Devstream 30: An Unexpectedly Large Blow To My Hopes For The Game

[Cpl_Facehugger]

They are improving the game, but not enough. They once told there was damn too many weapons, but never stopped releasing a new one every single week. (well, one or two weeks they didn't, wow)

 

F2P games are like sharks. If they stop putting out content, they die.

[arisaka]

F2P games are like sharks. If they stop putting out content, they die.

Unlike most F2P games, Warframe constantly receives content when its core mechanisms are still in dire need of complete revamps.

[DiabolusUrsus]

yes, the melee mod system is a good example of what i was meaning.

also optimising particular warframes for specific roles within certain missions, 

and getting good team work going, being effective and having fun, mixing things up & trying to do them differently,  as i said, it's a bit like a puzzle to solve, finding one way, isn't always the only way.

 

Okay, so you really enjoy tinkering with mods. That's fine, but most of the other people here are upset because tinkering with mods isn't enough to keep them occupied. I get where you're coming from. I really do. I like adjusting my loadouts periodically as well. Yet can you really say that making the gameplay more engaging without taking away the "puzzle-solving" element you are so fond of would be problematic or detrimental? Is there something I (or anyone else, for that matter) have suggested here that would ruin the game for you? 

 

F2P games are like sharks. If they stop putting out content, they die.

 

Agreed. Yet at the same time I've yet to see another F2P game put out content at a pace matching Warframe's. Sure, there are bugfixes and other tweaks that roll out every week for active games (Elsword and Hawken being two of the other ones I keep track of,) but Warframe is the only game I have come across that releases new "content" every week. Hawken has a monthly content patch, and it seems to be doing fine. Why? Because the game is pretty engaging on its own. What convinces me to stop playing Hawken is getting long strings of matches pitted against teams of pimped out Berserkers; frustration, not boredom. If Warframe could develop engaging gameplay of its own it could stand to go longer periods of time without sinking due to lack of content.

 

In my eyes, that affords two benefits: 

1. As an engaging game, players are more likely to stick around longer and invest money in the game itself.

2. DE has more grace time to put out new content. The content they release weekly is fairly good, so imagine what they could do with two, three, or even four weeks in between. 

 

The changes to gameplay need to happen, and it's better to start sooner rather than later. They don't even need to do it in overhaul format. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

Other systems, languages, regions, not online every moment of every day.

 

Oh, and this proves nothing based on what you claimed. So let's just call your bull^$#@ what it is, hmm?

 

Besides the fact these numbers were pulled from everywhere despite their timezones (because this chart was TOTALLY a sampling of the guys playing on a Tuesday afternoon at 3 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. PST... Blizzard should be trembling in their snow boots!)

 

Simple division suggests that...

 

Each player has completed 64-65 missions and no more.

 

Each player has crafted 1-2 weapons and no more.

 

A little over one in three players has crafted a Warframe.  EVERYONE that is actually playing past Mars has built a Rhino, except "that one guy."

 

7,818,888 Tenno accounts created.

 

504,213,139 missions completed.

 

13,390,095 weapons crafted.

 

2,426,731 warframes crafted.

 

While yes, these numbers probably don't show the plat purchases, I doubt the plat purchased frame and weapon numbers even approach the crafted numbers in any category, and I know a lot of us on this forum have done well past a hundred missions, let alone 64.

 

So how do you explain this huge disparity in the numbers?  I've got a small collection of guns and frames, so I've covered for at least 10-20 accounts, easy.  A lot of people here have probably covered for near 50 or more.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Littleman88

[Trainsaw]

Loki isn't just "not perfect" in the beginning, he is suicide. Since you didn't seem to grasp what Trainsaw said, allow me to describe my little brother's journey.

 

     Started Mercury after the tutorial. The braton is decent, but he really likes the lato for headshots. He finds a fire mod for his rifle and thinks about equipping it after the mission.  (This was before damage 2.0)He didn't really use his braton, so it isn't high enough in level. He doesn't think that's a big deal and does some grinding. Look at those guys burn!!!He goes through the mission nodes of Mercury, feeling stronger all the time. He finally reaches captain Vor, eager to destroy. He quickly figures out Vor's tricks, and lays into him with his Braton. Hundreds of bullets find their mark, yet he stands. Out of ammo, the Loki switches to his pistol. It runs out. And here he is, with no ammo and no offensive abilities, low health, low shields, and all the speed in the world can't help him. He never found Serration or Hornet Strike on his journey here. (I had more luck as an Excalibur, but I found my first and only Hornet Strike several weeks after I started playing, along with several Serrations) He can't do enough damage no matter what he does. He doesn't have access to the resources needed to make better weapons, and wouldn't have enough money anyway. This is how a beginning Loki feels at every boss encounter. Then there's the normal enemies themselves, shredding through meager shields and flesh alike after any mistake. He gave up for a long time. I'd go over to his computer when he wasn't there and log him in, hoping a log in reward might help him. Sometimes I played missions for him. One day that paid off. I had done a few missions for him when update 10 came about, and 50 platinum was given out to everyone who had played since update 10 due to some incidents involving void drops. He hadn't spent any of his starting plat, and was able to purchase Volt. Since then, he has been enjoying the game greatly.  

