift. a showing of appreciation for putting your money, time and heart into making this game succeed and to be honest if someone had taken the gift I made for them and they just took it and sold it  I would be very very anger no outright &!$$ED. and I would be very spiteful to whoever did it. Besides its bad prectice founders items are exclusive and to go back on it in any real streatch of the word would damage there name and they would lose community trust.

then why is primed chamber, an event exclusive mod able to be traded? why are the cicero and tethra event exclusive mods able to be traded?

 

if one thing is labeled as exclusive, and therefore should not be able to be traded, then this needs to be even across the board.

 

and i don't believe that the founders items are gifts. they are items, part of a bundle, that we paid for. if they were gifts, then why is it that even when founders was still open, people who had or did contribute in platinum purchases were not recipients of the founders items? simply, because they bought the platinum. if you bought the founders pack, you bought the contents of that package. so they aren't gifts, they are paid for items.

and they are paid for items that i want to be able to trade to people who want to actually use them.

 

and what you aren't seeing here, for whatever reasons im maybe just not able to comprehend (we all have our limits) is that people are selling their accounts through third party sites. what that means is that if right now you want a founder item, you have to search for these sites(took me one google search to find like three) and pay whatever insane prices are set in place to get that founder item from an account being sold illegally. this happens a lot in a lot of online games, and is a big &#! problem. why this is a problem is this: lets say you spend 150 bucks on a private third party site, and now have yourself a shiney new founder set. congratulations, you just put your money into another site that has nothing to do with warframe, so you can have access to warframe content. this takes money away from digital extremes, and in turn means less money going into the game.

 

now lets look at the flip side: DE allows founders to trade their items at their discretion, which means more people buying platinum from DE, or using their stockpile, to trade to another player. money is going into DE, not a third party, to be allowed to access content they themselves own.

 

trading exclusives between accounts= more money coming into digital extremes bank accounts, which in turn might be able to hire more developers, artists, whatever to essentially improve the game we all know and love, while still giving newer players the chance that they were not around for to actually acquire the items they want.

 

not being able to trade exclusives brings on third party piracy (which it is, make no mistake) and discord with new players seeing something they never can, nor never will have.

 

not being able to trade exclusives, and honestly mostly exclusives in general are really starting to hurt this game. a lot of saw this kinda problem a long time coming, and although not nearly a perfect solution, this is in fact a solution.

 

but it DOES have holes in it. we CAN reach a middle ground on this situation, without egotism taking part in it.

 

It's summer once again, the time for being a snowflake is over. time to go back to being water guys, so lets blend up and figure this out yea?

[Modryn]

Founders gear were not gifts, I payed for Excalibur Prime, it wasn't given too me. They weren't given to anyone out of the kindness of DE's hearts. They were marketing items to help give people an incentive for buying a founders pack. Let's not be naive here.

 

People who are willing to trade their founders gear are not bad, unloyal, ungrateful people. I'd never sell my Excalibur Prime, but I'd never fault anyone for wanting to sell theirs.

 

I don't need anything to show I supported DE, me knowing is enough. I'd have to be a very shallow and insecure individual if I needed to constantly remind people that I helped someone.

[ObviousLee]

Founders gear were not gifts, I payed for Excalibur Prime, it wasn't given too me. They weren't given to anyone out of the kindness of DE's hearts. They were marketing items to help give people an incentive for buying a founders pack. Let's not be naive here.

 

People who are willing to trade their founders gear are not bad, unloyal, ungrateful people. I'd never sell my Excalibur Prime, but I'd never fault anyone for wanting to sell theirs.

 

I don't need anything to show I supported DE, me knowing is enough. I'd have to be a very shallow and insecure individual if I needed to constantly remind people that I helped someone.

beautifully said. i hope more people share sentiments as you do. i can understand T4LCOMX's point of view, as they are iconic in what they represent, however i still dont touch mine. props to those who do, but i'd rather someone who wants the thing to use it more than selling it for credits(therefore reducing the total pool and driving up the potential value) and nobody enjoy it period.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

So, I guess this whole thread in its entirety is denying the fact that being a founder means anything. Sorry, I am proud to be a founder and to have what I have. I am not flaunting that fact. I am saying I am appreciative of it.

