Why Are Accessories So Useless?

[Kestral9999]

Is OP serious or good troll?

 

Now I'll be serious. The whole reason DE went through the trouble of removing stats from helms is they didn't want a character's appearance options decided upon based on the stats they give. I'm glad because otherwise we'd end up having identical looking frames(except for colors) running around as, invariably, the community will settle on an "optimum build." DE further stated future visual accessories will be stat-less, cosmetic only.

A bit of both. In this particular instance I was serious. But, I'm new to the forum and I just thought I'd post a topic relating to my personal opinion. It makes total sense now that the point has been beaten in relentlessly that cosmetics shouldn't have stats, but I had no idea that this apparently was the first idea ever proposed on here and its been floating around the forums forever only to draw in every negative remark within fifty miles of it, and that everyone is vehemently against the idea. Now I am too, way to go community. Way to annihilate indiviualistic thought.

[Worira]

Assimilation complete.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

Ya no.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Gammaion]

I don't agree with this idea, but IF this was a possibility, perhaps they could be added to alerts just like the Arcane Helmets once were. Problem solved, not P2W.

 

DE removed Arcane Helmets though. They don't want cosmetics to have stats.

[SirAuron]

Not too long ago helmets had stats, but it was later decided that cosmetics should not have them at all, and that decision is governing all cosmetics from here on out. Helmets, armor, syandanas, and all future accessories will not have stats.

Look slike a reason to stop providing new helmets via alerts. A reason they hath giveth themselves so they can doeth this. So no new helmets or any other items in alerts now? The only thing to look forward to is Catalyst. The only thing that matters. Everything else is ancient.

Edited June 23, 2014 by SirAuron

[Cabadath5]

I want this game to turn the pay to win up to eleven please!

HAHA no.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Cabadath5

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I'm new to the forum, forgive me if I'm tossing around ideas that have been "discussed to death"

Sorry you are receiving a lot of flak about his subject. It seems from a lot of the posts here are not productive in relaying their opinions of the matter.

No one should be treating your post with this amount of detest to actually make you feel "inadequate". 

 

Which is no way to treat someone new to the Warframe Forums at all.

 

I support some accessories being implemented with stats. As it is now, new players can't obtain stat helmets which is a unfair factor of itself. The whole armor accessory to me is a joke. Armor is supposed to have benefits or don't call it armor. That is my opinion. However, DE did state in a stream they are looking for a way to implement stats without angering the majority crowd.

 

So, the only thing I can suggest is that you keep up posting on here and try to funnel some support for it. So, that it can actually be continuously on DE's desk. +1 OP I support the majority of your idea with the exception that there is a option to de-stat equipment. That way the "nay" sayers have a choice in the matter, and actually won't bash the idea to death. Like it already has been in previous threads.

 

**They will also need to include the accessories in the alert table or some sort of way to acquire it without plat. So, that it isn't the (pay to win scenario)** with these exceptions I know you would have more support in the matter than just a "No" response.

Edited June 23, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

I myself like this idea and think it would be cool if we could give our armors additional stats if wanted - make the mod cards buyable on the market and ready to be used on any armor. Name each mod with a name that kind of hints at the armor set they were inspired by, but do not restrict them to being worn on any specific armor..

For instance, an Edo Armor mod (name it whatever you want) can translate into faster strikes by so much of a percent, reflecting the speed of a samurai of ancient times. A Daedalus Armor mod can increase your armor because, based on the Daedalus armor's looks (klnda bulky). An Eos Armor mod can cause your health to increase your energy regeneration rate because the Goddess Eos rose at the dawn of each morning - the whole restart of a new day and solar thing there.

As I said, these mods are simply named after the armors they are inspired off of, but they can be applied to any armor you so choose.

There's something for thought.

[Tsukinoki]

@-SLX-J3tAc3
Only issue with that is what to do with people who dont like the armor on certain frames?  Or who happen to like the default accessories (Banshee's shoulder, frosts vents among others)
Such as with proto-armor excal.  I dont equip any accessories on him as I think that they ruin the look largely.
Unless you can apply all of those mods without equipping any armor at all then they are still forcing people to use cosmetics or be gimping themselves.  And I really dont think that something that can *hugely* affect how a warframe looks in a cosmetic way should be forced on the player.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Yep, that's what I said. Any stat mod can be used on any set, we simply name them and give them stats based upon this or that aspect of an armor set, so if you wanted to use, say, Shinigami Strike (it gives the melee speed boost and the card's artwork is based upon the samurai aspect of the Edo Armor), you can use it on any armor piece you want, be it the new armors or your default armors - up to you to make your frame the way you want.

