Is The Idea Of Mono-Tenno And Poly-Tenno More Obscure Than Ever?

[FalsePride]

  -snip-

i think the existence of multiple tenno is apparent. mainly because of the existence of alliances, clans, and the fact that u have to "survive" as a distraction for a seperate Tenno group to raid the ship. also when defending a cryo tube ur saving a fellow tenno. there is multitudes of evidence. but none of it points to u sharing the frames u make with them, there in lies the predicament.

 

with my stance being any tenno can use any frame if their affinity is high enough. with my reasons being stated earlier in this post.

[Ja_man]

Just wondering, has the proxy frame theory been disproven or is it a viable viewpoint for me to support? 

I like to think that the humans inside frames are or were real people, supporting Steve's statement that there is a human in each frame. I also think that one person is controlling each of the frames* through some sci fi mind ability. I support this with affinity for leveled weapons being shared by all frames. If you max out the braton with nova, you can still switch to Vauban and use it at the same level because the player has been using it. The human inside Nova and Vauban are different, but the one who uses them has used Nova, gained affinity with the Braton, than decided to use Vauban. The player still retains all the affinity of the Braton since he already used it with Nova. 

 

* one person meaning the player and each of the frames meaning the frames that player has unlocked

Edited June 21, 2014 by Ja_man

[FalsePride]

Just wondering, has the proxy frame theory been disproven or is it a viable viewpoint for me to support? 

I like to think that the humans inside frames are or were real people, supporting Steve's statement that there is a human in each frame. I also think that one person is controlling each of the frames* through some sci fi mind ability. I support this with affinity for leveled weapons being shared by all frames. If you max out the braton with nova, you can still switch to Vauban and use it at the same level because the player has been using it. The human inside Nova and Vauban are different, but the one who uses them has used Nova, gained affinity with the Braton, than decided to use Vauban. The player still retains all the affinity of the Braton since he already used it with Nova. 

 

* one person meaning the player and each of the frames meaning the frames that player has unlocked

a big problem with this is where would the tenno in the frame come from?

 

you dont build a tenno nor do u have to aqcuire one before having the frame, so do u just have piles of tenno laying around to stuff into these suits?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

i think the existence of multiple tenno is apparent. mainly because of the existence of alliances, clans, and the fact that u have to "survive" as a distraction for a seperate Tenno group to raid the ship. also when defending a cryo tube ur saving a fellow tenno. there is multitudes of evidence. but none of it points to u sharing the frames u make with them, there in lies the predicament.

 

with my stance being any tenno can use any frame if their affinity is high enough. with my reasons being stated earlier in this post.

 

   That isn't as strong a point as it might sound. Nobody is arguing that there aren't multiple Tenno in the Warframe universe. The question is, does the player take the role of a single tenno or many, or some combination of the two. It is a little weird that when a clan gives an invite they are accepting the players herd of Tenno, assuming that is how it works, but not impossible either.

 

Just wondering, has the proxy frame theory been disproven or is it a viable viewpoint for me to support? 

I like to think that the humans inside frames are or were real people, supporting Steve's statement that there is a human in each frame. I also think that one person is controlling each of the frames* through some sci fi mind ability. I support this with affinity for leveled weapons being shared by all frames. If you max out the braton with nova, you can still switch to Vauban and use it at the same level because the player has been using it. The human inside Nova and Vauban are different, but the one who uses them has used Nova, gained affinity with the Braton, than decided to use Vauban. The player still retains all the affinity of the Braton since he already used it with Nova. 

 

* one person meaning the player and each of the frames meaning the frames that player has unlocked

 

  Yes, it is still viable.

[FalsePride]

   That isn't as strong a point as it might sound. Nobody is arguing that there aren't multiple Tenno in the Warframe universe. The question is, does the player take the role of a single tenno or many, or some combination of the two. It is a little weird that when a clan gives an invite they are accepting the players herd of Tenno, assuming that is how it works, but not impossible either.

 

ok i miss understood the main point then. my bad

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

a big problem with this is where would the tenno in the frame come from?

 

you dont build a tenno nor do u have to aqcuire one before having the frame, so do u just have piles of tenno laying around to stuff into these suits?