 

There are certain things that differentiate players from other players in any game. You can deny this fact which would be a denying the truth. Yes, no one is more special than anyone, but the fact of the matter is. This world/gaming world does have a title system regardless of how you look at it. Sadly, it does matter. If my name had [DE] on the beginning of it, that would tell you something right off the bat. So, this denial phase seems rather hypocritical.

 

From what I can see and tell, it is like what was paid for isn't appreciated. The items we got for doing what we did doesn't matter to the founders much. You can play "The Good Samaritan" if you want, but I don't just throw my hard earned money out for something just for the heck of it. Unless of course, you just happen to have mounds laying around, and like having nothing to show for anything...that is your choice. 

 

Giving something to others if you have something is fine. Just doesn't make sense if it had certain prerequisites, but then "oh yea lets throw this out like candy, because after all the prerequisites didn't matter" Which means your contribution meant nothing. 

 

However, for the ones who actually appreciate the things they have. That is a entirely different story. If you want to liquidate your assets, then sell it for credits. Sorry, you bought the package. If you don't like it then sell it, so you don't feel like your hurting other players feelings. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[ObviousLee]

So, I guess this whole thread in its entirety is denying the fact that being a founder means anything. Sorry, I am proud to be a founder and to have what I have. I am not flaunting that fact. I am saying I am appreciative of it.

 

There are certain things that differentiate players from other players in any game. You can deny this fact which would be a denying the truth. Yes, no one is more special than anyone, but the fact of the matter is. This world/gaming world does have a title system regardless of how you look at it. Sadly, it does matter. If my name had [DE] on the beginning of it, that would tell you something right off the bat. So, this denial phase seems rather hypocritical.

 

From what I can see and tell, it is like what was paid for isn't appreciated. The items we got for doing what we did doesn't matter to the founders much. You can play "The Good Samaritan" if you want, but I don't just throw my hard earned money out for something just for the heck of it. Unless of course, you just happen to have mounds laying around, and like having nothing to show for anything...that is your choice. 

 

Giving something to others if you have something is fine. Just doesn't make sense if it had certain prerequisites, but then "oh yea lets throw this out like candy, because after all the prerequisites didn't matter" Which means your contribution meant nothing. 

 

However, for the ones who actually appreciate the things they have. That is a entirely different story. If you want to liquidate your assets, then sell it for credits. Sorry, you bought the package. If you don't like it then sell it, so you don't feel like your hurting other players feelings. 

again, me selling MY itesm does NOT depreciate the value of yours. how can you possibly see it that way? please explain to me, as i honestly do not understand the mindset of someone else selling the same exact items you have, that arent coming from your inventory, affects you specifically? as far as i can se, the only way it truly affects you, is that someone else has it that didn't before.

 

 

i mean sorry, but seriously me selling my stuff will not depreciate you being a founder at all, nor will it depreciate mine. and again, why sell something for the sole reason of denying it to anyone else, is honestly sickening to me, as people are paying money to OTHER PLACES THAN DE FOR ACCESS TO THE SAME CONTENT. how does this NOT make sense?

 

money is not going to DE to access founders items, people who are not founders, at all, are using them. MY solution, takes that option away from third party sites, AND keeps money rolling to DE. how is this ANYTHING close to a bad thing? nobody has countered this concept at all, only stating (not for the most part, only slightly) that they dont want others to have what they have because it wont make them feel as special. i could very well be wrong, but that is what is being presented to me.

 

 

please, if im wrong, tell me. show me. cause from my side of the fence, im wanting to share, not depreciate anyones value. in fact most of the hostility is coming from people who want the status quo kept, not those who want everyone to be some form of happy.

Edited June 7, 2014 by ObviousLee

[TheAlfax]

So, I guess this whole thread in its entirety is denying the fact that being a founder means anything. Sorry, I am proud to be a founder and to have what I have. I am not flaunting that fact. I am saying I am appreciative of it.