 

      If you had started a new game as Loki as was suggested, or at least known someone who went through this very situation, you wouldn't have described beginning Loki's as "not perfect". He got lucky with the surprise platinum. Others won't, and will quit. Imagine how it is now that bleeding procs hit through shields, something he didn't need to deal with.

 

     If I seem aggressive, it's only because I hear things like this all the time when people discuss beginning solo play. "Pretty much the same of co-op", "Can't be that hard". There is no such thing as a teammate reviving you. How many times could you bleed out with full shields before you quit? How many times could you get juggled by shield lancers or ancients while everyone else kills you before you quit? How many times could you completely run out of ammo before you quit? How many times could you get killed through a wall by a railgun moa before you quit? Trip through a laser door and shot? Crisped by a scorch? Try to remember that solo players have a drastically different experience before you recommend a starting frame. Consider this a friendly reminder that you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm on the verge of tears here, my pain is understood and shared.

[cnileoleman]

I'm on the verge of tears here, my pain is understood and shared.

We are the forgotten heroes, those lone Tenno whose victories are ours and ours alone, united through suffering. Bloodied and Broken, we rise again. We rise again.

[Nagisawa]

Other systems, languages, regions, not online every moment of every day.

 

Oh, and this proves nothing based on what you claimed. So let's just call your bull^$#@ what it is, hmm?

So EVERY SINGLE Warframe player still plays, RIGHT NOW.  Because EVERYONE OF THEM ARE ON THE FORUMS.

 

Despite millions of accounts.  And yet, total people on the forums are 739740 as in TOTAL, not on, which is 6000+ at the moment.

 

I call BS on your assumption.

[Nagisawa]

We are the forgotten heroes, those lone Tenno whose victories are ours and ours alone, united through suffering. Bloodied and Broken, we rise again. We rise again.

Amen.

[Innocent_Flower]

7,818,888 Tenno accounts created.

 

504,213,139 missions completed.

 

13,390,095 weapons crafted.

 

2,426,731 warframes crafted.

Holy crap, Is warframe That bad at keeping players? That's abysmal. 

 

 

It's not just that solo players are shafted

Co op is shafted. There's almost nothing that encourages teamwork. Teammates in warframe are only guys who offer the grineer something else to shoot at. 

[Karanak141]

Holy crap, Is warframe That bad at keeping players? That's abysmal. 

 

 

It's not just that solo players are shafted

Co op is shafted. There's almost nothing that encourages teamwork. Teammates in warframe are only guys who offer the grineer something else to shoot at. 

I dont call them teammates i call them a distraction

[notionphil]

Holy crap, Is warframe That bad at keeping players? That's abysmal. 

 

 

It's not just that solo players are shafted

Co op is shafted. There's almost nothing that encourages teamwork. Teammates in warframe are only guys who offer the grineer something else to shoot at.

I've done the math on the numbers (part of my job is analyzing company metrics) and at the time of the release of that infographic WF likely had between ~500k-900k active players. So basically an 8-12% retention rate.

I will spoiler my method in here later in day, if I can find it again.

I don't know stats for other games though so I can't estimate if how bad/good that is. But I do know that avg player counts for WF on steam are nearly identical to what they were a year ago. Before all that "growth".

A possible indication that WF probably has a strong core of hardcore players but the casuals come and go.

[CosyPigeon]

Agree with OP 100%.

Getting real tired of this DE, not that I play Warframe much these days, I keep coming back occasionally hoping the game I backed will appear though. 

[SlyBoots]

Besides the fact these numbers were pulled from everywhere despite their timezones (because this chart was TOTALLY a sampling of the guys playing on a Tuesday afternoon at 3 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. PST... Blizzard should be trembling in their snow boots!)

 

Simple division suggests that...

 

Each player has completed 64-65 missions and no more.

 

Each player has crafted 1-2 weapons and no more.