 

  We don't know that we don't build a Tenno in the process of building a frame. But, the Tenno could also come from the zillion missions where we recover Tenno's from pods. Like the cryo room in the clan that just has stacks of pods inside it. I wonder what it is implying there.

[Ja_man]

a big problem with this is where would the tenno in the frame come from?

 

you dont build a tenno nor do u have to aqcuire one before having the frame, so do u just have piles of tenno laying around to stuff into these suits?

 

I would fall upon a previous post where someone mentioned the possibility the tenno were just thrown into the void to become the super soldiers if they made it through. Each part of the warframe (systems chassis helmet) contains a piece of a tenno inside it. once the 3 parts are found theyre frankensteined together. but who cares about the mis-matching of body parts?  they're not the ones actually in control.

 

Edit: a bit of rewording

 

Looking back, this seems to rely on knowledge of what happens to the tenno within the void, which I don't think will be released soon, if ever.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Ja_man

[Legion-Shields]

i dont believe the poly tenno theory for a few main reasons.

 

1. this event. the "stink" stays with you no matter what your frame. so unless ur tennos get hot and heavy on each other. i vote one person.

 

2. many if not all the frames are materialzed base off mythological/ idealogical/ theoretcial things, them being in the shape of a man or woman could just show the respect and honor they hold for each one, going into battle weilding this honor. i dont think just cause its in a different shape  means it HAS to be mulptiple people.

 

3. u build the frames as suits. true they dont say another tenno comes along and takes a ride in it. but truthfuly they haven't said either way.

 

4.You start of with 1 of 3 frames, and then can immediately run with another frame without even so much as completing one mission. now where are u going to find another tenno just willing to join u that fast after near death?

 

5. and finally mastery rank requirements. why would u need a mastery rank to have a rhino, unless "he" thinks your so beneath him he wont even wear the suit u made "him". more likely u havent had enough discipline to control its power yet.

 

i also dont believe in possesion theories, but transferable consciousness its a more feasible perspective, even tho i dont like the idea of comatose bodies laying around. and remote controlled? what kinda ninja is too scared to go out there on there own, not one ide like to be.

you seem to be very confident that ten no do no get hot and heavy on each other.

[RancidTurnip1603]

I view it as mono-tenno, but you have ability to change on a whim because video game.

 

What if each player is a Hive-mind between small squads of tenno? Poly-tenno but singular consciousness, and you regularly get hot and heavy with yourself?

Edited June 21, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[Amazerath]

Discuss.

 

I think you're expecting too much "sense" from an online game. To me it works just like in any MMO. You can have many completely different characters but you're still the same player controlling all of them. If you try to make the "player" become part of the actual game things start to get weird.

 

I just accept the fact that not everything is supposed to make sense because it is a game, not reality. Heck, even the real world doesn't make much sense. I mean, come on... black holes eating up galaxies? Dark energy? Gravity? That's nuts!

[Mak_Gohae]

I would fall upon a previous post where someone mentioned the possibility the tenno were just thrown into the void to become the super soldiers if they made it through. Each part of the warframe (systems chassis helmet) contains a piece of a tenno inside it. once the 3 parts are found theyre frankensteined together. but who cares about the mis-matching of body parts?  they're not the ones actually in control.

 

Edit: a bit of rewording

 

Looking back, this seems to rely on knowledge of what happens to the tenno within the void, which I don't think will be released soon, if ever.

 

The Excalibur codex clearly states that the Tenno came back as Tenno then a frame was built so they could use their powers.

 

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction.

[Brontolith]

Game play wise you might have 4 o the same frames in a mission.

Until anything is officially stated the way I think about it is there's only 25 separate individual Tenno all of which have their own frames. More being added to the game means more that are being awakened by the lotus.

That's just my take on it.

[Ja_man]

The Excalibur codex clearly states that the Tenno came back as Tenno then a frame was built so they could use their powers.

 

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction.

That doesn't tell if they are still the same person they went in as. do they still have full control over themselves? or are they just sort of comatose beings that need the suit and player in order to function?

[Mak_Gohae]

That doesn't tell if they are still the same person they went in as. do they still have full control over themselves? or are they just sort of comatose beings that need the suit and player in order to function?

 

You play the Tenno you dont play a controller. You are woken up and told how go ahead and ninja.