 

There are certain things that differentiate players from other players in any game. You can deny this fact which would be a denying the truth. Yes, no one is more special than anyone, but the fact of the matter is. This world/gaming world does have a title system regardless of how you look at it. Sadly, it does matter. If my name had [DE] on the beginning of it, that would tell you something right off the bat. So, this denial phase seems rather hypocritical.

 

From what I can see and tell, it is like what was paid for isn't appreciated. The items we got for doing what we did doesn't matter to the founders much. You can play "The Good Samaritan" if you want, but I don't just throw my hard earned money out for something just for the heck of it. Unless of course, you just happen to have mounds laying around, and like having nothing to show for anything...that is your choice. 

 

Giving something to others if you have something is fine. Just doesn't make sense if it had certain prerequisites, but then "oh yea lets throw this out like candy, because after all the prerequisites didn't matter" Which means your contribution meant nothing. 

 

However, for the ones who actually appreciate the things they have. That is a entirely different story. If you want to liquidate your assets, then sell it for credits. Sorry, you bought the package. If you don't like it then sell it, so you don't feel like your hurting other players feelings.

 

"I like what I got, and you can sell it if you want to. But don't."

-Confucius

 

 

Edited June 7, 2014 by TheAlfax

[Moderius]

I chose not to be a founder, i didn't miss it. For me it was always more important to get exclusive from being there, from being a part of something and to earn in it within the games limitation.. not by throwing my wallet at the screen.

 

Yeah.. Some people buy platinum to support the game. Not to just "throw their wallet at the screen" in lieu of "earning it". That's a fairly unpleasant implication.

[ZomaCaius]

It is called exclusive and founder, i mean it was meant for those who sought potential and Invested allot of money. i'd reckon blindly for the future.

[ObviousLee]

It is called exclusive and founder, i mean it was meant for those who sought potential and Invested allot of money. i'd reckon blindly for the future.

yes, thank you for showing mastery of the english language enough to grasp that those are indeed two words.

 

sought potential? dude flat out there is no mysticism involved here. flat out. they were a package deal, that wound down to either you were going to buy them, or not. putting these digital pieces on such a pedestal and hiding behind the exclusive arguement is just..............sad, really.

now that we've got that out of the way, allow me to ask you this, seeing as you obviouslee didn't read the thread: if exclusives are supposed to stay exclusive, then they must be so evenly across the board: meaning that mods from the cicero and tethra set, as well as primed chamber, MUST have account locks put in place. otherwise, it's a simple case of well, these exclusive mods are ok, buuuuuuuuut the dude who spent the money and wants to sell or trade his items like OTHER EXCLUSIVE CONTENT is obviously either a troll or an idiot, because exclusive.

 

good yob.

Edited June 8, 2014 by ObviousLee

[TheAlfax]

It is called exclusive and founder, i mean it was meant for those who sought potential and Invested allot of money. i'd reckon blindly for the future.

Fun fact: I also saw potential but I had no cash to spend on the game at the time.

 

If you having cash makes you a "better supporter", then I don't know what to say. I know plenty of people who are founders and have played for as long as I have, and they don't really care about the shiny badge that they got for spending cash early on. Then there's people like you, who think they deserve the world's most fantastic treasures just because they happened to have money while the poor sod right next to them didn't. Whether you have cash or not it's none of my damn business, but I really wish people like you had this thing called "empathy" and thought about the rest for a second.

 

This goes beyond being able to buy/sell exclusive items. I just find this unique snowflake attitude disgusting.

Edited June 8, 2014 by TheAlfax

[ObviousLee]

Fun fact: I also saw potential but I had no cash to spend on the game at the time.

 

If you having cash makes you a "better supporter", then I don't know what to say. I know plenty of people who are founders and have played for as long as I have, and they don't really care about the shiny badge that they got for spending cash early on. Then there's people like you, who think they deserve the world's most fantastic treasures just because they happened to have money while the poor sod right next to them didn't. Whether you have cash or not it's none of my damn business, but I really wish people like you had this thing called "empathy" and thought about the rest for a second.