The effects can be capped at some specific level. It can be a corrupted mod or just a regular mod (whatever folks like best), but this would not be in the drop pool - purchasable from the market only.

Edited June 24, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[MechaTails]

I still don't understand how stats on armors is a problem in this game.

 

•This isn't a PvP game. You're never forced to fight other players. I rarely see anyone in game wanting to do PvP, aside from clan mates who just want to goof around.

 

•Others players having +10% Stamina doesn't affect you in any significant way. It can only help you since they're on your team.

 

•How much progress other players pay for doesn't affect you in any significant way (it actually helps you if you have a rich guy in your clan building and funding and rushing everything)

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Nor do I, DarkTails, and good points.

[SirAuron]

I still don't understand how stats on armors is a problem in this game.

 

•This isn't a PvP game. You're never forced to fight other players. I rarely see anyone in game wanting to do PvP, aside from clan mates who just want to goof around.

 

•Others players having +10% Stamina doesn't affect you in any significant way. It can only help you since they're on your team.

 

•How much progress other players pay for doesn't affect you in any significant way (it actually helps you if you have a rich guy in your clan building and funding and rushing everything)

Yet, some are hating on vanguard Rhino due to it's speed and and now hating on Vanguard Rhino Prime(and how the helmet messes well with prime encouraging the use of vanguard on prime) because it totally demolishes their idea of a tank but no one cares about their idea of what a tank is. They even sparked some stupid debate over what a tank is. The damn community is fool of fools and idealist trying to force their ideas of what should be on other people like how Vanguard Rhino is improper due to speed. Who cares if a tank moves fast, thats unique. Besides, he is a ninja, he should be fast unless he's a spartan.

 

But no one understands that Ninjas move fast, not slow and the Lokis are jealous of Vanguard Prime's speed. They always compare him to loki. It's obvious they are the ones up in arms about Vanguard. And it is Volt that should be the fastest, not Loki. Volt Prime best be faster than Loki, at least when using speed and be faster than Nova at least by default.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

@-SLX-J3tAc3

Only issue with that is what to do with people who dont like the armor on certain frames?  Or who happen to like the default accessories (Banshee's shoulder, frosts vents among others)

Such as with proto-armor excal.  I dont equip any accessories on him as I think that they ruin the look largely.

Unless you can apply all of those mods without equipping any armor at all then they are still forcing people to use cosmetics or be gimping themselves.  And I really dont think that something that can *hugely* affect how a warframe looks in a cosmetic way should be forced on the player.

There are already helmets out there so what your saying here gives limited customization. 

 

How is anyone gimping themselves if the options are clearly optional? The player can select which ever look he wants but customize for whatever. It isn't a requirement. It is completely the players choice. 

 

Plus, aren't warframes currently not balanced with the current system? I mean 4 ability slots which take up much needed space for your warframe. You can really only use 6 (vs 8 on weapons) slots to customize your warframe at which I can pretty much guess alot of players have traded polarities to try to balance their warframe by taking out a ability. This shouldn't happen.

 

No one is forced to use a accessory. That is the players choice. No dynamic forces anyone to choose it as it is now. Even if there were stats on them, that would be the players decision. Those stats can be interchangeable between sets or let the player choose a boost as replacement. I don't see your argument here. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[NixinVictus]

Armor should totally have base stats.  ARMOR stats.  They could all have a +10 or 20% armor.  All equal.  There.  Done.  Sure, make them moddable.  Great idea.  Otherwise, don't call it ARMOR!  That's just ri-frickin-diculous.  Hell, do the same thing with the helmets.

 

Don't compare them to the helmets.  The helmets were alert mission rewards.  The Armor is bought with plat.  Totally different.  

 

No, that doesn't make it P2W.  Why?  Because the game IS P2W already!  Anyone that doesn't think this is deluding themselves.  Let me take you on a magical journey.  The game is called Warframe.  It is a never ending grind.  Free, you can get 2, maybe 3 warframes.  There are a great many more frames than that.  A major point of the game is to try them out to find the one that "fits" you and your aesthetic.  Guess how you get more?  You have to PAY FOR IT!!!!!!  There has NEVER been a reward that nets you a new frame or a slot for one.  No VANDAL frame.  No Wraith Frame.  You can get more weapons for free.  You can earn a free weapon slot almost once a month or so with the event rewards.  That is cool.  That is also not very often., therefore, Pay to Win.

 

You don't want any armor on your frame because it will hurt the look?  You still have the frame itself hurting the aesthetic. There are frames that I like using because I like their abilities more than others that have some parts about their frame that I find more appealing.  It's called not having everything handed to you on a platter.  It's called having to choose.  Besides, once you get powerful enough, a small stat boost itself becomes an aesthetic, and no matter what you do or how good you are in this game, there is ALWAYS going to be someone who's played longer and payed a lot of money and is a LOT more powerful than you because of how much monies they payed.  That IS Pay To Win.  But, as it was pointed out, this is PVE, so all that does is further help the squad.  IT HINDERS YOU NOT.