[Acos]

I like the role-play aspects of it being multiple Tenno. The more recent lore entries seem to support a poly-tenno ideology as well. At the same time, it's implied that there are more than just one of each frame as well; Ember Prime entry implies that there is at least an entire frigate full of potential 'Ember' children. Most of the things that run counter to the lore I feel is being established are typically gameplay elements. It would make more sense if you just sort of "added" ember to your team rather than had to build her suit for her first, but eh. 

I don't know if we'll ever know for certain, but the actual lore seems to suggest poly-tenno. I can't recall anything that supports "spirit jumping" or "shape-shifting". 
 

*EDIT: It dawned on me after making my post that the Tenno within the Crypods of a defense missions do not actually come pre-equipped with a suit. Given the amount of defense missions we do there probably is no end to Tenno just sitting around without anything to pilot before we personally get around to building them a Warframe. Obviously I'm stretching to make gameplay fit with the poly-tenno theory, but it works well enough for me to at least throw it out there. 

Edited June 22, 2014 by Acos

[LukeAura]

I think the key word in the op's quote is 'corpse', for the conscience/soul theory. 
This means they either kill the tenno before dissecting them, or more likely as we saw from Alad V they would experiment on live Tenno which would make sense if they wanted to best understand Tenno. But in tearing off their armor they find a seemingly already dead body.

If you believe the squad of Tenno theory, then it would make sense to think that these are a squad that You are creating the training 'focus' plan for, so naturally they would tend to learn the same skills as each other as far as that system goes.

I personally think of it somewhere in the middle. We do train a squad of Tenno, but not 20+ of them, only as many as there are varying body types. 
Ember and Saryn are probably one Tenno in your team as they are both tall and athletic females, but Nova is a different Tenno from them and is probably also the one who pilots your Mag frame because they are both smaller and a little less athletically built. I think Abilities also back this idea up. Ember and Saryn focus on high damage DoTs and both have an offensive buff in their respective elements, While Nova and Mag have great skills for dealing with clustered enemies, M prime/AMD and Bullet Attractor/Shield Polarize.

 

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

I've always seen it as multiple tenno. I've also always assumed there was only one of each tenno. There's only one Mag, one Loki, etc. Obviously, this doesn't jive with in-game appearances, where you can control multiple tenno and people can go into the mission with the same tenno (e.g. two lokis), but that is the separation between lore and gameplay.

 

Looking at it from strictly a lore perspective, children were sent into the void and came back with mutant powers. That's simplifying it quite a bit, but it's accurate (see ember prime lore). I find it highly unlikely and pretty disappointing to have multiple magic space mutant wizards come back with exactly the same powerset. Likewise, if there were a thousand Mags, Lokis, Excals, and so on, the solar system would be lousy with all the tennocicles hidden around it.

 

This doesn't jive with having Pendragon Excal sliced up in the Profit trailer, but I don't think DE wanted to invent a whole new warframe just to kill it forever.

 

So one of each Tenno/Warframe and each Tenno/Warframe is a unique person. Inconsistencies with this are the divide between lore and gameplay, just like being able to go kill Vor in the void, then on Mercury, then in the Void again.

Edited June 23, 2014 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I've always seen it as multiple tenno. I've also always assumed there was only one of each tenno. There's only one Mag, one Loki, etc. Obviously, this doesn't jive with in-game appearances, where you can control multiple tenno and people can go into the mission with the same tenno (e.g. two lokis), but that is the separation between lore and gameplay.

 

Looking at it from strictly a lore perspective, children were sent into the void and came back with mutant powers. That's simplifying it quite a bit, but it's accurate (see ember prime lore). I find it highly unlikely and pretty disappointing to have multiple magic space mutant wizards come back with exactly the same powerset. Likewise, if there were a thousand Mags, Lokis, Excals, and so on, the solar system would be lousy with all the tennocicles hidden around it.

 

This doesn't jive with having Pendragon Excal sliced up in the Profit trailer, but I don't think DE wanted to invent a whole new warframe just to kill it forever.

 

So one of each Tenno/Warframe and each Tenno/Warframe is a unique person. Inconsistencies with this are the divide between lore and gameplay, just like being able to go kill Vor in the void, then on Mercury, then in the Void again.