 

A little over one in three players has crafted a Warframe.  EVERYONE that is actually playing past Mars has built a Rhino, except "that one guy."

 

7,818,888 Tenno accounts created.

 

504,213,139 missions completed.

 

13,390,095 weapons crafted.

 

2,426,731 warframes crafted.

 

While yes, these numbers probably don't show the plat purchases, I doubt the plat purchased frame and weapon numbers even approach the crafted numbers in any category, and I know a lot of us on this forum have done well past a hundred missions, let alone 64.

 

So how do you explain this huge disparity in the numbers?  I've got a small collection of guns and frames, so I've covered for at least 10-20 accounts, easy.  A lot of people here have probably covered for near 50 or more.

 

edit: can't really comment without an uncomfortable amount of snark/sarcasm. DE dropped the ball, dunno if we've heard the impact yet...

Edited June 11, 2014 by SlyBoots

[blackstraykitten]

when i saw the stream the only thing that i liked was the jumping moa

[Little-Cunny]

To make melee ....viable, all DE has to do is take a page from Metal Gear Rising. I mean can you imagine parrying Lephantis Scythe Head and leaping on it to deal massive damage??

[CBAROG]

To make melee ....viable, all DE has to do is take a page from Metal Gear Rising. I mean can you imagine parrying Lephantis Scythe Head and leaping on it to deal massive damage??

QTE? I'm fine with it, but some people will complain.

[DiabolusUrsus]

QTE? I'm fine with it, but some people will complain.

 

Are we talking quick-time event as in "hit the attack button as fast as you can to take advantage of this attack animation it was hard to get into," or QTE as in "Press this button now! Press that button now! Press another button now! You missed that one? Failure?" If it's the former, I don't mind that. If it's the latter, I absolutely despise that. 

Not that synced-up damage combos need to be implemented as QTEs. I was rather disappointed at how little parkour actually factored into Lephantis, when it was hinted (multiple times, IIRC) that the boss would be big enough for that sort of movement to be needed. As soon as I found out it was possible to land smack dab in the middle of the three heads on its back, I was even more disappointed that doing so didn't let me unleash some respectable melee damage. 

[SockBadger]

Support this topic, upvote OP right now!

 

Also, spare any platinum for a Tenno beggar? *nods towards and upturned Arcane helmet with some change and control modules in it*

[CBAROG]

Are we talking quick-time event as in "hit the attack button as fast as you can to take advantage of this attack animation it was hard to get into," or QTE as in "Press this button now! Press that button now! Press another button now! You missed that one? Failure?" If it's the former, I don't mind that. If it's the latter, I absolutely despise that. 

Not that synced-up damage combos need to be implemented as QTEs. I was rather disappointed at how little parkour actually factored into Lephantis, when it was hinted (multiple times, IIRC) that the boss would be big enough for that sort of movement to be needed. As soon as I found out it was possible to land smack dab in the middle of the three heads on its back, I was even more disappointed that doing so didn't let me unleash some respectable melee damage. 

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. But if he wants something like Revengeance it's a mix of both. And, yeah, second type of QTE's is not what I would want.

[Moderius]

QTE? I'm fine with it, but some people will complain.

 

QTE in co-op fast-paced games, you are fine with?

 

Never ever ever ever be a game designer. Even when well-implemented, it is flow-breaking.

[CBAROG]

Don't worry. I'll never be a game designer. Also, QTE's in boss fights is a thing I'm fine with, not QTE's in the middle of combat with a dozen Grineer.

[Mak_Gohae]

Holy crap, Is warframe That bad at keeping players? That's abysmal. 

 

 

How does that show Warframe is bad at keeping players?

[Awazx]

+1 OP

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

To make melee ....viable, all DE has to do is take a page from Metal Gear Rising. I mean can you imagine parrying Lephantis Scythe Head and leaping on it to deal massive damage??

 

If you mean QTE, then no. QTE should die horrifically in a fire... and then be stabbed, just to make sure.  

 

There's no reason why certain bosses' weak points shouldn't be targeted using the current melee system, it's just that at the moment you can't. I had some free time and took on Sargus Ruk, no melee hits. The same can be said for Lech Krill. Players already have the agility and parkour moves to place their attacks, and the telegraphs for boss attacks and weak points are already there, but why can't they be targeted? 

 

Why start sticking QTEs into things.

Edited June 11, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[calabi]

It is crazy that the majority of players dont get far beyond one warframe and a few weapons.  The player retention is really worrying, that should be their number one focus.  Retaining players and the new player experience.  Not creating more content to gate behind the rng grind.