[Hexagoros]

The sole purpose of their existence is to make yourself look cool.  That's the whole point.  

 

After the helmet situation, you can bet the farm that all future cosmetics will not ever have stats of them.

[Athros]

Armor should totally have base stats.  ARMOR stats.  They could all have a +10 or 20% armor.  All equal.  There.  Done.  Sure, make them moddable.  Great idea.  Otherwise, don't call it ARMOR!  That's just ri-frickin-diculous.  Hell, do the same thing with the helmets.

 

Don't compare them to the helmets.  The helmets were alert mission rewards.  The Armor is bought with plat.  Totally different.  

 

No, that doesn't make it P2W.  Why?  Because the game IS P2W already!  Anyone that doesn't think this is deluding themselves.  Let me take you on a magical journey.  The game is called Warframe.  It is a never ending grind.  Free, you can get 2, maybe 3 warframes.  There are a great many more frames than that.  A major point of the game is to try them out to find the one that "fits" you and your aesthetic.  Guess how you get more?  You have to PAY FOR IT!!!!!!  There has NEVER been a reward that nets you a new frame or a slot for one.  No VANDAL frame.  No Wraith Frame.  You can get more weapons for free.  You can earn a free weapon slot almost once a month or so with the event rewards.  That is cool.  That is also not very often., therefore, Pay to Win.

 

If Warframe's Pay4Convenience was considered as Pay2Win, then other P2W in korean/japanese MMORPGs must be considered as Pay2beAGod.

 

The only thing that matters which is buyable by plat are slots. And you can easily workaround the need of it; SOLD THE THING YOU LEAST LIKED/USED.

 

You want that one solid frame that fits your gameplay and totally looks rad while you have no empty slot? Sold the frame you least liked/used. Done.

You want that supah awesome weapon that you eagerly wanted to put your hands on while you have no empty slot? Sold the weapon you least liked/used. Done.

 

It was only a matter of slot for the options that available; the options itself were as much as everyone else. Therefore, it's not Pay2Win; it's Pay4Convenience.

[Zurakci]

Why Accessories are useless comes to the (and not take these personally to all other people out there) scrubs and newbies out there who constantly complaining about stuff giving stats and they cant have it cause they dont wanna use money on the game and Waah waah.

 

Its a reason Arcane helmets are no more. Cause of the constant bickering about it being pay to win when it never was.

 

Plus I like the armor sets without any bonuses. Makes it easier to customize the looks of a warframe without having to think "S#&$ if I do this, then he will suck" and so on. Accessories are just ment to be accessories. pretty stuff. Making you FEEL special, while they dont boost anything else than visuals. 

[IfritKajiTora]

I would like to send stats of helmets to my Prime helmets or just delete all stat helmets already no Arcanes. And I could use my Prime helmets. Only Rhino Prime have weak looking helmet I like 2 custom helmets more but its only my opinion

[Tsukinoki]

There are already helmets out there so what your saying here gives limited customization. 

 

How is anyone gimping themselves if the options are clearly optional? The player can select which ever look he wants but customize for whatever. It isn't a requirement. It is completely the players choice. 

 

Plus, aren't warframes currently not balanced with the current system? I mean 4 ability slots which take up much needed space for your warframe. You can really only use 6 (vs 8 on weapons) slots to customize your warframe at which I can pretty much guess alot of players have traded polarities to try to balance their warframe by taking out a ability. This shouldn't happen.

 

No one is forced to use a accessory. That is the players choice. No dynamic forces anyone to choose it as it is now. Even if there were stats on them, that would be the players decision. Those stats can be interchangeable between sets or let the player choose a boost as replacement. I don't see your argument here. 

I was bringing up the same argument as was used against the stat helmets, so because you cant get it let me show you a simple example.

Take Vaubans stat helmets.

You have Gambit and Esprit.

Gambit provides +10% stamnia max, -10% duration.

Esprit provides +10% energy max, -10% shield max.

Now, you can tell from the stats that Esprit is *much* better than the Gambit helmet.

But say you hate how Esprit looks and prefer Gambit.  You can choose one of two things:

1) Use the helmet you hate but that provides the only good stats.

2) Use the helmet you like but get horrible stats in return that worsens your build.

In all fairness they are given a choice, but in order to avoid gimping their build they *cant* choose the helmet they like.  So in essence they are forced to use the Esprit helmet.