 

 

  As always anybodies interpretation is as valid as any other. As you mention from the video where the Pendragon/Immortal skin Excalibur is killed, that just further indicates, to me, that the frames are models, like chassis of a car. Different dressing for each Tenno that puts it on. DE has said that their is a Tenno wearing each suit. But, it doesn't say that there are necessarily multiple Tenno all wearing the suits at the same time.

 

  Who and what the relationship is with the Tenno is the suit and the player is not clear, and left to interpretation. Things like the Focus System, Master Rank, and Affinity suggest a single Tenno, or some form of Prime/Avatar Tenno. Either this Single Tenno shapeshifts to wear the different suits–Rhino, Nyx, for example–or a proxy system is employed, like a form of remote control, essentially the frames are worn by SubTenno vessels for the PrimeTenno. 

 

  That would be a mix of the MonoTenno and the PolyTenno theories, and I think that is the only way to currently explain it given the mechanics, lore, and in game examples. All that could change at anytime, if and when DE decides to.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

DE did say that they have concepts for what each tenno looks like under the armor that they just aren't releasing. This would indicate that each Warframe has a unique pilot and that the pilots are all distinct entities. I really doubt they'd make concept art of a hokey TOS energy cloud/floating consciousness thing.

 

Like I said, you need to separate the lore from the gameplay, unless you think a bunch of magic space ninjas are also spamming an IRC-based chat with WTS LOTS OF STUFF PLZ PM.

[FalsePride]

DE did say that they have concepts for what each tenno looks like under the armor that they just aren't releasing. This would indicate that each Warframe has a unique pilot and that the pilots are all distinct entities. I really doubt they'd make concept art of a hokey TOS energy cloud/floating consciousness thing.

 

Like I said, you need to separate the lore from the gameplay, unless you think a bunch of magic space ninjas are also spamming an IRC-based chat with WTS LOTS OF STUFF PLZ PM.

citation? ide love to find out for sure rather than a a lot of opinions 

[LukeAura]

Looking at it from strictly a lore perspective, children were sent into the void and came back with mutant powers. That's simplifying it quite a bit, but it's accurate (see ember prime lore). I find it highly unlikely and pretty disappointing to have multiple magic space mutant wizards come back with exactly the same powerset. Likewise, if there were a thousand Mags, Lokis, Excals, and so on, the solar system would be lousy with all the tennocicles hidden around it.

Only if you consider each Mag, Loki, Excal a suit that is worn by a person with the powers of the matching frame. 

I find it far more likely that each child that went in came back with a more raw form of void power, with variations in that raw power being dependent on the genetics of the child, that then requires a catalyst to focus it in to more controllable and recognizable effects, the frame. 

This is why the closer in physicality two frames appear to be, the closer their abilities seem to be each other. 

Ember and Saryn, two tall and fairly athletic frames both focus on powerful DoTs. 

While Mag and Nova, two very short and less athletic frames focus on burst damage and grouped targets. Nova also uses magnetism to control her antimatter, so there is that as well. 

 

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

citation?

 

Honestly, I distinctly remember it being said, but I don't have an encyclopedic memory of all the prime times, devstreams, and forum comments that it might have been said in.

 

 

 

Only if you consider each Mag, Loki, Excal a suit that is worn by a person with the powers of the matching frame. 

I find it far more likely that each child that went in came back with a more raw form of void power, with variations in that raw power being dependent on the genetics of the child, that then requires a catalyst to focus it in to more controllable and recognizable effects, the frame. 

This is why the closer in physicality two frames appear to be, the closer their abilities seem to be each other. 

Ember and Saryn, two tall and fairly athletic frames both focus on powerful DoTs. 

While Mag and Nova, two very short and less athletic frames focus on burst damage and grouped targets. Nova also uses magnetism to control her antimatter, so there is that as well.

 

Ember Prime codex entry.

Three figures waited behind a simple table. Their attention on a single chair, bathed in light. An old woman's voice from the shadow: 'Send her in'. Across the room a security officer, stern and plain, opened the door. The outline of a young woman appeared at the door. She hesitated, but only for an instant, then crossed the room and sat.