 

This goes beyond being able to buy/sell exclusive items. I just find this unique snowflake attitude disgusting.

gay marry me. now.

[Phatose]

You know, I'm pretty sure the entire purpose of money is actually to determine who deserves what. 

[ObviousLee]

You know, I'm pretty sure the entire purpose of money is actually to determine who deserves what. 

so those who had no money at the time don't deserve founders items? because of whatever reason?

[Phatose]

so those who had no money at the time don't deserve founders items? because of whatever reason?

 

Well, yeah.  Whatever reasons in this case is clearly "They had to spend money at that time and they didn't."

That's just how money works.  I didn't spend $100,000 on a Porsche, so I didn't get one.  It's precisely what money is for.

[ObviousLee]

Well, yeah.  Whatever reasons in this case is clearly "They had to spend money at that time and they didn't."

That's just how money works.  I didn't spend $100,000 on a Porsche, so I didn't get one.  It's precisely what money is for.

now that i can agree with, however, these are digital items. not real ones. there was no assembly line needed to make them, nor millions done in research to make the tech needed to make a Porsche be, well, a porsche. these items were at a limited time price of 250 bucks, and there are people who have spent well over that amount for platinum. that doesn't entitle anyone by any means, however, the "i supported DE" claim is invalidated by the fact that platinum purchases are still funding DE staff members and whatnot.

 

the exclusivity is also negated by the allowance of event exclusive content to be traded between accounts (cicero, tethra, and primed chamber).

 

prime access warframes can be bought for money, OR, they can be farmed/traded for (something else that someone can pay a large amount of money for, and is still able to be traded, as the farmed components are no different that the purchased finished product, save that money, not time and effort, was spent in the acquisition.

 

 

other places are making money off of WARFRAME through users selling licensed content they do not own, so honestly, whether anyone wants to actually admit it or not, the "exclusivity" of the founders has already been long compromised. removing the ability for companies and sites to make money off of warframe content is as simple as taking the ability to transfer these items that are what people are going ELSEWHERE to pay insane prices, and making it available to be traded here.

 

long n short is, there seems to be a random decision process in deciding which exclusive content should be ok to be tradable. it all needs to be even across the board, or locked across the board, as this pick 'n' choose mentality is only going to make things get worse, and worse.

[Phatose]

Event exclusives were never actually claimed to be exclusive, so they're irrelevant.  Nor were prime access items - save for the cosmetics, which aren't farmable nor tradable.

[ObviousLee]

Event exclusives were never actually claimed to be exclusive, so they're irrelevant.  Nor were prime access items - save for the cosmetics, which aren't farmable nor tradable.

primed chamber was labled exclusive. lethal torrent was labled exclusive, added to loot table for nightmare. cicero and tethra mods were labled iirc, as event exclusive mods. all, are tradable.

 

and honestly, why is everyone dodging the fact that third party sites are essentially stealing money from warframe BECAUSE they want items they cannot attain FROM DE. so, they go to places that will LET them buy them. the founder exclusivity, is, and has been, a mere illusion. flat out, there are people buying founders items, and accounts, ALREADY. this option, takes that chance away from them. why, is everyone ignoring this, and focusing on "because exclusive"

[TheWebbliestPrime]

How is this a bad thing?

 

Honestly DE need money to produce this game, why should they stop someone buying 5k platinum ?

Because Excalibur Prime isn't worth paying $250 for, and neither are the Prime Skana and Lato.

 

 

On the other hand if one really missed and want's a Founder item one should have the chance to get their hands on them..and i only talk founders items here because you simply payed money for them and had a loooong time to do so without the need of being part of a limited short time event or closed beta tester.

 

My thoughts.

The problem with what you're saying, as well as what Lee's saying, is that by way of allowing the Founders to break those items down and sell them to other players, DE would still be guilty by association of making the items available to non-Founders, as they would be the ones allowing the Founders to do so, which I'm pretty sure was mentioned before as a breach of the digital contract between themselves and the Founders who bought those items, so the Founders who aren't for this are going to call them on it, and it will be a S#&$storm if it does end up being allowed. I know for a fact my co-Warlord would have a problem with it, as we've already spoken on this issue with each other numerous times.