Without stats on those helmets they can now make a fair choice of the helmet they like without getting stats that are detrimental to Vaubans builds.

And if you dont like how either of those helmets look it becomes: "Stay with the helmet you like but give up on 10% energy max and therefor be unable to ever obtain a build as good as the person who is using the helmet"

The same thing would happen with statted accessories.

Its either: "Choose the one you like and get horrible stats, or choose the one you hate but has good stats".

If you choose the first option you are gimping your frame and your build.

If you choose the second option you are getting a good build but you hate how you look.

And if you dont like any of the accessories then you are just never going to achieve a build as good as the people who use them.

As an example say one armor set provides +10% efficiency, the other provides +10% armor.

You play a Nyx.  Now, tell me which of those choices are actually valid?

+10% armor is useless, as Nyx only has 15.

+10% efficiency is so much better that its not even worth considering the other one.

So the Nyx is pretty much forced into the one valid armor choice.  Whether the player likes how it looks on Nyx or whether the player likes any of the armor at all.

Thats how it would force people to use them.

It would not be "Use the cosmetics you like" it would be "Use the cosmetics with the good stats".

There were plenty of people who hated how the stat helmets looked, but pretty much had to use them anyways because of the stats that they offered.

And we really shouldn't be trying to go back to that.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I was bringing up the same argument as was used against the stat helmets.

There were plenty of people who hated how the stat helmets looked, but pretty much had to use them anyways because of the stats that they offered.

And we really shouldn't be trying to go back to that.

I already know the cosmetic issue that it "seemed" to present, but it would rather "seem" the community is torn over what looks "pretty" and not being able to use "armor" as armor is clearly give you a boost if need be. See my last post, I clearly stated a resolution to the problem here. You have already been addressed. This is why I don't see your argument. It has already been resolved.

 

My reply:

 

 

 Those stats can be interchangeable between sets or let the player choose a boost as replacement. I don't see your argument here. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by BloodArmoredApostle

[RedDirtTrooper]

My reply:

But that type of customization doesn't really need to be attached to accessories at all. Some form of stat customization with a positive and negative factor like the old helmet stats would be cool, but if it's interchangeable why add an extra layer of complexity by tying it to cosmetics at all? It could just be a special customization slot on the warframe upgrade screen(like auras) with a set of zero cost mods with a lot less twisting to make it fit.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

But that type of customization doesn't really need to be attached to accessories at all. Some form of stat customization with a positive and negative factor like the old helmet stats would be cool, but if it's interchangeable why add an extra layer of complexity by tying it to cosmetics at all? It could just be a special customization slot on the warframe upgrade screen(like auras) with a set of zero cost mods with a lot less twisting to make it fit.

Even with the stat helmets removed from the system and tradable with a BP that can make the helmets statless. It doesn't satisfy the community at all. This is a never ending loop that won't end with the "Everything being Fair" bit. This issue that comes up regularly never seems to have a end course. There is always something that can't be done (by whatever nickpick) fashion and turned into another subject. 

 

Hence, I don't understand why the very thing the stat helmet disagreeing people don't realize you won't get everything. 

 

PS. This is a never ending loop you are entering here.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I still don't understand how stats on armors is a problem in this game.

 

•This isn't a PvP game. You're never forced to fight other players. I rarely see anyone in game wanting to do PvP, aside from clan mates who just want to goof around.

 

•Others players having +10% Stamina doesn't affect you in any significant way. It can only help you since they're on your team.

 

•How much progress other players pay for doesn't affect you in any significant way (it actually helps you if you have a rich guy in your clan building and funding and rushing everything)

 

Some people are in that odd min/maxer crowd, who will not allow any possible stat change to escape their grasp on their trek towards pristine perfection.

 

Adding stats on cosmetic items forces players of that type to use cosmetics that they may not like, just to gain statistical advancement.  Personally, though I dig the art style used with all of the armors, I honestly think that none of any of the chest armors look even slightly right on any warframe at all.  Some shoulders look good on some frames, but even then there are frames that look wholly out of place donning any part of any existing armor set.

 

It bothers those of us in this crowd because having cosmetic attachments with stats totally overrides any chance of them being cosmetic.  In our eyes, all they are is more statistical gain to pile on, which hamper the artistic design we may enjoy.

 

Long story short, I hate this idea with every fiber of my being and hope its never implemented.  Atop that, as an avid user and owner of basically every stat helm (I'm only missing one of Nyx's), I truly wish DE would've just said "No helmet stats for anyone." and removed them all outright and been done with it rather than choosing the route they've chosen.

 

If you want more stats for interesting character customization, ask for that.  Tying stats to cosmetics has never made sense in any game.