 

There was a gasp as the light hit her face. Her right eye was bright and blinking, but her left was a greasy slit. Her skin had been burned moon-white. Her mouth was a sagging gash without lips or expression. Her military beret was pulled snug over a scarred and hairless scalp.

 

The old voice: 'Your name is Kaleen.' Kaleen nodded. 'You were the principal investigator of the Zariman?' Kaleen's voice was a jagged whisper, a rigid face. 'Yes.'

 

Kaleen coughed, straightened: 'The Zariman was lost making the fold from Saturn to the Outer gates. Mechanical failure. I notified families and filled a report with the inspectors. Nothing ever returns from the fold, so I closed the case.'

'But you reopened the case, days later.'

 

'I didn't believe it myself until I stepped aboard the ship. It was completely intact, full environmental, as if it had never left.'

'And the crew was gone.'

 

'Not exactly.' Kaleen hesitated. 'We thought it was empty but we began to find...' Her face twitched at remembered pain, 'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'

 

'And that is when you violated procedure?'

 

Kaleen bowed her head, a tear welling in her sightless eye. 'They were children. They were afraid. They needed comfort.'

'So you broke quarantine and this happened to you.'

 

There was silence as Kaleen touched her face, 'So what have you done with them?'

 

The old woman gestured for the officer to take Kaleen away. The meeting was over. When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on military ship?'

 

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.'

 

Ember very specifically had fire-based powers as a child who had just been changed by the void. Not vague "space energy" things; this very specifically mentions being burned.

 

Also Ember and Saryn have different heights and builds.

 

Again, based on the lore, it seems very improbable that the Orokin had a secret military program to put ten thousand children on a military ship. It makes far more sense that there's just one ember, who was one unique child, and having multiple embers between players, and players having multiple warframes, is a gameplay conceit so the game's audience isn't limited to 20 people who are forever locked into a single character.

 

You must also consider the Mag and Excalibur lore entries, that mention Excalibur, not an Excalibur "was the first" and that Mag's mentions a significant number of the Orokin military didn't even believe the Tenno existed. It makes no sense for there to be hundreds or thousands of Tenno and still have them remain a ghost story in the age when they would have been the most plentiful.

Edited June 23, 2014 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[BMKing]

Right I specifically remember that comment, I am tempted to say Steve said the frame had a certain gender, not the Tenno, and the reason not to have gender swaps was more to keep a consistent character to the frames. The elegance of nyx might be lost on the male version, as a quick example. I'll dig around for that comment because I'm that bored right now and we'll see.

 

I think he said in an interview that there's difference between the Warframe itself and the Tenno inside, in response to a question about whether there was one player Tenno or multiple.

 

Personally, I like the idea of one myself. Given that it's stated there are multiple copies of Warframe templates (based on an original Tenno, presumably a custom suit), it doesn't seem unreasonable that they can switch out Warframes. This is supported by discussion on the last Devstream about the player ships, and the contraption used to switch Warframes.

 

I've always leaned towards the idea of them being ethereal or energy-based, at least in part, due to the void, that they're mutable enough to fit the frame. Vor might support this with his immortality (it's been mentioned by Alad V that Tenno have 'nine lives' and that would justify surviving failed missions). The cryopod suggests that they're humanoid beings, which is fine, though mutability wouldn't be a stretch (so to speak). Or it could be a host body, or just represent a 'generic' Warframe.

 

I find it more interesting than the poly-Tenno, because it fits better with the idea that we're an individual operative mastering an arsenal of ancient gear, and possessing inhuman power and form. If we were described as being a controller like Lotus, it'd be another story, but Tenno are equated with being in their frames. It seems mono-Tenno is the more supported.

[(PSN)JoeyTwoShoes]

I don't think there is much of a point to trying to convince anyone of either idea. Personally, I'm a supporter of the poly-Tenno theory, but until DE states or otherwise makes it clear which theory is true, they are just that, theories.

 

Until then it is kinda pointless to say that this theory is true or that one is because none of them have been confirmed, making this speculation. I think it is best if, until DE takes a stance on either theory (assuming they ever do) to just believe in your theory for yourself. If you think that you play as one Tenno and each suit is just that, then play believing you are one Tenno. If you (like me) believe that each suit has a different Tenno, then play believing that each of your frames is a different Tenno.