 

The bottom line that I have come to, Lee, is that after reading through every post in here, that no one is/was blocking access to these items as they were available for a very long time(the first half a year I played this game iirc) and if they were late to the concert and the seats were already taken, they have to stand, instead of expecting someone to give up their seat just because they were unaware or too slow to take advantage of the limited time offer/seating, just like the Proto Armor skin for Excal. In a sense, allowing this would be like if a venue welcomed and allowed ticket scalpers. I've seen enough trade chat to know where this would be going, and it would put this stuff on the same level of unaffordability that things like transmute mishaps and Primed Chamber are, which would almost defeat the purpose since I really doubt there are enough people actually willing to pay exorbitant plat prices, let alone buy the immense amount of plat needed, for something that is in essence just a status symbol, seeing as how Excalibur Prime has no redeeming qualities for people who don't play Excalibur(which is a lot of Tenno) other than the exclusivity of having it.

 

I see what you are trying to do here, and while there are things I like about your ideas and your heart is in the right place, sadly many Tennos' hearts and ideas are not, especially the more immature members of the Founder's Special Best Friends Council.

 

Add-on after reading my post: Why are forum posts still censored? This game is rated M, for the love of Blob! UNCENSOR THE FORUMS PLS!

Edited June 8, 2014 by TheWebbliest

[ObviousLee]

Because Excalibur Prime isn't worth paying $250 for, and neither are the Prime Skana and Lato.

 

The problem with what you're saying, as well as what Lee's saying, is that by way of allowing the Founders to break those items down and sell them to other players, DE would still be guilty by association of making the items available to non-Founders, as they would be the ones allowing the Founders to do so, which I'm pretty sure was mentioned before as a breach of the digital contract between themselves and the Founders who bought those items, so the Founders who aren't for this are going to call them on it, and it will be a S#&$storm if it does end up being allowed. I know for a fact my co-Warlord would have a problem with it, as we've already spoken on this issue with each other numerous times.

 

The bottom line that I have come to, Lee, is that after reading through every post in here, that no one is/was blocking access to these items as they were available for a very long time(the first half a year I played this game iirc) and if they were late to the concert and the seats were already taken, they have to stand, instead of expecting someone to give up their seat just because they were unaware or too slow to take advantage of the limited time offer/seating, just like the Proto Armor skin for Excal. In a sense, allowing this would be like if a venue welcomed and allowed ticket scalpers. I've seen enough trade chat to know where this would be going, and it would put this stuff on the same level of unaffordability that things like transmute mishaps and Primed Chamber are, which would almost defeat the purpose since I really doubt there are enough people actually willing to pay exorbitant plat prices, let alone buy the immense amount of plat needed, for something that is in essence just a status symbol, seeing as how Excalibur Prime has no redeeming qualities for people who don't play Excalibur(which is a lot of Tenno) other than the exclusivity of having it.

 

I see what you are trying to do here, and while there are things I like about your ideas and your heart is in the right place, sadly many Tennos' hearts and ideas are not, especially the more immature members of the Founder's Special Best Friends Council.

 

Add-on after reading my post: Why are forum posts still censored? This game is rated M, for the love of Blob! UNCENSOR THE FORUMS PLS!

thank you, for conveying your ideas in a constructive manner, as well as in a way that lays out what you're saying without any egotism involved. this people, is why i asked webby to cast his voice into this: zero. egotism. everyone needs to get rid of the egotism, the specialness, and just you know, talk.

[ObviousLee]

this threads been shot to DE REBECCA and is pending review/positive-negative reaction or thread deletion/locking.

 

add your input while you still can.

Edited June 10, 2014 by ObviousLee

[Katotsu]

I seem to remember you being entirely opposed to Rikov's idea a few months ago, which also wanted to let other players have access to the Founders items.  So, why are you saying you want to give them away sell them now?  Have you changed your mind about letting people have access to Founders items?  Why do you want to do this?  If you just want to profit then F*** you.  I'd rather they remain exclusive then let Founders charge 3k plat for Excal Prime.